anyone else looking forward to this?

[Tech954]

I just want to say that SNS is only speaking on behalf of our pure ArA product, not any other companies product containing ArA.

I also would like to say that simply weighing a capsule does not prove what is inside each capsule, simply shows that a capsule weighs above the theoretical point upon which 250mg of a 40% ArA oil blend would need too.

Again, I ask that you wait patiently for an official statement that will make sure to address the concerns and prove the validity of the X-Gel product.

Thanks.

So I understand that the two companies are now claiming the following ArA dosage per cap:

X-gels has 250mg 40% oil = 100mg actual ArA
X-factor has 625mg 40% oil = 250mg actual ArA

If this is the case MN is the more economical buy. And I would have to take 10 x-gels just to hit 1g pure ArA?!

I was under the impression from SNS reps that x-gels had the same ArA content as x-factor. I'm beginning to think I made a bad purchase.

[dbone1026]

So I understand that the two companies are now claiming the following ArA dosage per cap:

SNS has 250mg 40% oil = 100mg actual ArA
MN has 625mg 40% oil = 250mg actual ArA

If this is the case MN is the more economical buy. And I would have to take 10 x-gels just to hit 1g pure ArA?!

I was under the impression from SNS reps that x-gels had the same ArA content as x-factor. I'm beginning to think I made a bad purchase.

Yeah, this is what everyone is trying to figure out. If this is the case the additional downside would be as Dodge pointed out the increased Zinc intake if you needed to take more then 4 X-gels

[dbone1026]

This morning I took 4 XF Original + 4 X-gels (I even put 1 XF and 1 X-gel in my mouth at the same time ). This means pretty much nothing except that I survived to tell my story...

[G-mane12]

If this was due to a mistake on their part.. Because they didn't do enough research on the product before they decided to sell it.. Would make the whole sports supplement industry look bad..

[Daycrawler]

So I understand that the two companies are now claiming the following ArA dosage per cap:

X-gels has 250mg 40% oil = 100mg actual ArA
X-factor has 625mg 40% oil = 250mg actual ArA

If this is the case MN is the more economical buy. And I would have to take 10 x-gels just to hit 1g pure ArA?!

I was under the impression from SNS reps that x-gels had the same ArA content as x-factor. I'm beginning to think I made a bad purchase.

No, this is no what SNS is claiming. We are only speaking on behalf of the X-gels product that is in question. We will not and do not make nor endorse any claims made by any competitors.

The label is accurate, and is following the federal guidelines. I understand that some are confused by the label, but when the product was released the label was explained multiple times.

I'll explain it again since their continues to be a misconception out there about the X-gel product and what it contains. As indicated by the label, the X-gels product has 250mg Ara (40%). SNS purchases the raw material from Cargill, the current patent holder of the product, and ArA is a 40/60 blend w/ Oil. Per federal guidelines, the product has 250mg ArA (40%). The 40% is there to comply with federal guidelines, this may be where confusion is coming from, this does not mean that only 40% of the 250mg is ArA, this means that each capsule has 250mg of ArA, a 40/60 blend of ArA and Oil, and is indicated as being a 40/60 due to federal guidelines.

I apologize for the confusion, but I hope this clears up some of the confusion.

In the coming days, there was be plenty of documented, undisputed proof that will accompany an official statement. Simply showing the weight of a pill on a scale does not do anything to actually prove what is inside the capsule. This only shows that the capsule weighs above the lowest theoretical point upon which 250mg ArA in a 40/60 blend could weigh.

SNS tests every batch of products through a third-party to ensure that what you pay for is what you're getting. No exceptions.

As I've said before, please wait patiently while this process is being completed. True scientific methods take time to complete and verify the contents of gel capsules, simply throwing a capsule on a scale only takes a few minutes and in turn you get what you waited for; a number on a scale that does nothing to actually prove what the actual contents of the product are.

It's simply a smoke screen, and SNS does not believe in using such tactics.

The consumers deserve better, and they will be rewarded with such in the coming days.

-Day

[KenshinH]

No, this is no what SNS is claiming. We are only speaking on behalf of the X-gels product that is in question. We will not and do not make nor endorse any claims made by any competitors.

The label is accurate, and is following the federal guidelines. I understand that some are confused by the label, but when the product was released the label was explained multiple times.

I'll explain it again since their continues to be a misconception out there about the X-gel product and what it contains. As indicated by the label, the X-gels product has 250mg Ara (40%). SNS purchases the raw material from Cargill, the current patent holder of the product, and ArA is a 40/60 blend w/ Oil. Per federal guidelines, the product has 250mg ArA (40%). The 40% is there to comply with federal guidelines, this may be where confusion is coming from, this does not mean that only 40% of the 250mg is ArA, this means that each capsule has 250mg of ArA, a 40/60 blend of ArA and Oil, and is indicated as being a 40/60 due to federal guidelines.

