Sick of low-carb diet

[BigPapaTdad]

Hey guys,

I've been at a big calorie deficit and have been cutting now for 3 months.
I don't think I can continuing depriving myself of carbs (i eat between 40g and 110grams most days).

My question is if I continue to get plenty of protein and a solid amount of good fats.... can I start eating like 200 carbs a day and still get to 10% aka the holy grail of BF% provided I continue to finish each day in a significant calorie deficit?

Thanks

[bdzemske]

if you up your carbs just up the cardio a bit.

i like to cycle my carbs so when you feel like you do now you can have a higher carb day to make it through another week of dieting.

i dont know how much you weigh atm but if you avy is still correct then i would say 200 carbs is ok atm just up the cardio. your body is used to going low carb so your not gain weight right away. like i said before your best bet would be to just up the cardio 5 to 10 mins or idk exactly what kind of cardio you are doing.

are you taking any supplements to aid in fat loss that could help BUT only if you diet is on point.

[qckrun97]

Hey guys,

I've been at a big calorie deficit and have been cutting now for 3 months.
I don't think I can continuing depriving myself of carbs (i eat between 40g and 110grams most days).

My question is if I continue to get plenty of protein and a solid amount of good fats.... can I start eating like 200 carbs a day and still get to 10% aka the holy grail of BF% provided I continue to finish each day in a significant calorie deficit?

Thanks

Slowly bring your carbs and see how your body reacts. It's always good to take a break... Eat at Maintenance for a few weeks.

40g of carbs is insane.

[BigPapaTdad]

if you up your carbs just up the cardio a bit.

i like to cycle my carbs so when you feel like you do now you can have a higher carb day to make it through another week of dieting.

i dont know how much you weigh atm but if you avy is still correct then i would say 200 carbs is ok atm just up the cardio. your body is used to going low carb so your not gain weight right away. like i said before your best bet would be to just up the cardio 5 to 10 mins or idk exactly what kind of cardio you are doing.

are you taking any supplements to aid in fat loss that could help BUT only if you diet is on point.

I'm 6'0 (have small legs....typical chest, arms, shoulders teen gym-goer, still working on correcting this body imbalance).

no supps other than whey protein. I feel like everyday at the moment is a struggle for me to not binge on white bread and sweets

Been cutting for 3 months and my motivation is slipping. I'm a genuine 12% with abs, could even be closer to 11%. I just want a tad more off the mid-section but man - this dieting is killing me.

[WonderPug]

Can you list your TDEE, your caloric intake, your intake of fat and protein, and also provide an example of a day's diet?

[BigPapaTdad]

Can you list your TDEE, your caloric intake, your intake of fat and protein, and also provide an example of a day's diet?

TDEE: 3100 cals
Current (average) daily cals: 1900
Typical macronutrients for the day: Protein 208 Carbs 40 Fat 80
Calories 1860

Typical day eating:

2 plain Chobani greek yoghurts
200grams frozen strawberries
Beef/Chicken Breast/Chicken Thigh
Natural Peanut Butter/cashews
fish oil
2-3 protein shakes
spinach
Low carb wholewheat bread
1 quest bar or equivalent
cheese
stevia
diet drink (redbull, coke or dr pepper)
tuna

[Jasonk282]

Your TDEE is 3100 and you're only eating around 1900. I hope that TDEE is a typo

[WonderPug]

TDEE: 3100 cals
Current (average) daily cals: 1900
Typical macronutrients for the day: Protein 208 Carbs 40 Fat 80
Calories 1860

Typical day eating:

2 plain Chobani greek yoghurts
200grams frozen strawberries
Beef/Chicken Breast/Chicken Thigh
Natural Peanut Butter/cashews
fish oil
2-3 protein shakes
spinach
Low carb wholewheat bread
1 quest bar or equivalent
cheese
stevia
diet drink (redbull, coke or dr pepper)
tuna

FYI: Your diet is not ketogenic, because of the very high protein intake (conversation to carbs is likely >50%), you're consuming low satiety sources of processed fast foods (the protein shakes), you appear to be consuming a large number of meals per day, which will increase appetite and reduce satiety, your caloric intake is acutely deficient, which will cause huge problems regardless of type of diet and your composition of foods strongly implies significant micronutrient deficits.


In other words, you appear to be doing just about everything wrong.

