Maybe too much...???

**Biriba** · 04-04-2002, 02:03 AM

I want to know if i am overtrainnig, even tough i think i am not.
I train every body part separetly and once a week, with 3 days of rest in the wekk.

My doubt is the volume i do for each session... i will give the example of my chest session:

3 x 20-15 bench press warm-up

6 x 2(90%)+6(70%)+6(40%) bench press *this is the main exercise, my trainner call it contrast training

3 x 6 inclined bench press
3 x 6 pectoral fly
3 x 6 flat dumbell press

Is this too much or its ok? I really need all ths volume to fell my pecs tired, but i am afraid to produce catabolic effects doing too much, what do you think????

**D&G** · 04-04-2002, 02:10 AM

catabolic effects come from the workout lasting too long, depending on your intensity, amount of rest you get and quality of nutrition i dont think that would be overtraining

**Biriba** · 04-04-2002, 02:14 AM

this session takes me 50 minutes more or less, i know catabolic effects start after 1 hour not?

but doing too much may not hinder the growth?? after this session i could do even more series and reps, so how to know when you have done enough?

**D&G** · 04-04-2002, 02:20 AM

50 mins is fine but don't go over that.

Experience tells you when you've had enough - can you do more reps the next week? are you gaining? suffering any overtraining effects? (joint soreness, insomnia, catching a cold)

15 working sets may be considered too much for some but it really comes down to the individual - I would not go above 12 usually unless using lighter weights

Personally I would not train with such low reps every week - you will hit a plateau, you really shouldn't go for maximal lifts every week, every fourth week or so do all the sessions with light weights and go for higher reps so the muscle don't get too used to low reps.

You might want to check out Dorian's article on reps and sets on this site or a .pdf file called overtraining which can be found on the yahoo home page of supertraining (written by Mel Siff).

**Slater** · 04-04-2002, 03:17 AM

Is it really better to stay under 5o minutes? Personally I train 2-2,5 hours 4-5 times a week. I don�t seem to be suffering any over training effects - at least I�m pretty sure I�m not

(My intensity is pretty normal) I do gain and I feel good when I�m done. Is this just individuality or am I really over training without noticing it?

**Christopher** · 04-04-2002, 03:34 AM

Originally posted by Slater
Is it really better to stay under 5o minutes? Personally I train 2-2,5 hours 4-5 times a week. I don�t seem to be suffering any over training effects - at least I�m pretty sure I�m not (My intensity is pretty normal) I do gain and I feel good when I�m done. Is this just individuality or am I really over training without noticing it?

your really overtraining without noticing it, you could do alot better if you cut back the volume to 50 minute sessions

**D&G** · 04-04-2002, 03:36 AM

Yes, you are vastly overytaining - everyone suffers the effects of cortisol - if you are a beginner you can get away with it for a while but don't expect to make gains for long.

Why do you need so long exactly?, how many sets/exercises actually take that long.

**Slater** · 04-04-2002, 05:02 AM

Hmm� I�ve bin training for about 2,5 years now and I�m still gaining just fine�

I�ve split my program into three:

(I�m not that much into the names of the exercises and muscle groups)

1. Both upper and lower back, breast and neck
2. Abs, shoulders and triceps
3. Legs, biceps and forearms

1. Lower back: 2 exercises of 4 sets
Upper back: 3 exercises of 4 sets
Breast: 4 exercises of 4 sets � sometimes 5 sets
All sides of neck: All together 16 sets
(The same machine � 4 sets to the four sides)

2. Abs: 5 exercises of 4 or 5 sets
Shoulders: 4-5 exercises of 4 sets
Triceps: 3 exercises of 4-5 sets

3. Legs: 8 exercises of 4 sets (Front thigh: 2 exercises.
Back thigh: 2 exercises.
Inner and outer thigh: 1 exercise.. Calves: 2 exercises.)
Biceps: 3 exercises of 4 sets.
Forearms: 2 exercises of 4 sets.

Maybe I just need to get the intensity up�?

By the way what exactly is catabolic effects?

**big rob** · 04-04-2002, 05:32 AM

Originally posted by Slater
Hmm� I�ve bin training for about 2,5 years now and I�m still gaining just fine�

I�ve split my program into three:

(I�m not that much into the names of the exercises and muscle groups)

1. Both upper and lower back, breast and neck
2. Abs, shoulders and triceps
3. Legs, biceps and forearms

1. Lower back: 2 exercises of 4 sets
Upper back: 3 exercises of 4 sets
Breast: 4 exercises of 4 sets � sometimes 5 sets
All sides of neck: All together 16 sets
(The same machine � 4 sets to the four sides)

2. Abs: 5 exercises of 4 or 5 sets
Shoulders: 4-5 exercises of 4 sets
Triceps: 3 exercises of 4-5 sets

3. Legs: 8 exercises of 4 sets (Front thigh: 2 exercises.
Back thigh: 2 exercises.
Inner and outer thigh: 1 exercise.. Calves: 2 exercises.)
Biceps: 3 exercises of 4 sets.
Forearms: 2 exercises of 4 sets.