I apologize for the confusion, but I hope this clears up some of the confusion.

In the coming days, there was be plenty of documented, undisputed proof that will accompany an official statement. Simply showing the weight of a pill on a scale does not do anything to actually prove what is inside the capsule. This only shows that the capsule weighs above the lowest theoretical point upon which 250mg ArA in a 40/60 blend could weigh.

SNS tests every batch of products through a third-party to ensure that what you pay for is what you're getting. No exceptions.

As I've said before, please wait patiently while this process is being completed. True scientific methods take time to complete and verify the contents of gel capsules, simply throwing a capsule on a scale only takes a few minutes and in turn you get what you waited for; a number on a scale that does nothing to actually prove what the actual contents of the product are.

It's simply a smoke screen, and SNS does not believe in using such tactics.

The consumers deserve better, and they will be rewarded with such in the coming days.

-Day

Thanks for the clarification man. Repped.

[rhadam]

So I understand that the two companies are now claiming the following ArA dosage per cap:

X-gels has 250mg 40% oil = 100mg actual ArA
X-factor has 625mg 40% oil = 250mg actual ArA

If this is the case MN is the more economical buy. And I would have to take 10 x-gels just to hit 1g pure ArA?!

I was under the impression from SNS reps that x-gels had the same ArA content as x-factor. I'm beginning to think I made a bad purchase.

We have stated multiple times that SNS X-Gels contain 250mg of ArA per gel

I do not know how much more clear we can get.

If this was due to a mistake on their part.. Because they didn't do enough research on the product before they decided to sell it.. Would make the whole sports supplement industry look bad..

lol wut? You must have us confused with someone else.

[Spork3245]

No, this is no what SNS is claiming. We are only speaking on behalf of the X-gels product that is in question. We will not and do not make nor endorse any claims made by any competitors.

The label is accurate, and is following the federal guidelines. I understand that some are confused by the label, but when the product was released the label was explained multiple times.

I'll explain it again since their continues to be a misconception out there about the X-gel product and what it contains. As indicated by the label, the X-gels product has 250mg Ara (40%). SNS purchases the raw material from Cargill, the current patent holder of the product, and ArA is a 40/60 blend w/ Oil. Per federal guidelines, the product has 250mg ArA (40%). The 40% is there to comply with federal guidelines, this may be where confusion is coming from, this does not mean that only 40% of the 250mg is ArA, this means that each capsule has 250mg of ArA, a 40/60 blend of ArA and Oil, and is indicated as being a 40/60 due to federal guidelines.

I apologize for the confusion, but I hope this clears up some of the confusion.

In the coming days, there was be plenty of documented, undisputed proof that will accompany an official statement. Simply showing the weight of a pill on a scale does not do anything to actually prove what is inside the capsule. This only shows that the capsule weighs above the lowest theoretical point upon which 250mg ArA in a 40/60 blend could weigh.

SNS tests every batch of products through a third-party to ensure that what you pay for is what you're getting. No exceptions.

As I've said before, please wait patiently while this process is being completed. True scientific methods take time to complete and verify the contents of gel capsules, simply throwing a capsule on a scale only takes a few minutes and in turn you get what you waited for; a number on a scale that does nothing to actually prove what the actual contents of the product are.

It's simply a smoke screen, and SNS does not believe in using such tactics.

The consumers deserve better, and they will be rewarded with such in the coming days.

-Day

Awesome, so each cap does in fact yield 250mg of ArA. Now make me some stim-free FocusXT!

Seriously, this put me at ease. Was debating on which ArA product to get when the time came for my run.

[Dewey99]

So, back to the real important issue here: how to use X-gels for the ultimate preworkout stack!

After some good advice from a wise member of the SNS team (one that this forum is sadly deprived of), here is my stack:

4-8 X-gels
2g ALCAR
3 scoops GlycerGrow
1 TTA-500
1 scoop of Hemavol with added Agmatine and Citrulline

I really hope my skin doesn't explode from the insane pumps!

[dbone1026]

So, back to the real important issue here: how to use X-gels for the ultimate preworkout stack!

After some good advice from a wise member of the SNS team (one that this forum is sadly deprived of), here is my stack:

4-8 X-gels
2g ALCAR
3 scoops GlycerGrow
1 TTA-500
1 scoop of Hemavol with added Agmatine and Citrulline

I really hope my skin doesn't explode from the insane pumps!

