My experience with IRONMASTER and why I WOULD NOT recommend them.

[irongrandpa]

Posted at the exact same time, that sale couldnt have been better timing, and the quality of the DB's is excellent.

I would love to upgrade to a set of the IG's one day though...

What did you have to pay for your set? I,ve never found any new ones for close to that price, congrats!

[Cimino36]

For you guys to drool a little...

Also, no idea how to post pics other than as an attachment on ipad

[Vermonter]

For you guys to drool a little...

Also, no idea how to post pics other than as an attachment on ipad

 you use [img] [/img] tags and the URL to the image file between them

[DamonB82]

For you guys to drool a little...

Also, no idea how to post pics other than as an attachment on ipad

What made you decide to do the rubbers instead of all pro? Those pros look nice, I should have ordered the 120s, ****eth them not matching my others, that price was nice!

[GarageIron]

For you guys to drool a little...

Also, no idea how to post pics other than as an attachment on ipad

The pro style look great.

I really don't like any of the rubber hex myself. Just not a fan of the 35mm ergo handles. I'm guessing you bought these as two sets? I missed out on the whole power systems thing. I saw it but just didn't need anything... Which is weird for me.

[Cimino36]

I didn't mind the rubber hex for the lower weights because I like them for certain exercises, and they were also about $250 cheaper to do it like this

[Skidmarx]

IMO all pros would've been better for an extra $250.

Those power systems are good db's tho. I had 60-90 for years and beat the crap out of them and the rubber held up great.

[Curbside_Quiche]

IMO the problem with the IM dumbells is that they charge a premium price for an average quality product.

I'm not suggesting that the design isn't innovative, just that the poorly finished product doesn't justify the inflated price.

Don't forget, these products are manufacured in Taiwan, where labor is extremely cheap. When you combine cheap labor with poor finished quality, it is hard to justify preminum pricing.

Obviously, the proprietors are enjoying a massive profit margin, further enhanced by their passing of refinishing costs for defective products on to dissatisfied consumers.

There is a valid reason for their price - they are very hard to make!

If there was a massive profit margin someone would already have made a copy. It happens to all products these days. Especially outside of the US where designs are protected by US patents.

I know of one Chinese factory who had a crack and wound up dumping over $20k trying.

[Curbside_Quiche]

I'd like to share with you guys the experience I had with Ironmaster and the quick-lock dumbbells with 120lb add on kit I ordered to start my home gym.

In June when I started planning and building for my gym, I gave myself a 3500 budget to work with. I looked at the Ironmasters, Powerblocks, and spin lock dumbbells in an effort to save space and money. As much as I wanted to grab a nice set of pro style or rubber dumbbells, I couldn't justify the price. I had previously used the Powerblock dumbbells which I thought were OK, so based on reviews I bought the Ironmasters with the 120lb add on kit.

UPON RECEIVING IRONMASTERS

My first impression of these dumbbells was about a 7.5/10. I loved that they felt like a real dumbbell. That was the one advantage over any other adjustable style dumbbell. I also liked that the screws were flat so if I had to boost them up to myself for presses they wouldn't bother my knees or the dumbbell. My big issues with them were the time it takes to change (much slower than the powerblocks) and how the plates looked refurbished and repaired multiple times. Many of the plates were uneven and looked like they had chipped and been painted over. One of the handles also had rust on it, but it wasn't a big deal to me. I used the dumbbell for about a week and noticed that the screws didn't set in the same way as they did when I first got them, it took at least a full turn to get them to lock in securely. For this reason I decided I had had enough, I ordered pro style and rubber dumbbells 10-100 because of a killer deal I got online, and sent the Ironmasters back immediately after.

