Deadlifts, a movement for the calves...

[bodyhard]

Now before you guys think I am some kind of a nut, hear me out.

For the last 7.5 weeks I have been on 3x a week full body routine where I do deadlifts (amongst other movements) each workout.

And while my body has responded extremely well to the routine I have noticed that my calves are growing as well. My calves have been sore almost all the time and while I did not give it much thought, I did noticed that when I do my deadlifts my calves have been firing.

So it got me to thinking, what am I doing different in the deads besides doing them 3x a week? And when I gave it more attention to detailed I remembered changing my "execution" in the deadlift from day one. Instead of focusing on lifting the bar up, I have been staying on my heels and trying to push my feet "through" the floor and while this has helped me tremendously on the lift, my calves have become more involved in the movement.

So yeah deadlifts to build calves

[Marius_Ursus]

Now before you guys think I am some kind of a nut, hear me out.

For the last 7.5 weeks I have been on 3x a week full body routine where I do deadlifts (amongst other movements) each workout.

And while my body has responded extremely well to the routine I have noticed that my calves are growing as well. My calves have been sore almost all the time and while I did not give it much thought, I did noticed that when I do my deadlifts my calves have been firing.

So it got me to thinking, what am I doing different in the deads besides doing them 3x a week? And when I gave it more attention to detailed I remembered changing my "execution" in the deadlift from day one. Instead of focusing on lifting the bar up, I have been staying on my heels and trying to push my feet "through" the floor and while this has helped me tremendously on the lift, my calves have become more involved in the movement.

So yeah deadlifts to build calves

When I posted this info five years ago, all ya'll got out the torches and pitchforks. LOL

I might not be built like you and ID and ArchAngel, but I *do* know a thing or two about lifting weights.

[bodyhard]

When I posted this info five years ago, all ya'll got out the torches and pitchforks. LOL

I might not be built like you and ID and ArchAngel, but I *do* know a thing or two about lifting weights.

Did i say something as well?

I never would have thought dedlifting would build my calves and I have been deadlifting for a long time, but I just learned something new through experimenting on my movement to improve my lift.

[Marius_Ursus]

Did i say something as well?

I never would have thought dedlifting would build my calves and I have been deadlifting for a long time, but I just learned something new through experimenting on my movement to improve my lift.

You know what? I can't remember specifically if you did. I actually can't remember who said what...It was in a thread where some guy said his calves never grew, and I replied that he should try sinking back into his hips more when he deadlifts (same concept as driving your legs into the floor) to activate his calves more on the lift...because I never do direct calf work, and mine are big (and not just fat! haha). A buncha guys posted that it was genetics, but no one who posted in the thread was willing to admit I might be onto something.

I also clench down on my calves really hard when I start ascending in a squat, and I think that has something to do with my calf development, too.

I think if you're to a point in your physique where you need to balance your calves with something else, it makes sense to do direct calf work, but guys who are either just lifters (like me) or noobs should just work on using their muscles right.

[bodyhard]

You know what? I can't remember specifically if you did. I actually can't remember who said what...It was in a thread where some guy said his calves never grew, and I replied that he should try sinking back into his hips more when he deadlifts (same concept as driving your legs into the floor) to activate his calves more on the lift...because I never do direct calf work, and mine are big (and not just fat! haha). A buncha guys posted that it was genetics, but no one who posted in the thread was willing to admit I might be onto something.

I also clench down on my calves really hard when I start ascending in a squat, and I think that has something to do with my calf development, too.

I think if you're to a point in your physique where you need to balance your calves with something else, it makes sense to do direct calf work, but guys who are either just lifters (like me) or noobs should just work on using their muscles right.

Yeah I don't remember that thread, though I could have possibly said something though as I would have never thought Deads could stimulate the calves.

[induced_drag]

BH

You have been training a long time. There is NO doubt about that.

