Lets Talk About: Ifbb Judging !

[Milos Sarcev]

As much as I know that I will be criticized again - I calculated PROS and CONS and decided to post this ANYWAY...
I would like to emphasize that I AM NOT TRYING to create the problem...instead I am trying to find a solution for everlasting problem we are all facing for numerous years. Subjectivity as a nature of judging IFBB events (bodybuilding, fitness and figure).

I know that many IFBB officials and athletes are reading this board so I am sure this will reach ALL THE PARTIES in no time...

Well, I am talking about SUBJECTIVITY as a nature of judging our bodybuilding shows...and while we can't measure, time or knockout anyone - we can certainly defeat our competitors IF somebody clarifies the judging criteria...and defines what is GOOD, BETTER...and/or THE BEST.

If competitors AND JUDGES would know what we all really want (we - as bodybuilding community) - maybe we could actually agree on something...that something being - judging!

After all competitors will know HOW TO PREPARE BETTER, judges would know how to judge, fans would be less angry or confused Huh...or rather shocked with the results and some winners would possibly be at least somewhat ashamed [ accepting somebody's else title (money, glory...etc)...and I would not face another suspension ...or be told to - shut up..

Anyway, for years now we are dealing with inconsistent results and waiting for a changes...and those changes never came...Actually - things are getting worse and certainly not better and that's why I think it is time to speak up.

Did you ever wonder how judges really judge the show?

Do you think they have some point system? Some percentages(?), certain things that they are looking for (?), certain things they penalize or award athletes for (?)...Real MEASURABLE criteria?

Simply - they don't!

Judgment is given purely on subjective opinion and that could be PERSONAL PREFERENCE of the judge who is entitled to his own subjective opinion...


Well, in my opinion - judging should consider:


1- SHAPE, BALANCE, AESTHETICS, SYMMETRY, EXTREME V-TAPER, FLAT AND DEEP ABS, BEAUTY OF PHYSIQUE, HEALTHY SKIN...AND HEALTHY OVERALL APPEARANCE...as ONE ASPECT OF JUDGING

2- CONDITIONING, MUSCULARITY, EXTREME LEAN LOOK, DRYNESS, SEPARATION, STRIATIONS, TIE-INS, "GRAINY-NESS", "HARDNESS", TIGHT SKIN, "SHREDDED-NESS"...and other EXTREMES of similar nature...
But, here I would also consider muscle Glycogen storage - and FULLNESS as conditioning part of judging rather than MUSCLE MASS ASPECT of judging...

3- MUSCLE MASS, THICKNESS, WIDTH, ROUND MUSCLE BELLIES (could be considered in aspect #1 as well...)...and other extremes of similar nature...

4- PRESENTATION, POSING, ABILITY TO SHOW PHYSIQUE THE WAY IT SUPPOSE TO LOOK (not leaving it up for imagination of others to THINK what certain physique could look like IF presented correctly...), MISTAKE FREE POSING (#1- many competitors forget to squeeze certain muscles...and more often than not - judges would just go with: "well, if Jay squeezed his legs on Friday during the prejudging - he would have looked better so I would give him this pose considering that I know what his legs and physique looks like IF he posed correctly, #2 - many competitors let their "pregnancy show"...and that's a no-no, #3 - also many fail to find THE BEST WAY to do certain poses...etc...etc...), STAGE PRESENCE (standing in line up PERFECTLY...AT ALL TIMES), HITTING EVERY POSE WITH CONFIDENCE AND AUTHORITY, CHOREOGRAPHING ROUTINES with perfect transitions, SHOWING PHYSIQUE TO EMPHASIZE THE STRENGTH OF SOMEONES PHYSIQUE (and not the weaknesses...Many fail to realize that POSING ROUND is not being judged for actual posing or movement...Fat, out of shape ballet artist or out of shape professional dancer should not win the posing round by virtue of his posing skills...Posing round is PHYSIQUE ROUND where athletes could/should show their strengths USING POSES OTHER THAN MANDATORIES that present their physiques in that "special light" bodybuilders want to be known for...So, aesthetic guy could emphasize beauty of his physique, aesthetic look, perfect shape, symmetry and balance by doing EXACT POSES to exemplify WHAT HIS ATTRIBUTES ARE...
Conditioned guy on another hand could present his shredded physique by doing poses to show his shredded muscles (or maybe hide cellulite?)...and muscular guy should do as many muscular posses...thick guy presenting his thickness, wide guy his width...V-tapered guy his extreme V-taper...etc...etc

