3rd week on this routine so far

[Animal2692]

On the 3rd week of running this routine with novice F5 progression. Everything has been going great so far, no reset in sight. Started at 10lbs and 20lbs lighter for upper and lower lifts respectively than the numbers in the routine below and been eating in a slight surplus. My question is about stalling. Davis says that you move onto the intermediate routine/progression scheme once you legitimately stall on 2 lifts while bulking. Well, what do you for the for the lift you stalled on until you stall on the second one? Do you just keep grinding out the same weight and reps for the first lift you stalled on or do you keep resetting it? If you keep resetting it, what happens if you eventually start to progress on it again before you stall on the 2nd lift? Do you continue with the novice progression since that lift started progressing again or what?

Workout A
Bench 3x5 165
Pendlay Rows 3x5 145
Pause Squats 3x5 195
Calf raises 2x20 160 (leg press-like calf machine)
Seated incline db curls 2x10 25s
Decline crunches 2x20

Workout B
Overhead press 3x5 125
Close grip bench 3x8 145
Weighted Pull ups 3x8 10
Front Squat 3x5 155
Rdl 3x8 265
Face pulls 2x20 57.5

Here's a set of pause squats with 195 for 5 from the side
https://streamable.com/gwn7js

[safcpaul]

Yes you keep grinding and trying to increase it. If you stall on that lift but others are progressing then you are still making progress aren't you? And then if you're progressing with the other lifts you will probably find you will be able to progress again on that lift you were stuck on. Your biggest problem is your overthinking. You need to sort that out

[Filmbuff81]

Regardless of your lifting advancement you eventually need to reset and build back up.

The only difference is the time scale upon which you do it.

You’re only 3 weeks in so as mentioned stop overthinking it.

[Animal2692]

Regardless of your lifting advancement you eventually need to reset and build back up.

The only difference is the time scale upon which you do it.

You’re only 3 weeks in so as mentioned stop overthinking it.

I get the reset part and building back up. What I was asking about was the part where he says you run the routine until you stall on 2 major lifts. In this case I'm not running the exact routine, just the novice progression scheme. I reset on ohp for example, can't break plateau and stall on it. Then 5 weeks later the same happens for my bench but by then ohp starts progressing again so it no longer counts as stalling on 2 lifts at once which means I can keep running the novice progression scheme. I think what he means is if I stall on ohp, and in 5 weeks I stall on bench with ohp still stalling, that's when you're done with the novice progression. I'm just thinking ahead, trying to do it right lol, or milk it for as long as I can. Once I stall on 2 lifts, then I'll just keep the same routine but move onto the intermediate progression which is bi-weekly

"How long can I run this program? You run this program until you legitimately stall * on at least 2 of your major lifts while bulking (Bench, Rows, Squat, DL).
*Legitimate stall- After deloading (taking 4-7 days completely off), dropping 15% (reset) and working back up you cannot break your plateau."

[Filmbuff81]

I guess my point is wait until you stall to worry about it.

I don’t ever bother thinking of when I’m gonna stall.

Basically cross the bridge when you get there type of deal vs worrying now which could subconsciously psych you out.

[Animal2692]

I guess my point is wait until you stall to worry about it.

I don’t ever bother thinking of when I’m gonna stall.

Basically cross the bridge when you get there type of deal vs worrying now which could subconsciously psych you out.

I see what you're saying, I just wanted to be prepared for it ahead of time and know what to do. It's going to happen eventually, I don't know when but it will. I really dig this arbitrary approach though. It's keeping the workouts challenging enough but preventing me from killing myself non-stop as well since I'm sandbagging by doing sets across with the same weight. The last set ends up being hardest but even that isn't to failure. Then once I fail a lift twice it's boom reset so I don't have to build up anymore fatigue either. Slow and steady wins the race

[air2fakie]

There’s no need to run your progression so strictly by F5 standards when you’re not actually running F5. I’m not saying you can’t or shouldn’t…. just saying.

[Animal2692]

There’s no need to run your progression so strictly by F5 standards when you’re not actually running F5. I’m not saying you can’t or shouldn’t…. just saying.

True. I just want to milk the novice progression for as long as possible until all possible options have been exhausted. I used to think I wanted to be intermediate as soon as possible but then I realized that was just an egoic desire just to be able to say, "I'm an intermediate now." But then I realized that was stupid because if I can make insane progress just with the weekly novice progression, then that would be really good since I'll be spending the majority of my lifting career as an intermediate anyways. I'm in no rush to be an intermediate or use the intermediate biweekly progression

[BeginnerGainz]

“Ain’t nothin to it but to do it!”

