catholic beliefs

**jf1** · 03-05-2011, 07:58 AM

believing in magic should completely discredit catholicism.

1. holy water; water 'blessed' by a priest that magically has the power to ward off evil spirits.

2. confession; the belief that ones sins are magically absolved by telling them to a priest and then chanting prayers in penance.

3. transubstantiation; blessing a wheat wafer and wine magically converts them into the body and blood of jesus.

how can this institution be taken seriously?
how can any educated, modern man accept this obvious fraud?
discuss

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholicism

**Harbinger** · 03-05-2011, 08:00 AM

inb4 Tom's wall.

**ShoulderRoll** · 03-05-2011, 08:00 AM

Realised this when I was about 8.

I remember one time some priest explaining to me how at communion I was actually drinking the blood of Jesus. Fixed him the firmest bertstare

Lol @ my dad pretending he believed in that bullsh*t

**TH3SHR3DD3R** · 03-05-2011, 08:02 AM

*chuckles* Yeah, Scientology is crazy. Thank goodness it's not a REAL religion like . . . oh. Wait.

**MesoPeaks** · 03-05-2011, 08:04 AM

more from here: http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False...hail_satan.htm

**StrongPostBrah** · 03-05-2011, 08:11 AM

Hey you've mentioned my favourite things about the faith!

Originally Posted by jf1

1. holy water; water 'blessed' by a priest that magically has the power to ward off evil spirits.

2. confession; the belief that ones sins are magically absolved by telling them to a priest and then chanting prayers in penance.

3. transubstantiation; blessing a wheat wafer and wine magically converts them into the body and blood of jesus.

PAX CHRISTI Jack!

**jf1** · 03-05-2011, 08:28 AM

Originally Posted by StrongPostBrah

Hey you've mentioned my favourite things about the faith!
PAX CHRISTI Jack!

these concepts may have been effective for the uneducated people of medieval times, but there is no way that they should be accepted today.
pure superstition.
obviously.

you need to re-examine your beliefs tom.
you have been fooled.

**StrongPostBrah** · 03-05-2011, 08:38 AM

Originally Posted by jf1

these concepts may have been effective for the uneducated people of medieval times, but there is no way that they should be accepted today.
pure superstition.
obviously.

you need to re-examine your beliefs tom.
you have been fooled.

Thank you for your concern.

He that eateth My flesh, and drinketh My blood, hath everlasting life: and I will raise him up in the last day. For My flesh is meat indeed: and My blood is drink indeed. He that eateth My flesh, and drinketh My blood, abideth in Me, and I in him. -- John 6: 55-57

"True followers of Christ; Be prepared to have a world make jokes at your expense. You can hardly expect a world to be more revert to you than to Our Lord. When it does make fun of your faith, its practices, abstinences, and rituals - then you are moving to a closer identity with Him Who gave us our faith. Under scorn Our Lord 'answered nothing'. The world gets amusement from a Christian who fails to be Christian, but none from his respectful silence." - Archbishop Fulton Sheen

**Forge3** · 03-05-2011, 08:45 AM

Lol I can never beat you and I'm not afraid to admit that

My own religion confuses me to no end (serious). I really don't know a lot lol. I just abandoned religion and decided to follow the Gospels instead.

**jf1** · 03-05-2011, 09:59 AM

Originally Posted by StrongPostBrah

"True followers of Christ; Be prepared to have a world make jokes at your expense.
Because your religion is obviously an absurd farce."
Archbishop Fulton Sheen

fixed

**StrongPostBrah** · 03-05-2011, 10:06 AM

Originally Posted by jf1

fixed

Mature, intelligent and witty as always.

**Twist3dJok3r** · 03-05-2011, 10:29 AM

The difference is no Catholic believes there is "magic" involved. You are the one calling it magic. Its symbolic, not literal.

**StrongPostBrah** · 03-05-2011, 10:32 AM

Originally Posted by Twist3dJok3r

The difference is no Catholic believes there is "magic" involved. You are the one calling it magic. Its symbolic, not literal.

I'm not sure what you mean by that. It's symbolic AND literal.

The Body and Blood is the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ. It's not magic. It's a miracle of God. This is exactly what Catholics believe. If not, you need some Catechism classes

**Twist3dJok3r** · 03-05-2011, 10:34 AM

Originally Posted by StrongPostBrah

I'm not sure what you mean by that. It's symbolic AND literal.