Why ALCAR and not LCLT

[Dewey99]

Why ALCAR and not LCLT

Because Mr. Cooper said so....

I actually already have the ALCAR on hand too.

[Tech954]

Thank you for the clarification Daycrawler.

[dbone1026]

Because Mr. Cooper said so....

Was just curious since 2g LCLT has always been the suggested dosage (per Neuron's thread)

[Daycrawler]

Was just curious since 2g LCLT has always been the suggested dosage (per Neuron's thread)

Neuron used LCLT, any L-Carnitine source suffices.

[acecombact1]

I have a log on X-facor somewhere here from back 2006 when it first came out. I got modest results. But the study here points out that ArA only lowered inflmation at 1g/day for 50 days. Seems like an expensive fish oil!!

----------------------------------

Effects of arachidonic acid supplementation on training adaptations in resistance-trained males

Received October 15, 2007; Accepted November 28, 2007.
Copyright © 2007 Roberts et al; licensee BioMed Central Ltd.This is an Open Access article distributed under the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution License (http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.0), which permits unrestricted use, distribution, and reproduction in any medium, provided the original work is properly cited.

Go to:Abstract.Background
To determine the impact of AA supplementation during resistance training on body composition, training adaptations, and markers of muscle hypertrophy in resistance-trained males.

Methods
In a randomized and double blind manner, 31 resistance-trained male subjects (22.1 ± 5.0 years, 180 ± 0.1 cm, 86.1 ± 13.0 kg, 18.1 ± 6.4% body fat) ingested either a placebo (PLA: 1 g·day-1 corn oil, n = 16) or AA (AA: 1 g·day-1 AA, n = 15) while participating in a standardized 4 day·week-1 resistance training regimen. Fasting blood samples, body composition, bench press one-repetition maximum (1RM), leg press 1RM and Wingate anaerobic capacity sprint tests were completed after 0, 25, and 50 days of supplementation. Percutaneous muscle biopsies were taken from the vastus lateralis on days 0 and 50.

Results
Wingate relative peak power was significantly greater after 50 days of supplementation while the inflammatory cytokine IL-6 was significantly lower after 25 days of supplementation in the AA group. PGE2 levels tended to be greater in the AA group. However, no statistically significant differences were observed between groups in body composition, strength, anabolic and catabolic hormones, or markers of muscle hypertrophy (i.e. total protein content or MHC type I, IIa, and IIx protein content) and other intramuscular markers (i.e. FP and EP3 receptor density or MHC type I, IIa, and IIx mRNA expression).

Conclusion
AA supplementation during resistance-training may enhance anaerobic capacity and lessen the inflammatory response to training. However, AA supplementation did not promote statistically greater gains in strength, muscle mass, or influence markers of muscle hypertrophy.

[acecombact1]

Take a look at the graph...


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...562/figure/F1/

[dbone1026]

I have a log on X-facor somewhere here from back 2006 when it first came out. I got modest results. But the study here points out that ArA only lowered inflmation at 1g/day for 50 days. Seems like an expensive fish oil!!
.

Lowers inflammation? I thought ArA was the opposite (i.e an inflammatory), which is the reason why you avoid anti-inflammatories (such as fish oil, etc...)

Also, would be more interested to see exactly what the dosing protocol was for the test subjects when using ArA

[Daycrawler]

I have a log on X-facor somewhere here from back 2006 when it first came out. I got modest results. But the study here points out that ArA only lowered inflmation at 1g/day for 50 days. Seems like an expensive fish oil!!

----------------------------------

Effects of arachidonic acid supplementation on training adaptations in resistance-trained males

Received October 15, 2007; Accepted November 28, 2007.
Copyright © 2007 Roberts et al; licensee BioMed Central Ltd.This is an Open Access article distributed under the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution License (http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.0), which permits unrestricted use, distribution, and reproduction in any medium, provided the original work is properly cited.

Go to:Abstract.Background
To determine the impact of AA supplementation during resistance training on body composition, training adaptations, and markers of muscle hypertrophy in resistance-trained males.

Methods
In a randomized and double blind manner, 31 resistance-trained male subjects (22.1 ± 5.0 years, 180 ± 0.1 cm, 86.1 ± 13.0 kg, 18.1 ± 6.4% body fat) ingested either a placebo (PLA: 1 g·day-1 corn oil, n = 16) or AA (AA: 1 g·day-1 AA, n = 15) while participating in a standardized 4 day·week-1 resistance training regimen. Fasting blood samples, body composition, bench press one-repetition maximum (1RM), leg press 1RM and Wingate anaerobic capacity sprint tests were completed after 0, 25, and 50 days of supplementation. Percutaneous muscle biopsies were taken from the vastus lateralis on days 0 and 50.

