A Sunday thread, food for thought, something to chew on like daily bread.

[mtpockets]

.

While Christianity is currently the predominant religion in Latin America, Europe, Canada and the United States, the religion is declining in many of these areas, including Western Europe, North America, and Oceania.

A few months ago we had to drop off and pick up a friend at church that had an injury and couldn’t get themselves there. It was like going to the bank at the end of the month. Mostly all old people with some kids that were probably dragged there. The younger and middle aged crowd was pretty thin from what I saw.

Christianity, the largest religion in the United States, experienced a 20th-century high of 91% of the total population in 1976. This declined to 73.7% by 2016 and 64% in 2022.

Maybe Frank Zappa was correct, it sure seems to be heading in that direction given the numbers above














Any comments?

Keep your sticks on the ice, for all you non hockey fans that means play nice and be respectful.

I am not going to point any fingers, because you know who you are



Why is this happening?

Is Science enlightening people?

Can it bounce back?

[LWW]

Well, the church I went to, the pastors were big and powerful looking. One of them was a athlete discus thrower. Very competitive dude.

He would go all out at church soft ball games etc.

One of our younger members was also a power lifter.

We also had a skinny old man who would run around saying the devil was there because the youth were playing contemporary music. That’s the only reason the youth wanted any part of it, to play in the band. But everyone still loved the crazy devil dude.

He also used to rag on the competition church up the road, as that pastor apparently would ride his Harley into the church during sermon.

I have no interest in church at all. Religion is not faith.

A couple of dudes who are old time strongmen, do thier shows at a church. People will do anything get people into that place.

[LWW]

.






Frank Zappa was correct, it sure seems to be heading in that direction given the numbers above


Why is this happening?

Is Science enlightening people?

Can it bounce back?

What was Zappa right about, what does that mean?

Zappa spoke out against giving all your money to big business rich evangelists and thinking you will be rewarded when you die and the gubmit using religion as propaganda.

He specifically said he had no issues with people believing or going to church if that’s what they liked doing.

If he were alive today he’d be against any of this propaganda including the fastest growing religion- Islam.

[LWW]

Zappa quote “I have a hard time believing there is a guy with white beard rewarding all the good people when they die, this is dangerous propaganda”.

Correct here, and the Bible itself which Zappa mocked also apparently says good works is not needed but faith and repentance.

Repentance to god, not another sinner.

Also our pastor once said, Jesus most likely does not look like those pictures, he’s most likely middle eastern looking.

How bout that Pockets.

And Zappa’s quote was correct. Religion is a propaganda tool to get people to behave and give thier money for thier reward after death.

[Gabbar99]

. Mostly all old people with some kids that were probably dragged there. The younger and middle aged crowd was pretty thin from what I saw.

Just got back from church. Mostly younger and middle aged people.

The demographic migration away from church is real, but it depends on the church. The old-line denominational churches are fading -- but even that varies from church to church -- but there are a lot of churches and church networks that aren't quite "denominations" yet that are thriving.

[Gabbar99]

We also had a skinny old man who would run around saying the devil was there because the youth were playing contemporary music. That’s the only reason the youth wanted any part of it, to play in the band. But everyone still loved the crazy devil dude.

I grew up in the Jesus movement. My parents were leaders. My parents were a little bit older than the hippies, but I grew up with long-haired hippie freaks living with us and playing guitars and tambourines and singing about Jesus in our house.

I honestly believed that to be really Godly you had to have long hair and play rock and roll for Jesus.

[mtpockets]

Just got back from church. Mostly younger and middle aged people.

The demographic migration away from church is real, but it depends on the church. The old-line denominational churches are fading -- but even that varies from church to church -- but there are a lot of churches and church networks that aren't quite "denominations" yet that are thriving.

For the church goers, It's good to hear that it's hanging on in some areas, from the folks that I talk to there has been a pretty good decline in the last decade. More people popping off than coming in.

I think the numbers will decline faster as the boomers start to croak.

I also think that the decline won't be as prevalent in the bible belt as it will be in other areas and the further away that you get from the bible belt the more the decline.

Holy Mackerel someone has been channelling their inner Tammy Faye Baker. 3 posts back to back.. Good stuff Tater..

What was Zappa right about, what does that mean?

I didn’t say he was right, I said that

.

Maybe Frank Zappa was correct, referring to the meme

[x-trainer ben]

Well as a newbie that has been going for about 4/5 months mostly alone, i see
10% under 20,
20% 20-40, and
70% 40 -100.

