anyone else looking forward to this?

[TMac26]

^ Good stuff. Stocked up on 3 tubs before Lime is no more

I think the petition might have worked.

[dbone1026]

I think the petition might have worked.

Yeah? If so that is great news

[Dewey99]

I've been using Powershock for like a good solid year and half. Before I became a rep I bought all 10 tubs GNC had last spring on closeout sale (9 bucks a tub)

I was going to grab some Powershock too but my Supp budget is just about shot for now.

[TMac26]

I was going to grab some Powershock too but my Supp budget is just about shot for now.

Looking at the stack I would say so.


Its pretty cheap and can get had for 23 bones on bodybuilding.com

[acecombact1]

I'm sorry but did you read where they indicated When they took it? It makes a difference, it's been since discussed that to maximize ArA benefits it needs to be taken pre-workout. It also should be taken w/ GMS and a L-Carnitine source to maximize the benefit. There is a long thread in which Neuron discussed the reasons for this.

Did you actually read the entire study or just the abstract? I just skimmed the entire study. They did not specify that anywhere. The users also self-reported the workouts, so it's always an issue in these types of studies w/ false reporting. Not to mention that the bodyfat % of the ArA group was significantly higher then the Placebo group. One can draw a simple social connection that perhaps the placebo group who had a lower bodyfat %.. ~4% less had been training for a longer time and had cleaner diets. I'm just pointing out some flaws I see in the study compared to the ancedotal reports from users, including myself that have seen benefits from ArA.

Yes i have read the study, Here is some parts f the method section:

Subjects
Thirty-one healthy, resistance trained males (22.1 ± 5.0 yrs, 180 ± 0.1 cm, 86.1 ± 13.0 kg, 18.1 ± 6.4% body fat) were informed of study protocol approved by the Institutional Review Board at Baylor University prior to participation. Training status was self-reported, and individuals who lacked at least one year of experience prior to study were excluded. In addition, subjects were excluded if they: 1) had any history of metabolic, hypertension, hepatorenal, musculoskeletal, autoimmune, or neurologic disease; 2) were currently taking thyroid, antihyperlipidemic, hypoglycemic, anti-hypertensive, or androgenic medications; and 3) had taken nutritional supplements that may affect muscle mass [i.e., creatine, hydroxy-beta-methylbutyrate (HMB)] and/or anabolic/catabolic hormone levels [i.e. androstenedione, dihydroepiandrosterone (DHEA), or other prohormones] within three months of the starting the study.

Supplementation protocol and dietary monitoring
In a double-blind fashion, subjects ingested four 250 mg capsules containing a corn oil placebo or AA (X-Factor, Molecular Nutrition, Jupiter, FL) over 50 days following baseline testing. Supplements were prepared in capsule form and packaged in generic bottles by Molecular Nutrition. Compliance was monitored by having subjects return empty supplement bottles after 25 and 50 days of supplementation. In accordance with previous guidelines and in an effort to ensure energy and protein intake were adequate to facilitate muscle hypertrophy, all subjects were instructed to increase caloric intake by approximately 500 kcal·day-1 while also maintaining an estimated protein intake of 2 g·kg-1·day-1 when compared to baseline dietary analysis [23]. Subjects were provided a commercially-available meal replacement powder (Lean Body, Labrada Nutrition, Houston, TX) containing approximately 290 kilocalories, 24 g of carbohydrate, 45 g of protein and 1 g of fat per serving in an attempt to accommodate the above mentioned energy and protein requirements. Depending on baseline protein intake, subjects were told to ingest 1 to 2 packets of the meal replacement supplement in the morning and/or immediately following each workout [24]. Additionally, subjects were instructed to avoid regular consumption of foods known to be high in ω-3 fatty acids including fish oil, flaxseed oil, cold water fish, olive oil, sesame oil, peanut butter, N-acetyl-cysteine, conjugated linoleic acid, as well as anti-inflammatory medications including acetaminophen, ibuprofen, aspirin and other non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs [18]. Dietary intake as well as linoleic (18:2, ω-6), linolenic (18:3, ω-3), and AA intake were monitored with 4-day dietary recalls at days 0, 25 and 50 and assessed using the Food Processor III Nutrition Software (ESHA Nutrition Research, Salem, OR).

