Rippetoe/Starting Strength Questions Answered Here

[grv575]

Squatting 220-225-230 this week is kicking my ass.

I think Henry Rollins said it best with the 200 pounds is always 200 pounds quote.

[Duke309]

This has probably been covered before, but I've been doing Madcows version of Bill Starrs 5x5 Intermediate since last August and I have made great progress. Though now my bench press, standing press, and row have all stalled for 2nd or 3rd time each. I'm wondering if it would be a good idea to change back to the starting strength 3 sets across, 5 reps style.

Also thinking about alternating bench and press like on the starting strength program, right now its bench monday and friday and press on wednesday, and change that to alternating.

I'm going to be keeping my squat and deadlift the same as I am doing now because my squat is still doing great and I just reset deadlift for the first time last week.

Heres a breakdown of what I do now.
Mon: Squat, Bench, Row, Ghetto GHR, Abs
Wed: Squat, Deadlift, Press, Chins, light Abs
Fri: Squat, Bench, Row, Ghetto GHR, Dips, Curls, Tri Extensions

And just a breakdown of the weight I'm using, I just squatted 240x5, before reset I was Deadlifting 315x5, Benching 190x5, Pressing 120x5, Rowing 150x5.

Oh and I have a copy of starting strength v2 and pratical programming. Just got practical programming though and I'm only halfway through it.

[sw1rmd85]

This has probably been covered before, but I've been doing Madcows version of Bill Starrs 5x5 Intermediate since last August and I have made great progress. Though now my bench press, standing press, and row have all stalled for 2nd or 3rd time each. I'm wondering if it would be a good idea to change back to the starting strength 3 sets across, 5 reps style.

Also thinking about alternating bench and press like on the starting strength program, right now its bench monday and friday and press on wednesday, and change that to alternating.

I'm going to be keeping my squat and deadlift the same as I am doing now because my squat is still doing great and I just reset deadlift for the first time last week.

Heres a breakdown of what I do now.
Mon: Squat, Bench, Row, Ghetto GHR, Abs
Wed: Squat, Deadlift, Press, Chins, light Abs
Fri: Squat, Bench, Row, Ghetto GHR, Dips, Curls, Tri Extensions

And just a breakdown of the weight I'm using, I just squatted 240x5, before reset I was Deadlifting 315x5, Benching 190x5, Pressing 120x5, Rowing 150x5.

Oh and I have a copy of starting strength v2 and pratical programming. Just got practical programming though and I'm only halfway through it.

did you even do SS prior to 5x5... to be on an INTERMEDIATE program since august and only squatting 245 for a single, heavy set of five immediately makes me think you are doing something wrong: possibly diet or (just my hunch) you did 5x5 before exhausting all possible gains on a beginner program.

And if you have in fact done everything right to this point, i don't understand why you would think going back to SS would be beneficial to you. I really think you need to read/reread SS and Madcow's site.

[outbreak]

This has probably been covered before, but I've been doing Madcows version of Bill Starrs 5x5 Intermediate since last August and I have made great progress. Though now my bench press, standing press, and row have all stalled for 2nd or 3rd time each. I'm wondering if it would be a good idea to change back to the starting strength 3 sets across, 5 reps style.

Also thinking about alternating bench and press like on the starting strength program, right now its bench monday and friday and press on wednesday, and change that to alternating.

I'm going to be keeping my squat and deadlift the same as I am doing now because my squat is still doing great and I just reset deadlift for the first time last week.

Heres a breakdown of what I do now.
Mon: Squat, Bench, Row, Ghetto GHR, Abs
Wed: Squat, Deadlift, Press, Chins, light Abs
Fri: Squat, Bench, Row, Ghetto GHR, Dips, Curls, Tri Extensions

And just a breakdown of the weight I'm using, I just squatted 240x5, before reset I was Deadlifting 315x5, Benching 190x5, Pressing 120x5, Rowing 150x5.

Oh and I have a copy of starting strength v2 and pratical programming. Just got practical programming though and I'm only halfway through it.

Reset them again and maybe increase calories, if not maybe try 4x8 for those stalled lifts.

[outbreak]

did you even do SS prior to 5x5... to be on an INTERMEDIATE program since august and only squatting 245 for a single, heavy set of five immediately makes me think you are doing something wrong: possibly diet or (just my hunch) you did 5x5 before exhausting all possible gains on a beginner program.

And if you have in fact done everything right to this point, i don't understand why you would think going back to SS would be beneficial to you. I really think you need to read/reread SS and Madcow's site.

that to...

[sw1rmd85]

Reset them again and maybe increase calories

That's usually the way to fix whatever, but i can't see how Duke has done a beginner program, then an intermediate program since August and has stalled a couple time with those numbers; it just doesn't add up. Diet, or something, must be wrong. Moreover, if he STARTED on Madcow's 5x5, stalling as many times as he did in 5 months pretty much guarantees something other than a typical stall.

[user654415165]

That's usually the way to fix whatever, but i can't see how Duke has done a beginner program, then an intermediate program since August and has stalled a couple time with those numbers; it just doesn't add up. Diet, or something, must be wrong. Moreover, if he STARTED on Madcow's 5x5, stalling as many times as he did in 5 months pretty much guarantees something other than a typical stall.

Those stats arent that bad. On the standardized strength chart he would be well into the intermediate category. I stopped Rippetoes because of lack of gains at 255 squat, 295 deadlift, and I'm way heavier then him. I just kept building up and resetting with no progress made.

[sw1rmd85]

Those stats arent that bad. On the standardized strength chart he would be well into the intermediate category. I stopped Rippetoes because of lack of gains at 255 squat, 295 deadlift, and I'm way heavier then him. I just kept building up and resetting with no progress made.

rip always says how he gets his lifters to a 300 pound squat for reps which blows the chart out of the water for someone not on an intermediate program yet.

this is one end of the spectrum: "We've had young guys put 350 on their deadlift, 150 on their bench, and 75 on their press. But most will not do the program, so it doesn't happen often."

and i bet you that the chart are general values, a nice guideline, notwithstanding age. i wouldn't be surprised, with the novice routine carried out properly, for the majority of regular sized, healthy males where age isn't a factor, to finish SS somewhere in between those guidelines and that example.

Another quote: "Not unless you have unusually poor genetics. Getting stalled at 200 x 5 for a 165lb lifter is not common"

Duke is both bigger and apparently farther along -- on an intermediate program for 5 months with a few stalls, already, under his belt. You do the math.

And one more: "And unless you weigh about 125, you shouldn't be ready to do an intermediate program anyway, since your novice progression should have taken you way past a 205 x 5 if it was done correctly."

With three stalls in 5 months after a novice program at 175, i can't imagine he went "way past" 205x5 at any point. He is doing something wrong.

And i bet you a good amount of the kids doing SS here don't milk it for all its worth. I know knowles did, stracin, and a few others; all of whom were far into the intermediate column of that chart while still on SS.

[SeanJohn1802]

How effective would doing this program 2-days a week be?

[sw1rmd85]

How effective would doing this program 2-days a week be?

effective enough, but not as much as 3

[SeanJohn1802]

effective enough, but not as much as 3

k thanks, right now with my schedule and money situation 2 is ideal but as soon as it gets straight I will move up to 3

also would I be better to try to find another routine or stick with this?

[sw1rmd85]

k thanks, right now with my schedule and money situation 2 is ideal but as soon as it gets straight I will move up to 3

also would I be better to try to find another routine or stick with this?

if you are a novice, i totally recommend this, and with only 2 days per week to work with, full body would be the way to go.

[Duke309]

That's usually the way to fix whatever, but i can't see how Duke has done a beginner program, then an intermediate program since August and has stalled a couple time with those numbers; it just doesn't add up. Diet, or something, must be wrong. Moreover, if he STARTED on Madcow's 5x5, stalling as many times as he did in 5 months pretty much guarantees something other than a typical stall.

I did do the basic SS routine for about 5 months while teaching myself the lifts, my flexibility was so god awful that squats took a real long time to get good form. I will also admit that my diet could have been a lot better and progressed faster. It's also pretty challenging to teach yourself exercises like this when you are lucky to see someone get close to parallel on a squat at your gym.

I went from 160 pounds in august to 180 or so by december, I'm not looking to add a ton more mass right now, maybe even loss a little bit of fat.

Also I've had to be careful with my left arm, I broke it a couple years ago and now have a 8inch bar and 9 screws. It used to give me trouble, but since adding a good deal of muscle its been okay.

I'm totally cool with going back on the novice SS routine, if that would mean more progress. I will admit I jumped to the intermediate too soon. Started it before I actually got copies of SS or PP and just continued on.

[Pathogen]

Hey gang.

Might it be time for me to switch to front squats at the mid-week workout? I pushed 233 lbs at my last workout, and as I wrote in my journal, "pushing this weight has me so fatigued during the set that I feel like it's going to knock me out." Is 233 lbs too soon to be thinking about front squats?

[sirr0bin]

Hey gang.

Might it be time for me to switch to front squats at the mid-week workout? I pushed 233 lbs at my last workout, and as I wrote in my journal, "pushing this weight has me so fatigued during the set that I feel like it's going to knock me out." Is 233 lbs too soon to be thinking about front squats?

If 233 is tiring you out enough that it's effecting your next workout, switching to front squats would probably be a good idea.

[bluedot]

At the risk of getting too technical about it here, you really should be pushing through your mid foot. That is where Rip says the weight should be vertically aligned.

