Genetics Debate??? The Reason Or The Excuse...

[TheSheepdog]

o.k. lets throw down on this genetics issue.

Many of us have different ideas when it comes to genetics and the potential of a person, natural or otherwise, but lets discuss what the gentics of a person really determines.

is it an excuse for not being as big or strong as someone else?

is it the excuse that guys give when they cant achieve what you have achieve or what an ifbb pro has achieved, because those guys have the most superior genetics in the world?

is it the reason that IFBB Pros are were there at now, because of their genetics as opppose to Joe Shmoe whos on the same dosage, eating the same amount, and busting his ass just as hard?

my two cents:
i'm getting tired of people saying so and so has good genetics or so and so doesn't, the sht makes no sense.
WE DONT KNOW, sht they dont know.
what it does by saying that, is that it downplays what that person has done with their training and dieting, it lessons the effort and the sweat that person has put in to be were they are at.

on the other hand
Joe Muscle trains just as hard as Billy Biceps, eat the same amount, rest, etc, etc, but billy biceps guns and quads are huge compared to Joe Muscle, but damnit Joe Muscle knows his strengths and knows that if he works hard he can have huge guns too, they wont be structured like Billy Biceps, but they'll be huge....so genetics does play a part.

were do you guys stand on genetics the reason or the excuse?
lets keep it clean, ty

[duganator]

dude, genetics is like half the reason whether or not people get big...some people continually respond to steroids and have tons of open receptor sites, while others have to keep adding to see any new gains...trust me man, your making genetics seem like no big deal, but its huge...

[Mush]

Genetics is the single most important factor.

[LT1PowerD]

is it an excuse for not being as big or strong as someone else?

is it the excuse that guys give when they cant achieve what you have achieve or what an ifbb pro has achieved, because those guys have the most superior genetics in the world?

Everybody is different and anyone out of elementary should know that not everyone can do what some people can. If two guys have similiar eating habits training patterns and everything else -- which never happens -- then that might be a valid excuse. However how you eat, train, rest, comes down to how motivated and dedicated you are, and you wont find enough people fully motivated to be able to talk seriously about what happens after you are fully motivated.

is it the reason that IFBB Pros are were there at now, because of their genetics as opppose to Joe Shmoe whos on the same dosage, eating the same amount, and busting his ass just as hard?

Well first we have to assume Joe Shmoe has a desire to compete. If so there should be little reason he can't get into the ranks. Most people with "good" genetics, dont have it so good they are doing nothing and winning contest.

my two cents:
i'm getting tired of people saying so and so has good genetics or so and so doesn't, the sht makes no sense.
WE DONT KNOW, sht they dont know.
what it does by saying that, is that it downplays what that person has done with their training and dieting, it lessons the effort and the sweat that person has put in to be were they are at.

I pretty much agree.

One more thing though. No one ever defines "good genetics" there are dozens of genetic factors that can be beneficial in a bodybuilding lifestyle;

How easily you grow
How easily you cut
Bone structure
Recovery abilities
Endurance abilities
Natural atheleticism

I would say there are enough that for the average lifter its no excuse. Even if Im a Dexter Jackson and can stay cut to all hell, if you're exploiting your endurance, or size there is no reason you should not be able to keep up.

[DomzyCuttin]

How are genetics not noticable, you can take a look and see if someone has a short bicep, low lats, high quads, full triceps, short ab attachments, 4 pack, 6 pack, or 8 pack, muscle shape, hip width, shoulder width, high calves, this is all relatively easy to point out on a moderatly developed physique... And I believe genetics are the number one reason a pro is a pro, number 2 being drugs, 3 diet/training.

[bbjeff86]

I agree, I absolutely HATE the genetic excuse. Obviosly they play a mojor role, and some people are more gifted than others (Phil Heath perhaps as an example). But I get sick of people complaining that they can't get as big as me at school because their genetics suck. Then I ask how often they eat, and they'll say like 3 meals per day, and only workout 3-4 times per week, with no variety... but yea it must be there genetics.

My point is this genetics can help you out alot and make things easier, but it is my belief with enough time and dedication the average person can build a pro caliber body (either with conditioning, size, asthetics, ect...)