Resistance-training protocol
Over a 50-day period, subjects completed a 4 day·week-1 split-body, linear periodization resistance-training program. Upper body lifts included bench press, lat pull, shoulder press, seated rows, shoulder shrugs, chest flies, biceps curls, and triceps press-downs while lower body lifts included leg press, back extension, step ups, leg curls, leg extension, heel raises, and abdominal crunches twice per week. Subjects performed 3 sets of 10 repetitions with as much weight as they could lift per set (i.e., 60–80% of 1RM). Rest periods between exercises did not exceed 3 minutes, while the rest between sets did not exceed 2 minutes. Training was conducted at the university's student life center, documented in training logs, and signed off by designated staff members to verify compliance and monitor progress. This protocol has been shown in prior research to promote significant gains in muscular strength, muscular endurance, and fat free mass [25].
---------------------------

So are you saying that your product wont work by itself without GMS and a L-Carnitine!! Why it isnt included in your formulation then? I agree that every study has its flaws. One study dont have much weight if its not replicated. But at the end, double blind peer reviwed studies hold more water than a subjective non-controlled user feedback

[VPX_Sports]

Yeah? If so that is great news

It's a daily battle here at corporate, with no clear winner yet.

[TMac26]

It's a daily battle here at corporate, with no clear winner yet.

Use a gun.

[w_llewellyn]

The ARA groups did better on all performance measures during that study. Peak Power was a statistically significant finding. Bench press 1RM max, average power, and endurance were all higher in the ARA group as well, but the small groups and individual variability didn't provide enough power to reach statistical significance. It is an excellent pilot study, but more refined studies are needed to expand on the findings.

[w_llewellyn]

Simply showing the weight of a pill on a scale does not do anything to actually prove what is inside the capsule. This only shows that the capsule weighs above the lowest theoretical point upon which 250mg ArA in a 40/60 blend could weigh.

This is true, and I really don't want to address anyone from SNS, but I have to ask... What is that lowest theoretical point you just mentioned? With 40% ARA oil, wouldn't it be about 625 mg for the oil, plus any other ingredients, plus the casing weight? What if a capsule was way below this theoretical point? Like only 490 or 500 mg in total weight, casing and everything? Could it still have 625 mg of 40% oil inside, plus say 40 mg of zinc gluconate (for 5 mg elemental zinc), plus the casing?

How much does your softgel weigh? How far above the lowest theoretical point you mentioned is it Day? Please clarify!

[rhadam]

This is true, and I really don't want to address anyone from SNS, but I have to ask... What is that lowest theoretical point you just mentioned? With 40% ARA oil, wouldn't it be about 625 mg for the oil, plus any other ingredients, plus the casing weight? What if a capsule was way below this theoretical point? Like only 490 or 500 mg in total weight, casing and everything? Could it still have 625 mg of 40% oil inside, plus say 40 mg of zinc gluconate (for 5 mg elemental zinc), plus the casing?

How much does your softgel weigh? How far above the lowest theoretical point you mentioned is it Day? Please clarify!

Is this the part where we give a number and you try to quote it and trap us?

We have nothing further to say until we release our Official Statement.

[w_llewellyn]

BTW - the casing on X-Factor weighs slightly over 200 mg. This is why our softgel weighs 835 mg with 625 mg of 40% ARA oil inside (for 250 mg of actual ARA).

[w_llewellyn]

Is this the part where we give a number and you try to quote it and trap us?

We have nothing further to say until we release our Official Statement.

Trap you? How is it a trap to say how much your softgel weighs? Why refuse to answer such a simple question?

[Dewey99]

Trap you? How is it a trap to say how much your softgel weighs? Why refuse to answer such a simple question?

Why ask questions that you obviously already know the answer to? You obviously already weighed your sample otherwise you wouldn't be all over talking about it. SNS has said repeatedly that they needed to do their due diligence and would release an official statement in the coming days. How is this not good enough?

[w_llewellyn]

Why ask questions that you obviously already know the answer to? You obviously already weighed your sample otherwise you wouldn't be all over talking about it. SNS has said repeatedly that they needed to do their due diligence and would release an official statement in the coming days. How is this not good enough?

How many days does it take to weigh a soft gel? Seems like a simple thing to answer; I'm perplexed as to why they are refusing to do so. Do they have something to hide? Is their soft gel below or above that lowest theoretical point Daycrawler mentioned for having 250mg ARA from 40/60 oil. That's all I want to know, really...

So how about it. Anyone else want to answer what the SNS rep doesn't want to? Anyone want to post the weight of their soft gel?

[acecombact1]

The ARA groups did better on all performance measures during that study. Peak Power was a statistically significant finding. Bench press 1RM max, average power, and endurance were all higher in the ARA group as well, but the small groups and individual variability didn't provide enough power to reach statistical significance. It is an excellent pilot study, but more refined studies are needed to expand on the findings.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...7562/table/T2/

Yes, a small increased anaerobic peak power by 8% at day 50, with no increase in muscle mass or hypertrophy, lower IL-6 levels, and increase in circulating prostaglandin.

It a sowrds with two edge. 1) Results are not clear if ArA benifits athletic performance or muscle mass. 2) Increase in prostaglandin PGF2alpha, and insulin resistance is evident in some studies, whcin is a bit concerning!