If someone succeeds in presentation of his strengths THAN AND ONLY THAN we could say OK - he should have place higher as he is: THIS (aesthetic, balanced, symmetrical...) or THAT (conditioned, more muscular, bigger, thicker, wider...)...
But, many times fans go with picture of their favorite champion AS THEY REMEMBER HIM from before - while only shadow of that physique is being displayed on the stage at the moment - yet "shadow" gets the same amount of points as "sentimental judgment" or "paid dues" treatment from the judges that ALSO consider what once was or what could have been (if in shape)...

WE NEED TO START JUDGING PHYSIQUES ON THE DAY OF THE CONTEST REGARDLESS OF NAMES, PREVIOUS OUTINGS...ETC...POLITICS ...

I am in a hurry actually so maybe I am rushing this a bit...but I will get back to make some points...or rather - maybe WE CAN ALL START NEW THREAD ABOUT JUDGING - and NOT to argue with judges and federation...Not to criticize but rather to START WORKING ON HELPING OUR OFFICIALS FINDING THE BEST WAY TO JUDGE...

To take that "subjectivity OUT" or at least reduce it to minimum...so we (ALL OF US WHO LOVE SPORT OF BODYBUILDING, ATHLETES AS WELL AS FANS) could have clear idea WHY some guy managed to place ahead of others...

Judges should be able to explain WHY they saw Jay superior to OTHERS at 2007 Mr. Olympia...(just as one of numerous examples).

Did they saw him better in:

1- SHAPE, BALANCE, AESTHETICS, SYMMETRY, EXTREME V-TAPER, FLAT AND DEEP ABS, BEAUTY OF PHYSIQUE, HEALTHY SKIN...AND HEALTHY OVERALL APPEARANCE...department?

I don't think so...as I see many beating Jay in this aspect of judging.


2- CONDITIONING, MUSCULARITY, EXTREME LEAN LOOK, DRYNESS, SEPARATION, STRIATIONS, TIE-INS, "GRAINY-NESS", HARDNESS, TIGHT SKIN, SHREDDED-NESS...and other EXTREMES of similar nature...
But, here I would also consider muscle Glycogen storage - and FULLNESS as conditioning part of judging rather than MUSCLE MASS ASPECT of judging...


I don't think so - AGAIN...



3- MUSCLE MASS, THICKNESS, WIDTH, ROUND MUSCLE BELLIES (could be considered in aspect #1 as well...)...and other extremes of similar nature...

Maybe in this one? So this is "holly grail" of bodybuilding - BIGGER IS BETTER AND NOTHING ELSE MATTERS?



4- PRESENTATION, POSING, ABILITY TO SHOW PHYSIQUE THE WAY IT SUPPOSE TO LOOK

Again...NOT the case (in my book)...


So, let's help our judges...which will ultimately help our sport.

Give your point of view...and we could at least start SOLVING THE PROBLEM - very easily...

And let's keep it NICE and CIVIL..without unnecessary attacks...

Again - I am looking for SOLUTION and not the ARGUMENT... and I hope we all do?

[jonny62]

Milos...I am 100% agreed.

This would..ha i cant even sum it up but it would 'sort' pro bodybuilding if you will.

Nice use of the words: "GRAINY-NESS" and "SHREDDED-NESS"!

Fantastic post!

[Ajk_Lpool]

Obviously I agree, and I'm sure the rest of us do Milos (including the diehard Jay fan's who still claim he won, you must be feeling rather stupid now). I now see the IFBB as a "business" and not a "sport". This is why politics will always ridicule the Olympia competition.

If judges were to reward overall package...Then can somebody please tell me where Jay Cutler beat Ronny Rockell a few weeks back? Conditioning, symmetry, aesthetics, lines? No. Overall mass? Yes. But absolutely nothing else.

If the IFBB implemented these changes they probably think they'd look pretty stupid, when in actual fact it would be a huge boost for the fans.

[captainhorseboy]

I can't say I disagree with anything you said here, Milos.

