Kelei Routines/Advice

[buggsfuddy]

Question about progressive overload on these routines:


Lets say for an exercise I get 11, 5, 5, 4..... 3 reps

Assuming I maintain the same length of rest periods - let's say 70 seconds (I bring a timer to the gym)

Next time im at the gym should I:
shoot to get 12 reps on the first set even if I dont get 5 reps on all my other sets
or should I not advance the first set (maintain at 11) untill all other sets are 5 reps (eg. 11, 5, 5..... 5 reps)

I'm doing the PPL routine

Thanks brahs

The answer is to not time your rest periods. Always try your best on the first set, that's the one we're trying to increase weight/reps on. Then just rest as long as you need until you get anywhere from 3-5 reps on your following r/p sets. For example, I rest longer between my later r/p sets than I do on the ones right after the initial full set.

[standalj]

Question about progressive overload on these routines:


Lets say for an exercise I get 11, 5, 5, 4..... 3 reps

Assuming I maintain the same length of rest periods - let's say 70 seconds (I bring a timer to the gym)

Next time im at the gym should I:
shoot to get 12 reps on the first set even if I dont get 5 reps on all my other sets
or should I not advance the first set (maintain at 11) untill all other sets are 5 reps (eg. 11, 5, 5..... 5 reps)

I'm doing the PPL routine

Thanks brahs

The reps you do in your first set are independent of what you can do in your subsequent sets. If you have enough strength to do 12 reps in the first set then that's what you do. If you can manage 13 you do thirteen. Once you hit 12 you are ready for more weight (general rule). In subsequent sets the goal is 3-5. If you cannot do at least 3 reps in any subsequent set you aren't resting enough. If you can do over 5 reps in any subsequent set you are resting too much. Make sense?

[Effrum]

I'm so in. Excited to see what this R/P is all about. Coming off a cut, so will start out at intermediate once I'm at maintenance for a few weeks (prob right after labor day). Any suggestions on what exercises you guys are doing in your splits that works? It looks like most are doing a A/B split, 6 times a week. Curious for suggestions (I'm leaning towards an upper/lower split).

I do an Upper/Lower split 6 days a week using the intermediate exercise list from the OP. The only change I've made is I still do pull-ups. So I have 8 exercises at 40 reps for Upper, and 6 exercises at 40 reps for Lower.

[standalj]

On a cut, how much weight do you guys think I'd have to lose to go from 11% BF to 10%? If it matters, starting weight is 166.

I know most would recommend recomping, and I would to others, but I am too impatient and want these stubborn fat areas gone ASAP.

[xxx_jfb_xxx]

On a cut, how much weight do you guys think I'd have to lose to go from 11% BF to 10%? If it matters, starting weight is 166.

I know most would recommend recomping, and I would to others, but I am too impatient and want these stubborn fat areas gone ASAP.

About 1.5 lbs if you lost all fat.

[khorassn]

I do an Upper/Lower split 6 days a week using the intermediate exercise list from the OP. The only change I've made is I still do pull-ups. So I have 8 exercises at 40 reps for Upper, and 6 exercises at 40 reps for Lower.

Sounds like something I can get behind. Will report back once I start (I'm eager so it will probably be next week as I start to eat at maintenance)

[komapOB]

Instead of deloading I took about 5 days off. I feel a lot better and think Im ready to go back to the gym.

this time I dont want to keep messing up like last month. I would say am in between an int and beg, how fast should I be progressing in terms of strength. hiw many more reps should I be able to do a week? and whats better: raising my weight once I hit 12 reps or 14 reps? should I lower my weight a little?

Im also making a few adjustments to my upper body portion of my fullbody routine, keeping the lower body portion the same. Im working out 3 days a week (M W F) fullbody for 30 reps each exercise. Is that good or am I SUPPOSED TO overreach? Going to regularly deload every 3-4 weeks. This is what my upper body portion is going to look like:

Wide grip Bench
Reverse Grip Bent-over Row
Skullcrushers
Side Lateral Raises
Standing BB Curl
Close grip shrugs? (maybe)

I would appreciate any critique or additional advice towards my program.