Arachidonic acid content in adipose tissue is associated with insulin resistance in healthy children.
Aldámiz-Echevarría L, Prieto JA, Andrade F, Elorz J, Sanjurjo P, Rodríguez Soriano J.
SourceDivision of Metabolism, Department of Pediatrics, Cruces Hospital and Basque University School of Medicine, Bilbao, Spain. kaldamiz@hcru.osakidetza.net

Abstract
BACKGROUND: The fatty acid composition of membrane structural lipids, which is partly dependent on dietary intake, is associated with insulin action.

AIM: To examine the association between fatty acid composition of adipose tissue and skeletal muscle phospholipids with insulin resistance markers in a healthy pediatric population.

METHODS: Using a cross-sectional design, we studied 83 healthy children divided into 3 groups, ages 2 to 5, 6 to 10 and more than 10 years.

MEASUREMENTS: Fatty acid composition of adipose tissue triacylglycerols and skeletal muscle phospholipids, plasma lipid profile and fasting plasma levels of glucose and insulin were measured.

RESULTS: There was a linear increase of insulinemia, glycemia and homeostasis adipose tissue model assessment (HOMA) index throughout the pediatric age range. Linoleic acid proportion in skeletal muscle and arachidonic acid proportion in adipose tissue also increased significantly with age. An age-independent positive correlation between insulinemia or HOMA index and arachidonic acid content in adipose tissue triacylglycerols (r = 0.47, P < 0.001) was found. An age-dependent negative correlation was present between insulinemia or HOMA index and oleic acid content in skeletal muscle phospholipids (r = -0.30, P = 0.03 and r = -0.28, P < 0.04, respectively). Trans fatty acids content did not correlate with any marker of insulin resistance.

CONCLUSION: Healthy children present a prepubertal increase of insulin resistance, which is significantly correlated with arachidonic acid content in adipose tissue.

[Daycrawler]

This is true, and I really don't want to address anyone from SNS, but I have to ask... What is that lowest theoretical point you just mentioned? With 40% ARA oil, wouldn't it be about 625 mg for the oil, plus any other ingredients, plus the casing weight? What if a capsule was way below this theoretical point? Like only 490 or 500 mg in total weight, casing and everything? Could it still have 625 mg of 40% oil inside, plus say 40 mg of zinc gluconate (for 5 mg elemental zinc), plus the casing?

How much does your softgel weigh? How far above the lowest theoretical point you mentioned is it Day? Please clarify!

Haven't had a chance to weigh the X-gel yet, plus the only option would be to weigh 20-30 of them and then divide for the scale I currently own. I'm not going to do this as I would want a specific number, not an estimation made off of 20-30 gels and division.

As for your other questions, I'll refrain from answering. As has been offered to you multiple times though, you can call Steve and discuss your questions with him. There's been enough misconception about the product without having further statements being picked apart and creating further scrutiny.

As I said, weighing a gel capsule does nothing to show what is actually inside the capsule. I think we both know that fact, and quite frankly you're basing the standard off of your product. SNS isn't responsible for any product besides its own and will make sure that the proof is compared to the raws acquired from Cargill, the company who owns the patent, and not a competing product.

I'll leave it at that.

[Dewey99]

How many days does it take to weigh a soft gel? Seems like a simple thing to answer; I'm perplexed as to why you are refusing to do so. Do you have something to hide? Is your soft gel below or above that lowest theoretical point Daycrawler mentioned for having 250mg ARA from 40/60 oil. That's all I want to know, really...

So how about it. Anyone else want to answer what the SNS rep doesn't want to? Anyone want to post the weight of their soft gel?

I don't work for SNS, so I don't know why you are angry at my refusal to divulge the weight to a supplement that I don't have in my hands yet.

I would assume that SNS is relying on third party testing and not just weighing softgels on their kitchen counters. That probably takes time and I think it's smart because you don't want to fire back all half-cocked without knowing the facts in the situation.

William, I mean absolutely no disrespect to you but why can't we just wait? The answers you and everybody else are seeking will come soon enough. In the meantime, I just don't think it's good for anybody to keep at this. That's just my opinion though and I am sure others disagree. I made a decision to purchase X-gels from SNS because they offered a good value and I have had nothing but good experiences with them in the past. If for some reason the official testing doesn't go their way, I would be affected too since I bought four bottles. I'm not worried about it though because I think that no matter what happens, SNS will do everything they can to make sure everything is exactly as they said it would be.

[dramalama17]

Someone weight a ****ing X-Gel capsule so we can reach Naga Bhut Jolokia status or close the god damn topic.

[w_llewellyn]

Haven't had a chance to weigh the X-gel yet, plus the only option would be to weigh 20-30 of them and then divide for the scale I currently own. I'm not going to do this as I would want a specific number, not an estimation made off of 20-30 gels and division.