To start learning the basics about nutrition, please read the relevant stickies at the top of the nutrition forum as well as this:

COMPOSING A RATIONAL DIET

Advice on diet and nutrition is often based on myths and, even more so, on the marketing message of supplement companies and self-proclaimed diet gurus with agendas contrary to your interests. Please don't allow yourself, your health, your fitness goals or your wallet to be compromised by the prevalent misinformation. Learn the basics of nutrition and start engaging in healthy, rational dietary habits that can last a lifetime.

The first step is to discard biased advice on nutrition and diet, and, in its place, embrace simple logic:

Compose a diet that ensures micronutrient and macronutrient sufficiency, derived predominantly from whole and minimally processed foods if possible, with remaining caloric intake being largely discretionary within the bounds of common sense.

Caloric Intake

Energy balance is the primary dietary driver of body weight and it also impacts body composition. A chronic surplus of calories will result in increased body weight and a chronic deficit of calories will result in a loss of body weight.

In other words, in order to gain about one pound of tissue weight (as opposed to transient flux in water weight), you need to consume a total of about 3,500 calories more than you expend. And to lose about one pound of tissue weight, you have to do the opposite -- consume about 3,500 calories less than you expend.

Thus, the first step in constructing any rational diet is to get a sense of how many calories per day, on average, you should consume in order to progress towards your goals.

The average number of calories you expend per day -- called total daily energy expenditure (TDEE) -- is a function of your basal metabolic rate (BMR) and your average weekly activity level.

To estimate your BMR, it's important to have a sense of how much lean body mass (LBM) you carry. If you're not sure, post a photo or two and we can estimate your percentage body fat and, from this number and your total body weight, it's easy to estimate LBM by using the following formula:

LBM = body weight * (1 - percentage body fat)

To estimate BMR, use the the Katch-McArdle formula:

BMR = 370 + (9.8 * LBM in pounds)
or
BMR = 370 + (21.6 * LBM in kg)

The next step is to estimate average weekly activity using the following guidelines to calculate an activity factor (AF):

• 1.1 - 1.2 = Sedentary (desk job, and little formal exercise, this will be most of you students)

• 1.3 - 1.4 = Lightly Active (light daily activity and light exercise 1-3 days a week)

• 1.5 - 1.6 = Moderately Active (moderately daily Activity & moderate exercise 3-5 days a week)

• 1.7 - 1.8 = Very Active (physically demanding lifestyle & hard exercise 6-7 days a week)

• 1.9 - 2.2 = Extremely Active (athletes in endurance training or very hard physical job)

To estimate TDEE (the calories at which you will neither gain nor lose tissue weight), use the following formula:

TDEE = BMR * AF

Now that you've estimated your TDEE, it's important to refine that estimate empirically. To do so, consume an average amount of calories equal to estimated TDEE for two weeks, monitoring weight change. The results will confirm your actual TDEE.

Once you know your actually TDEE, set your caloric intake to match your goals as follows:

To maintain weight, consume an amount of calories equal to TDEE.
To lose weight, consume 10% to 20% less than TDEE.
To gain weight, consume 10% 20% more than TDEE.

Monitor weight change via the scale and also body composition via the mirror and how clothing fits, making adjustments as needed biweekly.


Macronutrient Intake

Ensure that your intake of macronutrients meets sufficiency (as defined below), with remaining macronutrient composition of the diet being largely a function of personal preference.

Ideally, ensure macronutrient sufficiency predominantly or, ideally, entirely from whole and minimally processed foods.

Protein: ~0.6 to ~0.8 grams per pound of bodyweight (or target/ideal weight in the obese) -- the highest amount justified by research.

Fat: ~0.45 grams per pound of bodyweight (or target/ideal weight in the obese) -- the lowest amount implied by clinical observation.

Remaining caloric budget: whatever mix of macronutrients you prefer -- as implied by research.

Micronutrient Intake

Take care and use good judgement in food selection and portioning to ensure that micronutrient sufficiency is reached without excessive intake from dietary sources and/or supplements.

As with macronutrient sufficiency, one should ensure micronutrient sufficiency predominantly or, ideally, entirely from whole and minimally processed foods.

To get a good sense of recommended intake of vitamins and minerals, please review this USDA guidelines webpage.

