Why does it seem like Cardio is so complex?!

**dieter24** · 11-08-2002, 12:33 AM

To me Cardio should be pretty easy to understand but there are so many contradictions on this site and others on what the best kind of cardio is to do and how hard you should do it and for how long and at what time of day...

From what I've read most "professionals" believe the best time to run would be in the morning on an empty stomach but logically I would think it wouldn't matter if you ran in the morning, during the day or at night. You should end up burning the same amount no matter when you do it and I don't think how much food you have on your stomach should be a factor. Why would it matter if you burn food or fat first if you end up eating the same amount of calories anyways?! Mathematically it should come out the same either way!

As for intensity, I would think the higher you can get your heart rate the better as long as you are in relatively good shape and you aren't risking your health by pushing yourself. From what I've read the higher your heart rate the more calories you'll burn over a 24 hr period. I don't know why 90% of the people at a gym just seem to go at a leasurely pace and why they have a so called "fat burning" heart rat range when it supposedly burns less overall fat!!! If people want to not work as hard fine but I don't see how it should help burn more fat unless you just can't push yourself to run for the amount of time it would take to finish a good run.

Next is time, which seems to be a highly debateble subject. I've read on here and from other sites and "professionals" that some people think an hr is too much while some think 45 minutes is too much while others even think 30 minutes is too much. Most people think three days a week is about the right amount but even that can vary greatly. Look at this guy on fitren.com. He is obviously a very massive, cut guy (his bf% is 3.7% and he claims to be completely drug free including ephedra based products) and he believes everybody can run hard for 45 minutes to an hr a day for six to seven days a week with out losing muscle!!! All he says is you have to eat right and that you'll lose the most fat that way. How many of you believe that?!!

It's just so confusing with all the contradictions. I know some of you feel that different ways of running should be better for certain people but I would think it shouldn't even matter what kind of running you're doing as long as you pay attention to your heart rate. I also think mixing it up shouldn't be a big deal if you keep increasing the intensity enough to where you keep your heart rate high. I've been on a elipitical machine for a long time now and I just increase the resitance or go faster if my heart rate starts going down. Right now I'm doing a hill mode at level 12 out of 20 going about 180rpm for thirty minutes with a slight warm up but not much of one and a slight warm down. I average about a 170 hr. I run three days a week. Right now I'm bulking so I wasn't planning to do more. When I was cutting I ran three days a week for 40 minutes at a slightly slower pace so I could get through my workout with the extended time but my hr was close to the same. I ran in the morning on an empty stomach when I was running for 40 minutes and I run at night now. I did not lose any noticable muscle running this way but I would have preferred to lose more fat in a faster amount of time than I did...

If you'd like please comment on where you guys think I might be wrong and why you think you're way is best...

**dieter24** · 11-08-2002, 09:02 PM

bump

**MsFit** · 11-09-2002, 10:57 AM

Originally posted by dieter24
bump

into a wall?

**dieter24** · 11-09-2002, 12:14 PM

yeah and it hurt too!

**tofu_guru** · 11-09-2002, 01:45 PM

The US government's latest recommendations are 1 hour of cardio a day, and that's what I recommend as well.

Bodybuilders, regular folk, anyone can benefit from this.

-The Tofu Guru-

**Mykal** · 11-10-2002, 03:58 AM

cardio is complex because when was the last time the human body was called simple

**devl** · 11-10-2002, 04:52 PM

Of course the governments never been wrong.

**dieter24** · 11-10-2002, 09:47 PM

I still think they could test certain ratios to see on average what works best.

**Malgavito** · 11-10-2002, 11:05 PM

I've heard that
high intensity burns more cals
but that even moderate intensity for longer durations burns more fat.

so for getting in shape or healthier they say intensity

but for fatburning longer

also time of day matters
and before/after lifting

**tofu_guru** · 11-12-2002, 06:45 AM

As a nutritionist-in-training that understands why our hospitals are so overcrowded today... I personally wish people would stop wondering about cardio and start doing it. It doesn't matter when. It's not going to prevent gains - I know plenty of rather large (read - quite big) people who do a LOT of cardiovascular exercise.

#1 killer in America today? Heart disease. Best protection against a heart attack? Cardiovascular exercise, period.

Mix a good cardio program with a good lifting program and you've got yourself a winning combination.

-The Tofu Guru-

**fitforlife** · 11-12-2002, 07:26 AM

Cardio is probably one of the most contradicted topics on this forum. I am like you in the area that a lot of people have a lot of fews on the subject. But, I am going to tell you the RIGHT answer. And you are not going to like it.

Here it is....Drum role pleeze.......

Whatever works for you.