[bxbombers]

who judges the judges? is there any acountability for their decisions?

in baseball after every game the calls of the umpires go under review.. if the umps make enough bad calls they loose their jobs.. does this happen in the ifbb? do they go over the pictures after a show? do they ask one judge why he had this guy at #5 when everyone else had him at #1?

i bet all the judges use the "subjective" excuse.. but like milos has pointed out. if they had this clear criteria, it would be less subjective.. and it would turn into a sport rather then the beauty pagent it is now

[LUKEDEICHER]

Now we are definately in interesting times in the IFBB history.

Changes obviously need to be brought up or discussed after last years O. It was the judges decision to pick the winner. But when at least 3/4 of bbing fans seem to disagree with the result, there is a problem.

I am glad Milos is taking the initiative and putting himself on the line by making these comments and expressing his opinion.

Part of the whole problem with our sport is the communication, it has to improve.

[Jotun]

Great post. The IFBB judging standards (or lack thereof) have been a major source of frustration and confusion for fans and competitors alike. The IFBB needs to establish strict criteria for judging, adhere to this criteria for EVERY contest, and hold the judges accountable for their decisions. Predetermined call-outs in the prejudging often leaves many competitors (who may be in fantastic shape) out of the winners' circle by the end of the night, all based on "paying dues" or previous competitions. This practice has to go. All competitors deserve an equal look at the start of prejudging and their previous competitions should have no bearing on their placement.

The problem is getting the IFBB to care about our concerns. Perhaps Bob, as the IFBB rep, can compile a petition with these concerns signed by the numerous frustrated fans and competitors (and former competitors)?

Another possible option to having strict criteria for every contest is to have "specialty" contests where judging criteria is openly different. For example, one contest is publicized to attract the biggest, most massive guys who may not be absolutely shredded but carry tons of mass (Jay, Victor, Branch, etc.). Another show could be catered to the classic, symmetrical, defined physiques, with an added emphasis on the posing round (Melvin, Dexter, etc.). Different strokes for different folks, I suppose. But these different shows will acknowledge UP FRONT what their judging criteria will be in order to avoid as much controversy as possible.

[skinnycalves]

Jotun, if your username is named after an inflames song, i will rep you, inflames \m/

and i agree 100%

[sikboy]

"Thank got for the sponsorship round!"

Jay Cutler

[adonis verdader]

The problem is that IFBB judges don't judge.

[Duckenheimer]

I agree with you Milos, but look back at 80-81. The IFBB goes past 'subjectivity' to downright lack of adherence to judging standards, the athletes are not in a competition, they are in a business, and it probably always will be this way.

Kai Greene and can do porn, Martinez can sell drugs, but the IFBB still lets the compete. (I'm not saying that they shouldn't, 2 of my fave bodybuilders, just that this is very much against the there's a completely biased and inconsistent application of rules for athletes) yet Lee Priest merely competes in the PDI, and is suspended.

The IFBB is rotten to the core. We've had judges who simply let their preferences get in the way of judging, and we've had contests that have been downright fixed.

HOW do we make this change happen?

[John Doe X]

I understand the motives of your post and I agree with your sentiments.

However, as you acknowledged in your opening paragraph "Subjectivity as a nature of judging IFBB events" and therein lies its Achilles heel.

There is no factual evidence that can positively identify the winner or allocate placings accordingly.

"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder"


"we can certainly defeat our competitors IF somebody clarifies the judging criteria.....After all competitors will know HOW TO PREPARE BETTER" (Milos).

I am slightly sceptical of this proposition, bodybuilding is largely genetic, consequently I don't believe that some bodybuilders can radical transform their physique in order to conform to a new criterion. If the criteria placed an emphasis on mass, people like Darrem Charles, Dextor Jackson will not be able to fulfill this criteria, conversely if the criterion was aesthetic, again this would be ambiguous in its interpretation and its subsequent manifestation, Ruhl would be unable to conform to this standard.

A bodybuilder's physique is unique, it is individualised, even if there is one idealised abstract definition of a perfect physique, bodybuilders will bring their own specific interpretation of that aspirational criteria to the stage, and we will be back where we started.... a subjective interpretation of individual physiques on stage. The problem will simply be repackaged


I believe that there is a criteria at present; a competitor will display a combination of a balanced, proportioned physique, with muscular density and conditioning

Your criteria...