You'll find the following information particularly helpful:

Intakes: Recommended Intakes for Individuals

RDA and Adequate Intake for Vitamins and Elements

Upper Limit for Vitamins and Elements

Electrolytes and Water

Meal Timing, Composition & Frequency

The number of meals you consume, the timing of those meals and the macro/micronutrient composition of each meal is largely a function of personal preference.

While it might be "optimal" to consume more than one meal per day and less than 5 meals per day, the simple truth is that any difference that directly results from such fine tuning is likely too small to notice even after years of training.

Thus, base your meal timing, composition and frequency on your subjective preference such as to optimize your sense of energy, performance, satiety, palatability, convenience, social/business life and sustainability.

Do not hesitate to very all three factors from day to day as circumstance dictates. In other words, do not become a slave to routine, with inflexibility compromising your quality of life.


Pre & Post Workout Nutrition

What (if anything) you consume before and after your workout does not play a significant direct role in the outcome of your diet, beyond personal preference.

Why? Because what matters in terms of direct impact on outcomes is total daily intake of all nutrients.

Thus, you should optimize based on how you respond to training in a fed or fasted state, and based on your hungry after exercise. In other words, use common sense.


Supplements

Supplements are just that, products that are intended to supplement deficiencies in your diet. If your diet is properly composed then there's no need or unique benefit to using supplements.

If your diet isn't properly composed and, thus, you have deficiencies, try to fix your diet to cure such deficiencies though the consumption of whole and minimally processed foods. If you can't fix your diet, then use the lowest dose supplement(s) needed to cure any remaining deficiencies.

[BigPapaTdad]

Thanks for the helpful feedback mate!

"FYI: Your diet is not ketogenic, because of the very high protein intake (conversation to carbs is likely >50%), you're consuming low satiety sources of processed fast foods (the protein shakes), you appear to be consuming a large number of meals per day, which will increase appetite and reduce satiety, your caloric intake is acutely deficient, which will cause huge problems regardless of type of diet and your composition of foods strongly implies significant micronutrient deficits."

I usually only eat 2-3 meals a day. I don't put all of that stuff in a blender and eat it but I eat half of it in one sitting and the other half in another.

I always used freedieting calculator which told me that for "fat loss" I should consume 2400cals and for "extreme fat loss" I should consume 1800cals. The 3000cal figure I just gave you for my TDEE (which is assume is the same figure as your "maintenance" figure) was from IIFYMs website.

I've been eating at this deficit now for almost 3 months and have lost 40lbs and close to zero muscle and zero strength.

It's only now that im starting to get mentally sick of dieting - i just want to eat more carbs.

I shall lower the number of protein shakes im having to 1 a day.

What foods do you suggest incorporating for more micronutrients?

Cheers!

[AFC96]

If you are in that "extreme" deficit. I am sure you will lose muscle.

[BigPapaTdad]

If you are in that "extreme" deficit. I am sure you will lose muscle.

Which is absolutely not what I want to do, but it's been nearly 3 months and it just hasn't happened yet and neither have any of my lifts gone down.

[AFC96]

Which is absolutely not what I want to do, but it's been nearly 3 months and it just hasn't happened yet and neither have any of my lifts gone down.

that means your TDEE is not 3000. Its lower than that. 1000+ deficit for an extended period will make you lose muscle.

[BigPapaTdad]

How should I go about upping my cals to a healthy deficit considering i've been at about 1900 cals and less for 3 months?

Wouldnt my leptin levels be all ****ed up? I'm scared that if I go to say 2300cals... I'll just gain a **** tonne of fat

[BigPapaTdad]

that means your TDEE is not 3000. Its lower than that. 1000+ deficit for an extended period will make you lose muscle.

That's what I expected. I workout every day only really have a rest day when Im really sore or for whatever reason can't make it to the gym (id say id have about 1 day off a fortnight on average?), I don't train my muscles to failure very regularly which is something I used to do all the time. Once I stopped training to failure ALL my lifts went up. Bench went from like 1 rep max of 210lbs to just under 320lbs (319.67lbs to be precise - we do kgs in Aus). It's also allowed me to be able to lift 6-7 days a week. I do like a split 1. back and biceps, 2. shoulders, legs and abs 3. chest and triceps.
I did a cut last year and lost heaps of mass (muscle and fat) and strength. I put this down to changing my training to higher reps and shorter rests between sets and not getting enough fat or protein during my cut.
This year all i've done different is eaten more fat and protein, and continued to lift heavy in the 5-10 rep range with the occasional 15 rep burn set.
I do 30-60 mins LISS twice a week and HIIT once a week.

