Gaining Fat (Clean Bulk) I feel...

[paynerjay]

Looking for some input here. I started a clean bulk about 7 weeks ago. I've put on 7lbs on, so 1lb a week. My Body fat is around 12.5%, but I look like I feel fat. Is this normal, does it sound like I'm on the right track? I stopped cardio entirely, so I'm not sure if I should include some cardio. I guess watching my body fat % is the way to guage. This is my first ever bulk, so I think I'm going about it the right way. I'm 188lbs and I'm eating around 3200-3500 calories a day, I'm on a 40/40/20 diet. Should I lower the calories to maintenance on non work out days?

[freebirdmac]

Give it more time. Bloating from the extra carbs can make it feel/look worse than it really is. In a few weeks if you still feel you've been gaining fat too fast, just drop the cals down a bit. Then see what happens after a few months. But go by how you look and feel. Bf measurements aren't accurate enough. You may do some up and down cal tweaking throughout the bulk.

How are your lifts? Going up? Making progress?

[ectoBgone]

If you have been in a caloric deficit for a while and then switch to above maintenance levels, it's normal to get a quick jump the first couple of weeks. It should have leveled out by now though and if you continue to gain a pound per week, I don't think that's a good sign if you are trying to make lean gains. Nitro-tech supplements aside, 52lbs per year of gains isn't in the cards for you.

It looks like you have dropped a bucket load of weight. Congratulations on that. Do you know what your caloric intake was at the time and how fast you were dropping the weight? A good rule of thumb is to eat 500 calories below maintenance levels to lose a pound of fat per week, so if you add about 700-800 calories to that number, it would be a good place to start for a "clean bulk". Take regular waist measurements in addition to your scale measurements and that will help you get an idea of whether or not your fat levels are going up. Most attempts to measure bodyfat levels at home with scales or calipers are likely just to confuse or stress you out more than anything. Scale, tape measure, mirror, and a carefully monitored diet with a calorie and macro tracking database like The Daily Plate are the best tools for your goals IMO. Also, take your scale weight with a grain of salt since it can fluctuate quite a bit. For best results, I weigh myself the same exact time of day (first thing in the morning) on the same day of the week, once per week.

Good luck.

[Meatpants]

Its called a bulk for a reason. Your going to pick up some fat. As was mentioned switching from cutting to bulking will result in some quick gain of weight up front. Some of this is water. Relax and enjoy it. Bulking should be enjoyed in my opinion. With your diet, how are you tracking your calories? You said your eating around x. Usually that means somebody is guestimating, and this can get you off course quickly. There is also nothing wrong with a bit of cardio to keep the fat in check if you feel you need it. As fat as cals on off days, I tend to drop them slightl, but still stay above mait. The body is recovering on these days, and can use them.

[Sol Rosenberg]

Bulking should be enjoyed in my opinion.

Thank you!!!!! Repped!!!!

Bulking for me is characterized by me cleaning out the refrigerator every few hours, and talking with my mouth full while eating about how much fat I'm going to lose once I start cutting.

[Meatpants]

Thank you!!!!! Repped!!!!

Bulking for me is characterized by me cleaning out the refrigerator every few hours, and talking with my mouth full while eating about how much fat I'm going to lose once I start cutting.

Lol. I wouldn't go that far, but to each there own.

[lanolar]

If you feel like your gaining too much fat, then slightly lower your calories.

[JOHN GARGANI]

one pound a week is simply too much on a clean bulk....at that rate, you would gain 50 pounds in a year!!!

hardly clean.....

at your age and stage, MAX lean weight you will add in a year, is maybe 5 pounds...maybe......I'm talking training naturally.....


with that in mind, you have some tweaking to do with your diet.....it sounds fine to me, however, as suggested by everyone else, you have to lessen it....

I am ASSUMING: your calorie counting is correct: all too many times, we are NOT correct, so, that 3500 might be closer to 4000.......tighten up on the amounts and numbers and then tweak it down a notch....

[beachguy498]

It can take a while to fine-tune a bulk. When I started my latest one in May, I wrote down everything I ate until I had an accurate idea of what my caloric intake was. I'm not really gaining any weight right now, I'm a bit fuller from creatine. I do cardio 3x a week for a 1/2 hour each time. I'd call it a fairly clean bulk right now.