Results
Wingate relative peak power was significantly greater after 50 days of supplementation while the inflammatory cytokine IL-6 was significantly lower after 25 days of supplementation in the AA group. PGE2 levels tended to be greater in the AA group. However, no statistically significant differences were observed between groups in body composition, strength, anabolic and catabolic hormones, or markers of muscle hypertrophy (i.e. total protein content or MHC type I, IIa, and IIx protein content) and other intramuscular markers (i.e. FP and EP3 receptor density or MHC type I, IIa, and IIx mRNA expression).

Conclusion
AA supplementation during resistance-training may enhance anaerobic capacity and lessen the inflammatory response to training. However, AA supplementation did not promote statistically greater gains in strength, muscle mass, or influence markers of muscle hypertrophy.

Looks like they don't say anything about the dosing scheme...

[acecombact1]

Lowers inflammation? I thought ArA was the opposite (i.e an inflammatory), which is the reason why you avoid anti-inflammatories (such as fish oil, etc...)

Also, would be more interested to see exactly what the dosing protocol was for the test subjects when using ArA

Yes in theory, ArA converts prostaglandin PGF2alpha, which is pro-inflamatory. However in the study they found a slight increase in PGF2alpha, and reduction in inflammatory cytokine IL-6!!!


Not clear, but the take home message is that ArA didnt do much in terms of muscle gains

[acecombact1]

Looks like they don't say anything about the dosing scheme...

Im sorry, but did you actualy read the abstract!! It states AA: 1 g·day for 50 days

[dbone1026]

Im sorry, but did you actualy read the abstract!! It states AA: 1 g·day for 50 days

Timing is what we are talking about. Recommended dosage is 30-45minutes pre, so is that what the controlled subjects used, was the dosage spread out throughout the day, etc...

[Dewey99]

Im sorry, but did you actualy read the abstract!! It states AA: 1 g·day for 50 days

They are referring to dosage timing. Did the test subjects take the 1g of ArA preworkout or at some other time?

[Daycrawler]

Im sorry, but did you actualy read the abstract!! It states AA: 1 g·day for 50 days

I'm sorry but did you read where they indicated When they took it? It makes a difference, it's been since discussed that to maximize ArA benefits it needs to be taken pre-workout. It also should be taken w/ GMS and a L-Carnitine source to maximize the benefit. There is a long thread in which Neuron discussed the reasons for this.

Did you actually read the entire study or just the abstract? I just skimmed the entire study. They did not specify that anywhere. The users also self-reported the workouts, so it's always an issue in these types of studies w/ false reporting. Not to mention that the bodyfat % of the ArA group was significantly higher then the Placebo group. One can draw a simple social connection that perhaps the placebo group who had a lower bodyfat %.. ~4% less had been training for a longer time and had cleaner diets. I'm just pointing out some flaws I see in the study compared to the ancedotal reports from users, including myself that have seen benefits from ArA.

[TMac26]

The addition of GMS and LCLT is based purely on theory. There is not proven method dictating its the best way to take ArA.


Having done both (with and without) I noticed zero difference between the two.

[Daycrawler]

The addition of GMS and LCLT is based purely on theory. There is not proven method dictating its the best way to take ArA.


Having done both (with and without) I noticed zero difference between the two.

Correct, sorry If I seemed to indicate otherwise.

Most supplementation techniques are based upon theory as well.

[dbone1026]

The addition of GMS and LCLT is based purely on theory. There is not proven method dictating its the best way to take ArA.


Having done both (with and without) I noticed zero difference between the two.

Agreed as well.

[TMac26]

Correct, sorry If I seemed to indicate otherwise.

Most supplementation techniques are based upon theory as well.

Which is true. Just don't want people to think they need GMS and LCLT to run X-Gels. It might put them over the budget on planning a run of it and deter them from trying it out.


I plan on running multiple cycles of it

[Dewey99]

Which is true. Just don't want people to think they need GMS and LCLT to run X-Gels. It might put them over the budget on planning a run of it and deter them from trying it out.


I plan on running multiple cycles of it

You using Powershock too?

[TMac26]

You using Powershock too?

I've been using Powershock for like a good solid year and half. Before I became a rep I bought all 10 tubs GNC had last spring on closeout sale (9 bucks a tub)

[dbone1026]

I've been using Powershock for like a good solid year and half. Before I became a rep I bought all 10 tubs GNC had last spring on closeout sale (9 bucks a tub)

^ Good stuff. Stocked up on 3 tubs before Lime is no more