I stay quiet, but i think the church abuse scandals and the idea that the "Lord hear our prayer" part may not be working for many people.

[7Seconds]

I think we had a percentage of people who were going to church because it was what good people did. I think that's changing in our culture. Church isn't as much of a societal expectation anymore.

[Thebigzub]

I avoid religion....religiously...

[Gabbar99]

Here's a good quote:

"The dogma of Christianity gets worn away before the advances of science ... Gradually the myths crumble. All that is left to prove that nature there is no frontier between the organic and inorganic. When understanding of the universe has become widespread, when the majority of men know that the stars are not sources of light, but worlds, perhaps inhabited worlds like ours, then the Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity."

[Gabbar99]

I also think that the decline won't be as prevalent in the bible belt as it will be in other areas and the further away that you get from the bible belt the more the decline.

Could be. I'm in the Northeast. I think here people are in church because they want to be, not just because it's expected.

[OldFartTom]

Only just reading this thread. In church today the service was taken by the main pastor (often it's other people, guests, lay members, all sorts just depends).

The church is thriving, lots of baptisms (adult, full immersion), conversions, lots of families kids, people of all ages. However the pastor reminded us that this is not the case in all churches. He had some statistic (not sure from where but it sounds sadly plausible) that on any given Sunday in this section of the country that the proportion of young people/youth (by which I think he means under 18?) in church or church related activity like Sunday school is 0.07% . He's also said in the past that many churches in England the average number of <18s in the congregation is <1

It's hard to relate to to be honest coming from a church in revival (also my previous church was same but bigger). Sadly there are churches out there where people, usually elderly, go because that's what they do and always have done and do it because they feel a sense of obligation to go on Sunday, not because they actually *want* to go.

The reason the pastor reminds us about this isn't to depress his congregation or to wring his hands about how bad things are, but to give the congregation a kick up the azz that we're supposed to be out there doing stuff, helping the community, showing genuine love, planting churches. Every now and again a group break off and plant a new church.

Some of the other churches probably prompting this thread, elderly people who keep pompous and sterile hearts, going through empty legalistic ceremonies, they just need someone to (literally) shake their pastor by the lapels and ask them WTF they're doing? There are churches where everyone has one foot in the grave, they're waiting rooms, waiting to die.

There are plenty of churches NOT like that also!
My totally non theologically sound test for churches is how good is their bands drummer?

[LWW]

For the church goers, It's good to hear that it's hanging on in some areas, from the folks that I talk to there has been a pretty good decline in the last decade. More people popping off than coming in.

I think the numbers will decline faster as the boomers start to croak.

I also think that the decline won't be as prevalent in the bible belt as it will be in other areas and the further away that you get from the bible belt the more the decline.







Holy Mackerel someone has been channelling their inner Tammy Faye Baker. 3 posts back to back.. Good stuff Tater..




I didn’t say he was right, I said that

I can’t see your MEME on my old device, I said this in another post.

Try engaging in conversation instead of MEMEs.

If Trump is popular which he is in Merica, Christianity will continue to thrive as the Trumpers may not be church goers but they are for Christianity. Last I heard Trump is ahead of Brenden in polls.

[mtpockets]

Could be. I'm in the Northeast. I think here people are in church because they want to be, not just because it's expected.

I recall staying at a friend's parents place one time, they were in their late 80’s I guess. We were there on a Sunday when they got all prettied up in their best Sunday attire and headed out to church, the old lady was rushing the old fellow out the door early, when they returned they gabbed between themselves, not about the sermon. More about who was or wasn’t there, how they looked and a bunch of other gossip LMAO. For them it was just as much or more of a social event than the service itself. My friend told me that they would tag team in the parking lot before and after church, talking separately to as many as they could, hence all the chatter and gossip when they got home.

I am not sh!tting on them, good for them for getting out but I recall the same thing happening when I was a kid with a drug problem.. Being drug to church, and other religious events.

When I was a kid they had a mass on Saturday night for people who couldn't make it on Sunday, My Grandmother would go to that one and stay home on Sunday morning and cooked a huge meal, roast chicken and beef with all the trimmings that would be ready at noon about an hour after we got out of church.. That was the best part of my Sunday. She did this for over 50 years, I was told. Pretty good reward for trying to stay awake and eating that dry communion wafer.