With that said.....if deadlifts are stimulating calf growth in you, you are doing them wrong. Your calves should not be 'firing' as you put on a deadlift drive. You want as little pressure on the balls of your feet as possible (which I know you know). It is impossible to flex you calf without transferring pressure though the balls of your feet.

Is it possible that doing full body routines multiple times per week are just leaving them feeling fuller and tighter? 6-7 weeks is not enough time at your stage of development to see new growth. Maybe 6 months or a year.

Just my thoughts.

[bodyhard]

BH

You have been training a long time. There is NO doubt about that.

With that said.....if deadlifts are stimulating calf growth in you, you are doing them wrong. Your calves should not be 'firing' as you put on a deadlift drive. You want as little pressure on the balls of your feet as possible (which I know you know). It is impossible to flex you calf without transferring pressure though the balls of your feet.

Is it possible that doing full body routines multiple times per week are just leaving them feeling fuller and tighter? 6-7 weeks is not enough time at your stage of development to see new growth. Maybe 6 months or a year.

Just my thoughts.

If I am doing them wrong then the outcome is better than when I was doing them right, so I am good

There is no pressure on the balls of my feet at all, all in the heels, planted firmly on the floor.

[induced_drag]

If I am doing them wrong then the outcome is better than when I was doing them right, so I am good

There is no pressure on the balls of my feet at all, all in the heels, planted firmly on the floor.

On a funny note.....if doing lots of deads stimulated calves.....

Well, have you seen my calves!?

[bodyhard]

On a funny note.....if doing lots of deads stimulated calves.....

Well, have you seen my calves!?

LOL then stop doing them correctly maybe you will get some growth

[GnomusMaximus]

Deadlifts are a lift for the soul.

[Marius_Ursus]

If I am doing them wrong then the outcome is better than when I was doing them right, so I am good

There is no pressure on the balls of my feet at all, all in the heels, planted firmly on the floor.

I don't think it's wrong. I think it's just different. How many directions does your foot move? Your calves do a lot more than allow you to go up onto your toes, so if you're not training them in full movement flexing, you're probably missing out on growth. It's pretty easy to fire the calves by sinking your weight back into your hips, driving your heels down (like you said above), and squeezing your calves as you start to drive back up.

[tobymax123]

Wow.

I've had a lot of calf soreness in the past couple of years, and now that I reflect upon it, it started when I started doing deadlifts and other compounds in January of 2013. I even talked to my doctor about it. Told him my calves were sore as if I had done a calf workout, even when I hadn't done a calf workout. So he checked for certain muscle enzymes or some such thing on my last blood test and found nothing out of the ordinary.

Well, now I know. And it makes total sense. Whether it's deadlifts, squats, OHP or bench press... each one engages the calves to an extent. And my calf soreness started when I started doing those exercises. ****. It seems so obvious now.

[Marius_Ursus]

Wow.

I've had a lot of calf soreness in the past couple of years, and now that I reflect upon it, it started when I started doing deadlifts and other compounds in January of 2013. I even talked to my doctor about it. Told him my calves were sore as if I had done a calf workout, even when I hadn't done a calf workout. So he checked for certain muscle enzymes or some such thing on my last blood test and found nothing out of the ordinary.

Well, now I know. And it makes total sense. Whether it's deadlifts, squats, OHP or bench press... each one engages the calves to an extent. And my calf soreness started when I started doing those exercises. ****. It seems so obvious now.

Right, and the more you engage your posterior chain loading your hamstrings by sinking into you hips, the more calf muscle it's going to recruit. I don't think it's possible to engage the hamstrings without activating the calves to some extent, so the amount of calf work comes down to technique.

[bodyhard]

I don't think it's wrong. I think it's just different. How many directions does your foot move? Your calves do a lot more than allow you to go up onto your toes, so if you're not training them in full movement flexing, you're probably missing out on growth. It's pretty easy to fire the calves by sinking your weight back into your hips, driving your heels down (like you said above), and squeezing your calves as you start to drive back up.