BG

[ironwill2008]

If you feel like your gaining too much fat, then slightly lower your calories.

I am ASSUMING: your calorie counting is correct: all too many times, we are NOT correct, so, that 3500 might be closer to 4000.......tighten up on the amounts and numbers and then tweak it down a notch....

^^^^These. It's just that simple.

[JTraining]

one pound a week is simply too much on a clean bulk....at that rate, you would gain 50 pounds in a year!!!

hardly clean.....

at your age and stage, MAX lean weight you will add in a year, is maybe 5 pounds...maybe......I'm talking training naturally.....


with that in mind, you have some tweaking to do with your diet.....it sounds fine to me, however, as suggested by everyone else, you have to lessen it....

I am ASSUMING: your calorie counting is correct: all too many times, we are NOT correct, so, that 3500 might be closer to 4000.......tighten up on the amounts and numbers and then tweak it down a notch....

In all fairness I think 1 lb per week during a bulk as a max cap is reasonable. You state that if you bulk a pound a week that would be 50 pounds in a year but who ever said it was good to bulk for more than 15 weeks at a time? During a cut the accepted weight loss is 1 lb per week. I would never dream of cutting for a whole year....I would end up losing 40 lbs of muscle......but I have no problem losing 1 lb per week for 10 -15 weeks.

I think many bodybuilders don't gain muscle because they don't let themselves gain any weight. As soon as the scale says they gained a few pounds they freak out and cut calories and stop the anabolic muscle building process.

You can't grow if your diet does not allow you to gain weight.......period!

[Meatpants]

In all fairness I think 1 lb per week during a bulk as a max cap is reasonable. You state that if you bulk a pound a week that would be 50 pounds in a year but who ever said it was good to bulk for more than 15 weeks at a time? During a cut the accepted weight loss is 1 lb per week. I would never dream of cutting for a whole year....I would end up losing 40 lbs of muscle......but I have no problem losing 1 lb per week for 10 -15 weeks.

I think many bodybuilders don't gain muscle because they don't let themselves gain any weight. As soon as the scale says they gained a few pounds they freak out and cut calories and stop the anabolic muscle building process.

You can't grow if your diet does not allow you to gain weight.......period!

I agree. When I am bulking I shoot for a pound a week. I know I am putting on some fat, but I have no problems cutting, and I feel I add more muscle at this rate.

[Sol Rosenberg]

hehe MP I was only 90% serious about the refridge thing.

I'm the typical slow-gainer, be it fat or muscle. So dramatically increased calories translates to at least some gains in muscle. I'm of the old school of thought that people like me can't bulk and cut at the same time. For me a clean bulk divides my focus of what I'm doing and the results tend to be slower. So for impatient type A's like me bulking is satisfying because I can see the gains, cutting is satisfying because I see the excess pounds coming off. The trick as already mentioned is fine tuning...for me especially during the cutting phase so I don't lose as much hard earned muscle.

Ok, back to the fridge!

[JOHN GARGANI]

In all fairness I think 1 lb per week during a bulk as a max cap is reasonable. You state that if you bulk a pound a week that would be 50 pounds in a year but who ever said it was good to bulk for more than 15 weeks at a time? During a cut the accepted weight loss is 1 lb per week. I would never dream of cutting for a whole year....I would end up losing 40 lbs of muscle......but I have no problem losing 1 lb per week for 10 -15 weeks.

I think many bodybuilders don't gain muscle because they don't let themselves gain any weight. As soon as the scale says they gained a few pounds they freak out and cut calories and stop the anabolic muscle building process.

You can't grow if your diet does not allow you to gain weight.......period!

yes, but JT: even 15 pounds of weight in 15 weeks is barely 5 pounds of lean weight....the human body simply cannot put that much lean weight on, unless you are young, or a real newbie.....

but for anyone past a certain age and already training, gaining 15 pounds in 15 weeks is at least 10 pounds of adiposity.....

for young lifters, it can actually be good to gain a little fat, hormonal wise, however, this IS the over 35 section and we have different criteria at this point.....

if you are already eating clean and maintaining weight, a clean "bulk" might be nothing more than one more clean meal per day, with "meal" used loosely, meaning a feeding....

could be as little as one more protein drink..really.....

you are putting yourself into positive calorie balance......don't need much....

