HEAVY Squatting causes back injury

[BodyQuest1]

What do you think of this comment--

Tuesday, July 27, 2010
Heavy Squatting
" I would not have anyone squat long term and I know that sounds cut and dried but there are plenty of ways to work your legs without spinal compression and exposure."
I should have been more clear. Squatting with a heavy weight such that they become back lifts mor than working the legs is definitely not recommended for the long haul if you ask me."---taken from http://cyberpump.blogspot.com/2010/0...squatting.html

But isn't it that the human spine is supposed to be able to handle well over 1,000 pounds?? With proper squatting technique, and well developed muscles that supports the spine(especially abdominals and lower back muscles), shouldn't the amount of weight not matter? Look @ bodybuilders/powerlifters who squat massive weights

[sf69]

Bad form = injuries

[BodyQuest1]

Bad form = injuries

Nice Legs^ How much do you weigh and how many pounds do you squat yourself? :P

[KyleAaron]

"Squatting with a heavy weight such that they become back lifts mor than working the legs is definitely not recommended"

In other words, squatting with poor form is not recommended.

Which is, like, totally new to all of us. Thanks a lot for your contribution.

[Big_Bully]

It's not completely false, it does hold some water.
It's physics. I don't care how perfect your form is or strong your anatomy structure is, if you have 405lbs+ on your back, there is going to be some spinal compression and wear on cartlidge such as your meniscus.
I stick with 3 sets of 20.

[Own3r]

I never go over 300lb on squats EVAAAA! Only thing I do is more sets or more reps if it becomes to easy.

[AusPower]

Sounds like they are on that ****gy time to me.

[y0lked]

As if leg press, extensions, and curls build nice legs. lol

[Fury22]

"Squatting with a heavy weight such that they become back lifts mor than working the legs is definitely not recommended"

In other words, squatting with poor form is not recommended.

Which is, like, totally new to all of us. Thanks a lot for your contribution.

^^This. If your squat is a back lift, then you're doing it wrong. End of Story.

Sounds like they are on that ****gy time to me.

Not quite. There is something to this argument. If your focus is overall health, then yes, squatting ridiculously heavy is pretty pointless. You get to a point where trying to put heavier and heavier loads is just pointless. Again this is in regards to health and longevity, not being as muscular or as strong as possible. However, if your goal is a big squat, well....yeah keep squatting heavier.

However, a fellow lieutenant told me that squatting over 225 was pointless which I laughed at, as well as saying that squatting past parallel is bad for your knees, which I also laughed at.

[agvares]

It's not completely false, it does hold some water.
It's physics. I don't care how perfect your form is or strong your anatomy structure is, if you have 405lbs+ on your back, there is going to be some spinal compression and wear on cartlidge such as your meniscus.
I stick with 3 sets of 20.

spinal compressions also occure from running and jumping, so what?

it's not something wrong, it's just the way your body works.

and what's the point in squatting 3*20 if you aren't trying to do that with 405 pounds sometime?

[jormone]

Old. RFESS!

http://mboyle1959.wordpress.com/2009...squats-part-3/

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_..._one_at_a_time

[rdferguson]

What do you think of this comment--

Tuesday, July 27, 2010
Heavy Squatting
" I would not have anyone squat long term and I know that sounds cut and dried but there are plenty of ways to work your legs without spinal compression and exposure."
I should have been more clear. Squatting with a heavy weight such that they become back lifts mor than working the legs is definitely not recommended for the long haul if you ask me."---taken from http://cyberpump.blogspot.com/2010/0...squatting.html

But isn't it that the human spine is supposed to be able to handle well over 1,000 pounds?? With proper squatting technique, and well developed muscles that supports the spine(especially abdominals and lower back muscles), shouldn't the amount of weight not matter? Look @ bodybuilders/powerlifters who squat massive weights

Joints are nourished via compression/decompression. Just saying...

[kevingzammit]

Learning proper technique isn't an easy task. Especially when dealing with clients who are tall or have unusual proportions. However, weight is irrelevant if the squat is being executed in a manner that stresses the spine/joints, more than the targeted muscles. I always remind clients of the intended muscle we are trying to hit and constantly remind them to tap into the muscles rather than just move the weight up and down. Push through the heels and feel the quads, hams, and glutes coil up as they come down. Slingshotting out of the movement with confidence and power from the hips.
Limiting squats will limit maximum muscle growth and as long as there are no previous injuries, push as hard as you can and always have them control the weight. You will find that after learning proper technique - which even lots of trainers do not know - you can progress squats rather quickly and strengthen the spine, not hurt it.
I had my knee reconstructed 2 years ago after an ACL tear due to a motorcycle accident. Brought home 1st place welterweight last month and squats were a regular for me every week. So its fine if other people do not have the courage to do them, I'm not stopping anytime soon. You may want to incorporate leg presses as well to improve activation of glutes/quads, and improved flexiblility of hamstrings. This will all prevent spine injuries.
Yours in health,
Kevin Zammit

[sammers62]

yea of course they are... just stick to fifty variations of curls and it will make your legs bigger!

[Kelei]

You don't have to back squat if you don't want to, front squats combined with romanian deadlifts will get the job done just as well. You also have trap bar deadlifts, trap bar squats, leg press, hack squats etc.

There are plenty of alternatives to back squats.

[Jotnar]

It all really depends on your goals.

I am a powerlifter/strongman so for me there is no substitution, that would be like telling an NFL player they can't make tackles becasue they may hurt themselves without proper form.

If your clients goals are just overall health, fitness and good looks there are plenty of fine subsitutions, especially if you are not confident in your ability to teach someone how to squat

[foodandfitness]

Good article on the squat here: http://www.memorialhermann.org/locat...t.aspx?id=9353

[txapn]

heavy bicep curls = back injuries...

justsayin.



no in all seriousness, you can say too much of alot of things is bad! compression is not bad! if you progress appropriately and vary ur exercises to strengthen evenly then the compression is actually good IMO...

just like people leaning away from certain exercises bc is "taxes the nervous system"...

isnt these two stressors (compression, nervous system) some of the points of resistance exercises?

[Fury22]

Good article on the squat here: http://www.memorialhermann.org/locat...t.aspx?id=9353

I agree to an extent. The squat is not the be-all-end-all, especially when it comes to athletics. However, is it a superior movement to the leg press? It depends, but generally I would say yes. If the goal was to isolate the hips and legs and strengthen them specifically, then the leg press would be a better choice. However, the squat, as stated implied in the article, is not just a lower body lift, but a whole body movement. So in that sense it is superior, and provides more bang for the buck.

I have actually come to think that the front squat is a better choice for most people and is more transferable to real world tasks, especially when combined with the deadlift or a deadlift variant.

As for the squat and injury thing, that's not the fault of the exercise but poor form and often in athletics poor coaching. When I hear that argument, my first thoughts are:
-you have sh*t form
-you were using too much weight which equaled sh*t form
-you have a sh*t coach
-a happy combination of all

So that's not the fault of the exercise. However, in that case I guess I would rather have athletes performing a leg press if they don't have proper instruction (and especially since the bro-myths and egos run high in school weight rooms, so a lot of stupid sh*t is going down).

[jmossthnp]

As usual some people looking for a reason to back out of the hard stuff and find an excuse for it. Then they wonder why they still look like crap as they do leg extensions and have their MCDonalds. Find me a man with 30 inch legs and I bet he squats...

[BRO_RESULTS]

As if leg press, extensions, and curls build nice legs. lol

Because those are the only alternatives to Squatting.

No one ever heard of Lunges, Step-ups (with dumbbells), Bulgarian DB Squats, Deadlifts, Hex Bar Deadlifts, Barbell Hack Squats, etc.

Jesus Christ.

[Gueifu]

I am going to look at both your suggestions and look for any good deals on these. Thanks again for the help.

[LiftHeavy85]

front squats do not produce spinal compression. Sounds like the person is just making excuses



Please find me another leg exercise that will work the same muscles and give me the same strength as front squats.

[BRO_RESULTS]

front squats do not produce spinal compression. Sounds like the person is just making excuses



Please find me another leg exercise that will work the same muscles and give me the same strength as front squats.

Zercher Squats BEAT THE **** out of Front Squats. Try Zerchers with even ONE plate and see if you don't feel your quads about to explode. Do these with high reps too and they are KILLERS. I do them 12-15 reps. They f-cking suck but well worth it.

They also make my abs sore as ****, which I love. I find many Squat variations can't accomplish this. I suppose because it transfers the load directly to the middle. You want good core engagement, I suggest you hit the Zerchers.

Even Zercher Stiff-legged Deadlifts are a great exercise. All of these variations also have an added benefit of targeting the arms and the shoulders.

[BRO_RESULTS]

Learning proper technique isn't an easy task. Especially when dealing with clients who are tall or have unusual proportions. However, weight is irrelevant if the squat is being executed in a manner that stresses the spine/joints, more than the targeted muscles. I always remind clients of the intended muscle we are trying to hit and constantly remind them to tap into the muscles rather than just move the weight up and down. Push through the heels and feel the quads, hams, and glutes coil up as they come down. Slingshotting out of the movement with confidence and power from the hips.
Limiting squats will limit maximum muscle growth and as long as there are no previous injuries, push as hard as you can and always have them control the weight. You will find that after learning proper technique - which even lots of trainers do not know - you can progress squats rather quickly and strengthen the spine, not hurt it.
I had my knee reconstructed 2 years ago after an ACL tear due to a motorcycle accident. Brought home 1st place welterweight last month and squats were a regular for me every week. So its fine if other people do not have the courage to do them, I'm not stopping anytime soon. You may want to incorporate leg presses as well to improve activation of glutes/quads, and improved flexiblility of hamstrings. This will all prevent spine injuries.
Yours in health,
Kevin Zammit

ACL injuries rarely would affect Squats. Leg Extensions I can see being a problem with ACL tears.

[bghurc]

If you use good form, I don't see how there should be any problem. Through adaption, the body can be trained to handle a serious amount of weight. If this person believes this, he is probably using to much weight and/or incorrect form. I don't know what he defines as "heavy" squats, but I know I don't do 'em. High reps yield better results with leg exercises. I do 4 sets of 20 at 315...perfect for me.

[BEhave]

Learning proper technique isn't an easy task. Especially when dealing with clients who are tall or have unusual proportions. However, weight is irrelevant if the squat is being executed in a manner that stresses the spine/joints, more than the targeted muscles. I always remind clients of the intended muscle we are trying to hit and constantly remind them to tap into the muscles rather than just move the weight up and down. Push through the heels and feel the quads, hams, and glutes coil up as they come down. Slingshotting out of the movement with confidence and power from the hips.
Limiting squats will limit maximum muscle growth and as long as there are no previous injuries, push as hard as you can and always have them control the weight. You will find that after learning proper technique - which even lots of trainers do not know - you can progress squats rather quickly and strengthen the spine, not hurt it.
I had my knee reconstructed 2 years ago after an ACL tear due to a motorcycle accident. Brought home 1st place welterweight last month and squats were a regular for me every week. So its fine if other people do not have the courage to do them, I'm not stopping anytime soon. You may want to incorporate leg presses as well to improve activation of glutes/quads, and improved flexiblility of hamstrings. This will all prevent spine injuries.
Yours in health,
Kevin Zammit

Yea I rarely tech the bb back squat to clients. Just takes too long. You can get away with box squats and deadlifts as well as things like reverse lunges (very easy to teach)

[KyleAaron]

Yea I rarely tech the bb back squat to clients. Just takes too long.

???

I can teach an idiot to squat in ten minutes. The only issue - apart from injuries, obviously - is hamstring flexibility, this often limits mobility in the typical desk worker. But even in the worst cases they can usually progress from goblet squats and stretching to barbell squats to just above or below parallel in 1-2 months.

I found Dan John and Mark Rippetoe's vids about lifting invaluable in learning what are good teaching cues, etc. Here is an example from Dan John.

[chicago]

What do you think of this comment--

Tuesday, July 27, 2010
Heavy Squatting
" I would not have anyone squat long term and I know that sounds cut and dried but there are plenty of ways to work your legs without spinal compression and exposure."
I should have been more clear. Squatting with a heavy weight such that they become back lifts mor than working the legs is definitely not recommended for the long haul if you ask me."---taken from http://cyberpump.blogspot.com/2010/0...squatting.html

But isn't it that the human spine is supposed to be able to handle well over 1,000 pounds?? With proper squatting technique, and well developed muscles that supports the spine(especially abdominals and lower back muscles), shouldn't the amount of weight not matter? Look @ bodybuilders/powerlifters who squat massive weights

jesus h christ it's 2011 and personal trainers are still saying this crap? his analysis is infantile at best. and unfortunately the same guys that spew this crap are the same guys loading up the leg press and the hack squat with 8 plates a side and putting more spinal compression and force on the knee than 2 months of squatting heavy. i want to see them train their legs. does he have a video of himself training legs? i can guarantee you it's not very impressive and i have never even seen the guy.

you know what i say when someone tells me that squats are hard on your lower back? i tell them "yeah and bicep curls are hard on your biceps."

[Smithers115]

???

I can teach an idiot to squat in ten minutes. The only issue - apart from injuries, obviously - is hamstring flexibility, this often limits mobility in the typical desk worker. But even in the worst cases they can usually progress from goblet squats and stretching to barbell squats to just above or below parallel in 1-2 months.

I found Dan John and Mark Rippetoe's vids about lifting invaluable in learning what are good teaching cues, etc. Here is an example from Dan John.

anyone can teach some one to squat in 10 minutes, doesnt mean they're doing it right or even more important understand what they're doing