I know it is not wrong, I am just humoring ID

Wow.

I've had a lot of calf soreness in the past couple of years, and now that I reflect upon it, it started when I started doing deadlifts and other compounds in January of 2013. I even talked to my doctor about it. Told him my calves were sore as if I had done a calf workout, even when I hadn't done a calf workout. So he checked for certain muscle enzymes or some such thing on my last blood test and found nothing out of the ordinary.

Well, now I know. And it makes total sense. Whether it's deadlifts, squats, OHP or bench press... each one engages the calves to an extent. And my calf soreness started when I started doing those exercises. ****. It seems so obvious now.

Dude your build is getting better and better, much props!

[induced_drag]

I know it is not wrong, I am just humoring ID

BH and Marius

I would never state that there is no stimulation from the stabilization effort that calves make in large compound movements. Deads, squats, standing ohp...etc. I just simply feel that a guy with BH's level of training would not see this effect as a good deal of stimulation compared to all the direct work he gives his calves. Sure, to an untrained guy, or a guy who avoids calf work, these exercises can make you 'feel' it in the calf. But direct work (standing calf raises, seated.....etc) provide MUCH MUCH more stimulation.

It is arguing that essentially isometric contraction is responsible for this new 'growth'. Anyone who has been in the iron game any length of time know isotonic movements are what we build our training around NOT isometric.

Not arguing....this is really a common sense discussion. Not saying anything is not possible, but I am thinking the likelihood is fairly low, this is having any great impact. With so many variables in his new training routine, I dont think (and I have no idea how he has figured out) it is solely deadlifts that are responsible for the way his calves are responding.

[tobymax123]

Dude your build is getting better and better, much props!

Thanks man, the comment is much appreciated. Trying to keep up with you and the others here.

[bodyhard]

I dont think (and I have no idea how he has figured out) it is solely deadlifts that are responsible for the way his calves are responding.

I have not trained my calves directly in the last 7.5 weeks and yet they are responding faster, than when I was.

But don't get me wrong, I would never NOT do direct work for any body part, you know I am all about building the perfect symmetrical build.

But who knows maybe my calves respond better to NO direct work the way you say your biceps respond to no direct work

[induced_drag]

But who knows maybe my calves respond better to NO direct work the way you say your biceps respond to no direct work

I always do some form of direct work, it is just not my primary exercise.

I get what you are saying. But for something more analogous to how I train, it would be like you doing heavy farmers walks, or yolk carries. (something where your calves are actively working through a range of motion, not just holding an almost static contraction).

Hell....I could believe your calve are growing more from you squatting 3x/week more than I can deadlifting! Did you ever think it could be all the squats?

Regardless.....progress is good in any way!

[bodyhard]

I always do some form of direct work, it is just not my primary exercise.

I get what you are saying. But for something more analogous to how I train, it would be like you doing heavy farmers walks, or yolk carries. (something where your calves are actively working through a range of motion, not just holding an almost static contraction).

Hell....I could believe your calve are growing more from you squatting 3x/week more than I can deadlifting! Did you ever think it could be all the squats?

Regardless.....progress is good in any way!

Hmmm that is a good point on the calves from the squats, but I don't feel them (the calves) the way I do when I am doing the deadlifts in the manner I explained earlier.

Last night I did another experiment, I deadlifted the way I normally do and I did not feel any tension on my calves, then when I executed the movement as described, BAM calves came into play. And because my calves have been responding and my deadlift is getting better there is no need for me to deadlift the way I used to.

[shawnbellon]

I tore my right calf deadlifting and no one believed it. At least for isometric your calves and soleus are working...which gives more credence to isometrics. Plus you may have stumbled onto a great format for overall growth and recovery.

[InternetTuffGuy]

Maybe off topic but I watched a deadlift video from Ant. I believe he's an Animal Pak athlete and he considers deads to be a push exercise describing it just like you did BH. He focuses on pushing down to get the weight up...or something to that effect. Seems to be a different spin on the general consensus.