[cinemod]

i cant do bb bench so im tying db bench. it feels better but still not 100% on my shoulder and its a pain in the ass to lift them up into position all the time. is the chest press machine a bad substitute to db bench press? will i miss alot ? ill be able to lift more, just not as many stabilizers worked

[ThatOneLurker]

i cant do bb bench so im tying db bench. it feels better but still not 100% on my shoulder and its a pain in the ass to lift them up into position all the time. is the chest press machine a bad substitute to db bench press? will i miss alot ? ill be able to lift more, just not as many stabilizers worked

It's fine. Find an exercise that doesn't bother your shoulders.

Begin daily pec and lat stretches and external rotations help as well.

[SXElifter]

i cant do bb bench so im tying db bench. it feels better but still not 100% on my shoulder and its a pain in the ass to lift them up into position all the time. is the chest press machine a bad substitute to db bench press? will i miss alot ? ill be able to lift more, just not as many stabilizers worked

To add on to what Lurker said, don't fall into that "functional strength" crap. When bodybuilding is the purpose, machines are just fine.

[Effrum]

this time I dont want to keep messing up like last month. I would say am in between an int and beg, how fast should I be progressing in terms of strength. hiw many more reps should I be able to do a week? and whats better: raising my weight once I hit 12 reps or 14 reps? should I lower my weight a little?

Im also making a few adjustments to my upper body portion of my fullbody routine, keeping the lower body portion the same. Im working out 3 days a week (M W F) fullbody for 30 reps each exercise. Is that good or am I SUPPOSED TO overreach? Going to regularly deload every 3-4 weeks. This is what my upper body portion is going to look like:

Wide grip Bench
Reverse Grip Bent-over Row
Skullcrushers
Side Lateral Raises
Standing BB Curl
Close grip shrugs? (maybe)

I would appreciate any critique or additional advice towards my program.

It's impossible to say "you should be gaining X a week" because everyone advances differently and everyone has different circumstances (# of days in the gym, etc). As long as in ~2 months you can look back and see that your lifts have gone up, that's all that matters.

On 95% of exercises, raise your weight when you can do 12 reps. You may notice that going up in weight on some exercises is difficult (for example, going from 20 to 25 in side laterals). In those cases I like to go until I can do 15 reps, then I go up in weight.

Ideally you'd never lower your weight (unless you're recovering from an injury). But I have lowered my weight on various exercises a few times to clean up my form and work my way back up. I feel like it helps for me personally, but I don't think it's necessary unless you feel like your form is getting sloppy.

Going 3 times a week is fine, going more is fine if you feel like you can handle it. Just go by what works for you.

I'm assuming based on the choice of rows and skullcrushers that you don't have access to the equipment Kelei suggested (seated rows and pressdowns). Either way your exercise selection for beginner upper body is fine

[cinemod]

To add on to what Lurker said, don't fall into that "functional strength" crap. When bodybuilding is the purpose, machines are just fine.

It's fine. Find an exercise that doesn't bother your shoulders.

Begin daily pec and lat stretches and external rotations help as well.

ok thanks guys, both repped. i do think stretching will help, just dont know exactly what my hang up is so i just stretch everything a little lol.

[komapOB]

It's impossible to say "you should be gaining X a week" because everyone advances differently and everyone has different circumstances (# of days in the gym, etc). As long as in ~2 months you can look back and see that your lifts have gone up, that's all that matters.

On 95% of exercises, raise your weight when you can do 12 reps. You may notice that going up in weight on some exercises is difficult (for example, going from 20 to 25 in side laterals). In those cases I like to go until I can do 15 reps, then I go up in weight.

Ideally you'd never lower your weight (unless you're recovering from an injury). But I have lowered my weight on various exercises a few times to clean up my form and work my way back up. I feel like it helps for me personally, but I don't think it's necessary unless you feel like your form is getting sloppy.

Going 3 times a week is fine, going more is fine if you feel like you can handle it. Just go by what works for you.

I'm assuming based on the choice of rows and skullcrushers that you don't have access to the equipment Kelei suggested (seated rows and pressdowns). Either way your exercise selection for beginner upper body is fine

Yeah, I was limited in my exercises because I only have a barbell and dumbbell handles. I guess I'll just see how I do on it

[davo26]

anybody else not feeling the love for dumbell flyes? they just dont feel like they do anything for me. im lifting heavy enough to only do 9 reps first set, but all i feel is the stretch in my shoulders at the bottom part of the rom. i dont go fully to 90 degrees (arms upright) as once ive got past 50ish it gets easier, so i probably go to around 70 degrees.

is this an exercise where you only really benefit with cables so you get constant strain? im sure it shouldnt be, as theyre always recommended, but i just dont feel anything in my chest during or afterwards.