Here's a good quote:

"The dogma of Christianity gets worn away before the advances of science ... Gradually the myths crumble. All that is left to prove that nature there is no frontier between the organic and inorganic. When understanding of the universe has become widespread, when the majority of men know that the stars are not sources of light, but worlds, perhaps inhabited worlds like ours, then the Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity."

That's a good one

Only just reading this thread. In church today the service was taken by the main pastor (often it's other people, guests, lay members, all sorts just depends).

The church is thriving, lots of baptisms (adult, full immersion), conversions, lots of families kids, people of all ages. However the pastor reminded us that this is not the case in all churches. He had some statistic (not sure from where but it sounds sadly plausible) that on any given Sunday in this section of the country that the proportion of young people/youth (by which I think he means under 18?) in church or church related activity like Sunday school is 0.07% . He's also said in the past that many churches in England the average number of <18s in the congregation is <1

It's hard to relate to to be honest coming from a church in revival (also my previous church was same but bigger). Sadly there are churches out there where people, usually elderly, go because that's what they do and always have done and do it because they feel a sense of obligation to go on Sunday, not because they actually *want* to go.

The reason the pastor reminds us about this isn't to depress his congregation or to wring his hands about how bad things are, but to give the congregation a kick up the azz that we're supposed to be out there doing stuff, helping the community, showing genuine love, planting churches. Every now and again a group break off and plant a new church.

Some of the other churches probably prompting this thread, elderly people who keep pompous and sterile hearts, going through empty legalistic ceremonies, they just need someone to (literally) shake their pastor by the lapels and ask them WTF they're doing? There are churches where everyone has one foot in the grave, they're waiting rooms, waiting to die.

There are plenty of churches NOT like that also!
My totally non theologically sound test for churches is how good is their bands drummer?

That was interesting Tom, was figuring you would weigh in and I wasn't disappointed. I enjoyed reading that.

I can’t see your MEME on my old device, I said this in another post.

Try engaging in conversation instead of MEMEs.

No, some people are better with pictures.

I will do you this one favor and post what I was referring to in regard to Zappa's post.

"One day, atheism will disappear as a concept. Instead, there will be normal people AND some weirdo believers" -Frank Zappa.

Pray for a new device, Christmas is coming!

If Trump is popular which he is in Merica, Christianity will continue to thrive as the Trumpers may not be church goers but they are for Christianity.

State and religion should be separate

I avoid religion....religiously...

Ha Ha Smart man Big Z

I think we had a percentage of people who were going to church because it was what good people did. I think that's changing in our culture. Church isn't as much of a societal expectation anymore.

I think it is changing as well

Well as a newbie that has been going for about 4/5 months mostly alone, i see
10% under 20,
20% 20-40, and
70% 40 -100.

I stay quiet, but i think the church abuse scandals and the idea that the "Lord hear our prayer" part may not be working for many people.

Hey Ben, those are closer to the numbers I am hearing about.

I tend to agree with your last paragraph.

[LWW]

No, some people are better with pictures.

I will do you this one favor and post what I was referring to in regard to Zappa's post.



Pray for a new device, Christmas is coming!






State and religion should be separate

My Trump comment had NOTHING to do with state and religion. It was just an observation.

Trump used Christianity to get the Republican Christian voters.

For the Zappa comment, I generally agree with a lot of what he says, however death isn’t the end so I’m not sure about atheists.

Zappa also thought smoking cigarettes was as good as food, so there’s that......

[LWW]

Pockets, Zappa was not correct though, because Islam is bigger than Christianity ever was, and growing.

[mtpockets]

If Trump is popular which he is in Merica, Christianity will continue to thrive as the Trumpers may not be church goers but they are for Christianity.

Why will it thrive?



Do you think more people will become Christian just because Trump is president?

Do you think that people are leaving their Christian beliefs because Trump isn't President?

I don't

Trump is not the Messiah that you think he is.

the Zappa comment, I generally agree with a lot of what he says, however death isn’t the end

That's your opinion, many will disagree and say that death is the end. I am one.

so I’m not sure about atheists.

What are you unsure of?

also thought smoking cigarettes was as good as food, so there’s that......

I don't really care what Zappa said, about cigarettes, waffles, chewing gum or anything really. I think his music sucks and so do a lot of the ideals that he voiced.

However, I do like his comment on the point below;

"One day, atheism will disappear as a concept. Instead, there will be normal people AND some weirdo believers"

I can see that unfolding and the stats that I posted initially seem to be testimony to this. Time will tell.


As science advances I believe it is opening peoples eyes, estimates tell us that there could be as many as two trillion galaxies in the observable Universe.

