RESVERATROL: Actually Detrimental to Protein Syntheis?!

[thouomega]

hello,

First things first, if you are unaware of mtor pathways being activated via leucine gtfo

This thread is regarding the studies that mention the seemingly counter-intuitive and contradictory effects of resveratrol. Here are are two links that serve as examples to the endless stream that lead to my confusion:

(1) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22913271

(2) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21168265

To put thinks frankly, the first study suggests synergistic capabilities of supplementing Leucine or its metabolite HMB with Resveratrol for increased SIRT1 activity in essence increasing insulin sensitivity (anabolic) while the second study confirms resveratrol's mTor inhibiting effect (highly counterproductive to protein synthesis).

This leads me to the following question: if I am currently taking leucine along with HMB is it counterproductive in terms of optimal protein synthesis and overall muscular gains to take resveratrol?

[thouomega]

additional links:
http://www.jbc.org/content/285/47/36387.full.pdf
http://suppversity.blogspot.com/2012...c-sirtuin.html

[Mk2fly]

I'm not too sure if I agree with this.

Your typical Resveratrol dose is equivalent to 2-4 servings of red wine.

The supplement itself helps fight the oxidation process and has many human double blind studies proving this and other benefits.

From what I've studied, Resveratrol may counteract with NSAIDS, SSRI's, and MAIO's.

[thouomega]

Right. Its anti-anabolic in nature and shuts down the metabolic mTor pathways stimulated by leucine... Not sure what point your making about its healthy benefits in the oxidation process.

So is Resveratrol a no-no when bulking? Especially during the use of Leucine or its metabolite(HMB)?

[Mk2fly]

? That first study was conducted on mice and the second dealt with cell biologists hypothesizing that the resveratrol-rapamycin combination "may" have therapeutic value in treating breast cancer and perhaps other processes where mTOR is activated.

There have been 4 double-blind HUMAN studies, with a total of 74 subjects. In all of these Resveratrol improved insulin sensitivity, reduced oxidative stress and activates the Akt pathway in type 2 diabetic patients.

[small_azn]

I thought the leucine-mtor thing was bunked?

[Vasarnap]

? That first study was conducted on mice and the second dealt with cell biologists hypothesizing that the resveratrol-rapamycin combination "may" have therapeutic value in treating breast cancer and perhaps other processes where mTOR is activated.

There have been 4 double-blind HUMAN studies, with a total of 74 subjects. In all of these Resveratrol improved insulin sensitivity, reduced oxidative stress and activates the Akt pathway in type 2 diabetic patients.

I was reading an article on this a couple weeks back. Do you have a pubmed for one of these studies? Curious to read the controls and what not.

[hereforhelp]

i currently take resveratrol and recently have been taking it post workout along with curumin.

I dont understand...should i stop it altogether?

[LaViidaLocaa]

i currently take resveratrol and recently have been taking it post workout along with curumin.

I dont understand...should i stop it altogether?

Both are very good for your health and should not be dropped due to one minimal study. Keep taking them, I suggest.

[Mr.Cooper69]

Burn this thread!

[Ninjathoskinny]

It's counter productive to take leucine and or hmb at all.

[cumminslifter]

It's counter productive to take leucine and or hmb at all.

how?

[optimus1]

won't take it anymore. between the negative effects on endurance, post-workout recovery, and the mtor pathway, no thx jeff. If it legit does have a slight anti-aging effect due to reducing mtor activity, this would be at the expense of gains..

[LaViidaLocaa]

won't take it anymore. between the negative effects on endurance, post-workout recovery, and the mtor pathway, no thx jeff. If it legit does have a slight anti-aging effect due to reducing mtor activity, this would be at the expense of gains..

To be honest, before reading your post and subsequently researching it, I didn't know about the negative effect on exercise-mediated effects. Interesting..

[DR_P]

Right. Its anti-anabolic in nature and shuts down the metabolic mTor pathways stimulated by leucine... Not sure what point your making about its healthy benefits in the oxidation process.

A plethora of substances found in foods do also participate in anti-anabolic pathways - among many other pathways. The beauty of natural compounds is that they more often than not simultaneously subserve various, partly overlapping, partly antagonistic and partly synergistic pathways. That's how our body and complex biological systems work: they are regulated by lots of redundancies, feedback- and feed-forward activation and inhibition pathways, that are interfering with each other. We are just beginning to understand the complexity of these interactions.

That being said, the fact that resveratrol does - among many other things - also interfere with mTOR regulation, has no relevance as long as you don't show that in real life - in living organisms- resveratrol may actually negatively impact muscle muscle mass or training-induced gains etc.

If we could extrapolate a clinical effect from just one biochemical pathway, it would be endlessly easier to develop new drugs / medications. Unfortunately, one pathway that is being hit by a compound is just one pathway of perhaps hundreds or thousands of them, and nobody can exactely predict how these pathways interact and regulate each other. That's why the proof is always in the pudding and biological/clinical effects can only be deduced from clinical trials and never from some experiments in petri dishes.