[xxx_jfb_xxx]

Anyone else's strength sky rocketing but it seems like their muscles are breaking down too much? My body weight has stayed the same, my lifts are all going up crazy in weight but I don't feel like I'm getting hypertrophy benefits. Could I be over training?

I'm going to use bench press as an example because it's nuts. In 5 weeks I've gone from 170 lbs for 10 reps to 195 lbs for 10 reps. That's 5 lbs per week! So in strength terms, I'm definitely going up. Also, my front squat started at 155 lbs for 10 reps and today I did 185 lbs for 10 reps... just to name a couple exercises.

anybody else not feeling the love for dumbell flyes? they just dont feel like they do anything for me. im lifting heavy enough to only do 9 reps first set, but all i feel is the stretch in my shoulders at the bottom part of the rom. i dont go fully to 90 degrees (arms upright) as once ive got past 50ish it gets easier, so i probably go to around 70 degrees.

is this an exercise where you only really benefit with cables so you get constant strain? im sure it shouldnt be, as theyre always recommended, but i just dont feel anything in my chest during or afterwards.

I'm with you. I just dropped them this last workout and added in the chest press machine. You could always try close grip flat barbell presses? I've thought of going that route.

[standalj]

anybody else not feeling the love for dumbell flyes? they just dont feel like they do anything for me. im lifting heavy enough to only do 9 reps first set, but all i feel is the stretch in my shoulders at the bottom part of the rom. i dont go fully to 90 degrees (arms upright) as once ive got past 50ish it gets easier, so i probably go to around 70 degrees.

is this an exercise where you only really benefit with cables so you get constant strain? im sure it shouldnt be, as theyre always recommended, but i just dont feel anything in my chest during or afterwards.

I initially did flyes with dumbbells, felt a decent chest workout, but have since moved to doing them on a machine. I feel more strain throughout the ROM on the machine. I've been curious about using cable.

[standalj]

Anyone else's strength sky rocketing but it seems like their muscles are breaking down too much? My body weight has stayed the same, my lifts are all going up crazy in weight but I don't feel like I'm getting hypertrophy benefits. Could I be over training?

I'm going to use bench press as an example because it's nuts. In 5 weeks I've gone from 170 lbs for 10 reps to 195 lbs for 10 reps. That's 5 lbs per week! So in strength terms, I'm definitely going up. Also, my front squat started at 155 lbs for 10 reps and today I did 185 lbs for 10 reps... just to name a couple exercises.

I have made some nice gains as well in the past 2 months. I don't think I've gained mass, but am definitely more toned. In terms of hypertrophy, I think it leads back to protein synthesis and the fact protein turnover in muscles only occurs every 180 days. Lots of articles and conflicting opinions on how quickly muscle mass could be built; the general consensus seems to be 1 pound per month.

[daghetto]

If i want to do leg day with the standard 3 sets of 8-12 for all excercises is that fine? its only because i am used to that methodology for legs and rather keep it that day cause i like the progression. but i want to use rest pause for push and pull day and do 40 reps.( i am referring of course to the 3 day split for advanced)

[klaximilian]

anybody else not feeling the love for dumbell flyes? they just dont feel like they do anything for me. im lifting heavy enough to only do 9 reps first set, but all i feel is the stretch in my shoulders at the bottom part of the rom. i dont go fully to 90 degrees (arms upright) as once ive got past 50ish it gets easier, so i probably go to around 70 degrees.

is this an exercise where you only really benefit with cables so you get constant strain? im sure it shouldnt be, as theyre always recommended, but i just dont feel anything in my chest during or afterwards.

Just replaced them myself with the 15˚ bench press again. Flat Bench + Incline Bench on my upcoming bulk @ 50 reps each. Oh the pain.

[MichielN]

I have made some nice gains as well in the past 2 months. I don't think I've gained mass, but am definitely more toned. In terms of hypertrophy, I think it leads back to protein synthesis and the fact protein turnover in muscles only occurs every 180 days. Lots of articles and conflicting opinions on how quickly muscle mass could be built; the general consensus seems to be 1 pound per month.

Protein turnover is a process that occurs 24/7. It is constantly going.

[davo26]

I'm with you. I just dropped them this last workout and added in the chest press machine. You could always try close grip flat barbell presses? I've thought of going that route.

i used to do close grip bench until kelei told me he didnt rate it.