2 Trillion, in laymen terms, that's a sh!load.

The ages of these galaxies are measured in Billions of years not thousands as mentioned in the bible.

People are smarter now and getting smarter every day (thanks to science) and it's going to be almost impossible now and more so in the future to get a significant portion of the upcoming population to believe that snakes and donkeys could talk, someone grabbed dirt and made a man, made women out of a rib, a virgin had a baby and someone came back from the dead and all this happened a mere few thousand years ago.

Just stating what I believe to the obvious.

I believe that some of the things that I mentioned is most likely contributing to the decline of Christianity that we are seeing and eventually it will all but disappear similar to what Zappa mentioned in that quote I posted.

Pockets, Zappa was not correct though, because Islam is bigger than Christianity ever was, and growing.

Those are the weirdos


Read the quote again...

"One day, atheism will disappear as a concept. Instead, there will be normal people AND some weirdo believers" -Frank Zappa.

Now I am not going down a rabbit hole with you over a quote, you can either agree with my opinion, or disagree. It's no skin off my ass either way.

I am not debating semantics with you.

[IronCharles]

Is Science enlightening people?

[Gabbar99]

I recall staying at a friend's parents place one time, they were in their late 80’s I guess. We were there on a Sunday when they got all prettied up in their best Sunday attire and headed out to church,

That was a long time ago. These days the pastors wear jeans and tee shirts and "best Sunday attire" would be an untucked button shirt.

[Gabbar99]

.



That's a good one

You caught the reference?

[mtpockets]

LMAO

That was a long time ago. These days the pastors wear jeans and tee shirts and "best Sunday attire" would be an untucked button shirt.

Yeah, it's been a minute for me lol...

When I was picking up our friend, the folks I saw were dressed up though, well what I consider to be dressed up anyway.

I mostly wear shorts, jeans, t shirt or Doeskin depending on the time of year so anything beyond that is dressed up to me.

You caught the reference?

I did

I Read it before actually, not long ago


I Don't agree with anything he did, but that quote made me go hmmmm.

[x-trainer ben]

Just home from Church.
It was like i said, with even less younger people.
Easily 85% ages 20-80

[LWW]

Why will it thrive?



Do you think more people will become Christian just because Trump is president?

Do you think that people are leaving their Christian beliefs because Trump isn't President?

I don't

Trump is not the Messiah that you think he is.





That's your opinion, many will disagree and say that death is the end. I am one.

No, my point was, if TRUMP is popular, you know where most of country stands e.g. Christianity. An Islam person would vote for Brenden over Trump most likely, there are always exceptions. BUT Islam is stilling gaining.

I don't believe ANY one is a messiah, stop your stupidity.

Opinion? Fuk no, it's not my opinion, I've known people whom have died, or claimed they died, and CT Fletcher did flatline during open heart surgery. The stories they tell are all the same, there was no gates but they had a feeling of no fear and comfort, they all say they want to go back, that's how good it feels. That is not an opinion, that is what I've observed. You probably think its the drugs, but one guy told me he died before he even went to the hospital, he was home, his daughter found him and called an ambulance.


And what is this talk about people at church are thin? Aren't you a anti-fatness bike shorts cardio geek? You live in a tiny, tiny corner of the world, what makes you think just by your little village is the consensus of the majority?

Church will have the most turn-out during a bad economy, so it should be rocking now.

Gabber, the kids who played in the band at church are usually the kids that go to the church school, their parents don't want to send them to the crappy public schools, basically the kids go to the school, play in the band etc. and the parents may or may not actually show up on Sundays, except when their kids are the focus on that Sunday.

[7Seconds]

Here's a good quote:

"The dogma of Christianity gets worn away before the advances of science ... Gradually the myths crumble. All that is left to prove that nature there is no frontier between the organic and inorganic. When understanding of the universe has become widespread, when the majority of men know that the stars are not sources of light, but worlds, perhaps inhabited worlds like ours, then the Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity."

I think that you inevitably run into a problem when you hold Hitler up as passionately holding most any political or religious view other than "Let's go Hitler," that problem being that he was, well, kind of inconsistent.

[mtpockets]

No, my point was, if TRUMP is popular, you know where most of country stands e.g. Christianity. An Islam person would vote for Brenden over Trump most likely, there are always exceptions.

No

Islam is stilling gaining.

Islam will be the dominant religion at some point.

Islam followers are everywhere, they breed like rabbits and Christianity is declining in some areas. It’s just a matter of time imo.