-Ronnie Coleman

/thread

[MyEgoProblem]

“Ain’t nothin to it but to do it!”

-Ronnie Coleman

/thread

Yeah.... Buddaaayy...

[Animal2692]

Alright guys, just started the 4th week here after my 2 rest days, failed all but one lift on workout B so far. F5 says to reset if you fail a lift twice but I know damn well I will fail these lifts again so I'm just gonna reset now instead of attempting them again and building more fatigue. I guess this is where air2fakie's advice on not having to follow the F5 progression super strict comes into use.

Example: on ohp I got 5, 3, then 2 with 130. Ain't no way in hell I'll be able to get 5, 5, and 5 next workout.

I've gained 1.5lbs these past 3 weeks since I'm aiming for 2lbs a month and I've been feeling relatively beat throughout each week even though I've been progressing so I'm definitely getting enough volume.

If I can't progress past what I was at on two of the main lifts that I just resetted, then I'm just gonna go to the bi-weekly progression with 1 rep added on the week in between and keep it that way for pretty much forever. I didn't start as a full blown novice so I guess I don't expect this weekly progression to last for very long without stalling

[MyEgoProblem]

Try them..

Have a bit of confidence in your self.
Who cares if you only get 4 reps.

5/3/2 is a Rest time issue. Take your full rest and make sure its quality down time

[Filmbuff81]

Try them..

Have a bit of confidence in your self.
Who cares if you only get 4 reps.

5/3/2 is a Rest time issue. Take your full rest and make sure its quality down time

I would agree there is a rest time issue happening to go 5/3/2.

How long are you taking between work sets?

[Animal2692]

I would agree there is a rest time issue happening to go 5/3/2.

How long are you taking between work sets?

Full rests, 4-5 mins. I get lost on my phone between sets so it guarantees enough rest time lol. Last week I did 3x5 with 125, each set felt rpe 8.5-9.5. I also failed pull ups, close grip bench, and front squat. Only thing that went well was the rdl at 275 from 265 last week. I probably have a few more weeks on that before I have to reset it as well.

[MyEgoProblem]

Phone time =/= quality down time.

Get a timer ready before you start.
Hit it the second you finish your set.
And put it down.

Sit/lay there and blow it out, relax and visualise your next set.

Cut the social media and negative self talk out about failing next time. (nocebo is real)
Stop your alarm and get up and compose your self.

Stay focused and Win.

[Filmbuff81]

^^^^

100% this.

I visualize every set. If I have a big session coming up I even think about the work sets the night before.

If you’ve ever played any sports, you’ll know that having certain queues and routines built will enable you to perform your best.

Visualizing successful sets and performing perfect reps too.

Utilizing this for anything in life is advantageous.

Rather than being on social media, I’d encourage you to analyze how the last set went.

Did any reps feel rushed, anything feel off in terms of ROM or MMC? Did the bar track how you wanted?

There’s many things you can do to help you succeed and perform even better on subsequent sets.

[Animal2692]

Phone time =/= quality down time.

Get a timer ready before you start.
Hit it the second you finish your set.
And put it down.

Sit/lay there and blow it out, relax and visualise your next set.

Cut the social media and negative self talk out about failing next time. (nocebo is real)
Stop your alarm and get up and compose your self.

Stay focused and Win.

Alright, I'll give them another go Thursday using an alarm like you said.

On pull ups I wasn't even able to meet the reps on the first set which was 8..got 5 instead. Supposed to be 3x8 with 15lbs chained

[Animal2692]

^^^^

100% this.

I visualize every set. If I have a big session coming up I even think about the work sets the night before.

If you’ve ever played any sports, you’ll know that having certain queues and routines built will enable you to perform your best.

Visualizing successful sets and performing perfect reps too.

Utilizing this for anything in life is advantageous.

Rather than being on social media, I’d encourage you to analyze how the last set went.

Did any reps feel rushed, anything feel off in terms of ROM or MMC? Did the bar track how you wanted?

There’s many things you can do to help you succeed and perform even better on subsequent sets.