IRONMASTER CUSTOMER SERVICE

When I called Ironmaster to have the Fedex return labels sent to me, the guy I talked to on the phone, Scott, was very helpful. They said there would be no issue with the return because of the issues I had and that I should have my full refund (minus $20 for original packaging), as soon as they were received. I went ahead and paid the $50 to have fedex repackage all of the products as the return label instructed me to do. I also brought an entire roll of my own bubblewrap to make sure the dumbbells were extra secure. After not hearing from IM 3 days after my package was received I decided to give them a call. I was told I would have my full refund by the end of the next business day. Sure enough, I got an email that I would be getting my refund the next day around 4pm. The email was from Scott and said that I would be refunded $687.50 out of the $872 I had originally paid. Their reasons for deductions were the following:
-$20 for original packaging
-$30 for the refinishing of weight plates
-$75 for the 4 add on screws which were damaged and deemed unusable (the reason I sent them back in the first place, albeit they still worked)
-$59.50 for cosmetic damage to the dumbbell stand which FEDEX PACKAGE ACCORDING TO THEIR SHIPPING INSTRUCTIONS.

Despite multiple emails and phone calls, IM has no answer, no photo verification of all of this damage, and 5 days after receiving my package had not sent my refund. Thank god for my bank handling the dispute wonderfully and getting me a full refund for the product.

All in all, unless you plan on loving and cherishing your IM dumbbells forever and ever, DO NOT GET THEM.

Matt the owner of Ironmaster has been away on vacation with his family. I will let him know that you weren't happy and see what he can do for you.

[dhartnet]

No offense, but I was never a fan of those things. The cost for a set of 120 lb. dumbbells is insane. (Yes they are interchangeable, but they still weigh 120 lbs max).
I only use a few sized dumbbells for everything. (Example - 100's for benching, 50's for curls, etc). Im not going to use 10's, 20's, 30's and so on.

I built my bells with random plates in my gym from years of buying weight sets. Again, no offense, nothing against those, just trying to give people food for thought if they are thinking about buying those.
Over priced gimmicks...

[Cimino36]

Matt the owner of Ironmaster has been away on vacation with his family. I will let him know that you weren't happy and see what he can do for you.

At this point I don't think it is too big of a deal because the bank took care of it. But thanks

[matrix563]

At this point I don't think it is too big of a deal because the bank took care of it. But thanks

some will place the amount owed even though they shouldn't into collections, despite it being a charge back. cover your bases man

[DasPhilosopher]

Poor paint jobs, chips in the plates, two of them that were uneven and wouldn't fit together correctly. I'm just overall disappointed that knowing a customer is unhappy they would make the refund process so difficult.

that really gay.

[Ironmaster_Man]

I'm sorry to hear about the disappointment in your experience with Ironmaster and for the lapse in communication. I wish I would have been here to answer the concerns sooner and apologize for the delay.

We do allow for a 30 day return for satisfaction reasons, but we do have some basic conditions that need to be met. The packaging for shipping is very important with our gear, especially the dumbbells. Each part is packaged so that no parts can bang into each other and cause dings of scratches during transit. Our return policy is that the original packaging is needed to send items back for a refund. It is important to use all the original packaging materials including the inside plastic and separators so that we get the products back in reasonable condition. If items come back to us with inadequate packing and there is damage caused by this, then our policy also states we may have to charge a for replacements or refurbishing. Of course after using the dumbbells for a while there may be some signs of use and we expect that. In this case, the customer did not have the original packaging, however we still approved the return with the conditions that good alternate packaging was used and that there was full part separation like the original packing, minus a small fee. The condition of many of the parts when we received the return was not good. The FedEx store packaging job was poorly done and I would suggest requesting a refund from them for that service. The locking screws for the add on kit were not individually wrapped and all of them shifted around and had significant dings in the metal since they hit each other repeatedly during shipping back, damaging the threads and making them unusable. Some of the dumbbell stand panels were bent and gouged for similar reasons. The dumbbell weight plates were all simply stacked in boxes without any materials used to separate them. We now have photographed the damages for our records and can provide them if requested. The net result, is that due to inadequate packing, we have to scrap quite a few components and repaint all the plates so unfortunately had to apply a deduct to the refund.

The partial refund transaction was attempted, but did not go through yet because the credit card used to make the purchase had expired by the time we attempted to process the refund and we are not allowed to refund to an expired card. We have been working with the credit card processor on how to deal with this for a few business days now.