[JOHN GARGANI]

it is similar to pregnant women: given a woman has a fairly balanced diet and is maintaining her weight, one extra glass of milk a day could be enough "extra" for carrying the baby.....

here is the math: the baby is only 7 pounds, and maybe another 5 pounds of placenta, etc.....12 pounds equals : 12 X 3500 calories needed to gain pound = 420,000 extra calories divided by full term ( 9 X 30 days in a month) = 155 extra calories per day.


155 calories a day can be done with one 8 to 12 ounce glass of milk extra!!!

[JTraining]

yes, but JT: even 15 pounds of weight in 15 weeks is barely 5 pounds of lean weight....the human body simply cannot put that much lean weight on, unless you are young, or a real newbie.....

but for anyone past a certain age and already training, gaining 15 pounds in 15 weeks is at least 10 pounds of adiposity.....

for young lifters, it can actually be good to gain a little fat, hormonal wise, however, this IS the over 35 section and we have different criteria at this point.....

if you are already eating clean and maintaining weight, a clean "bulk" might be nothing more than one more clean meal per day, with "meal" used loosely, meaning a feeding....

could be as little as one more protein drink..really.....

you are putting yourself into positive calorie balance......don't need much....

Good points all well taken John. But at the end of the day a positive caloric surplus must be hit for gains to be made (the goal being just slightly over as you mentioned with excess fat being the penalty).

I see guys at the gym who stay the same weight for years because they stay at maintenance all the time. I would rather gain 15 pounds.....cut ten......then repeat. I would have gained 5 pounds of muscle over 30 weeks while they would have gained ziltch.

[JOHN GARGANI]

that's a good point JT and of course, like anything else in BB, must be tailored to each and everyone's individual body.

for people who have great difficulty dropping 10 pounds, such a plan may not work...

also, in the process of dropping the ten pounds, you might possibly shed one or two of the lean , inadvertently....

but for some, it most certainly could work out that way.......


again: the bodybuilder's lifelong quest: learning HIS/HER body......

[JOHN GARGANI]

BTW: JT: to see THIS:




and THEN: see this:





Props and reps are in order....very inspiring!!

[JTraining]

Thanks John.....props to you too for sharing training ideas and being cool.

That first picture was after a ten year bulk with zero weight training LOL! It involved a lot of beer, pasta & cheeseburgers....I do not recommend it

[uncbob]

Back when the testosterone was raging ( 18-21) I gained 10-12 lbs of LEAN muscle each school year 9 months--took summers off

I think that was real progress

No way gaining a pound a week at age 38 is not mainly FAT

[uncbob]

Good points all well taken John. But at the end of the day a positive caloric surplus must be hit for gains to be made (the goal being just slightly over as you mentioned with excess fat being the penalty).

I see guys at the gym who stay the same weight for years because they stay at maintenance all the time. I would rather gain 15 pounds.....cut ten......then repeat. I would have gained 5 pounds of muscle over 30 weeks while they would have gained ziltch.

Why do you think you have to gain 10 pounds of fat to gain 5 pounds of muscle

[JTraining]

I don't......It was a worst case scenario comparison of bulking/cutting vs. eating at maintenance all the time. The main point was if you don't let yourself gain any weight over the course of a season you will not make good muscle gains.

[uncbob]

I don't......It was a worst case scenario comparison of bulking/cutting vs. eating at maintenance all the time. The main point was if you don't let yourself gain any weight over the course of a season you will not make good muscle gains.

What do you consider good gains
Like I said I gained 10-12lbs of lean muscle each 9 month school period and be darned if I saw any fat with it --I was lucky I/We didn't have enough $$$$ to eat eat eat just added an extra glass or 2 of milk a day with some Hoffman's Hi Protein ( when I could afford it )

I think 10-12 is really decent in 9 months

[JTraining]

10 - 12 lbs in 9 months with zero fat gain is awesome Bob. Especially by adding just a glass or two of milk!