Told you you weren't going to like it. You see, no one is the same. One might have better results from going for an hour at a slow pace. The other might get good results from shorter more intense blasts. The reason cardio is so complex is that there is no RIGHT answer. Personally, I like shorter, high intensity training. I run on the tread mill 4 days a week after I lift at 8-9mph for 20-25 minutes. Then, 2 days out of the week are strictly cardio at 30-40 minutes at the same pace. I like higher intensity because a) I don't have 45-60 minutes to do cardio and b) cardio sucks! I just want to get it over with. I have obtained good results from this training schedule. Will it work for you? Maybe, maybe not. Try all types i.e. low intensity, high intensity, HIIT, or mix them up. But, like someone said above, just do it. Whether you are obtimizing your fat burning mode or not, cardio will improve your overall health and appearance no matter what type you do, guaranteed.

**crimson_ice** · 11-12-2002, 07:39 AM

So.........umm.......forgive my ignorance, and I somehow, someone already kinda answered it already, but I can't help but ask. So is it possible to gain mass and lose body fat (not weight) at the same time????

I'm really curious cause I have been confused for quite some time now.

**crimson_ice** · 11-12-2002, 07:40 AM

Originally posted by crimson_ice
So.........umm.......forgive my ignorance, and somehow I know that someone already kinda answered it, but I can't help but ask. So is it possible to gain mass and lose body fat (not weight) at the same time???? I'm really curious cause I have been confused for quite some time now.

**tofu_guru** · 11-12-2002, 07:46 AM

Question:
"So is it possible to gain mass and lose body fat (not weight) at the same time????"

Answer:
Yes.

Yes, it is possible, I've been doing this for the past 12 months myself. Not only is it possible, I see it as much healthier than the "bulking - cutting - bulking" cycle most bodybuilders use. The exercise physiologists at my university seem to agree, and it works for me.

I'm not a professional, I don't compete - I do it to feel and look good. But as a simple answer to your question, yes it is possible to lose fat and gain muscle at the same time. In fact, it's the healthiest way to go about doing it - in my opinion.

-The Tofu Guru-

**fitforlife** · 11-12-2002, 07:51 AM

Originally posted by tofu_guru
Question:
"So is it possible to gain mass and lose body fat (not weight) at the same time????"

Answer:
Yes.

Yes, it is possible, I've been doing this for the past 12 months myself. Not only is it possible, I see it as much healthier than the "bulking - cutting - bulking" cycle most bodybuilders use. The exercise physiologists at my university seem to agree, and it works for me.

I'm not a professional, I don't compete - I do it to feel and look good. But as a simple answer to your question, yes it is possible to lose fat and gain muscle at the same time. In fact, it's the healthiest way to go about doing it - in my opinion.

-The Tofu Guru-

I agree with Tofu Guru. Is it possible. But, the reason why it is not popular to do it this way is that it takes longer. The QUICKEST way to build muscle and get ripped is to bulk, then cut. But, like Tofu Guru said, if you want slower results, go for it.

**tofu_guru** · 11-12-2002, 10:22 AM

I don't think it's harder, I think it's easier - because you don't have to constantly adopt different "cutting" diets and "bulking" diets and such. Does it take longer? Yes. Is it healthier? According to every single exercise physiologist and nutritionist I have spoken to both at ASU and otherwise, yes, it is much healthier to gain lean muscle without using 'cycling' of bulking/cutting diets, but rather to simply adopt a healthy diet/lifestyle that you can adhere to year-long.

I'm not bodybuilding to put on maximum size in a minimum amount of time, though. I'm doing it to look good, feel great, and improve the quality of my life.

To each their own, I suppose.

-The Tofu Guru-

**fitforlife** · 11-12-2002, 10:28 AM

Originally posted by tofu_guru
I don't think it's harder, I think it's easier - because you don't have to constantly adopt different "cutting" diets and "bulking" diets and such. Does it take longer? Yes. Is it healthier? According to every single exercise physiologist and nutritionist I have spoken to both at ASU and otherwise, yes, it is much healthier to gain lean muscle without using 'cycling' of bulking/cutting diets, but rather to simply adopt a healthy diet/lifestyle that you can adhere to year-long.

I'm not bodybuilding to put on maximum size in a minimum amount of time, though. I'm doing it to look good, feel great, and improve the quality of my life.

To each their own, I suppose.

-The Tofu Guru-

I don't understand what you mean by "healthier". Just because someone is bulking, does not mean they are eating like a pig. When someone bulks, they are simply eating a few hundred calories more than maintainance. Yes, bulking to some means eating whatever you want. But, when bulking is done correctly, you are simply eating slightly more than your body needs, but still healthy foods. When the excess calories are not used, they will slowly turn to fat. But, you burn that fat off when you cut. In my opinion, you are still healthy though.

**tofu_guru** · 11-12-2002, 10:35 AM

It's the 'feast or famine' cycle that it puts your body through, the constant change of caloric intake.

I will see if I can locate some research articles on why this is harmful, and when I find them I will gladly post the articles or links to them.

In general, though, use common sense - what seems healthier, eating a balanced diet year round or 'cycling' bulking and cutting diets? What seems more natural, more in-sync with your own natural rhythms?

