Are abs and other small muscle isos nessecary?

[lolbeast]

Im talking about muscles like abs, biceps, rear/side delts, calves, and stuff like that. Im on a beginner strength routine involving: bench (bb + db), press (bb + db), squat, dl, db rows, pullups, hiit.

Is it nessecary to do other excercises, mainly for abs, or are the compounds + lean diet + time enough for abs to show?

Also, do I need to do curls, skull crushers, calf raises, shoulder raises??

5'11 170 lbs about 14-15% bf

[im2manly]

Im talking about muscles like abs, biceps, rear/side delts, calves, and stuff like that. Im on a beginner strength routine involving: bench (bb + db), press (bb + db), squat, dl, db rows, pullups, hiit.

Is it nessecary to do other excercises, mainly for abs, or are the compounds + lean diet + time enough for abs to show?

Also, do I need to do curls, skull crushers, calf raises, shoulder raises??

5'11 170 lbs about 14-15% bf

Your abs are like any muscle, I would train them directly.
If you aren't doing side laterals you are just being lazy.
If you don't train rear delts you will be disproportional may slouch. You need to balance out all the work to your front delts.
A combination of Isos and compounds are always best and IDGAF what any cookie cutter program says otherwise.

/.02

[guest89]

I don't like training isolation abs. I look at it this way, everyone I know with a '6-pack' has one thing in common, they don't do isolation ab exercises, they achieved their 6-pack through diet + cardio. Every fat person trying to get abs has one thing in common, they do endless reps of isolation ab exercises...

I actually had one guy tell me he always did ab exercises and used different ab machines until he realized it simply wasn't necessary. And yes, he still had good abs even though he hadn't trained them directly with isolation exercises in a few years.



Personally I think if someone is using heavy weight, and is squatting, military pressing, deadlifting, cleaning, etc. the abs/core are getting worked adequately. At that point the goal becomes reducing bodyfat through cardio + diet.



If after your bodyfat is reduced and a core strength or visual issue comes up with the abdominal, there is plenty that can be done to work on them.



Now if you have issues with your core when doing the core exercises I mentioned, then you will need to strengthen it. (If the issues are there with bodyfat they'll probably get worse as you get leaner). If you are a stickler for ab exercises and just enjoy that sort of them, then go ahead and do it.


At the same time I wouldn't spend endless amounts of time working abs. Or like I see in my gym, some people dedicate an entire day to ab exercises...

[lolbeast]

Your abs are like any muscle, I would train them directly.
If you aren't doing side laterals you are just being lazy.
If you don't train rear delts you will be disproportional may slouch. You need to balance out all the work to your front delts.
A combination of Isos and compounds are always best and IDGAF what any cookie cutter program says otherwise.

/.02

Thanks for the input. Do you suggest doing the the isos after my compounds, at the end of my workout, for each group? I.E side laterals + rear delts at end of shoulders day. Abs at end of bicep/back day? Here is what my routine would look like:

M:
Squat
BB + DB flat bench
Dips
Tricep Extension

T:
Pullups
Rows
Abs
Cardio (maybe HIIT)

W:
DL
BB + DB flat bench
BB + DB shoulder press
Side Lats

Th:
Pullups
Rows
Abs
LISS (maybe HIIT)

F:
Squat
BB + DB flat bench
Dips
Tricep Extension

Sat:
HIIT

Sun:
LISS

Is this a good split for mass? Am I working out too much? Pretty much, my idea was to have my big compounds on M W F which I go to the gym for. Then on Tues + Thurs, I can do pullups, rows, abs and cardio at home where I have a light dumbbell set. Cardio on non compound days.

[lolbeast]

Thanks for the input. Do you suggest doing the the isos after my compounds, at the end of my workout, for each group? I.E side laterals + rear delts at end of shoulders day. Abs at end of bicep/back day? Here is what my routine would look like:

M:
Squat
BB + DB flat bench
Dips
Tricep Extension

T:
Pullups
Rows
Abs
Cardio (maybe HIIT)

W:
DL
BB + DB flat bench
BB + DB shoulder press
Side Lats

Th:
Pullups
Rows
Abs
LISS (maybe HIIT)

F:
Squat
BB + DB flat bench
Dips
Tricep Extension

Sat:
HIIT

Sun:
LISS

Is this a good split for mass? Am I working out too much? Pretty much, my idea was to have my big compounds on M W F which I go to the gym for. Then on Tues + Thurs, I can do pullups, rows, abs and cardio at home where I have a light dumbbell set. Cardio on non compound days.

any comments on my schedule?