The Body and Blood is the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ. It's not magic. It's a miracle of God.

That is not a logical argument because you know its not literally blood and flesh...

"The Catholic Church teaches that when the bread and wine are consecrated in the Eucharist, they cease to be bread and wine, and become, respectively, the body and blood of Christ, each of which is accompanied by the other and by Christ's soul and divinity. The empirical appearance and physical properties are not changed, but for Catholics, the reality is"

Do you think if you are arguing with a non-Catholic, the argument will go anywhere if they do not share the same faith?

**StrongPostBrah** · 03-05-2011, 10:37 AM

Originally Posted by Twist3dJok3r

That is not a logical argument because you know its not literally blood and flesh...

I am not making an argument so I am not sure what you think is illogical? I am simply telling you what Catholics believe. Also, it is literally blood and flesh. I just said it is. Jesus said it is. Senses can perceive only accidents, and consecration changes only the substance. Substance changes, accidents stay the same. The Miracle of the Eucharist.

**Twist3dJok3r** · 03-05-2011, 10:45 AM

Originally Posted by StrongPostBrah

I am not making an argument so I am not sure what you think is illogical? I am simply telling you what Catholics believe. Also, it is literally blood and flesh. I just said it is. Jesus said it is. Senses can perceive only accidents, and consecration changes only the substance. Substance changes, accidents stay the same. The Miracle of the Eucharist.

See, you don't believe there can be an argument because your faith tells you there is no argument. I am well aware of what Catholics believe as I am a practicing Catholic. It is literally blood and flesh from YOUR perspective...but I guarantee you if they did a scientific analysis of the bread after it has been blessed, it does not share any of the same qualities as human flesh. Thus, the blessing is symbolic. Jesus said many things, but none of them were written down until after his death. Much of what he said was symbolic and the context of when he said such things was much different than today.

**jf1** · 03-05-2011, 10:45 AM

Originally Posted by Twist3dJok3r

The difference is no Catholic believes there is "magic" involved. You are the one calling it magic. Its symbolic, not literal.

no.
they literally believe these things.
i call it magic, they call it a "miracle"!

Originally Posted by StrongPostBrah

I'm not sure what you mean by that. It's symbolic AND literal.

The Body and Blood is the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ. It's not magic. It's a miracle of God.

see what i mean?!

Originally Posted by Twist3dJok3r

That is not a logical argument because you know its not literally blood and flesh...

no he doesnt.
i know that and you know that.
catholics believe in magic...they think it really is the body and blood.

Originally Posted by StrongPostBrah

I am not making an argument so I am not sure what you think is illogical? I am simply telling you what Catholics believe. Also, it is literally blood and flesh. I just said it is. Jesus said it is. Senses can perceive only accidents, and consecration changes only the substance. Substance changes, accidents stay the same. The Miracle of the Eucharist.

said substance can be tested and proven to still be wheat and wine.
yet catholics are so delusional they will dispute this...despite scentific PROOF to the contrary.

thats why catholics should expect ridicule; because their beliefs can be proven false.

their magic doesnt work in the 21st century.
catholicism should be investigated for fraud!

**Twist3dJok3r** · 03-05-2011, 10:48 AM

Originally Posted by jf1

no.
they literally believe these things.
i call it magic, they call it a "miracle"!

see what i mean?!

no he doesnt.
i know that and you know that.
catholics believe in magic...they think it really is the body and blood.

said substance can be tested and proven to still be wheat and wine.
yet catholics are so delusional they will dispute this...despite scentific PROOF to the contrary.

thats why catholics should expect ridicule; because their beliefs can be proven false.

their magic doesnt work in the 21st century.
catholicism should be investigated for fraud!

I am Catholic, strongpostbrah is arguing on a faith based level whereas I prefer to make my arguments based on a logical level. I do not believe in magic, I believe in what I profess in the Nicene Creed. HOWEVER, I also believe in the symbolism of many elements of Catholicism.

**StrongPostBrah** · 03-05-2011, 10:50 AM

Originally Posted by Twist3dJok3r

See, you don't believe there can be an argument because your faith tells you there is no argument. I am well aware of what Catholics believe as I am a practicing Catholic. It is literally blood and flesh from YOUR perspective...but I guarantee you if they did a scientific analysis of the bread after it has been blessed, it does not share any of the same qualities as human flesh. Thus, the blessing is symbolic. Jesus said many things, but none of them were written down until after his death. Much of what he said was symbolic and the context of when he said such things was much different than today.