-The Tofu Guru-

**fitforlife** · 11-12-2002, 10:47 AM

I am not trying to encourage a debate (so don't take this the wrong way), but sometimes cycling workouts AND diets/nutrition will spur muscle growth. I definetly agree with you on staying healthy year round, but I really don't think that cycling between bulking and cutting diets will do your body harm. Usually, bulking gives you a mental break from cutting. If you stay strict year round, sooner than later you are going to burn out. I know that your goal is probably different than mine though. I am trying to put on as much muscle as I can when bulking while still maintaining a healthy bf%. When I cut, I simply try to rid myself of all the unnecessary fat. You seem to be bodybulking to stay in shape. No problem with that at all. I just think that you have to adopt the eating lifestyle that best fits your goals. Post those articles when you get a chance. I am really interrested in reading them.

**tofu_guru** · 11-12-2002, 10:51 AM

Will do, I'm at work currently and just idly surfing the web in my spare time.

-The Tofu Guru-

**tofu_guru** · 11-12-2002, 11:54 AM

I can't find exactly what I'm looking for on the 'net, and the few articles I have read aren't geared toward a bodybuilding audience... I'm going to poke around at school and talk to a few of my professors, I'm fairly certain they can help me get ahold of the material I'm after.

Until then,

-The Tofu Guru-

**devl** · 11-12-2002, 01:54 PM

Tofu,

You say it is possible to bulk and cut at the same time. Something I've heard as well from the guys at ast-ss sports science. I was just wondering what you use for a workout program.

Also, what is your diet like?

**tofu_guru** · 11-12-2002, 02:10 PM

My diet is pretty much a 40-40-20 balance, sometimes I drop fats as low as 45-45-10. I keep carbs and protein in pretty much equal ratios, but ALL of my carbs are extremely low GI carbs - whole oats, whole wheat, etc., etc.

My workout program right now fits into a hectic schedule of full-time work and full-time school. I do cardio for an hour at a minimum of five days a week, keeping my heart rate between 120-150bpm during this exercise. I do a *very* simple split of upper and lower body exercises, each twice a week. It's not rocket-science but it works well for me.

I am of the opinion that bodybuilders tend to make things more complicated on themselves than it has to be, and with all of the different opinions floating around out there on everything from diet to workout intensity, my favorite advice to people is simply to tell them to:

1) Stick to the tried and true, tested methods...
2) Do what works for you individually!

I don't believe there is one-size-fits all magic bullet to maximum gains; we're all genetically different.

But can you lost fat and gain muscle at the same time? Yes, 100% yes, no question about it. I don't like getting my bodyfat very high at all, which was originally what had me shy away from the "bulking/cutting" cycles - and when I did my own research, I found quite a bit to support my thoughts on this. If I find it (I'm going to check at school) I will post some of my findings.

A typical day for me might go:

Meal 1) Whole oats and protein powder in a shake
Meal 2) Large green salad with chicken or fish
Meal 3) Whole-wheat high-fiber bread w/ tuna or turkey salad (I have a high protein, low-fat recepie for this I can share if you ever wish)
Meal 4) Piece of fruit, handfull of nuts like almonds or walnuts
Meal 5) Whole oats and protein powder in a shake
Meal 6) Green salad w/ some form of meat

I put flax seeds in each of my protein shakes for a total of about 2 tablespoons of flax oil every day.

-The Tofu Guru-

**crimson_ice** · 11-13-2002, 04:52 AM

Interesting, tofu. So it is really 100% possible to lose fat (not weight) and gain mass at the same time...but it takes longer....right??? SO exaclt what kind of work out do you do??? Do you lift heavy or moderate? How many reps and sets do you do?

My main goal is to have lean and cut muscles, I don't intend to become bulky at all.

**crimson_ice** · 11-13-2002, 05:08 AM

Do I also have to cut down the food I eat in order to lose the fat???

**tofu_guru** · 11-13-2002, 08:10 AM

Yes, it's 100% possible to both lean up and gain muscle at the same time.

I've been doing it for over a year now. It seems to be working for me.

I lift moderate to heavy, as I was originally taught. Basic 8-10 reps, 3 sets each on the major bodyparts, I exercise my abs and calfs a bit differently - higher reps. (Everyone and their dog has an opinion about that; I do what works for me.)

If you have any specific questions, feel free to ask or PM me.

-The Tofu Guru-

**crimson_ice** · 11-14-2002, 01:34 AM

Do I also have to cut down the food I eat in order to lose the fat???

**tofu_guru** · 11-14-2002, 12:54 PM

Not sure what you mean... I don't know what you're eating to begin with. Here's what I do - eat. If you notice you're gaining after a week, cut back. If you're losing, eat more... eventually you'll find the 'happy medium' of calories you need to build and maintain muscle while burning fat s l o w l y through cardio and such. It takes longer but in the end I think it's more maintainable, easier to have the same physique "year round", and healthier.

-The Tofu Guru-

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Why does it seem like Cardio is so complex?!

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