why do PTs do this??

[Ethereal]

If you were 181, a powerlifter (therefore strong), and your C&J was only 200, then your technique was very poor.

You should follow your own advice and learn the oly lifts with a real coach. Also, stop teaching the oly lifts.

My technique is not poor. You have not seen it and therefore do not know. I know to perform them correctly and I know how to teach them.

[Ethereal]

And I'm saying that's rubbish. It's insulting to everyone here who's put in the time researching stuff and training hard.

Sure it'd be a nice luxury to have an experienced lifter showing you the ropes on squats, deadlifts, etc., but to say you can't safely and successfully get from A to B any other way is total bull****.

So what you're saying is we all need a trainer like you to show us the light?

READ MY POSTS! I am not saying everyone needs a trainer. I am saying everyone needs to be taught. Whether it is from mom, dad, friend, the football coach, whatever.

[Dominik]

My technique is not poor. I know to perform them correctly and I know how to teach them..

Kind of like you don't know everyone here who's learned squats/deadlifts/bench without a trainer isn't lifting with proper form?

[Ethereal]

LOL..........okay man, keep us updated........... let us know when you discover the cure for cancer.

I don't even know what to say this. Is this your counterpoint?

[ElMariachi]

READ MY POSTS! I am not saying everyone needs a trainer. I am saying everyone needs to be taught. Whether it is from mom, dad, friend, the football coach, whatever.

And WE are saying that you are full of s%6t. I don't know, maybe your mental capacity is a bit limited, but there are plenty of people who can teach themselves exercises just fine.

[UtahRocks]

My technique is not poor. You have not seen it and therefore do not know. I know to perform them correctly and I know how to teach them.

Your C&J is very weak. You're not weak, so the cause is poor form.

QED

[Ethereal]

Kind of like you don't know everyone here who's learned squats/deadlifts/bench without a trainer isn't lifting with proper form?

Again read my posts. I am just saying people need to be taught. Not necessarily by a trainer but they need to be taught.

I was taught. The guy who taught me was taught and so on and so fourth.

[Ethereal]

And WE are saying that you are full of s%6t. I don't know, maybe your mental capacity is a bit limited, but there are plenty of people who can teach themselves exercises just fine.

My mental capacity is not limited because I do not need to resort to insults. So if you like to get back to having an intellectual conversation, get back at me...

[DJAuto]

Again read my posts. I am just saying people need to be taught. Not necessarily by a trainer but they need to be taught.

I was taught. The guy who taught me was taught and so on and so fourth.

Taught, yes. But not by a person.

Books, articles etc. also teach. Trial and error teaches.

[UtahRocks]

READ MY POSTS! I am not saying everyone needs a trainer. I am saying everyone needs to be taught. Whether it is from mom, dad, friend, the football coach, whatever.

OK, time to confess. My mom taught me to deadlift.

[Dominik]

Again read my posts. I am just saying people need to be taught. Not necessarily by a trainer but they need to be taught.

I was taught. The guy who taught me was taught and so on and so fourth.

So you can't learn on your own?

Let me see if I understand this, by reading books written by experts and watching videos of experienced lifters, coupled with my own experience from trial and error in the gym I'm not learning anything and still need to be "taught?"

[Ethereal]

So you can't learn on your own?

Let me see if I understand this, by reading books written by experts and watching videos of experienced lifters, coupled with my own experience from trial and error in the gym I'm not learning anything and still need to be "taught?"

I never said that. Please stop misquoting me. BB.com can teach you a lot, watching videos can teach you a lot, but everyone needed someone to help get started, or to perfect something, point something out, whatever. People who perform these exercises correctly were taught by someone on the way. I am also going to say that (for the most part) personal trainers are a viable option if you are trying to learn proper technique, or learn how to design your own program, etc.... Everyone develops their own philosophy, but someone gave you the building blocks....