Here are a couple examples of pro's with "bad genetics" as some may consider them:
high lat attachment (Dexter Jackson, Dennis James to some degree)
Wide waist- Art Atwood, Jay Cutler
Blocky triceps- Markus Ruhl, Ronnie Coleman to some degree
being to short- Lee Preist, Dave Henry
Being to Tall- Quincy Taylor, Gunter

[John Prophet]

think about calves.....you can go to the mall on any given day and see people with 18" calves who have never lifted weights once in their lives...then you have guys who will NEVER have 18" calves no matter what they do (or take)

[AK-Grinds]

Genetics is the single most important factor.

enough said

Get real fellas, we have all been around people that were born big...Guys that have never touched a weight in there life, yet are bigger/stronger then most..

Saying your genetics suck aint no excuse...Ive worked my ass off in the gym and the kitchen for 4 years now, and have packed on some muscle, but still get dwarfed by some of my buddies that chain smoke ciggarettes and drink beer all day.....It absolutely sucks having narrow shoulders, and extra small bones, and being an extreme ectomorph..

My one buddy is weak as hell in the weightroom, becouse he hardly lifts, doesnt eat right, etc...Yet, if you saw him walking down the street, you would give him that "I know you pay your dues in the weightroom" nod...Hes just naturally big...Everyonce in a while he will go on a month spurt where he lifts consistently for a few weeks, but still has no concept of proper diet...Dude gets big quick

This is just one example of the many out there...You can add muscle to your frame no matter the genetics, but some people are able to add alot more muscle, more quickly...

Gimme a break fellas, if you dont realize genetics play a HUGE factor in bodybuilding, then you have no basic concept of the sport

[AK-Grinds]

I agree, I absolutely HATE the genetic excuse. Obviosly they play a mojor role, and some people are more gifted than others (Phil Heath perhaps as an example). But I get sick of people complaining that they can't get as big as me at school because their genetics suck. Then I ask how often they eat, and they'll say like 3 meals per day, and only workout 3-4 times per week, with no variety... but yea it must be there genetics.

My point is this genetics can help you out alot and make things easier, but it is my belief with enough time and dedication the average person can build a pro caliber body (either with conditioning, size, asthetics, ect...)

Here are a couple examples of pro's with "bad genetics" as some may consider them:
high lat attachment (Dexter Jackson, Dennis James to some degree)
Wide waist- Art Atwood, Jay Cutler
Blocky triceps- Markus Ruhl, Ronnie Coleman to some degree
being to short- Lee Preist, Dave Henry
Being to Tall- Quincy Taylor, Gunter

Every single guy you mentioned above as superior genetics

Without a lot of hard work and drugs they arnt where they are at today, but the majority of people in this world cant get as big as any of the top BBs today, no matter how many gallons of test/deca/insulin/gh they pump in the backside or how hard the work out or how much time they spend in the kitchen

[maqman]

U can ask this from any Pro bodybuilder, U need two things to become a pro bodybuilder: THE WILL, GENETICS

[pinchharmonic]

The thread poster has a good point. Don't bitch about it unless you specifcally are in the scenario where your workout buddy with similar training / nutrition is just owning you.

I buddy of mine a year younger than i am maxed out 375 on the bench and repped 315 on the bench. didn't really know what he was doing at the gym, and ate pizza fries and orange juice daily. THe guy was 5 10 170 probably aroudn 5% bodyfat. He looked like a huge bruce lee. not one of those asian guys that just gets bulky and fat, he was always broad and lean.

but anyway, you still have to realize genetic variation is what makes us who we are. you cannot naively think, that we're all "pretty much the same", when in fact there are SO MANY of us but none of us are identical.

I hear ppl posting "genetics doesn't matter, it's all about heart". Again a naive assumption by either someone wtih good genetics, or soemoen that just wants to sound cool but doesn't even work out.

To me thinking you can become anytihng as long as you train hard is analagous to me (asian guy) going to tan everyday and somehow becoming a brother -- it's just not going to happen. i will never look like a brother even in my skin tone which we all know we can easily change with exposure to sun, i think i am even less likely to look like one after weight training.