This post confuses me, you call it my faith then tell me you are a practising Catholic - and one who denies what the Catholic Church teaches?

It is blood and flesh from a Catholic perspective. Jesus said so many times in scripture, the Apostles taught it, the Early Church fathers taught it.

There are Eucharistic miracles - all you need to do is google them.

In all charity and kindness, from one Catholic to another, you need to speak to your priest about this. The Eucharist is the fundamental of the faith.

A few links for you my friend:

http://www.christusrex.org/www1/CDHN/euch1.html
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05572c.htm
http://www.crossroadsinitiative.com/...Eucharist.html
http://www.scripturecatholic.com/the_eucharist.html

**StrongPostBrah** · 03-05-2011, 10:54 AM

Originally Posted by Twist3dJok3r

I am Catholic, strongpostbrah is arguing on a faith based level whereas I prefer to make my arguments based on a logical level. I do not believe in magic, I believe in what I profess in the Nicene Creed. HOWEVER, I also believe in the symbolism of many elements of Catholicism.

You deny the transubstantiation yet you affirm in the Apostles creed the Incarnation of Christ? Brother, God works miracles and he can do whatever he likes

We confess this in the creed:
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church. - Obedience to the Church in other words. The Church teaches that the Eucharist is the body and blood of Our Lord.

Why should symbolism exclude everything else? The Eucharist is symbolic in many ways too.

I am starting to think you are trolling and pretending to be Catholic. Very few Catholics are so poorly Catechised.

**Twist3dJok3r** · 03-05-2011, 10:55 AM

Originally Posted by StrongPostBrah

This post confuses me, you call it my faith then tell me you are a practising Catholic - and one who denies what the Catholic Church teaches?

It is blood and flesh from a Catholic perspective. Jesus said so many times in scripture, the Apostles taught it, the Early Church fathers taught it.

There are Eucharistic miracles - all you need to do is google them.

In all charity and kindness, from one Catholic to another, you need to speak to your priest about this. The Eucharist is the fundamental of the faith.

A few links for you my friend:

http://www.christusrex.org/www1/CDHN/euch1.html
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05572c.htm
http://www.crossroadsinitiative.com/...Eucharist.html
http://www.scripturecatholic.com/the_eucharist.html

I refer to it as your faith because each person's faith is different. I do not accept certain things that the Church teaches because I feel that the Church is wrong. It is certainly your right to follow blindly an institution that allows its clergy to rape and abuse young children and then attempt to cover it. Much has changed since the time of Jesus, the Apostles, and the early Church fathers.

**jf1** · 03-05-2011, 10:56 AM

Originally Posted by Twist3dJok3r

I am Catholic, strongpostbrah is arguing on a faith based level whereas I prefer to make my arguments based on a logical level. I do not believe in magic, I believe in what I profess in the Nicene Creed. HOWEVER, I also believe in the symbolism of many elements of Catholicism.

what is logical about ANY of the catholic beliefs?
what is logical in believing in the nicene creed?
NOTHING!
the nicene creed is all about magic!

you believe that jesus "will come again to judge the living and the dead and that his kingdom will have no end"?
logic or magic?

**StrongPostBrah** · 03-05-2011, 10:59 AM

Originally Posted by Twist3dJok3r

I refer to it as your faith because each person's faith is different. I do not accept things that the Church teaches because I feel that the Church is wrong. It is certainly your right to follow blindly an institution that allows its clergy to rape and abuse young children and then attempt to cover it. Much has changed since the time of Jesus, the Apostles, and the early Church fathers.

So you aren't Catholic then? Even if you still identify as Catholic that's great man

But you confess on Sundays the same faith that I do! And you are loyal to the same Church I am. The Church is a hospital for sinners not a hotel for saints - we shouldn't leave Jesus because of Judas. For what some Priests and Bishops did I am sorry, but that doesn't make Catholicism evil. Much has changed, indeed, but the Truth has never changed and neither has the Church. Same Church for 2000 years. Truth never changes. Jesus Christ will be with us until the end of time, as scripture says.