My interpretaion is that squatting through your heels is advice given commonly, and not inappropriately, to beginners because leaning forward and pushing through the toes is such a common problem. Whereas almost no one would be naturally inclinced to pick their toes up off the floor and squat only from the heels.

Rip talks about literally squatting with your toes off the ground, on your heels (with little or no weight of course) just to get the feel of not leaning on your toes. He says, "...after three or four reps this trick will have done its job and you will have SETTLED INTO THE MIDDLE OF YOUR FOOT with your knees in the correct position, not too far out over the toes. The position will feel balanced and strong..."

Again i think Bluedots advice is helpful here. Just trying to clarify because i think over-emphasizing "squatting through the heels" has caused other form problems for people, like their torso being too close to vertical, which isn't correct.

I think that you are absolutely right. I definitely gave a "cue" rather than a full explanation. Thanks for this.

[Crazy_Desi]

I have a question...
Last semester I did rippetoes for 3 months, saw some pretty damn good gains.

Squat: 85 --> 190
Bench: 75 --> 130
Deadlift: 115 --> 210
Press: 65 --> 105
Rows: 85 --> 130

Now, I quit the program because I injured my lower back deadlifting, and I injured my hip flexors squatting ATG.

Now, my leg injuries have healed for the most part, however I believe with correct form my back won't hurt when deadlifting.

I've lost a LOT of strength on squat and deadlift.. now I can squat 95, and deadlift 135. So my question is, should I redo rippetoes since I am bulking? I have perfected my diet now (last semester I cheated a lot + didn't have veggies + lean meat, only drank shakes). This semester I got a perfect diet going.

So, should I repeat rippetoes? This time around I know correct form for all the lifts, I don't cheat anymore, and I have a perfect diet.

Thanks

[sirr0bin]

So, should I repeat rippetoes? This time around I know correct form for all the lifts, I don't cheat anymore, and I have a perfect diet.

Thanks

I don't see why not! It's a great linear progression program as you found out.

[outbreak]

I did do the basic SS routine for about 5 months while teaching myself the lifts, my flexibility was so god awful that squats took a real long time to get good form. I will also admit that my diet could have been a lot better and progressed faster. It's also pretty challenging to teach yourself exercises like this when you are lucky to see someone get close to parallel on a squat at your gym.

I went from 160 pounds in august to 180 or so by december, I'm not looking to add a ton more mass right now, maybe even loss a little bit of fat.

Also I've had to be careful with my left arm, I broke it a couple years ago and now have a 8inch bar and 9 screws. It used to give me trouble, but since adding a good deal of muscle its been okay.

I'm totally cool with going back on the novice SS routine, if that would mean more progress. I will admit I jumped to the intermediate too soon. Started it before I actually got copies of SS or PP and just continued on.

Well the worst that can happen from not going back to ss is it will take longer to reach your gains. I think right now you are kind of at the cross roads of ss to a 5x5 routine. You have put 20lbs on, I think you should re-evaluate your caloric intake and reset your lifts. Do you like milk?

[saizen]

I have a question. Sorry but i have only read the FAQ not this entire thread. I am doing Rippetoe and here are my numbers

Bench 193.6lbs (converted from kg ..in japan) x5

Squat 193.6lbs x5

Deadlift 270.6lbs x5

Cleans 149.6lbs (1st two sets) 127lbs (last set, due to fatigue) x5

Military press 52.8lbs (dumbells) x5

These numbers dont look right to me but they feel right in the gym. I am struggling on my last rep with the squats(i go allllll the way down..calfs to butt). I dont get why i cant bench as much as i squat. Deads seem ok though. But i am starting to lose my grip when i do deads cause it is so heavy. Also my cleans are weird...i think it is because i'm still learning the form. Any help and advice would be great. Thx

[DieFatDie]

I'm feeling a little sore on my lower back while getting into my squats all of a sudden. Somewhat of a stiff feeling. No pain though. Is this normal? Hopefully I have not injured myself =\.

235 is no joke =O.

Where's the best place to purchase micro plates from? I def do not want to hit a plateau.

Also is it just me or do you guys find Military Presses becoming extremely difficult once you're lifting heavy... I almost had a baby today..lol

[tattoojay]

^^ about the only place ive seen fractionals lately is on ironwoody. they sell them a couple bucks cheaper on ebay. just do a search for 'fractional plate'. its a set for about 50 bucks. i asked them if they would sell singles and the guy said youre better off looking at a dicks or sports authority for single fractional plates.

edit: just ran across these lookin for somethin else. http://www.dumbbellbuddy.com/platemate/platemate.html

[bluedot]

So, should I repeat rippetoes? This time around I know correct form for all the lifts, I don't cheat anymore, and I have a perfect diet.