The return packing instructions were given verbally and it could be that there was a misunderstanding of the requirements and of our policy. Although we technically followed our return policies, we will eat all the costs involved since there is obviously a dispute in how this went and will not contest the chargeback. We will sort things out with the credit card processor. Please feel free to contact me if I can provide any additional information. Matt Dawson, 800-533-3339 x101

[daniel327]

There is a valid reason for their price - they are very hard to make!

If there was a massive profit margin someone would already have made a copy. It happens to all products these days. Especially outside of the US where designs are protected by US patents.

I know of one Chinese factory who had a crack and wound up dumping over $20k trying.

Even if I agreed that these are difficult to make, I don't agree that it is difficult to ensure that the quality of the finish is above what it is.

For example, plates that don't nest together well are a result of inconsistencies either in the molds, or the casting process.

Given the large number of products that are precision cast (internal combustion engine block for example, which are consistent across hundreds of thousands of units), it is a nonsense to suggest that casting a consistent simple shape is a difficult process, or an unachievable goal.

Also, others have copied them. Check out the ForceUSA offering. It has all the features of an Iron Master with a slightly different shape to circumvent the patent law. If them dopes can make a product work, it ain't that hard.

[matrix563]

http://www.gymandfitness.com.au/quic...l#!prettyPhoto

neat. although it would probably get a lot more longer than a full ironmaster one.

[GarageIron]

I'm sorry to hear about the disappointment in your experience with Ironmaster and for the lapse in communication. I wish I would have been here to answer the concerns sooner and apologize for the delay.

We do allow for a 30 day return for satisfaction reasons, but we do have some basic conditions that need to be met. The packaging for shipping is very important with our gear, especially the dumbbells. Each part is packaged so that no parts can bang into each other and cause dings of scratches during transit. Our return policy is that the original packaging is needed to send items back for a refund. It is important to use all the original packaging materials including the inside plastic and separators so that we get the products back in reasonable condition. If items come back to us with inadequate packing and there is damage caused by this, then our policy also states we may have to charge a for replacements or refurbishing. Of course after using the dumbbells for a while there may be some signs of use and we expect that. In this case, the customer did not have the original packaging, however we still approved the return with the conditions that good alternate packaging was used and that there was full part separation like the original packing, minus a small fee. The condition of many of the parts when we received the return was not good. The FedEx store packaging job was poorly done and I would suggest requesting a refund from them for that service. The locking screws for the add on kit were not individually wrapped and all of them shifted around and had significant dings in the metal since they hit each other repeatedly during shipping back, damaging the threads and making them unusable. Some of the dumbbell stand panels were bent and gouged for similar reasons. The dumbbell weight plates were all simply stacked in boxes without any materials used to separate them. We now have photographed the damages for our records and can provide them if requested. The net result, is that due to inadequate packing, we have to scrap quite a few components and repaint all the plates so unfortunately had to apply a deduct to the refund.

The partial refund transaction was attempted, but did not go through yet because the credit card used to make the purchase had expired by the time we attempted to process the refund and we are not allowed to refund to an expired card. We have been working with the credit card processor on how to deal with this for a few business days now.

The return packing instructions were given verbally and it could be that there was a misunderstanding of the requirements and of our policy. Although we technically followed our return policies, we will eat all the costs involved since there is obviously a dispute in how this went and will not contest the chargeback. We will sort things out with the credit card processor. Please feel free to contact me if I can provide any additional information. Matt Dawson, 800-533-3339 x101

Matt, thank you for commenting on this this thread and shedding some light on the situation.

I do understand the return policy, but a charge for not having the original packaging should include all subsquent costs, no? If the customer is willing to absorb the packaging costs and follows your instruction to use a third party, well... I'd think that's on you unless I'm missing something.

There is also the issue of the old stock plates. Was this the case? Was he sent refurbished plates? You mentioned repainting these plates. Will these used items be sold as new again?

[daniel327]

I'm sorry to hear about the disappointment in your experience with Ironmaster and for the lapse in communication. I wish I would have been here to answer the concerns sooner and apologize for the delay.