**Twist3dJok3r** · 03-05-2011, 11:00 AM

Originally Posted by StrongPostBrah

You deny the transubstantiation yet you affirm in the Apostles creed the Incarnation of Christ? Brother, God works miracles and he can do whatever he likes

We confess this in the creed:
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church. - Obedience to the Church in other words. The Church teaches that the Eucharist is the body and blood of Our Lord.

Why should symbolism exclude everything else? The Eucharist is symbolic in many ways too.

I am starting to think you are trolling and pretending to be Catholic. Very few Catholics are so poorly Catechised.

No, the Nicene Creed does not specifically say obedience to the church, you just changed the wording. I believe the Church teaches that the body and blood is symbolic. Science can prove this...

**jf1** · 03-05-2011, 11:02 AM

i am with tom on this one!
you either buy into the catholic nonsense completely, or you trash it completely!
that is the logical approach.

it is either a valid religion or its not...there isnt an in between.
obviously if some parts are fake...the entire institution is a fraud.

admit it.
it isnt real.
its not really the body and blood and jesus isnt really god.

**StrongPostBrah** · 03-05-2011, 11:03 AM

Originally Posted by Twist3dJok3r

No, the Nicene Creed does not specifically say obedience to the church, you just changed the wording. I believe the Church teaches that the body and blood is symbolic. Science can prove this...

"I believe in one holy catholic and apostolic church"

In other words, you profess obedience to the Church. How else can you take it? Troll detector is slowly making more noise.

You may believe the Church teaches it is symbolic... but that doesn't make it true. The Church teaches it IS the body and blood. Look it up. Go ask your Priest. What you may believe is a different matter, but with God's grace you will believe. The Eucharist is not about the science. Just as science does not show us how God was made man. Accidents vs Substance brah.

Anyway, kinda obvious you're trolling now.

**Twist3dJok3r** · 03-05-2011, 11:04 AM

Originally Posted by StrongPostBrah

So you aren't Catholic then? Even if you still identify as Catholic that's great man

But you confess on Sundays the same faith that I do! And you are loyal to the same Church I am. The Church is a hospital for sinners not a hotel for saints - we shouldn't leave Jesus because of Judas. For what some Priests and Bishops did I am sorry, but that doesn't make Catholicism evil. Much has changed, indeed, but the Truth has never changed and neither has the Church. Same Church for 2000 years. Truth never changes. Jesus Christ will be with us until the end of time, as scripture says.

Thats the problem, the world has changed, but the Church has not. Truth DOES change, history can prove that. Jesus Christ is with us yes, but not literally right next to me in physical form.

You are the reason people turn away from the Church, your hard minded ways push people further away from God.

**Twist3dJok3r** · 03-05-2011, 11:06 AM

Originally Posted by jf1

i am with tom on this one!
you either buy into the catholic nonsense completely, or you trash it completely!
that is the logical approach.

it is either a valid religion or its not...there isnt an in between.
obviously if some parts are fake...the entire institution is a fraud.

admit it.
it isnt real.
its not really the body and blood and jesus isnt really god.

No one said anything was fake. I said it wasn't magic, and it wasn't literally flesh and blood in a scientific sense, but rather, a symbolic sense.

**StrongPostBrah** · 03-05-2011, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by Twist3dJok3r

Thats the problem, the world has changed, but the Church has not. Truth DOES change, history can prove that. Jesus Christ is with us yes, but not literally right next to me in physical form.

You are the reason people turn away from the Church, your hard minded ways push people farther away from God.

Truth cannot change. By definition. History cannot prove truth changes. History can show us that people either misunderstand or don't know the truth. Truth is not subjective. Truth transcends our opinions. It is unchanging. This is the attraction of the Church.

I don't believe I have pushed anybody away from the Church but if I have, let God judge me because always and everywhere I try my best to affirm what the Church teaches and to lead souls to Christ. But I believe that if you read over this conversation and take a look at what the Church teaches, you'll see that it's not my heart that is hardened.

**jf1** · 03-05-2011, 11:10 AM

Originally Posted by Twist3dJok3r

No one said anything was fake. That is quite a bold statement to make.

FAKE:
holy water
confession
transubstantiation

you said yourself that science can prove that transubstantiation does not occur!
it is fake.
catholics believe that the eucharist is transformed into the body and blood...literally.
that is fake.

the religion is a fraud.

Thread: catholic beliefs

Thread Tools

Search Thread

catholic beliefs

Similar Threads

Catholic beliefs / rituals

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions