Rest for 'internal shoulder' exercises?

[BagABones]

Hey all-

Question: ** How many days of rest do you give your shoulders when you do exercises such as internal rotation, external rotation, the broomstick stretch/rotation, etc.


I don't really have bad shoulders per say, but I do have a slight clicking noise during certain arm movements. I'm starting a program that's intended to train for surfing, build some mass, and hopefully help my posture/get my shoulders back more. My split looks like this:

Monday- Full body Workout A
Tuesday- Rest
Wednesday- Power Yoga
Thursday- Swim
Friday- Full Body Workout
Saturday-Swim
Sunday- Power Yoga

I am not sure where to put the internal shoulder exercises. I was thinking at the end of Full Body Workout A to give it two days rest before Power Yoga. Is this enough? I'm not sure if I should be treating them like other muscles that get isolated (48/72 hours rest).....

Thanks

PS. If swimming on Thursday will be too much stress on the little muscles, I'm not opposed to making that a second rest day. Or perhaps if this split will have me overtraining... maybe I should be taking the weekend off instead? Any advice greatly appreciated!

[BagABones]

Bumpity bump.

No one incorporates these exercises into their training?

[davisj3537]

On this program you can put them on any day you like. Grouping with full body makes the most sense. You seem to be majoring in the minors again bud. Do a proper warm up/stretch and then do your program how it is written. You are focusing on little things instead of the big ones. These "exercises" should be part of your warm up routine...not a shoulder workout.

[kanis999]

Agree that they should be part of your warmup routine.

A big misconception is that the source of these sorts of 'crickety shoudler' problems is usually not the rotator cuff muscles themselves. The RC muscles just happen to take the fall for the muscles that are not adequately strong!

The true culprit is usually the big, powerful muscles that attach to the scapulae being out of balance with one another. These muscles include:

- Pecs, ESPECIALLY pec minor
- Traps, especially lower and mid traps
- Rhomboids
- Lats and Teres Major
- Serratus Anterior
- Rear delts vs front delts
- Long head of the biceps!

All of these need to be balanced. Your rhomboids need to be perfectly balanced with serratus anterior and pec minor. Your lower traps need to be as strong as the upper traps. The mid traps need to be balanced with the pec major.

When you have imbalances in these larger muscles, the RC gets phucked as a result. The RC itself didn't do the phucking (in most cases).

So what do you do?

Decide which of the muscles I listed are weak and which are tight. Strengthen the weak ones, stretch the tight ones, and avoid strengthening the tight ones for a while.

Notoriously tight muscles:
- long head of the biceps
- pec minor
- front delts and pec major
- teres major
- upper traps

Notoriously weak muscles:
- rhomboids
- mid and lower traps
- serratus anterior (this one's REAL important guys)
- rear delts
- long head of the triceps.

This isn't a road map, your individual tight/weak muscles may be totally different, so experiment. But these generalizations hold true for the majority of the weight lifting public.

[bitistathebeast]

I would incorporate them on your upper body days swimming the next day shouldn't do you any harm! I usually run a three-day split, I do my rotator cuff strengthening on my chest and shoulder days giving them a few days rest in between!

[BagABones]

On this program you can put them on any day you like. Grouping with full body makes the most sense. You seem to be majoring in the minors again bud. Do a proper warm up/stretch and then do your program how it is written. You are focusing on little things instead of the big ones. These "exercises" should be part of your warm up routine...not a shoulder workout.

Agree that they should be part of your warmup routine.

A big misconception is that the source of these sorts of 'crickety shoudler' problems is usually not the rotator cuff muscles themselves. The RC muscles just happen to take the fall for the muscles that are not adequately strong!

The true culprit is usually the big, powerful muscles that attach to the scapulae being out of balance with one another. These muscles include:

- Pecs, ESPECIALLY pec minor
- Traps, especially lower and mid traps
- Rhomboids
- Lats and Teres Major
- Serratus Anterior
- Rear delts vs front delts
- Long head of the biceps!

All of these need to be balanced. Your rhomboids need to be perfectly balanced with serratus anterior and pec minor. Your lower traps need to be as strong as the upper traps. The mid traps need to be balanced with the pec major.