[ElMariachi]

I never said that. Please stop misquoting me. BB.com can teach you a lot, watching videos can teach you a lot, but everyone needed someone to help get started, or to perfect something, point something out, whatever. People who perform these exercises correctly were taught by someone on the way. I am also going to say that (for the most part) personal trainers are a viable option if you are trying to learn proper technique, or learn how to design your own program, etc.... Everyone develops their own philosophy, but someone gave you the building blocks....

Once again....bulls%6t.

[Dominik]

I never said that. Please stop misquoting me. BB.com can teach you a lot, watching videos can teach you a lot, but everyone needed someone to help get started, or to perfect something, point something out, whatever. People who perform these exercises correctly were taught by someone on the way. I am also going to say that (for the most part) personal trainers are a viable option if you are trying to learn proper technique, or learn how to design your own program, etc.... Everyone develops their own philosophy, but someone gave you the building blocks....

Are you drunk?

I said I didn't need anyone to show me those exercises in person. I researched those exercises as much as I could by reading books, online articles, watching videos, etc., and then started off with light weight and took it from there. Trial and error took care of the rest. Many others here have done the same.

I'm certainly not saying I'd pass up a training session with Andy Bolton to fine-tune my deadlift and squat but so far so good. Solid progress, no injuries.

[jdmalm123]

I researched those exercises as much as I could by reading books, online articles, watching videos, etc., and then started off with light weight and took it from there. Trial and error took care of the rest.

Negged for learning without a trainer. Shame on you. I need new Nikes (and I'm running low on Grey Goose). LOL.

[John Prophet]

I learned to do squats/deadlifts on my own, without any real difficulty. Anyone else can do the same without paying someone $60 an hour for the pleasure.

wow...what gym do YOU go to? In EVERY gym I have been to I have seen people who have no clue how to squat or do deads. Hell, 8 out of 10 people I see doing pulldowns to the front dont come close to proper form....unless almost touching your lap is proper, lol. Every day I see people standing and staring at a machine trying to figure out how to get on it.

I even saw a football COACH with some of his kids and the coach was trying to show them how to use a seated row machine. Obviously he had never used one before, lol. He was trying to do it as basically a standing squat while holding the handles etc.

so are we sure there is no need for trainers?


if there was no need for trainers...no one would pay trainers.


I know thats hard for some people to see. me myself, I have always been self taught in basically everything. Taught myself golf down to about a 10 handicap. Taught myself BMX racing and jumping. Taught myself electric lead guitar (almost 20 years worth now). Taught myself chess and I am looking over at like 20 chess books on my shelf. Tuahgt myself this and that

even when I was in the USAF, I naturally went thru training for Radio Electronics....but I didnt really know anything from that schooling...just enough to pass the test to the next section. What I eventually did learn was from SELF STUDY and I got to be the best in my shop in short order.


So I know all about self teaching. All of those things I have learned also have teachers that one can pay for help. I did take 2 golf lessons that only confirmed what I already knew since I had filmed my own swing dozens of times.

So I have no problem teachign myself. But I also KNOW that not everyone can do it the way I did. Some peopel dont have the time or inclination or the ABILITY. Why is that so hard to understand?

I mean to me...it is entirely feasible to teach oneself how to play electric guitar without paying a teacher. I am proof. So why do so many people quit playing in frustration after a month or so?? why does EVERY music store offer lessons??

working out is no different than those other activities I listed. All of them have paid instructors...so does fitness.

I wish it were as simple as everyone knowing everythign from self study...if it were I wouldnt have to see such terrible and dangerous form in the gym every day.


Right now, even though I am all about self help....I would be willing and desirous to pay a competent coach to help me learn proper clean/power clean technique. I have enough sense to see on video that what i am doign isnt so spiffy. So I can trudge on myself and take 6 months to maybe learn by train and error...or ideally I could learn correctly from someone more experienced than me.


some people can cut class and get by on cliff notes...some people need tutoring. Those r simple facts of life

if peopels lives are better with trainers, where is the harm? peopel ask me why i get offended?? better question is why do any of YOU since it has NOTHING to do with you, lol. Of course I get offended because I am quite proud that I try to help people

[Ethereal]

Are you drunk?