We do allow for a 30 day return for satisfaction reasons, but we do have some basic conditions that need to be met. The packaging for shipping is very important with our gear, especially the dumbbells. Each part is packaged so that no parts can bang into each other and cause dings of scratches during transit. Our return policy is that the original packaging is needed to send items back for a refund. It is important to use all the original packaging materials including the inside plastic and separators so that we get the products back in reasonable condition. If items come back to us with inadequate packing and there is damage caused by this, then our policy also states we may have to charge a for replacements or refurbishing. Of course after using the dumbbells for a while there may be some signs of use and we expect that. In this case, the customer did not have the original packaging, however we still approved the return with the conditions that good alternate packaging was used and that there was full part separation like the original packing, minus a small fee. The condition of many of the parts when we received the return was not good. The FedEx store packaging job was poorly done and I would suggest requesting a refund from them for that service. The locking screws for the add on kit were not individually wrapped and all of them shifted around and had significant dings in the metal since they hit each other repeatedly during shipping back, damaging the threads and making them unusable. Some of the dumbbell stand panels were bent and gouged for similar reasons. The dumbbell weight plates were all simply stacked in boxes without any materials used to separate them. We now have photographed the damages for our records and can provide them if requested. The net result, is that due to inadequate packing, we have to scrap quite a few components and repaint all the plates so unfortunately had to apply a deduct to the refund.

The partial refund transaction was attempted, but did not go through yet because the credit card used to make the purchase had expired by the time we attempted to process the refund and we are not allowed to refund to an expired card. We have been working with the credit card processor on how to deal with this for a few business days now.

The return packing instructions were given verbally and it could be that there was a misunderstanding of the requirements and of our policy. Although we technically followed our return policies, we will eat all the costs involved since there is obviously a dispute in how this went and will not contest the chargeback. We will sort things out with the credit card processor. Please feel free to contact me if I can provide any additional information. Matt Dawson, 800-533-3339 x101

I agree with GI, and appreciate your reply to this thread.

Perhaps you could take the time to address the customer's stated reason for being dissatified with your product:

..... the plates looked refurbished and repaired multiple times. Many of the plates were uneven and looked like they had chipped and been painted over. One of the handles also had rust on it......

rather than attempting to appear faultless and blaming his inadequate packaging for seemingly existing damage.

[Cimino36]

I agree with GI, and appreciate your reply to this thread.

Perhaps you could take the time to address the customer's stated reason for being dissatified with your product:



rather than attempting to appear faultless and blaming his inadequate packaging for seemingly existing damage.

Thank you GI and Daniel. Repped for that one. My issue when I called was the damages that I believed there was to the equipment. If repackaging was that big of a deal to IM, you guys would have sent new packaging and charged me for that, with specific instructions on how to pack the products. Rather, you sent me return shipping labels and I followed the EXACT instructions on them as well as having the employee at FedEx package the material. If you thought I was spending more than the $40 I already did to have them repackaged you are DELUSIONAL. Replying the way you did, clearly without reading my complaint, is just showing how poor the customer service is. Shifting your own issues to the customer isn't going to have me recommending your product to ANYBODY.

[Cimino36]

Matt, thank you for commenting on this this thread and shedding some light on the situation.

I do understand the return policy, but a charge for not having the original packaging should include all subsquent costs, no? If the customer is willing to absorb the packaging costs and follows your instruction to use a third party, well... I'd think that's on you unless I'm missing something.

There is also the issue of the old stock plates. Was this the case? Was he sent refurbished plates? You mentioned repainting these plates. Will these used items be sold as new again?

You have to assume they will be sold as new, because there is nothing on their website about buying damaged/blemished/refurbished plates. If mine weren't refurbs my mind would be absolutely blown.

[rob_phill]

I might as well chime in here and say that while I generally love my ironmasters I will agree that the finish isn't great. Within a few months most of the coating has stripped off, but that isn't a huge concern to me.