"SHAPE, BALANCE, AESTHETICS, SYMMETRY, EXTREME V-TAPER, FLAT AND DEEP ABS, BEAUTY OF PHYSIQUE, HEALTHY SKIN...AND HEALTHY OVERALL APPEARANCE...as ONE ASPECT OF JUDGING

2- CONDITIONING, MUSCULARITY, EXTREME LEAN LOOK, DRYNESS, SEPARATION, STRIATIONS, TIE-INS, "GRAINY-NESS", "HARDNESS", TIGHT SKIN, "SHREDDED-NESS"...and other EXTREMES of similar nature...
But, here I would also consider muscle Glycogen storage - and FULLNESS as conditioning part of judging rather than MUSCLE MASS ASPECT of judging...

3- MUSCLE MASS, THICKNESS, WIDTH, ROUND MUSCLE BELLIES (could be considered in aspect #1 as well...)...and other extremes of similar nature...

4- PRESENTATION, POSING, ABILITY TO SHOW PHYSIQUE THE WAY IT SUPPOSE TO LOOK "



No problem on the face of it but;

No one is going to propound the opposite ie

an unshapely, unbalanced, anaesthetic, unsymmetrical, non- vtaper, small, shallow, soft, flat smooth etc


The problem once again lies in interpretation, what does a well balanced, aesthetic, dense, symmetrical, conditioned all combined with muscle mass look like. Is there a clear criteria to identify the physical manifestation of such ambiguous qualities in practice?


As I said above, each physique is unique, each physique has its own respective strengths and weaknesses both comparatively and relatively. There are so many permutations to consider i.e

Bodybuilder A v Bodybuilder B

Bodybuilder A has got better conditioning, deeper lines, better proportions, better density

but Bodybuilder B has got better detail, better symmetry, more quality muscle mass etc.

Or, it could be said that Bodybuilder A has better chest, quads, triceps, traps, but Bodybuilder B has a better back, calves, biceps, abs etc

Or, Bodybuilder A has a better most muscular, side chest, side chest, whereas, Bodybuilder B has a better rear double biceps, ab-thigh, latt spread etc

This is just one hypothetical permutation that could be entertained. In such a scenario, how do you differentiate? What qualities are to be given precedence?

Such permutations will vary with every competitor in respect of their comparisons to other bodybuilders, how can you legislate for such propositions?

In the 2004 Olympia, they were to meant to penalise large waists- did they? no , now no one pays attention to it.

A criteria will not solve these problems

The problem is not the criteria, but the interpretation and the application, this brings the judges to the fore.

What is unforgivable and inexcusable is the judge's conflict of interest. Many of the judges are personnel friends with some of the competitors, have lunches with them, some invite them to do their shows, Mike Mentzer once said that Reg Park, Arnold's mentor, was judging the 1980 Olympia and was even giving Arnold instructions during the competition. Bob Chicerello has said that this is the same for all the competitors, and consequently everyone is on an even par. I disagree with this assessment.

I do agree that judges should be more accountable. They should have to explain their decisions, why they preferred one physique over the other, they should release their notes on the comparisons, each bodybuilder can then take what they want from their observations and implement them accordingly. Even then this may have its limitation's. Bodybuilders are usually aware of their weaknesses both relative and comparative For example, small calves, big waist ? Calves are largely genetic, difficult to change, no one wants a big waist on purpose, such observations won't aid them.


Each bodybuilder should have the sense to do best with what they were given, and hope that the judges reach a similar conclusion.

[bongd]

Not to jump on any bandwagons, but I completely agree with you Milos. It's so assuring to have IFBB pro's and people in the industry with as much knowledge as you.

As a side note, love the training videos and diet expertise. Some of your advanced training techniques have mad visits to the gym punishing, but extremely effective. Same goes with the kitchen - it's all one big battlefield.

[u5711]

I would definitely like to see judging reform as well. I like this:

"WE NEED TO START JUDGING PHYSIQUES ON THE DAY OF THE CONTEST REGARDLESS OF NAMES, PREVIOUS OUTINGS"

[John Doe X]

In summary

the problem isn't the judging criteria, or any possible application of it (subjectivity will inevitably yield different results), the problem occurs where there is a conflict of interest, and it appears that the IFBB possesses numerous cases

i.e.

Joe weider, or AMI now, run the Olympia, they appoint the judges, define the criteria,

the conflict of interest occurs when their sponsored athletes, or the Olympia's major sponsor's athletes, participate.