I said I didn't need anyone to show me those exercises in person. I researched those exercises as much as I could by reading books, online articles, watching videos, etc., and then started off with light weight and took it from there. Trial and error took care of the rest. Many others here have done the same.

I'm certainly not saying I'd pass up a training session with Andy Bolton to fine-tune my deadlift and squat but so far so good. Solid progress, no injuries.

Fine you did the research and you taught yourself. Congratulations. I have work tomorrow and finals. I will try to hop on this thread tomorrow in between clients.

[brad71983]

Right now, even though I am all about self help....I would be willing and desirous to pay a competent coach to help me learn proper clean/power clean technique. I have enough sense to see on video that what i am doign isnt so spiffy. So I can trudge on myself and take 6 months to maybe learn by train and error...or ideally I could learn correctly from someone more experienced than me.

Trainers DO have a place and CAN help someone when they ARE knowledgable.

What im saying (and most in this thread from what i gather) and will continue to say is the the VAST majority of PTs Ive ever met/seen are fuking idiots.

[ElMariachi]

wow...what gym do YOU go to? In EVERY gym I have been to I have seen people who have no clue how to squat or do deads. Hell, 8 out of 10 people I see doing pulldowns to the front dont come close to proper form....unless almost touching your lap is proper, lol. Every day I see people standing and staring at a machine trying to figure out how to get on it.

I'm not arguing with you, I'm stating that the majority of trainers THEMSELVES are not qualified to teach these exercises. That is from simple observation and the type of people that are drawn to training. The great trainers move on and complete their education, doing certification after certification, while the Country Club places like Bally's and LA Fitness are overly populated with folks who are almost as clueless as the people they are trying to train.


There's a definite lack of QUALIFIED trainers....hence......quality trainers, debate this all you want, but this is basically universally accepted. Once again, no need to get defensive or offended, it is just the truth that you have a lot of useless people in your profession.

[John Prophet]

I'm not arguing with you, I'm stating that the majority of trainers THEMSELVES are not qualified to teach these exercises. That is from simple observation and the type of people that are drawn to training. The great trainers move on and complete their education, doing certification after certification, while the Country Club places like Bally's and LA Fitness are overly populated with folks who are almost as clueless as the people they are trying to train.


There's a definite lack of QUALIFIED trainers....hence......quality trainers, debate this all you want, but this is basically universally accepted. Once again, no need to get defensive or offended, it is just the truth that you have a lot of useless people in your profession.

well, sad to say but of course I agree, lol.

then again, whats to be done about it? U want the govt to "fix it"?? good luck...what have they EVER fixed?


I mean, hell, I have seen trainers in various gyms that dont seem to know what they r doing..at least not by my personal standards....but if their clients feel better having that person there then who am I to argue.

I have seen trainers stand there and say nothign while someone squats with terrible form. Then u see the trainer working out and u see why...he only does 1/4 smith squats himself

Hell, some people dont even get much in the way of visible results but they continue to re-up because the trainer makes them feel good about theirself....much cheaper than psycho therapy I guess.

Me, i am not one of those trainers....in a way i wish I was...I am more "results oriented" but youd be surprised how many people dont have "results" anywhere near the top of their reasons for hiring a trainer.

[jules_d1]

Have not read the whole thread but the whole thing about people doing squats on bosu balls (half a swiss ball) is very common. Not everyone trains to be a bb'er. many surfers, rock climbers and gymnastics etc etc do exercises like this not help the core strength and balance (one in the same really)

[Dominik]

if peopels lives are better with trainers, where is the harm? peopel ask me why i get offended?? better question is why do any of YOU since it has NOTHING to do with you, lol. Of course I get offended because I am quite proud that I try to help people

More people are helped on forums like this than however many you can reach at your local gym.

I like seeing someone take a piece of information and use it to improve their training and get results. Even if you're never credited or thanked for it, the reward is seeing that it worked and you learn more about your own training through helping others.

The only point of contention for me is I genuinely don't think most need to pay for that information unless they're training for Oly lifting, or are a competitive bodybuilder or elite powerlifter looking for an edge, and if the average healthy adult male or female does require the help of a PT to get started then we're talking weeks and maybe months, not years. It's not rocket science.