I initially did flyes with dumbbells, felt a decent chest workout, but have since moved to doing them on a machine. I feel more strain throughout the ROM on the machine. I've been curious about using cable.

Just replaced them myself with the 15˚ bench press again. Flat Bench + Incline Bench on my upcoming bulk @ 50 reps each. Oh the pain.

i already do both flat and incline tho, so can you think of another exercise that would fit into my PUSH routine and give better results than flys?

at present i do, flat bench, tricep dips, 15 degree incline bench, flys, rope pushdowns, lat raise.

so im happy enough with my tricep workout, id just like to feel ive destroyed my chest tho, and not feeling anything from flys.

thanks

[64509chvl]

Davo...I finally made the connection with flyes when kept the weight down a bit, but absolutely squeeze the hell out of my chest & keep the movement very slow. Feels like my chest is gonna pop, but I only get this feeling if I'm squeezing all the way up so my arms are straight up while squeezing very hard & never letting up. Try it out

[dojsygo]

anybody else not feeling the love for dumbell flyes? they just dont feel like they do anything for me. im lifting heavy enough to only do 9 reps first set, but all i feel is the stretch in my shoulders at the bottom part of the rom. i dont go fully to 90 degrees (arms upright) as once ive got past 50ish it gets easier, so i probably go to around 70 degrees.

is this an exercise where you only really benefit with cables so you get constant strain? im sure it shouldnt be, as theyre always recommended, but i just dont feel anything in my chest during or afterwards.

Also been struggling with dumbbell-flyes but lately ive gotten my form right and this exercise stress my chest a lot, it feels like its going to explode afterwards.
I do my flyes with almost straight arms (little bent) and only 2/3 of the rom like Kelei suggest. I also do the eccentric part of the rep very slow and controlled, with a little stop (1 sec) at the bottom.

[standalj]

Protein turnover is a process that occurs 24/7. It is constantly going.

Protein turnover occurs at different rates throughout our body:

Enzymes - ~7-10 minutes
Liver and plasma - ~10 days
Hemoglobin - ~ 120 days
Muscles - ~180 days

Muscles = increased mass

[standalj]

Just replaced them myself with the 15˚ bench press again. Flat Bench + Incline Bench on my upcoming bulk @ 50 reps each. Oh the pain.

50? How many days per week? Are you doing reverse flyes as well?

[klaximilian]

i used to do close grip bench until kelei told me he didnt rate it.




i already do both flat and incline tho, so can you think of another exercise that would fit into my PUSH routine and give better results than flys?

at present i do, flat bench, tricep dips, 15 degree incline bench, flys, rope pushdowns, lat raise.

so im happy enough with my tricep workout, id just like to feel ive destroyed my chest tho, and not feeling anything from flys.

thanks

Chest Dips or Cable Crossovers.

[klaximilian]

50? How many days per week? Are you doing reverse flyes as well?

Monday - Push
Tuesday - Off
Wednesday - Pull
Thursday - Off
Friday - Legs
Saturday - Push/Pull
Sunday - Legs/Core

Indeed, reverse flies are in this routine. Shoulders/Chest/Legs are the emphasis so I went a little heavy there.

[standalj]

Monday - Push
Tuesday - Off
Wednesday - Pull
Thursday - Off
Friday - Legs
Saturday - Push/Pull
Sunday - Legs/Core

Indeed, reverse flies are in this routine. Shoulders/Chest/Legs are the emphasis so I went a little heavy there.

Much like the original routine then. Weren't you doing 30 reps on a cut? I am doing 35 (3 times a week) on a cut and it is pretty darn hard. I ended up taking yesterday off because I was dragging ass all day long.

[klaximilian]

Much like the original routine then. Weren't you doing 30 reps on a cut? I am doing 35 (3 times a week) on a cut and it is pretty darn hard. I ended up taking yesterday off because I was dragging ass all day long.

Yes, 30-40 on a good day. I was at 20 near the end of my cut with little energy to show for.

I'm mixing it up a bit though for my bulk. I'm sticking with straight sets on compounds and RP on isolation movements.

[standalj]

Yes, 30-40 on a good day. I was at 20 near the end of my cut with little energy to show for.

I'm mixing it up a bit though for my bulk. I'm sticking with straight sets on compounds and RP on isolation movements.

Nice! How many calories did you add for bulk? I am on a 400 calorie cut...ouch.