[plmb1]

that's a good point JT and of course, like anything else in BB, must be tailored to each and everyone's individual body.

for people who have great difficulty dropping 10 pounds, such a plan may not work...

also, in the process of dropping the ten pounds, you might possibly shed one or two of the lean , inadvertently....

but for some, it most certainly could work out that way.......


again: the bodybuilder's lifelong quest: learning HIS/HER body......

John.......as usual....spot on!!

To me:.........cut/bulk ect.....and clean bulk "use" to come out the same.

For example:

Back in the day when I would bulk/cut/bulk/cut......I would bulk and gain 30lb+ inside 5 to 6 months..LOL..then.."have" to go on a very, very long (usually 6 to 7 months) and very, very tough cut and end up with maybe......just maybe 2 to 3 pounds of lbm for the year more than I had before gaining the 30lb+.

After I learned what worked best for "me" (and most others if they would just do it) I really "never" bulked again. I just stayed a little above main level year-round and gained at a very slow rate and low and behold......at the end of the day......guess what.......the same 2 to 3 lbs gained........but.......lol.......this way "I" did'nt have to walk around with a gut.......I looked pretty damn good year round. Another plus to this was if a show came up that I did not plan on doing but changed my mind just weeks out......I could do it because I was staying within 4 to 5% bf of stage ready.......but still gained the same amount of lbm a year...

I know there are some that say they can't do this......and I'm sure there are some that can't.......but IMO........most can, just will not due to having to be more strict on their diets "all the time" instead of just "some of the time".

Plus.......to me....it's healthier to stay leaner than to gain/lose/gain/lose ect...

I'm in this for health reasons now......first time in my life. It feels great. I wish had of did it this way much, much sooner.

Live and learn.

[KQguy]

OP,If you are not sure what's going on with the extra weight,as far as fat or water,I would suggest taking some time and sheeding off the excess water to see what's underneath.With some cardio,lot's of water,and reduced calories,you should be able to shed most of the excess water out of the way within a week,so you can get a better idea of what's going on.I don't think it will set you back much as far as your bulk in concerned,it will just give you a clearer picture of what's going on,and make you more confident you are doing the right thing.That's what I would do anyway.

[uncbob]

10 - 12 lbs in 9 months with zero fat gain is awesome Bob. Especially by adding just a glass or two of milk!

And it kept up for a total of 46 lbs in 38 months total training and I was still gaining when I quit ( oh to have the chance to make that decision again )

IMHO Guys today take in way too much extra food and protein and worthless supplements in attempting to get the muscle gains

Hard work and Patience

But I was 17-21 years old so that helped a lot

Over 35 --a lot harder

[janzbot71]

But I was 17-21 years old so that helped a lot

Yeah, probably so.

[machined]

What's working for me (over 40) are 4 week lifting cycles (300 cals over maint) and 2 week recomps (cals below maint/20 min cardio post lifting/no dairy/sodium flush) to view physique results at the end of 14 days. After recomp I can repeat the 4 wk cycle if I'm happy with my physique changes or do a different routine if I find that I didn't improve. You never stray far from cut condition and you have many opportunities/cycles in the year to put on mass. This is only for the seasoned lifter who understands the difficulty of adding LBM while staying lean (i.e. who have to coax and manipulate their body into adding muscle in small amounts).

[oldtimerfred]

Looking for some input here. I started a clean bulk about 7 weeks ago. I've put on 7lbs on, so 1lb a week. My Body fat is around 12.5%, but I look like I feel fat. Is this normal, does it sound like I'm on the right track? I stopped cardio entirely, so I'm not sure if I should include some cardio. I guess watching my body fat % is the way to guage. This is my first ever bulk, so I think I'm going about it the right way. I'm 188lbs and I'm eating around 3200-3500 calories a day, I'm on a 40/40/20 diet. Should I lower the calories to maintenance on non work out days?

First off good job on the 7lbs, some good gains. I would look into including Anabolic Pump if you can afford it. Also for a clean carb I use IDS Waximaize.

To address your concerns, I'd slow it down on the calories a little bit, and include a day of cardio- or 10min of intense cardio at the end of your workout. During your bulking period it is important to stay positive and feel like proud of your gains (in my opinion). Also we are our own worse critiques, if your girlfriend or wife likes what she sees, then your doing something right