[John Prophet]

it could be worse....I could be a televangelist

[jdmalm123]

then again, whats to be done about it?

There is an effort to develop a national pt cert. It would be testing one would have to pass to be called a certified trainer. Not one of the 50+ certs out there that are of varying quality. I know there are already specializations at the national level, but this is geared toward not allowing someone to call themselves a personal trainer and certainly not practice without proving a high level of technical proficiency.

Not that testing alone proves the trainer has everything they need to know, but it would eliminate those who answer 12 questions and download a trainer cert in 15 minutes online to go work at a commercial gym.

I'm all for it.

[John Prophet]

The only point of contention for me is I genuinely don't think most need to pay for that information

I totally agree...MOST dont.

are u forgetting that I have posted thousands of informative posts that i dont receive a dime for?

u also forget that, as amazing as it seems, not everyone owns a computer or knows how to operate one, lol. Not everyone knows how to wade thru the mounds of BS and/or conflciting info either

[ElMariachi]

There is an effort to develop a national pt cert. It would be testing one would have to pass to be called a certified trainer. Not one of the 50+ certs out there that are of varying quality. I know there are already specializations at the national level, but this is geared toward not allowing someone to call themselves a personal trainer and certainly not practice without proving a high level of technical proficiency.

Not that testing alone proves the trainer has everything they need to know, but it would eliminate those who answer 12 questions and download a trainer cert in 15 minutes online to go work at a commercial gym.

I'm all for it.

That would be very important. Just as most professions have one basic universal standard to which they are measured by, having ONE NATIONALLY recognized/required certification to become a professional trainer, would be a HUGE step forward towards eliminating many of the dumbasses that currently call themselves "personal trainers." It would also go a long way towards promoting more credibility to the profession as a whole.

[John Prophet]

That would be very important. Just as most professions have one basic universal standard to which they are measured by, having ONE NATIONALLY recognized/required certification to become a professional trainer, would be a HUGE step forward towards eliminating many of the dumbasses that currently call themselves "personal trainers." It would also go a long way towards promoting more credibility to the profession as a whole.

I wont hold my breath though, lol....the so called standards for doctors are way higher than a PT standard will ever be, yet u have quacks on every corner and u go to 3 doctors and end up with 4 different diagnoses

[Dominik]

it could be worse....I could be a televangelist

[ElMariachi]

I wont hold my breath though, lol....the so called standards for doctors are way higher than a PT standard will ever be, yet u have quacks on every corner and u go to 3 doctors and end up with 4 different diagnoses

Yea, but every doctor has to be tested to the same standards, so they are all taught basically the same knowledge.....now as far as what they do with it....is up to them, but they have a minimum requirement for knowledge that they MUST possess to become doctors. At least with one standard for personal trainers, there would be a baseline set for minimum knowledge that a personal trainer must be competent in to become officially certified.

[jdmalm123]

MY apologies, a national test exists, but it is optional. The push is to make it mandatory.

From www.afaa.com:
The National Board for Personal Fitness Trainers is the first set of standardized written and practical exams offered by the National Board of Fitness Examiners (NBFE). The NBFE is a non-profit organization founded in 2003 whose mission is to provide industry-developed standardized exams for personal fitness trainers. For additional information visit www.nbfe.org.

from www.nfbe.org:
Fortunately for the fitness profession, Dr. Scott Arbet, a former vice president of the National Board of Medical Examiners, is leading the next phase.

The NBFE, in collaboration with many other major leaders in the fitness industry, is in the process of creating a hands-on performance assessment for the personal fitness trainer. The examination will provide multiple simulated "real life" situations that a personal fitness trainer could encounter in his or her daily life as a fitness expert.

Our intent is to provide a brief yet comprehensive sampling of these multiple encounters in such a way as to provide the candidate with a representation of real work situations. These encounters will be designed for simple and reliable scoring to allow us (the profession) to set the minimum performance standards to pass.