Just look at the number of pro hamas rallies in every country, that should be an indicator of how embedded they are and you can bet your bottom dollar that isn’t all of them.

Way too many…

Gone are the days when we fight them solely in their sandbox. The fight will be within our home countries as well and that is going to be a dirty fight.

I don't believe ANY one is a messiah, stop your stupidity.

There is only one other person in here as deep in the MAGA cult as you, I may be wrong but I believe that Trump is your messiah

Opinion? Fuk no, it's not my opinion, I've known people whom have died, or claimed they died, and CT Fletcher did flatline during open heart surgery. The stories they tell are all the same, there was no gates but they had a feeling of no fear and comfort, they all say they want to go back, that's how good it feels. That is not an opinion, that is what I've observed. You probably think its the drugs, but one guy told me he died before he even went to the hospital, he was home, his daughter found him and called an ambulance..

I think we all heard these stories, and many people cling to them in hope that there is an afterlife. I am not one of those clingers. Here are my thoughts on the subject.

The brain is a powerful tool..

Fun Fact, the brain can live about 6 minutes after the heart stops.

Now here’s the fun part.

When people die chemicals and hormones are released. Serotonin, adrenaline and norepinephrine.

Take a look at Dimethyltryptamine in particular

DMT is produced during death, which is why I believe that so many people who have been revived describe such a fantastic experience.

What people who have been brought back experience is just a product of the brain. You know the fun stuff, the chemicals, hormones and most importantly DMT produced by the brain during death.

If they stayed dead longer, it would be nothingness and eventually



is as good as it gets.

And what is this talk about people at church are thin?.

Thin as in not many lol

Aren't you a anti-fatness bike shorts cardio geek?.

I do a lot of cardio, only some of it is cycling

You live in a tiny, tiny corner of the world,

I have been to Europe, Asia, South America, North America, obviously, 42 states, all provinces and the NWT and many cities within these areas and friends all over. My world is not as small as you think.

How about you?

what makes you think just by your little village is the consensus of the majority? .

I never said my area was a consensus, (not sure where you got that from or why you made it up) hence me asking questions, getting feedback and putting my two coppers in from my area. It’s called having a discussion.

We live in an era where information is at our fingertips, no ones world is as small as it was 40 years ago, regardless of how remote someone lives.

I am sure that more folks will chime in and hopefully have better stats than I provided as well as observations from their area as well. So far there have been some great contributions from others.

[OldFartTom]

...I do a lot of cardio, only some of it is cycling...

That could easily be an Arnold Schwarzenegger quote, or maybe he'd have said... (you have to read this slowly in his accent) "I do cardio, and a lot of it is cycling"
Arnie loves his vacuum posture exercises and his cycling!

[LWW]

No




Islam will be the dominant religion at some point.

Islam followers are everywhere, they breed like rabbits and Christianity is declining in some areas. It’s just a matter of time imo.

With your quote above I see no relation to your thread topic and Zappa’s quote really.

The world will still be full of weirdos just worshipping a different religion.

Christianity is definitely dropping overall but it’s still the thing to do for most average Mericans over 30 with kids and spouse. Of course you need the hip music for those turn outs, the old organ only brings out the half dead thin ones.

[mtpockets]

Just home from Church.
It was like i said, with even less younger people.
Easily 85% ages 20-80

Ben, thanks for the stats, you are really good at this. If you could, next time you go have a glance at how many of the congregation that you think are boomers.

That could easily be an Arnold Schwarzenegger quote, or maybe he'd have said... (you have to read this slowly in his accent) "I do cardio, and a lot of it is cycling"
Arnie loves his vacuum posture exercises and his cycling!

Ha Ha, yup Tom.

Arnold is big into cycling. I once read that he said that he wanted to cycle the world. Many bodybuilders ride, it’s a fun way to get the cardio in.

The top pic is in the 70’s and the bottom is when he is in his 70’s, close to 75 I believe. Cycling FTW





I am not sure where he rides, I have been to Muscle beach several times and there's a bike path there that is over 20 miles long. I bet he has logged a few miles on that path. I did it a few times, great ride.

No

Islam will be the dominant religion at some point.

With your quote above I see no relation to your thread topic and Zappa’s quote really.

It's all pretty simple really. I wrote that in response to your comment. One that YOU wrote.

BUT Islam is stilling gaining.

Try to keep up bro, especially with stuff that you write. At some point you will have to spread your wings and connect the dots yourself.

[x-trainer ben]

will do.