Maybe I just need to get the intensity up�?

By the way what exactly is catabolic effects?

I'm not quite sure if i understood you right, but are you saying you do almost 56 sets on back, chest, and neck day?

if so you've got to be overtraining, my workout only consist of about 8 to 12 sets

**Slater** · 04-04-2002, 05:38 AM

Well I never do 5 sets in alle the breast exercises...so some place between 52 and 54 sets....

**Travis Stenersn** · 04-04-2002, 06:14 AM

If you don't suffer from any signs of overtraining, than you aren't overtraining. Since you have been doing this for many years, you should have noticed signs by now.

I suspect, though, that if you decreased duration to about an hour, you would gain faster.

Protein starts to contribute to energy demands to a greater degree about 90 minutes into an exercise bout(at all times, all sources of energy are being used, it's just there might be more emphasis on one than another depending on duration and intensity of exercise).

You're doing 60 sets on arms day? Jesus man... Ian King(australian strength coach) recommends TWELVE work sets in a workout! You're doing five times that much. Many people don't do 60 sets total in an entire training week. I personally keep worksets to about 18 to 22 per workout.

**RAEKWON201** · 04-04-2002, 08:00 AM

TAKE OUT THE FLAT BENCH OR THE DB BENCH.

**Kutulus** · 04-04-2002, 08:05 AM

take out those flies man, you don't need those...

id say your hella overtraining if you use max intensity...

but im guessing your not using max intensity otherwise you'd have the **** beaten out of you...

try this out, it works for me:

- incline bench (3sets)
- flat bench (3sets)
- pec-dec (3sets)

i don't usually do a warm up because i like to use all my energy on the first lift and get maximum poundage...

try this with just 9 total sets and keep it under 25 minutes, and you'll be going up in weight in no time

**Slater** · 04-04-2002, 08:44 AM

I�m not sure of how to define max intensity, but I don�t rest too long between each set � just so that my partner can do his set�not sure how many seconds that is. But if I do 4 sets I probably do about 60% in the first, 80% in the second and then I go all the way in the last 2 sets. So it�s like 12-15 reps in the first set, 8-10 in the second, and some place between 1 and 6 in the third and fourth. Of course I vary it so that I don�t do to low reps to often.
Not that I�m not gaining now but I�ll try your proposals out anyway.

Thanks a lot for your advise�

**Biriba** · 04-04-2002, 08:46 AM

Ok i will try to do that...

Probably i just need to increase the intensity and then i will not be able to do all these sets...

**Biriba** · 04-04-2002, 08:54 AM

By the way, Slater are you sure you do 54 sets in 1 day of trainning?

I spend 50 minutes doing my 15 sets workout, so you must stay all the afternoon in your gym in order to do this.

**Slater** · 04-04-2002, 09:01 AM

Well it is as I said earlier:

1. Lower back: 2 exercises of 4 sets
Upper back: 3 exercises of 4 sets
Breast: 4 exercises of 4 sets � sometimes 5 sets
All sides of neck: All together 16 sets
(The same machine � 4 sets to the four sides)

2. Abs: 5 exercises of 4 or 5 sets
Shoulders: 4-5 exercises of 4 sets
Triceps: 3 exercises of 4-5 sets

3. Legs: 8 exercises of 4 sets (Front thigh: 2 exercises.
Back thigh: 2 exercises.
Inner and outer thigh: 1 exercise.. Calves: 2 exercises.)
Biceps: 3 exercises of 4 sets.
Forearms: 2 exercises of 4 sets.

It takes some place between 1 hour and 50 minutes and 2 hours and 45 minutes�depends on the intensity...

The only difference is that you use just a little more time for each set than I do:

You: 50/15 = 3,33 minutes per set
Me: 150/52 = 2,88 minutes per set

**Geeza** · 04-04-2002, 01:13 PM

lol I dont even know what catabolic means.

I do two muscle groups per work out and finish with abs. I do 12 sets for each muscle except abs. I only have about a minutes rest between sets( how long it takes my training partner)and it takes me about an hour to finish sometimes more because my sets are slow and concentraited, and even then I have to do the abs. I dont do any more sets or reps than the average person on this site so I am NOT overtraining.

my point being just because you take longer than some people doesnt mean the workout was less effeicient.

btw i do 3x12

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