[Marius_Ursus]

BH and Marius

I would never state that there is no stimulation from the stabilization effort that calves make in large compound movements. Deads, squats, standing ohp...etc. I just simply feel that a guy with BH's level of training would not see this effect as a good deal of stimulation compared to all the direct work he gives his calves. Sure, to an untrained guy, or a guy who avoids calf work, these exercises can make you 'feel' it in the calf. But direct work (standing calf raises, seated.....etc) provide MUCH MUCH more stimulation.

It is arguing that essentially isometric contraction is responsible for this new 'growth'. Anyone who has been in the iron game any length of time know isotonic movements are what we build our training around NOT isometric.

Not arguing....this is really a common sense discussion. Not saying anything is not possible, but I am thinking the likelihood is fairly low, this is having any great impact. With so many variables in his new training routine, I dont think (and I have no idea how he has figured out) it is solely deadlifts that are responsible for the way his calves are responding.

On the other hand if isometric contraction weren't a factor, time under tension wouldn't matter.

[bodyhard]

Maybe off topic but I watched a deadlift video from Ant. I believe he's an Animal Pak athlete and he considers deads to be a push exercise describing it just like you did BH. He focuses on pushing down to get the weight up...or something to that effect. Seems to be a different spin on the general consensus.

Who the hell is Ant?

[drudixon]

I always do some form of direct work, it is just not my primary exercise.

I get what you are saying. But for something more analogous to how I train, it would be like you doing heavy farmers walks, or yolk carries. (something where your calves are actively working through a range of motion, not just holding an almost static contraction).

Hell....I could believe your calve are growing more from you squatting 3x/week more than I can deadlifting! Did you ever think it could be all the squats?

Regardless.....progress is good in any way!

Muscles still use ATP and are twitching even when the myofibril isn't lengthening or contracting. Strength will even increase for that 5 degree section of Rom.

[induced_drag]

Muscles still use ATP and are twitching even when the myofibril isn't lengthening or contracting. Strength will even increase for that 5 degree section of Rom.

Again, I am not saying that it wont provide stim. I was simply saying that a guy at BH's level of training, I would find it had to believe that iso contractions would be responsible for new found growth. As I stated, I could believe squats more than deads. And with no real overall calorie and macro tracking, changes in stress levels, (being laid off, getting new job...etc), the variables just keep increasing as to what could be responsible for new growth.

[Guinea-pig]

Deadlifts a movement for calves...

Hmmm tall story or what ?

[Marius_Ursus]

Again, I am not saying that it wont provide stim. I was simply saying that a guy at BH's level of training, I would find it had to believe that iso contractions would be responsible for new found growth. As I stated, I could believe squats more than deads. And with no real overall calorie and macro tracking, changes in stress levels, (being laid off, getting new job...etc), the variables just keep increasing as to what could be responsible for new growth.

Any underused muscle is going to respond to new stimulus regardless of training level.

[bodyhard]

Any underused muscle is going to respond to new stimulus regardless of training level.

This is true, but also even a fully trained muscle will respond to a different stimulus.

For a person like me who has been training for a long time, it is all about changing hand position, speed tempo, foot placement etc etc. It gets harder and harder so we experienced lifters need to change things up all the times.

This is one of the reasons I continue to change over the years.

Right now my legs and calves have been the best they have ever been, but don't get it twisted I have trained them over the years like a mad man so I understand what ID is saying.

[a-dog]

didn't read every reply so sorry if this was covered but what (about) was your bodyweight when you started and what is your bodyweight now?

if you put on some weight I don't think it's out of the question that your lower legs look a bit larger, I don't know if you actually added any muscle there. just a thought.

[silverlightning]

BH, what is your rep scheme on DL? i know when i go high reps, my hamstrings are activated more and more. i also know when i leg press and i'm really pushing against the plat form, my calves will activate more as well. what ever it is, i wish my calves would grow more.