I realise most/all of this doesn't really make sense from a physiological standpoint but it's worked physically just not mentally.

[Jasonk282]

Have you taken measurements to know for sure you have not lost any size?
Have you taken body fat measurements as well?

[acrobat2000]

WonderPug

Personally I don't think gluconogenesis is a energy efficient process so if eating too much protein is keeping him out of ketosis not too much carbs, I would say go forward…

If it were efficient, your body would use it more in starvation states, but it doesn't other than to provide for a few select organ systems that absolutely require it completely or partially. Instead your body in starvation states uses ketogenic processes preferentially because those are efficient.

inefficient processes is good for weight loss, and on top of that maintaining protein intake will help maintain muscle mass.

I continue to disagree with people on this forum about limiting protein intake for a keotgenic diet. Now if your eating such large quantities with the potential for renal damage, that would be another issue.

[respawn]

WonderPug

Personally I don't think gluconogenesis is a energy efficient process so if eating too much protein is keeping him out of ketosis not too much carbs, I would say go forward…

If it were efficient, your body would use it more in starvation states, but it doesn't other than to provide for a few select organ systems that absolutely require it completely or partially. Instead your body in starvation states uses ketogenic processes preferentially because those are efficient.

inefficient processes is good for weight loss, and on top of that maintaining protein intake will help maintain muscle mass.

I continue to disagree with people on this forum about limiting protein intake for a keotgenic diet. Now if your eating such large quantities with the potential for renal damage, that would be another issue.

Sighh, Maybe save what you do or don;t think for another forum until you bring something of credibility

Excess protein can send you out of ketosis. Like Alan said its a form of glucose for the body. *****://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnCJJD4ior0

[runningthegym]

WonderPug answered this thread perfectly

[AFC96]

Sighh, Maybe save what you do or don;t think for another forum until you bring something of credibility

Excess protein can send you out of ketosis. Like Alan said its a form of glucose for the body.

FTFY

Haven't people hear the saying "excess protein is expensive carbs."

[respawn]

FTFY

Haven't people hear the saying "excess protein is expensive carbs."

Cheers, I am on my laptop and I have the [youtube] whatever it is saved on my other computer. I don't know it off by heart.

[acrobat2000]

Sighh, Maybe save what you do or don;t think for another forum until you bring something of credibility

Excess protein can send you out of ketosis. Like Alan said its a form of glucose for the body. *****://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnCJJD4ior0

Ya that's exactly what I said. Then I said since gluconeogenesis is inefficient, that's not a problem if it's coming from a protein source. I also agree that after a certain point excess protein most likely doesn't help with muscle maintenance building, but if you're restricting to say 1000-1400 calories a day or so trying to lose weight, I then you're going to eat mostly protein rather than fat.


btw...Save what I think? Why don't you save what you think instead.

[respawn]

Ya that's exactly what I said. Then I said since gluconeogenesis is inefficient, that's not a problem if it's coming from a protein source. I also agree that after a certain point excess protein most likely doesn't help with muscle maintenance building, but if you're restricting to say 1000-1400 calories a day or so trying to lose weight, I then you're going to eat mostly protein rather than fat.


btw...Save what I think? Why don't you save what you think instead.

When above in that post did I say that I think anything?

What idiot restricts their protein that low or advocates it? do you? why mention it. Someone might see what you wrote and think people do it and try do it themselves.

Regarding excess protein. Eric Helms in his review with AA.

[Mrpb]

I continue to disagree with people on this forum about limiting protein intake for a ketogenic diet. Now if your eating such large quantities with the potential for renal damage, that would be another issue.

Isn't the purpose of a ketogenic diet to be in ketosis? If you're eating too much protein to be in ketosis, it's not a ketogenic diet.

If you think people should eat more protein you're recommending a low carb/high protein diet, not a ketogenic diet.

I don't have a problem with that but why would you call it a ketogenic diet if it isn't?

[WonderPug]

Personally I don't think gluconogenesis is a energy efficient process so if eating too much protein is keeping him out of ketosis not too much carbs, I would say go forward…

Your "personal" beliefs to not change the reality of human physiology.