Such sponsorship includes contracts that stipulate that the athletes are only allowed to appear in AMI publications.

There should be an independent body that should be set up to choose the judges for the competition, there should be no interference from the higher echelons of the IFBB in this nomination process

[adbramsay]

great post!!! it is about time we realise that the ifbb and the sport of bodybuilding wont progress without changes. hell did american football remain the same as when it came over? no, otherwise it would still just be rugby league.

but i also agree with the "who judges the judges?" remark. you need to make sure that they explain and have a rational reason as to why they chose competitor a over competitor b otherwise you will still have the same problem.

hey milos, on a side note, when is joel gonna come and see you? do you think that its possible for him to bring his legs up enough to make an impact at shows? anyway, i havent seen him in a while last time i spoke to him he was in atlanta for flight sim training. he was kinda mad about the show, well you probably know.

[tony404]

Milos must of had some free time to kill, he was in the game and he knows its never going to change. All the words here mean nothing to the people who run the game. Its been ****ed up from the beginning. Want to make it more fair,have a tape measure round. Say this is what the ratio should be for the winner and make it worth 70% of points needed to win. That would make it very fair but then you would all bitch when someone like Rockel won.

[ekolow]

Milos, what do you think Melvin Anthony should have placed?

[HardcoreForLife]

Martinez can sell drugs, but the IFBB still lets the compete. (I'm not saying that they shouldn't, 2 of my fave bodybuilders, just that this is very much against the there's a completely biased and inconsistent application of rules for athletes) yet Lee Priest merely competes in the PDI, and is suspended.

Vic was busted by someone who used him to get what he wanted ,that is what undercover cops do,they use all means necessary to get what they want.He did time for that and no longer "sells drugs"as you claim.No one on this board is a saint and can claim never to have done anything wrong,it's funny how people pass judgement and point fingers but never look at what they do,because according to them,"i would never do such a thing".

[ProWrestleFan]

I would definitely like to see judging reform as well. I like this:

"WE NEED TO START JUDGING PHYSIQUES ON THE DAY OF THE CONTEST REGARDLESS OF NAMES, PREVIOUS OUTINGS"

x2

[liverpool4ever]

what we also need is to go back to the original one day judging instead of two days. Now for the sponsors and big business it's a love and hate thing, without them there would be no shows, so they will always have an influence in bodybuilding shows, especially the major ones.

[DJINN]

This thread strikes at the heart of the beast that is IFBB judging. It is very inspiring to see a current pro taking a public stance and pointing a large spotlight on this issue. I stated this in a different thread recently:

"The IFBB has well-established physique assessment criteria that been around for ages. The memorandum regarding abdominal distention that emerged a few years back was a great idea...in theory. The prejudging process is good the way it is. All of these elements are solid on paper...the problem comes in practical application. We often see athletes get lost in the shuffle and never get compared because there is a bias towards the top guys in the sport or the guys who finished in the top spots in previous shows. To this end, popularity tends to determine callouts and unfortunately things spiral out of control from there.

Bodybuilding is subjective...as a judge however, there are specific objective criteria that should be adhered to regarding symmetry, balance, muscularity, etc. The system is not a disaster, but the outcomes of flaws or biases in judging leads to disastrous outcomes.

Consistent adherence to the physique assessment standards that the IFBB has established would alleviate many of the "BS" outcomes we see all too often nowadays."

The point of attack requires exact targets, and the target is not necessarily the judging system. The targets are the judges and the lack of oversight in the judging process. There is no rhyme or reason to their madness in some cases, and in other cases they appear to be spot on correct...and when dealing with an endeavor riddled with so much subjectivity, the judges are easily able to run circles around and circumvent any debates or questions raised regarding outcomes.

The big question to ask is how does the IFBB regulate its judges and who upholds the integrity of the judging system to ensure abuses, flaws, "fixes", and downright BS is minimized?

The other question is, does the IFBB even care what the fans think? This is a great question to ponder considering that the business of bodybuilding is definitely doing well regardless of our bitterness...we still buy products, we still buy mags, we still show up at contests.

Sorry for the long rant...I'll be back later for more. Time to rest my fingers and eat!

[Guardian]

The other question is, does the IFBB even care what the fans think?

No, the actual bodybuilding fans (the ones watching the Olympia) are so few in number and importance it doesn't matter.