[heftizzle]

I do not want to hear genetics this or genetics that. I can't gain weight, I can't get stong. You eat big to get big. You train hard to get strong. What is stoping anybody. We all know that the pros and some national level guys have better genetics. I think I can get there. It will just take longer. I am not bitching I hate that crap. I am doing something about it. It does not matter when you get there but if you get there.

armymuscle01, props to you and a legit thread!!!!

[LT1PowerD]

The thread poster has a good point. Don't bitch about it unless you specifcally are in the scenario where your workout buddy with similar training / nutrition is just owning you.

Right. For any two guys in the gym, its difficult to know who has "better genetics", unless one of them is the occasional guy who throws twice his weight around and doesent break a sweat.

Additionally I dont trust much the pros say. We all had that one kid in the neighborhood who was far and wide a better athlete then the rest of us, but im pretty sure they don't all grow up and become Mr. Olympia. Or the top in any other sport.

You must first want it.

[yngwie]

Dorian Yates is proof genetics arent THAT big of a deal. Ever seen a pic of him when he was a teenager? Scrawny as a twig. You would have never in a million years guessed he would become the monster that he was

[Vinex]

Armymuscle i agree with you to an extent, where genetics can help out but should not be an excuse. For example, everyone says here its about genetics and training hard. NO. Its about training smart. You can train as hard as you want but if your doing the wrong excercises then your genetic defaults will get worse.

Eg: My case of genetics is that upper chest grows slower ten my lower chest (yes even with inclines) so i incorparted many excerices to hit that part of my chest. Finally, i am now seeing improvement. This is the same with everyone where some parts will be different from others. All you have to do is train smart to maximise your genetic potential and erase your genetic flaws.

[dirquedong]

is it the excuse that guys give when they cant achieve what you have achieve or what an ifbb pro has achieved, because those guys have the most superior genetics in the world?

I agree with you that genetics plays a big role in who can and cannot gain muscle. However, I do not agree that ifbb pros necessarily have the most superior genetics for bodybuilding in the world. Very few people ever consider bodybuilding as a career. Very few people are willing to take the enormous volume of illegal substances necessary to compete at the pro level. The current pros have the best genetics of all current bodybuilders, but I'm sure there are plenty of people in more lucrative sports, particularly professional football, who, when pumped full of steroids, GH, insulin, diuretics, etc. could put most current pros to shame. I mean, have you seen some of the kids that are playing high school football these days? I'm a huge fan of college football, so I always check up on the latest high school recruiting news. The stats on some of these kids are sick. It's not uncommon to see high school kids that are 6' 220 ripped benching 400. It's unbelievable. When you have genetics like that, you don't go into professional bodybuilding.

[MCWlightsout]

Jay cutler says the first year he started training he put on 50 pounds (muscle fat, what have you) either way thats a lot considering an average newbie to training might put on 10 pounds in a year.

Genetics play a big role in how much you will grow, how big your joints are, height, even health conditions believe it good genetics help and make gains easier for some.

As far as muscle defintion some people might not ever lift weights in there life but from their life style have really cut and shaped muscles. Genetics probably helping especially if they are not even training to look the way they look.

[pu12en12g]

Genetics Debate??? The Reason Or The Excuse...

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=720382

[tonich03]

Genetics are so important, that you better not really get into it, or you might get depressed lol.
Like in my sig, I think that you have to take in mind your strong points and use it: e.g. if you maintain mass easily, well then near to starve to cut lol or something like it.

[MrMetabolism]

genetics play a big role in bodybuilding...

however i think alot of you vaginas confuse genetics with PROPER diet and exercise, steroids and food work for EVERYBODY not just those with good genetics

just cause you have a friend whose "big" but doesnt lift weights doesnt mean he doesnt get necessary growth stimulation from other activities

WAY too many people use genetics as an excuse for lazy workout practices and ****ty diet, stop your pussy bitchin and make some corrections in your routine

[stealth_swimmer]

Dorian Yates is proof genetics arent THAT big of a deal. Ever seen a pic of him when he was a teenager? Scrawny as a twig. You would have never in a million years guessed he would become the monster that he was

I hate it when ppl say Dorian had bad genetics. If he had bad genetics then he would never become a Mr. Olympia. He had the ability to put on muscle at an astounding rate and could hold a lot of size. He may have started small, but his bone structure was thick and had the ability to hold lots of size. The only bad thing about those genetics is that it wasn't the prettiest frame.