My biggest issue is that certain configurations of weight don't actually work. For instance 25lb can be loaded up, but when you go to tighten it up the locking screw hits it's open point. So it's either loose, or completely open.
Of course the solution to this is that I keep a piece of rubber on hand to place between the locking screw and the plates, but on a $700 AUD set of dumbells I shouldn't need to do this.

I have always recommended and liked the ironmasters but if there are cheaper knock offs on the market I would probably be tempted to give them a go first due to the above issues.

[deadwoodgregg]

I'm sorry to hear about the disappointment in your experience with Ironmaster and for the lapse in communication. I wish I would have been here to answer the concerns sooner and apologize for the delay.

We do allow for a 30 day return for satisfaction reasons, but we do have some basic conditions that need to be met. The packaging for shipping is very important with our gear, especially the dumbbells. Each part is packaged so that no parts can bang into each other and cause dings of scratches during transit. Our return policy is that the original packaging is needed to send items back for a refund. It is important to use all the original packaging materials including the inside plastic and separators so that we get the products back in reasonable condition. If items come back to us with inadequate packing and there is damage caused by this, then our policy also states we may have to charge a for replacements or refurbishing. Of course after using the dumbbells for a while there may be some signs of use and we expect that. In this case, the customer did not have the original packaging, however we still approved the return with the conditions that good alternate packaging was used and that there was full part separation like the original packing, minus a small fee. The condition of many of the parts when we received the return was not good. The FedEx store packaging job was poorly done and I would suggest requesting a refund from them for that service. The locking screws for the add on kit were not individually wrapped and all of them shifted around and had significant dings in the metal since they hit each other repeatedly during shipping back, damaging the threads and making them unusable. Some of the dumbbell stand panels were bent and gouged for similar reasons. The dumbbell weight plates were all simply stacked in boxes without any materials used to separate them. We now have photographed the damages for our records and can provide them if requested. The net result, is that due to inadequate packing, we have to scrap quite a few components and repaint all the plates so unfortunately had to apply a deduct to the refund.

The partial refund transaction was attempted, but did not go through yet because the credit card used to make the purchase had expired by the time we attempted to process the refund and we are not allowed to refund to an expired card. We have been working with the credit card processor on how to deal with this for a few business days now.

The return packing instructions were given verbally and it could be that there was a misunderstanding of the requirements and of our policy. Although we technically followed our return policies, we will eat all the costs involved since there is obviously a dispute in how this went and will not contest the chargeback. We will sort things out with the credit card processor. Please feel free to contact me if I can provide any additional information. Matt Dawson, 800-533-3339 x101

You had a chance to come onto the forum and give a simple apology and full refund. Instead you present ^^^THIS^^^. Keep your Ironmaster gear, strict return packaging policy, and your partial refunds. It is your full responsibility for sending the OP an unacceptable item.

[cmarti063]

You had a chance to come onto the forum and give a simple apology and full refund. Instead you present ^^^THIS^^^. Keep your Ironmaster gear, strict return packaging policy, and your partial refunds. It is your full responsibility for sending the OP an unacceptable item.

I wholeheartedly agree. You should take a cue from companies like Christian's Fitness Factory on what good customer service is. Admit you made a mistake sending a less than acceptable product then offer a full refund or a replacement with expedited shipping. Then, instead of a thread like this you would have one about how easy you were to deal with. Poor form.

[ProtienandIron]

You had a chance to come onto the forum and give a simple apology and full refund. Instead you present ^^^THIS^^^. Keep your Ironmaster gear, strict return packaging policy, and your partial refunds. It is your full responsibility for sending the OP an unacceptable item.

Totally agree.

A poor representation of the product was sent out, and then when they get it back, they decide to sting the OP. Shameful behaviour really. I could understand this kind of response if it was a simple case of 'buyers remorse', but this is not that. I would be expecting the seller to be the ones jumping through hoops to make it right, not issuing unreasonable instructions and deducting for contrived expenses.

I'm also a bit dissapointed in OPs behaviour here. Word of advice OP; next time you send things back, please be sure to suspend each individual plate in gravitational void, accompanied by at least 2 armed guards, and followed by a backup S.W.A.T team for the duration of transit. That way you can be sure the substandard product reaches the people that sold it to you, in the same condition they sent it out- substandard.