When you have imbalances in these larger muscles, the RC gets phucked as a result. The RC itself didn't do the phucking (in most cases).

So what do you do?

Decide which of the muscles I listed are weak and which are tight. Strengthen the weak ones, stretch the tight ones, and avoid strengthening the tight ones for a while.

Notoriously tight muscles:
- long head of the biceps
- pec minor
- front delts and pec major
- teres major
- upper traps

Notoriously weak muscles:
- rhomboids
- mid and lower traps
- serratus anterior (this one's REAL important guys)
- rear delts
- long head of the triceps.

This isn't a road map, your individual tight/weak muscles may be totally different, so experiment. But these generalizations hold true for the majority of the weight lifting public.

Davis- Yea, I do have a tendency to analyze into things a lot. It's just I wanted to start Monday (tomorrow), and I'd like to have everything 'in place'.
Are you guys sure it should be done as a warm-up though? I was trying to do these rotation exercises as if I had a bad shoulder, to 'rehab' my shoulder before it gets bad, and strengthen those little muscles and bring my posture back. Treating them as a warm-up isn't really conditioning them per say.. and I am wary of exhausting those muscles before I stress them with upper body exercises like bench. Isn't that more dangerous than conditioning them after the major exercise?

Kanis- If it really is my major muscles and not the little ones... How do you determine which muscles are weak, such as the mid and lower traps being weaker than the upper traps? I am almost certain that my rear delts are lacking since all the years of swimming has "rounded" my shoulders forward.. so I am sure I have a slight imbalance there... (I'll be incorporating facepulls)

I would incorporate them on your upper body days swimming the next day shouldn't do you any harm! I usually run a three-day split, I do my rotator cuff strengthening on my chest and shoulder days giving them a few days rest in between!

Hmm.. I know swimming incorporates those little muscles, which is why I figured I should do them on Monday (for the rest day and moderate intensity power yoga the following). If I swim the day after.. that's not really giving them a few days rest like yourself wouldn't you say?



Thanks to all of you for helping me.

[bitistathebeast]

Davis- Yea, I do have a tendency to analyze into things a lot. It's just I wanted to start Monday (tomorrow), and I'd like to have everything 'in place'.
Are you guys sure it should be done as a warm-up though? I was trying to do these rotation exercises as if I had a bad shoulder, to 'rehab' my shoulder before it gets bad, and strengthen those little muscles and bring my posture back. Treating them as a warm-up isn't really conditioning them per say.. and I am wary of exhausting those muscles before I stress them with upper body exercises like bench. Isn't that more dangerous than conditioning them after the major exercise?

Kanis- If it really is my major muscles and not the little ones... How do you determine which muscles are weak, such as the mid and lower traps being weaker than the upper traps? I am almost certain that my rear delts are lacking since all the years of swimming has "rounded" my shoulders forward.. so I am sure I have a slight imbalance there... (I'll be incorporating facepulls)



Hmm.. I know swimming incorporates those little muscles, which is why I figured I should do them on Monday (for the rest day and moderate intensity power yoga the following). If I swim the day after.. that's not really giving them a few days rest like yourself wouldn't you say?



Thanks to all of you for helping me.

True you do incorporate that rotator cuff during swimming but when you're working your internal and external you should be using really lightweight and high reps it's not like your really breaking down the muscle if that makes sense!

I do see were coming from though switching out your yoga for your swimming would not be a bad idea! Just for that extra reassurance.

[kanis999]

Kanis- If it really is my major muscles and not the little ones... How do you determine which muscles are weak, such as the mid and lower traps being weaker than the upper traps? I am almost certain that my rear delts are lacking since all the years of swimming has "rounded" my shoulders forward.. so I am sure I have a slight imbalance there... (I'll be incorporating facepulls)

Forward shoulders probably means tight biceps and pecs, in addition to the front delts. To fix it, strengthen these movements:

Face Pulls (glad to see you're doing them. Hold peak contraction for a couple seconds until you're sure you feel it right. Imagine hitting the pose in my avi at the peak contraction and trying to drive your elbows much further back even)
Horizontal rows, focusing on pinching shoulder blades
Deadlifts
Front Squats

Stretch your pecs, biceps, neck, and lats. Lower body is a whole new can of worms.