Anyhow, I agree with most of you saying that you shouldn't whine about genetics. Train hard and train smart. Some people use it as an excuse while others use it for motivation. You might ever be as good as someone else in particular, but you can certainly improve. Too many people complain about bad genetics and pretty much give up or just go through the motions. If you have it so bad, then you should do your best to improve. That's how I see it.

[heftizzle]

Lets not talk about football players and how they are clean. Joe Weider said it best, "They are all on drugs." They can't test for HGH or insulin and they can get away with alot of juice. Just go down to mexico during the offseason and train. There are some freaks out there but not as many as you think. You have to go with what elykdogg said "stop your pussy bitchin."

[TheSheepdog]

For some some of the guys who are pissed off at me because of my post, i tried to make it as unbias as possible to make it debatable, by showing numerous veiw points on the topic. I felt it was good to discuss and because this is the IFBB section and a lot is said about genetics being so important that it would make a good discussion..so lets keep it clean

[str8flexed]

99% of the time it is an excuse

[AangleN]

99% of the time it is an excuse

i agree. everyone has weak points and strong points. now clearly, there are some people with great genes and some with bad genes, but think of a distribution. the tails are very thin, whereas the meat of the curve is very thick.

i see no reason why 99% of people cannot develop a very good if not great physique if they really want to. problem is, most people (esp in the US) are very lazy and always want the quick fix.

[Cyclops]

Some people have different attributes in terms of recovery, muscle shape, bone structure, but we are all essentially the same and therefore we should all be training in the same manner.

I agree with what's already been said in regard to people reaction to genetics, most guys will have a whinge and complain, but to say you have bad genetics is ridiculous, everyone should train hard and do their best with what's been given. If you want to see bad genetics you should visit a hospital and see what kind of deformities people can be born with.

And anyway, a lot of the time you'll only know what kind of genetics you have once you've reached your full potential.

Edit: I think it's a good idea to keep things in perspective and not over-do it in the attempt of somehow working harder and dedicating more and more to 'make up' for genetic weaknesses. I've seen some guys on here who spend $100's and $100's on bs supps and spend 2 hours in the gym a day to get swole. With that time and money you could have got yourself a friggen masters degree.

[Cyclops]

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=720382

lol, you honestly think something like myostatin will be allowed to be used by the crock of **** supp companies? The FDA will be all over it if it's ever released.

[str8flexed]

i agree. everyone has weak points and strong points. now clearly, there are some people with great genes and some with bad genes, but think of a distribution. the tails are very thin, whereas the meat of the curve is very thick.

i see no reason why 99% of people cannot develop a very good if not great physique if they really want to. problem is, most people (esp in the US) are very lazy and always want the quick fix.

absolutely correct

[BigArmedFella]

i agree. everyone has weak points and strong points. now clearly, there are some people with great genes and some with bad genes, but think of a distribution. the tails are very thin, whereas the meat of the curve is very thick.

i see no reason why 99% of people cannot develop a very good if not great physique if they really want to. problem is, most people (esp in the US) are very lazy and always want the quick fix.

I agree w/ you about people being lazy. I agree that 99% of the population could achieve a great body if they'd get off the couch. BUT, genetics are what separates top level national competitors and the people who can't even qualify for a national show by placing well in a local show.

[ZaneWannabe]

Alright, here's my two cents: 90% of the people on this board have the GENETIC capacity to be more well-developed than all but the pros who post here. If they all trained hard, dieted properly, didn't make excuses, and, at the highest levels, took gear, they could get past ANY genetic weakness and have a dynamite physique.

HOWEVER, at the pro level, genetics starts to take on a more important role. When you're looking at 20 guys who all have outstanding bodies, the smaller things like wide waists, blocky tris, high calves/lats, and the other nitpicky genetic factors start to show more.

Long story short, if any amateur bodybuilder or recreational lifter thinks they can't have a great body because of genetics, they are dead wrong. They are either not working hard enough, or, more likely, not doing all the little things you have to do outside the weight room. At the pro level, though, there are some people who will simply never win a Mr. Olympia because of genetics.