[ICEcap2]

I have Hoist dumbbells which I understand are similar to IM's old version. I don't like the poor casting quality of the plates and was considering "upgrading" to the IM for a better quality product. Not now! I think I will stick with the Hoist.

[Cimino36]

Totally agree.

A poor representation of the product was sent out, and then when they get it back, they decide to sting the OP. Shameful behaviour really. I could understand this kind of response if it was a simple case of 'buyers remorse', but this is not that. I would be expecting the seller to be the ones jumping through hoops to make it right, not issuing unreasonable instructions and deducting for contrived expenses.

I'm also a bit dissapointed in OPs behaviour here. Word of advice OP; next time you send things back, please be sure to suspend each individual plate in gravitational void, accompanied by at least 2 armed guards, and followed by a backup S.W.A.T team for the duration of transit. That way you can be sure the substandard product reaches the people that sold it to you, in the same condition they sent it out- substandard.

Cost of not using gravitational void- $30 for the refinishing of plates. Repped.

[morebarbell]

I'm hoping that Matt hasn't been run off. I would like him to respond to GI's questions. I'd especially like to know if the product returns are refurbished and resold as new?

[natlajoie]

I've heard and read nothing but good things about Ironmaster. This thread is actually one of the first that I've read that majorly strays from the majority of positive feedback. I had even owned Ironmaster Quicklocks and Superbench since 2009, but ended up selling them when money was tight in 2012. I was rather impressed during my time of ownership and still regret selling them. Quality was top notch. Anyways, I've learned over the years that production runs can have their mishaps. What is disturbing is when these mishaps get past quality control and are sold as new. I've purchased products, from what I consider to be the big names as far as quality, and even some of the items from my most trusted providers have been substandard for something new. The sign of a good company is one that fesses up to the poor quality, because that company has pride and knows what a proper representation of their equipment is. A good company also will offer a suitable means of resolution.

[thejosef]

Wow.. NOT impressed with Ironmaster's response. So much for buying that kettlebell from them.. No thanks.

Running a small business myself, that's not how I deal with my customers. I take a loss when needed to retain a customer and keep them happy.. it's part of business. Then, you learn from your mistakes and correct them so you don't let it happen again. Customer service matters.. and quality matters. Two things that were lacking on Ironmaster's part in this deal.

[Vermonter]

IronMaster makes a great product.

ANY painted iron dumbbells are going to show wear and tear eventually. One of the benefits of IMs is that they can take some abuse and work just as well as they did when new.

It sucks that the OP received poor quality product, but it sounds like his experience was an exception and not typical. I have always read that IM uses great packaging and takes great care to ensure the condition of their product during shipping. This was my experience when I received my KB handles and new plates, too. The OP mentioned that he really wanted a set of individual pro-styles, but was looking to save money. Even if the IMs had arrived in mint condition, I don't think they would have been a good fit for him.

So in the end, the CS side of things could have been handled better, but I don't think they were outside of the terms printed right on their web site:

Terms and Conditions

IRONMASTER GUARANTEE

Your satisfaction is our most important asset. 30% of our sales come from referrals from satisfied customers. Try our equipment in your home for up to 30 days and if you are not satisfied after trying the equipment, we will give you a full refund including all shipping charges. (out of country purchases and factory blemished clearance items excepted) If you decide to return your equipment, contact Ironmaster to ask for a return authorization. Items may not be returned after 30 days from receipt. Products must be returned in original condition and packaging (including all internal protective materials). Use care when repacking for shipment to prevent scratching and possible damage. If you are not sure how to prepare the packages, please contact us for assistance. Refurbishing or replacement charges may apply depending on the condition of the goods during inspection and will be deducted from the refund. ***Note: Orders cancelled after shipping has taken place or refused upon delivery and/or returned within 30 days, but not for legitimate product satisfaction reasons will be allowed, but will only be refunded less all shipping costs.***