I'll say I already saw it coming going off the last workout B. I barely achieved my reps last workout and still added the right amount of weight (5lbs upper, 10lbs lower) starting this week. I'll give these lifts another try with the alarm like ego suggested, if I don't make it again then I'll reset and if I can't break the plateaus after building back up again on at least 2 major lifts then I'll shift to the intermediate progression. I'm just being patient going through the system to milk whatever I can before saying "Ok that's it for weekly progression." It's only a matter of time until I see where I draw that line

[Filmbuff81]

Feel like you started to heavy if you’re failing too soon, but that’s fine.

Progression will eventually work itself out.

[Animal2692]

Feel like you started to heavy if you’re failing too soon, but that’s fine.

Progression will eventually work itself out.

Yeah I did start a few weeks' worth heavier but I kind of figured the same thing-that the progression will work itself out. Whether you reset earlier or later, what difference does it make as long as you add the right amount of weight and eat well? I didn't want to start too light that I'm sandbagging it completely the first few weeks

[Filmbuff81]

Yeah I did start a few weeks' worth heavier but I kind of figured the same thing-that the progression will work itself out. Whether you reset earlier or later, what difference does it make as long as you add the right amount of weight and eat well? I didn't want to start too light that I'm sandbagging it completely the first few weeks

Well it’s less about sandbagging and more about giving yourself a tailwind

[MyEgoProblem]

Well it’s less about sandbagging and more about giving yourself a tailwind

You can never achieve a real top speed without building momentum....

Takes me 2 weeks to spool up and hit my stride.
5 weeks to hit a peak state
And then I need to back off at 6.

First week being a pivot where I'm trying to hold on to my previous performance but decay fatigue and resensistise.
Second week being a lower stress version of my blocks micro up get the revs up, before I start to push my 'rated' protocols.

Nothing good ever came from blowing my load early..
I learnt that VERY fast in my teens and its a lesson that will stay with me for life..

[Filmbuff81]

You can never achieve a real top speed without building momentum....

Takes me 2 weeks to spool up and hit my stride.
5 weeks to hit a peak state
And then I need to back off at 6.

First week being a pivot where I'm trying to hold on to my previous performance but decay fatigue and resensistise.
Second week being a lower stress version of my blocks micro up get the revs up, before I start to push my 'rated' protocols.

Nothing good ever came from blowing my load early..
I learnt that VERY fast in my teens and its a lesson that will stay with me for life..

Pretty much how my 6 week blocks go as well.

[Corbets]

Nothing good ever came from blowing my load early..
I learnt that VERY fast in my teens and its a lesson that will stay with me for life..

Heh. Beavis. Heh heh.

As for this thread, OP, 4 weeks of linear progression is… nothing. You’ve not understood the difference between failing to hit your lifts and a genuine stall, I think. You might genuinely be unable to do a linear progression now, I don’t know, but what you describe in this thread is not stalling as per the F5 definition, which is what I seem to recall you were attempting to bastardize.

[paulinkansas]

Nothing good ever came from blowing my load early..
I learnt that VERY fast in my teens and its a lesson that will stay with me for life..

Right. You need to relax and enjoy the ride.

[Animal2692]

Alright guys, been a week and a half since I failed reps on a bunch of lifts. I gave them another go instead of resetting on Thursday of the week before last week and used a 5 min. alarm between sets, I still got the same reps as last time when I failed reps, so no go. After that I deloaded for an entire week from Sunday to Sunday a few days ago, didn't lift anything. Came back to the gym again Sunday. That was my first deload in 16 weeks of lifting. I did workout A where I left off last time and added weight to what I needed. The deload felt like it didn't do anything, don't feel weaker or stronger...just a little bit of new doms after Sunday's workout which I was no longer getting up to the 16th week.

Anyways, 2 of the handful of lifts I had to reset was squats and overhead press. Overhead press was at 130 and squat was at 205, building back up from 110 and 175 now. All the other ones will take me a few more weeks to get back up to where I left off after taking 15% off but these two lifts will be the first ones I will get back to where I left off so if I fail reps again, then it's legitimate stall by F5's standards. Moment of truth is going to be in 3 more weeks to see if I can get all reps with 130 and 205. If not, it's off to the intermediate version

[Filmbuff81]

I don’t know why you don’t just go to the intermediate one already.

You’re not milking any “newb” gains at this point.

[MyEgoProblem]

'Did nothing Sunday to sunday'
'Did the same weight I left off at'

Pretty sure the protocol is to pull the % off after a reset/deload.

But Nothing at all for a week? That is just detraining. Not Deloading.
It's hardly unexpected it didn't "work"

Just move on