As for your other questions, I'll refrain from answering. As has been offered to you multiple times though, you can call Steve and discuss your questions with him. There's been enough misconception about the product without having further statements being picked apart and creating further scrutiny.

As I said, weighing a gel capsule does nothing to show what is actually inside the capsule. I think we both know that fact, and quite frankly you're basing the standard off of your product. SNS isn't responsible for any product besides its own and will make sure that the proof is compared to the raws acquired from Cargill, the company who owns the patent, and not a competing product.

I'll leave it at that.

I've explained everything to Steve on Friday. The first thing he did when I called was threaten to sue. Moving on, I explained to him very clearly what was happening, and by the end of the conversation I thought we were on the same page. By Monday, I expected this to be handled and behind us. Instead, it looks like Steve has completely disregarded both our phone call and addressing the issues as he said he would. I am speechless; in utter shock really. At this point, I can only assume any decision made moving forward is fully intentional on his part.

Daycrawler, you yourself posted that weight establishes a minimum threshold for what a capsule should weigh if it is to include 250 mg ARA from 625 mg of 40% ARA oil. You can't backpedal that. It is probably the most logical and valid thing you've said in this thread... This needs to be answered..

[Elliptical Envy]

Boom!

[TMac26]

Bhut Jalokia status EE?

[Elliptical Envy]

Bhut Jalokia status EE?

The threat of a lawsuit deducted some spice from the thread. I'm all for shenanigans, but being threatened with a lawsuit is booty.

Red Savina habanero status for now. A bit of light reading for those who want to know more about this pepper. http://ushotstuff.com/Xworldshottestchile.htm

[TMac26]

The threat of a lawsuit deducted some spice from the thread. I'm all for shenanigans, but being threatened with a lawsuit is booty.

Red Savina habanero status for now. A bit of light reading for those who want to know more about this pepper. http://ushotstuff.com/Xworldshottestchile.htm

I have some Red Savina flake here at the house. Dad thought it was red pepper flake for pizza. He regretted every shake.

[w_llewellyn]

Dewey is right.. To everyone reading my posts. I do want to apologize. I know I am emotional about ARA at times.. I can be unprofessional.. It is a fault, and I'm sorry you have to read it.



When this all plays out, I hope my critics will at least take a moment to put themselves in my shoes. I've brought this ingredient to market. Put everything into it when most people thought I was nuts. Now ARA finally has sprouted wings.. I only want to see it soar. I hope you support MN for all the work we put into it, but don't honestly have a problem with you buying ARA from anyone else. I understand it is an open industry. Everyone can sell it and it would truly be fine with me.

I do want my legacy protected though, and never want to see ANYONE take advantage of what we've built. This means I will be here, freaking out, if I feel something might be wrong... someone might be getting taken advantage of on my watch. I don't control the ARA market anymore, but I still care about it more than anyone does I'm sure..

I hope this allows me a little latitude with your patience and understanding... Again, I'm sorry for the posts..


Now how much does that soft gel weigh

[itzDodge]

Lower IL-6 isn't necessarily a bad thing....

[Elliptical Envy]

I have some Red Savina flake here at the house. Dad thought it was red pepper flake for pizza. He regretted every shake.

Balls of steel, lol. I would have thrown that pizza out

Edited for rhadam

[rhadam]

Balls of steel, lol. I would have threw that pizza out

thrown*

Grammar drama anyone???????

[Elliptical Envy]

thrown*

Grammar drama anyone???????

[warbird00]

I get free x gels and I still bought a bottle from a site for $25. Couldn't pass up that price

[thedarce]

Dewey is right.. To everyone reading my posts. I do want to apologize. I know I am emotional about ARA at times.. I can be unprofessional.. It is a fault, and I'm sorry you have to read it.



When this all plays out, I hope my critics will at least take a moment to put themselves in my shoes. I've brought this ingredient to market. Put everything into it when most people thought I was nuts. Now ARA finally has sprouted wings.. I only want to see it soar. I hope you support MN for all the work we put into it, but don't honestly have a problem with you buying ARA from anyone else. I understand it is an open industry. Everyone can sell it and it would truly be fine with me.

I do want my legacy protected though, and never want to see ANYONE take advantage of what we've built. This means I will be here, freaking out, if I feel something might be wrong... someone might be getting taken advantage of on my watch. I don't control the ARA market anymore, but I still care about it more than anyone does I'm sure..

I hope this allows me a little latitude with your patience and understanding... Again, I'm sorry for the posts..


Now how much does that soft gel weigh

LOL talk about your legacy, mind answering a question i've had,
heard through the grapevine that Ara raws seem pretty cheap. about 12 bucks a bottle? is that so?