Thanks

Everyone is saying yes and I'm inclined to agree, but I think you should approach it with this mindset: you're going to give yourself three months on Rippetoe at minumum. If you do it right -- rest, incremental and regular load increases, food, form, etc -- and are habitually stalling at the end of three months, this is an indication that you're probably too far along to use SS effectively so you should give it up and move on.

I suspect this will not be the case, however, since I know just how far I milked it and I have seen others like knowles have mind blowing progress. The thing that has me concerned, and what I think you should be mindful of, is that you're going in thinking that it might not be right and you might be too far along. Maybe it's just me, but I find it's easier to blame everything before I blame myself so I have to be vigilent that when I think my program is failing me, it's not me failing it. The way you would know you were right for SS is if you follow the protocol closely and get the results that are predicted. If you don't go full bore you won't get that, and you won't be able to tell whether you are too advanced or whether you didn't try hard enough.

Take the first two workouts to determine your starting weights and start from there. If you're like me you'd be smart to err on the low side so you don't bite off more than you can chew out of enthusiasm to work -- and after all, a 30 lb underestimate on squat is erased in a week anyway. Then add the weights like you did last time and see if you can't set some new PRs!

[grv575]

^^ about the only place ive seen fractionals lately is on ironwoody. they sell them a couple bucks cheaper on ebay. just do a search for 'fractional plate'. its a set for about 50 bucks. i asked them if they would sell singles and the guy said youre better off looking at a dicks or sports authority for single fractional plates.

edit: just ran across these lookin for somethin else. http://www.dumbbellbuddy.com/platemate/platemate.html

I use these: http://www.newyorkbarbells.com/im-5201.html
Just pay the shipping and get as many 1.25 and 2.5's as you want (make sure to buy at least 2 - the prices are for 1, not a pair). $21 shipped for a set of 1.25s or $34 for a set of 1.25s and a set of 2.5s. I think 2.5lb increments are just about right - no complaints yet.

[Duke309]

Well the worst that can happen from not going back to ss is it will take longer to reach your gains. I think right now you are kind of at the cross roads of ss to a 5x5 routine. You have put 20lbs on, I think you should re-evaluate your caloric intake and reset your lifts. Do you like milk?

I drink a glass of milk atleast once a day, an extra one after workouts too. I'm just wondering if the slow progress I'm looking to make while "maintaining" bodyweight would be better if I went back to the SS type routine. You seem to think so and as far as I can figure, I agree with you.

I value you guys' advice or else I wouldn't be asking

[Dave76]

I have a question. Sorry but i have only read the FAQ not this entire thread. I am doing Rippetoe and here are my numbers

Bench 193.6lbs (converted from kg ..in japan) x5

Squat 193.6lbs x5

Deadlift 270.6lbs x5

Cleans 149.6lbs (1st two sets) 127lbs (last set, due to fatigue) x5

Military press 52.8lbs (dumbells) x5

These numbers dont look right to me but they feel right in the gym. I am struggling on my last rep with the squats(i go allllll the way down..calfs to butt). I dont get why i cant bench as much as i squat. Deads seem ok though. But i am starting to lose my grip when i do deads cause it is so heavy. Also my cleans are weird...i think it is because i'm still learning the form. Any help and advice would be great. Thx

Your numbers look fine to me. Your squat will eventually surpass your bench. If you're like most people, you've done a lot of benching in the past and not so much squatting. At this point, you're more advanced on the bench.

You don't have to go all the way down to calves touching hams. It's probable that you have to relax the hamstrings to get that far so you don't get the hamstring bounce out of the hole. You need to get past parallel but not all the way down.

For the deadlift, try using chalk and the alternating grip. If you're not already doing it, you'll find that the alternating grip makes a big difference.

[sw1rmd85]

I drink a glass of milk atleast once a day, an extra one after workouts too. I'm just wondering if the slow progress I'm looking to make while "maintaining" bodyweight would be better if I went back to the SS type routine. You seem to think so and as far as I can figure, I agree with you.

I value you guys' advice or else I wouldn't be asking

are you trying to maintain bodyweight or maintain a low amount of fat?

[Duke309]

are you trying to maintain bodyweight or maintain a low amount of fat?

I've put on about 20 pounds since august, but my body fat has stayed the same, about 14%. I'm currently leaning out for pretty much the first time and shooting for about 10%, I've got some lower back fat that drives me nuts. So I'm doing pretty much maintenance calories and adding some light-medium intensity cardio on the off days. Once I finally lean out I'm going to be going for a ton more strength.

[Demz]

Dave, reading the sticky a couple of the hyperlinks have expired for the videos, which I know is hard to maintain

To double check the press your referring to is the standing military press in the exercise section?

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/exer...Military+Press

Thanks

[Dave76]

Dave, reading the sticky a couple of the hyperlinks have expired for the videos, which I know is hard to maintain

To double check the press your referring to is the standing military press in the exercise section?

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/exer...Military+Press

Thanks

That's it!