The biggest factors of the Olympia are people that never even watch it, that is the newbs buying the supplements. Pro bodybuilding is all about business and money, and the supplement companies are the primary string pullers in this.

If the worst person in the lineup at the big O won you may get .5% of supplement buyers pissed off, of those .5% maybe only .25% of them will actually be pissed enough to buy different brands. You think Muscletech is seeing any loss from all ranters on this board who say there was a sponsership round? They might lose a handfull of sales. Chances are half the people on here who push the sponsership agenda didnt even buy muscletech to begin with.

Bodybuilding as emerged into an image sport of "part of the whole." What I mean by this is nearly everyone who buys supplements do not want to look anywhere neAR like Coleman or Cutler. But the idea is if you take a guy that looks extreme people will think "well if I can even get part of his gains using this Ill be where I want." Its like people wanting fancy sports cars that can go 200 mph. Most of these people never want to go that fast, but they have this thinking that since it goes that fast it must be able to be that much better going normal speeds.

Fact is the biggest event in bodybuilding isnt even on pay per view, you have to watch it from a ****ty webcast. The ifbb isnt stupid, they know the actual fanbase to view these events is inconsequential, therefore decisions are based more on the sources of income (supplements) then they are the viewers who actually have an oz of bodybuilding knowledge and say "hey why is that guy winning with a huge gut."

[Intenceman]

Good points. But the IFBB already HAD a set of judging criteria. They just stopped using them.

[chris08]

they should have an instant replay on who beats who on pose down. Then make a pyramid going all the way to the top 6.. or something

[stealth_swimmer]

Good points. But the IFBB already HAD a set of judging criteria. They just stopped using them.

x2, they "know what to do" but just haven't been doing it.

[SOMEPARTS]

No, the actual bodybuilding fans (the ones watching the Olympia) are so few in number and importance it doesn't matter.

The biggest factors of the Olympia are people that never even watch it, that is the newbs buying the supplements. Pro bodybuilding is all about business and money, and the supplement companies are the primary string pullers in this.

If the worst person in the lineup at the big O won you may get .5% of supplement buyers pissed off, of those .5% maybe only .25% of them will actually be pissed enough to buy different brands. You think Muscletech is seeing any loss from all ranters on this board who say there was a sponsership round? They might lose a handfull of sales. Chances are half the people on here who push the sponsership agenda didnt even buy muscletech to begin with.

Bodybuilding as emerged into an image sport of "part of the whole." What I mean by this is nearly everyone who buys supplements do not want to look anywhere neAR like Coleman or Cutler. But the idea is if you take a guy that looks extreme people will think "well if I can even get part of his gains using this Ill be where I want." Its like people wanting fancy sports cars that can go 200 mph. Most of these people never want to go that fast, but they have this thinking that since it goes that fast it must be able to be that much better going normal speeds.

Fact is the biggest event in bodybuilding isnt even on pay per view, you have to watch it from a ****ty webcast. The ifbb isnt stupid, they know the actual fanbase to view these events is inconsequential, therefore decisions are based more on the sources of income (supplements) then they are the viewers who actually have an oz of bodybuilding knowledge and say "hey why is that guy winning with a huge gut."

Ageed. There is a total disconnect between "fans" of bodybuilding and the IFBB. The only angle to make $$$ on bodybuilding is supplements, media, or equipment - unlike major sports it's not bodies through the gate at shows or participation fees. Obviously Weider has been in supplement, media, and equipment business for longer than most of us have been alive by using highly enhanced physiques to sell schmoes.

Another thing, to blame Muscletech for running this past show is naive at best. There has always been backing for the Mr. O prize money. There will always be slanted judging or there will be no judging at all.

My opinion - bodybuilding is a sport only to the bodybuilder himself/herself, and the further you get away from bodybuilding as a personal discipline the less a sport it is.

[mikepence]

I say, put aside the sham that is IFBB judging today AND draw a bigger audience to IFBB events and webcasts by letting the fans decide. People can vote by cell phone and over the web for other contests, why not for the Mr. O?

Sounds like a win-win to me. The fans aren't going to blame themselves for a bad decision -- at worst, it is the whim of the crowd. But if the fans would have been allowed the final say, or even a partial say, at this year's event, think of the excitement a win by Victor or Wolf would have brought! The magazines could have shouted "Upset by the awesome Wolf!" from the newsstands, more supplements would have sold, more people would have been drawn to the sport...

