Putting Mike Mentzers HIT to the test

[Dominik]

The whole b.s. of "we're against Ron only because he's selling an ebook" is just that, b.s.. Their true agenda is to bash something because it's HIT and thus runs contrary to their beliefs. If they were really out to prevent folks from being "conned" then why do you think Dominik DEFENDED Joel H's Musclenow scam when I pointed out (as did many others here) that he's running a $200 con?

www.musclenow.com - note the lengths gone to bash HIT. Had this been a pro-HIT program, you'd have seen the D brothers go to great lengths to discredit it.

You're distorting the facts now Ronald.

re: the Musclenow thread, there was nothing to defend. I don't know anything about the system other than Joel H uses it and you were trolling his thread. I just wanted him to know who you were since you were on his thread busting his balls over a $20 referral when ironically your book sells for $20 which you were actively promoting until you were busted for it. You sounded frustrated that someone else was making money off a book. I also pointed out that at least he was open about it. To this day you still deny you're Rob "$19.95 HIT FAQ via Paypal" Spector after everything that has happened. That's why we're on your case.

Find a HIT thread I'm on that you're not posting in. If I was on an anti-HIT crusade like you say, wouldn't I be on other threads sharing my thoughts? My problem is with you, nobody else. You still haven't figured that out yet. You're the one with tunnel vision since you refuse to discuss anything but HIT. Meanwhile I've discussed thousands of topics and my posting history will back that up. Judging by how many people are on your ignore list, it's obvious I'm not the one with the problem here.

[Defiant1]

You're distorting the facts now Ronald.

re: the Musclenow thread, there was nothing to defend. I don't know anything about the system other than Joel H uses it and you were trolling his thread. I just wanted him to know who you were since you were on his thread busting his balls over a $20 referral when ironically your book sells for $20 which you were actively promoting until you were busted for it. You sounded frustrated that someone else was making money off a book. I also pointed out that at least he was open about it. To this day you still deny you're Rob "$19.95 HIT FAQ via Paypal" Spector after everything that has happened. That's why we're on your case.

Find a HIT thread I'm on that you're not posting in. If I was on an anti-HIT crusade like you say, wouldn't I be on other threads sharing my thoughts? My problem is with you, nobody else. You still haven't figured that out yet. You're the one with tunnel vision since you refuse to discuss anything but HIT. Meanwhile I've discussed thousands of topics and my posting history will back that up. Judging by how many people are on your ignore list, it's obvious I'm not the one with the problem here.

What's even funnier is the ONE post I had in the thread states skepticism.

LOL at Ron/Robs "creds" and "examples".

[Dominik]

What's even funnier is the ONE post I had in the thread states skepticism.

LOL at Ron/Robs "creds" and "examples".

I noticed Dr. Ken is back in his signature. He's obviously reading us loud and clear

[DRush]

Yea I'm with you there. my only reservations about this programme are the off days. I really hate not doing anything at times so taking that long to do a simple cycle will probably get me down a bit but i guess I'll see how it goes.

Yes they are tough I agree with cpa5oh about the feeling outside the gym on this sytem vs the HVT. I dont know how many days rest mentzert took, but he does mention that he rested 3 days maybe 2. I know he said no more than 2 times per week. i may move the rest periods up to 3 days.

[DRush]

It's possible. Many variables are involved.



Guys like DF1 were bashing HIT long before I came on here. He even made it a point to state he'd go "out of his way" to "bash" HITers. Now there's a mature statement, huh?

If you go back and read the threads (I wouldn't waste my time though) you'll see that guys like Dominik got *extremely* upset when all people like myself said that things like working out "only" 2x/week are very effective for a lot of folks. I'd get nonsensical replies like, "well, that's debatable".

No, it's not "debatable". Once again we get these folks insisting that gains in size/strength didn't happen.

The whole b.s. of "we're against Ron only because he's selling an ebook" is just that, b.s.. Their true agenda is to bash something because it's HIT and thus runs contrary to their beliefs. If they were really out to prevent folks from being "conned" then why do you think Dominik DEFENDED Joel H's Musclenow scam when I pointed out (as did many others here) that he's running a $200 con?

www.musclenow.com - note the lengths gone to bash HIT. Had this been a pro-HIT program, you'd have seen the D brothers go to great lengths to discredit it.



Here's another key point that many folks here haven't accepted: Mentzer has HIS system which is BASED on HIT principles. He's the most known in bodybuilding, but he is not the be all and end all of HIT. Read my sig. There are a ton of HIT advocates each with their own different unique approaches to things. We can only speak of general principles when discussing.

For e.g., aerobics. Guys like Matt Brzycki highly recommend doing aerobics.



Jones talked about HIT before he created the first Nautilus machine. In fact, he published the results he achieved with folks like Casey Viator with FREE WEIGHTS and UNIVERSAL machines. If he was intent only on selling machines, why would he mention the name of a competitor so often?

The nonsense about "Jones created HIT to sell machines" is just that, nonsense. It was initially propagated by Fred Hatfield, and there's a whole story behind that one. How ironic that Hatfield claimed Jones was doing things for commercial interests, when he has been involved in some of the greatest fiascos like the Anabolic Mega-Pak scam.

And again, Jones is only one guy who was right on many things, not correct on others, as I've said repeatedly. If you want more info on HIT you should look up names like:

Dr. Ken Leistner
Matt Brzycki
Dan Riley
Bill Piche
Stu McRobert

for starters

Also a TON of info on hardgainer.com

Well not to put you on the spot Ron, Dominik, and Defiant, but Im just curious what are your personal stats, weights used and age. I just wanted to see where all you are comming from in terms of background.Thanks

[the iron addict]

God you guys will argue until the cows come home about anything that doesn't fit your idea about "proper training". I think Mike Mentzers HIT method is poorly designed. It is not something I would reccomend in the long-term. BUT...I think it can be a great change of pace as long as one understands its limitations. Want something low volume high intensity that works on the long-term? Use DC's system. But DYAMN, must you spend all day long trying to bust each others balls over nothing

BTW, I think WESTSIDE BARBELL is THE most well balanced lifting system. That doesn't mean I will spend all day fighting with some guy that trains progressive PL'ing style, 5 x 5, or mid-level volume BB'ing because its not my cup of tea

Iron Addict

[DRush]

God you guys will argue until the cows come home about anything that doesn't fit your idea about "proper training". I think Mike Mentzers HIT method is poorly designed. It is not something I would reccomend in the long-term. BUT...I think it can be a great change of pace as long as one understands its limitations. Want something low volume high intensity that works on the long-term? Use DC's system. But DYAMN, must you spend all day long trying to bust each others balls over nothing

BTW, I think WESTSIDE BARBELL is THE most well balanced lifting system. That doesn't mean I will spend all day fighting with some guy that trains progressive PL'ing style, 5 x 5, or mid-level volume BB'ing because its not my cup of tea

Iron Addict

Finally a breath of fresh air

[Ron Schwarz]

Finally a breath of fresh air

Seriously. You gotta question why it is that some people are so concerned over what approach you take.

Worry about your own training, not somebody else's. The persistent desire to bash HIT really is of no value to anyone. The FACT is that people both on this board and off have made great gains in strength and size using it.

All the arguing in the world won't change this. Why this bothers some folks so much is beyond me. Perhaps it's a topic for a research paper.

That's why I put those guys on ignore. What's the point of arguing all the time? I prefer to discuss things with folks who are interested in learning, not those who talk because they have an immature need to demonstrate that they are somehow "experts". Note that the real experts are usually (not always) pretty humble and low key.

[Ron Schwarz]

almost forgot.

This site is now publishing Matt Brzycki's *awesome* series "Reflections of a HITer". You will get a LOT more insight into what HIT is, beyond the stereotypical "Jones/darden/Mentzer".

"More propaganda!!!!!"

Yeah, whatever. It's free, and if you don't like it, don't read it. Go back to the cave.

[Dominik]

God you guys will argue until the cows come home about anything that doesn't fit your idea about "proper training". I think Mike Mentzers HIT method is poorly designed. It is not something I would reccomend in the long-term. BUT...I think it can be a great change of pace as long as one understands its limitations. Want something low volume high intensity that works on the long-term? Use DC's system. But DYAMN, must you spend all day long trying to bust each others balls over nothing

BTW, I think WESTSIDE BARBELL is THE most well balanced lifting system. That doesn't mean I will spend all day fighting with some guy that trains progressive PL'ing style, 5 x 5, or mid-level volume BB'ing because its not my cup of tea

Nah, not interested in busting anyone's balls, just Ron's. I've read some of your posts and couldn't find anything to disagree with even if I wanted to, but the fact is you still tell it like it is and not everyone is going to agree with it. I don't think we're doing anything different on this thread. Besides, someone's got to keep the Schwarzinator honest

[Dominik]

Well not to put you on the spot Ron, Dominik, and Defiant, but Im just curious what are your personal stats, weights used and age. I just wanted to see where all you are comming from in terms of background.Thanks

Age: Ron's age when he first started watching Dallas
Weight: 225lbs (6'1")
Lifts: Not into posting stats because it sounds like bragging but if money was involved I'd enter a contest with Ron, winner takes all

[Defiant1]

Well not to put you on the spot Ron, Dominik, and Defiant, but Im just curious what are your personal stats, weights used and age. I just wanted to see where all you are comming from in terms of background.Thanks

I am 40 5' 11" and 240. (actually between 235 and 242)

And unlike others, I have actually DONE the programs that I criticize and am not making money off of selling any particular program.

[Defiant1]

God you guys will argue until the cows come home about anything that doesn't fit your idea about "proper training". I think Mike Mentzers HIT method is poorly designed. It is not something I would reccomend in the long-term. BUT...I think it can be a great change of pace as long as one understands its limitations. Want something low volume high intensity that works on the long-term? Use DC's system. But DYAMN, must you spend all day long trying to bust each others balls over nothing

BTW, I think WESTSIDE BARBELL is THE most well balanced lifting system. That doesn't mean I will spend all day fighting with some guy that trains progressive PL'ing style, 5 x 5, or mid-level volume BB'ing because its not my cup of tea

Iron Addict

You missed the start of all of this, but let's just say it involved someone whose initials are "RS" telling me he ****ed my mom, and that person telling me to "Google" muscle function (he was incorrect by the way lol).

You and I have discussed this before. My problem with HIT is the idea that it is the best program, and that those who don't do it are somehow lacking in logic or efficiency-despite the experience and flat out anecdote against it.

And given what we know about how the muscles and nervous system interact, there is much evidence AGAINST it's use. Like someone entrenching themselves in non-contiguous innervation and refusing to acknowledge anything else could be possible.

And ball busting is entertaining.

[Awnold79]

Somebody asked about stats.....let me be the first HITTER to respond.

Age: 26
Height: 5'10
Weight: 232lbs
Years training: 6
Don't want to get into weights.............we'll leave it at VERY HEAVY.....with my rep ranges for upper body being 6-10 and lower body 6-12.

Significant changes over the past 5 months of using HIT.

[Rane14]

Okay, just looking at your sig tells me all I need to know.

wow strong statement

[Defiant1]

Well not to put you on the spot Ron, Dominik, and Defiant, but Im just curious what are your personal stats, weights used and age. I just wanted to see where all you are comming from in terms of background.Thanks

I'm 85, can take my teeth out, like to be spanked and haven't had a solid bowel movement in years. I like long walks in the park, cuddling, hamsters and puppies. I am a Pisces and like Chinese food but it gives me gas.

Please stick to the subject Rob/Ron.

[DRush]

wow strong statement

Don't take it the wrong way but what experience do you have to come here and make a statement like you did? Try HIT style workouts then report if you get hurt or not. Gotta speak from experience, not hersay.

[DRush]

Please stick to the subject Rob/Ron.

I couldn't even find the post that you quoted Ron from.LOL funny though. I laughed my ass off when I read his name: Rob/Ron Schwarzenspector

[Dominik]

I'm 85, can take my teeth out, like to be spanked and haven't had a solid bowel movement in years. I like long walks in the park, cuddling, hamsters and puppies. I am a Pisces and like Chinese food but it gives me gas.

I wonder how close that is to the truth?

[Ron Schwarz]

I couldn't even find the post that you quoted Ron from.LOL funny though. I laughed my ass off when I read his name: Rob/Ron Schwarzenspector

Yes, DF1 is funny. I did get entertainment value from reading his posts. He sure is obsessed with me for some reason. Some could view his posts as being homoerotic given his obsession. I'm sure he's some teenager with lots of time on his hands, quoting things from his muscle comic book collection.

It's tempting to take him off "ignore" to read his latest rants and raves, but then people will question why I start cracking up at work.

[Henry_s return]

I still wanna know why only a small percentage of athletes use HIT principles. It isn't for a lack of exposure to it. The fact remains, most sports require explosive power and agility, whether it be tennis or olympic weightlifting. Oh, oh. I said the "E" word. Ron don't go "balistic" on me.

[Rane14]

Don't take it the wrong way but what experience do you have to come here and make a statement like you did? Try HIT style workouts then report if you get hurt or not. Gotta speak from experience, not hersay.

I have tried HIT, can't beleive anyone would consider doign it for any sport...there will be no way you will perform your best if you do an intense failure HIT workout one day and still expect to perform at your best in a couple days. I did make some small gains when I did it, it was a change of pace but watever.

[cpa5oh]

I still wanna know why only a small percentage of athletes use HIT principles. It isn't for a lack of exposure to it. The fact remains, most sports require explosive power and agility, whether it be tennis or olympic weightlifting. Oh, oh. I said the "E" word. Ron don't go "balistic" on me.

I'm not the expert, and I've only been using Mentzer's HIT for two weeks, but Mentzer from what I've read has only referred to it as the best "bodybuilding exercise." He goes on to say, essentially, that if you do anything beyond the workout he prescribes (aerobics, etc.) you'll be sabotaging your gains by cutting into your recovery ability. Competitive athletes by their very nature are doing aerobic exercise/more work outside the weight room...so I wouldn't think Mentzer would prescribe this to an athlete.

After doing the leg workout twice I can tell you that there is no way in hell that I would do this type of routine if I were still a competitive athlete. You simply cannot be as sore two and three days after a workout as a competitive athlete as you can as, say, an accountant.

And any HIT routines I've ever read had included as necessary slow repetitions (because they want the muscle to move the weight only.) I don't think you can build power doing 6 second repetitions...it forces you to handle less weight automatically. Mentzer talking about strength gains as being the primary measure of improvement on his system reminds me of a Dogg Crap post...where he basically says that a guy going from a 150 lb. bench press to 400 lbs. is going to have grown very much. Same with this system...if you go from 150 to 400 using this system you'll see big size gains, which isn't to say that it is the best program for strength.

I can't speak to Arthur Jones...I never had any success with a Jones-like routine.

[DRush]

Workout #4 Done Thursday morning

Legs and Abs

Leg extensions for pre exhaust:

Previous best 215lb for 12 now did 225 for 13. I felt I could have done more reps maybe 1 more but my thighs was really burning. I then racked the machine for 2 15 sec negatives. I actually said last time the machine racked at 240 I was wrong, its 255. So I did this weight.

Leg Press(substituted for squats in the smith rack)
This excercise even amazed me. My all time best was 315 for 7 as I said last week, I surpassped this last time I did squats with 330 for 7.Well I decided to put on 350 and did it for 9 reps, I was stoked. Before I actually got under the bar I was worried I overestimated what I could have done.But Im very happy with the results.After this I went over the the plate leg press because last week I said I racked the natulias leg press at 500. I put on 16 plates and did 2 15 second negatives with ease, I should have done more.

Standing calf raises

Previous best 225 for 13, now 255 for 13, Following this I put on 375 and did 2 15 second negatives. I made another mistake last time by saying I racked the machine for the negatives at 365, I was wrong the machine actually racks at 395

All sets done strict form, 4 sec negative,1 sec pause at contraction and 2 sec finish.Thanks all for reading will update on Mon if everything goes well.

[Ron Schwarz]

I have tried HIT, can't beleive anyone would consider doign it for any sport...there will be no way you will perform your best if you do an intense failure HIT workout one day and still expect to perform at your best in a couple days. I did make some small gains when I did it, it was a change of pace but watever.

Understandable. That's why NFL and other sports teams have "off-season" and "in-season" training. Higher frequency and volume during the off-season. So if you have a football game on Sunday you'd be in the gym on perhaps only Tues and Thurs.

[Ron Schwarz]

I still wanna know why only a small percentage of athletes use HIT principles.

False statement. Plenty of collegiate and pro athletes use HIT.

It isn't for a lack of exposure to it.

Ah, here's an important point. When the dolts say, "if it works well why isn't everyone using it?" one can say, "what percentage of athletes have even TRIED an HIT workout?"

How many folks even know what "HIT" is?

The fact remains, most sports require explosive power and agility, whether it be tennis or olympic weightlifting.

I think someone needs to read up on "Principle of Specificity".

[the iron addict]

I still wanna know why only a small percentage of athletes use HIT principles. It isn't for a lack of exposure to it. The fact remains, most sports require explosive power and agility, whether it be tennis or olympic weightlifting. Oh, oh. I said the "E" word. Ron don't go "balistic" on me.

Even if it were the best for the average trainee (it's NOT IMO) it would still not be used because the top pro's do not use it, and the average trainee uses a retarded routine lifted strait out of "flex" which is another great way to train NON-productively.

Iron Addict

[cpa5oh]

Workout #4 Done Thursday morning

Legs and Abs

Leg extensions for pre exhaust:

Previous best 215lb for 12 now did 225 for 13. I felt I could have done more reps maybe 1 more but my thighs was really burning. I then racked the machine for 2 15 sec negatives. I actually said last time the machine racked at 240 I was wrong, its 255. So I did this weight.

Leg Press(substituted for squats in the smith rack)
This excercise even amazed me. My all time best was 315 for 7 as I said last week, I surpassped this last time I did squats with 330 for 7.Well I decided to put on 350 and did it for 9 reps, I was stoked. Before I actually got under the bar I was worried I overestimated what I could have done.But Im very happy with the results.After this I went over the the plate leg press because last week I said I racked the natulias leg press at 500. I put on 16 plates and did 2 15 second negatives with ease, I should have done more.

Standing calf raises

Previous best 225 for 13, now 255 for 13, Following this I put on 375 and did 2 15 second negatives. I made another mistake last time by saying I racked the machine for the negatives at 365, I was wrong the machine actually racks at 395

All sets done strict form, 4 sec negative,1 sec pause at contraction and 2 sec finish.Thanks all for reading will update on Mon if everything goes well.

Man I'm really pumped for you.

Can you clarify one thing - you are saying that last leg workout (which would have been eight days ago) you squatted (in the smith machine) with 330 pounds and got 7 reps. This morning you used 350 and got 9 reps. Is that correct?

If I understand your post right that is very, very impressive.

[Defiant1]

Yes, DF1 is funny. I did get entertainment value from reading his posts. He sure is obsessed with me for some reason. Some could view his posts as being homoerotic given his obsession. I'm sure he's some teenager with lots of time on his hands, quoting things from his muscle comic book collection.

It's tempting to take him off "ignore" to read his latest rants and raves, but then people will question why I start cracking up at work.

Yeah, a 40 year old 240 lb teenager that schools your ass like no ones business. Need I provide the links dildonius?

[Defiant1]

Even if it were the best for the average trainee (it's NOT IMO) it would still not be used because the top pro's do not use it, and the average trainee uses a retarded routine lifted strait out of "flex" which is another great way to train NON-productively.

Iron Addict

While failing to mention the necessary drug use involved in performing "Flex" type routines, at least these routines have empirical and anecdotal evidence for their effectiveness. HIT, on the other hand lacks both, at least in any kind of convincing amount.

"Flex" also does not tell everyone else they are stupid for not doing their routines....