In short, more money would be made, I think, if you involve the audience in a meaningful way. Put a survivor-style edge on the whole thing and watch the money flow. Let's stop the nepotism, put this sham judging to rest and make some serious coin, because, honestly, isn't that what it is all about?

Really, the root of the problem is the guy who runs the IFBB, whose name escapes me at the moment. If he had shareholders or athletic sanctioning boards to answer to, he could not pull this crap. Instead, he gets to stroke his dick by stacking the deck. Shame on him. He makes Vince McMahon look honorable.

[Grimsman]

BodyBuilders in this day and age, arent highly regarded in the MainStream of popular sport because there is no respectabe leadership at the helm. If our own Pro "champs" participate and compete in contests where they know who is going to win anyways Why Bother? Why literally kill yourself and pour your heart and soul into preparing just to get a slap in the face when you see things that you think the judges are going to see as well.. The same faction of leadership has been in power for far to long and now that Joe Weider has let his grip loosen on his influence on the npc and ifbb, You can expect more of the same and we are all going to say "Thank you sir, May i have another" For fear that we wont get a contract or be popular or get booked for guest posings or photo shoots so Pros can promote themselves and present BodyBuilding as an Art Form. Often times my daughter looks through my Magazines with me and asks "Daddy, why does he want to be a FREAK?" Why, does she look like a Man? I offer a simple solution to this quandry. Select a panel of IFBB sanctioned INTERNATIONAL judges from around Globe and less of the Also rands that are usually in the REGULAR panel. Some of the best competitors ive ever seen have been from europe or even asia for that matter. Get different judges for each show.
Bodybuilding is on the decline and Im sorry to say the Female Bodybuilders are going to go the way of the dinosaur because they arent as marketable as the figure and fitness competitors. T and A up for grabbs and sex and politics rule our sport. The majority of the croud at major BB shows are the haves and the have nots when it comes to social status in the so called "community"
The sport needs to appeal or needs appeal to the regular guy whos gonna get up off the couch and turn off the Ulitimate Fighting Championship or the Cage Match and buy a ticket to see Craftsmen and Artisans of Iron and Muscle. Inspiring posing routines matched with professionalism. Physiques that make people think that if they took up the "Craft" that they too some day could take the stage and inspire somone else to do the same. Our Leadership is content to show the world that BB is about Freaks and extreme and HARDcore and INSANE,. Truth be told, look at the old pics Cutler, of Coleman and JP Fux. Look at what HGH has done to them, Gorilla Bellies and Temperal Lobes, Chin growth and deepened sunken eyes. This is the criteria of our Champions?? Unfortunatly its not going to get better untill there is a collapse in the Mens Pro Division. Many are chicken to say anything because it hurts their Cred. There is no money in BB. Its an expensive sport if you dont have a hook up or a suppliment contract. Once you turn pro, its a whole nother ball game till you learn to Shup up, Play by the rules, wait your turn, dont piss anybody off, Give Give Give, dont push back, swallow your pride and dont get busted. I wish Milos Sarcev were President and Ceo of MusleTech because they own the Bloody show anyhow. Man I wish Joe Weider were like 40 years younger because then i could entertain the thought of having a chance to "Go all the Way" or you the reader could have a "Shot the bright lights"

[Outlined]

I think that it could really help to have more eyes on the sport and to put more pressure on the judges. The judges get away with it now, but we need to examine who are judging, what the criteria is, how they judged and why they judged the way they did. It must be clearly communicated before the show and examined by an unbiased source. What does it take to be a judge? What qualifications must they have and how likely are they to be neutral to the competitors? The sponsorship must be diverse, more resources must be involved with the judging and the show, but that would mean more money is needed.

To have more eyes on the judges, the bodybuilding sport first must grow. To make the sport bigger, in my opinion, it must first move away from the distended guts and (although entertaining) freakiness and move towards a more healthy looking ideal. Beauty must be more incorporated to make it more appealing. Only then it could be more accepted by general public and generate more money. And of course, the stripdance influences and the minimal posing trunks is not really helping the sport to grow either.

So it's unfortunately very hard to make the change to elevate common interest now, when we first must raise the interest in the sport to make the change!