Squat form check/ Am I built to squat?

[getwreckedm8]

Hey mates, first thread here, excited to start making some solid gains;

was wondering if you guys can critique my squats and determine if, maybe, I should just cut them out of my program completely?


I am doing Starting Strength and, as you know, Squats are a MAJOR part of that program; However, I am finding it incredibly difficult to squat and maintain a neutral spine. As I hit parallel, you guys will see that I have some obvious lumbar flexion (back rounding) and, I have fixed this before with mobility, but it still takes an incredible amount of effort for me to squat right with just the bar weight or a 30 lb dumbell.


Ive included my pics of my proportions as a youtube vid as it wouldnt let me link to imgur, and was having problems uploading attachments; proportions are in the last vid


and here are my youtube videos of squats; If you guys need more angles or anything, let me know.


The MAIN issue thats worrying me is that I might be one of those guys who just isn't built to squat. Dropping squats from my program is really going to suck, but if I have to I will. If im just being a little puss though and I can work on my squats, keep them in my program, and improve on them, then I will. I just want to know how to move forward because I have been stagnant in my program since discovering this lumbar fault and its f*** up my gains. THanks m8s

[Itinerus]

How so small and skinny man cannot squat?

I was thinking light and small man often flexible and good acrobat but maybe it's wrong?

[NewYorkGiants]

You have incredibly long legs, which is going to make it hard for you to squat heavy initially. But that doesn't mean you should just give up...you can certainly still build muscle and improve your strength over time. You are just going to have to focus hard on learning the proper technique, because right now it looks very awkward!

This is a thread that a lot of people with long legs find useful. Give it a read and see if that helps:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=160995431

[cornman99]

Is that a fact that there are people actually not built to squat?

[unstrong]

Your feet are more or less pointed straight forward. Point them outward about 15-30 degrees and focus on making your knees track over them. Forward-pointing feet using a wide stance is not a particularly good option for a long-femured lifter if you ever want to get to parallel.

Not being built to squat is exceedingly rare. You will have to work harder to be able to squat with good form, but it does not appear from what you posted that you could not squat with better technique.

[Lowpala]

I also have proportionately long legs and found it difficult when I first started squatting.

Lots of hip mobility stretches and exercises.

Wide stance with toes slightly pointed outward.

Sit back, not down. It looks in your video like you are trying to sit straight down in between your legs. You can try doing bench squats to get an idea of how it is supposed to feel.

Those are some things that helped me get on the right track. I have no issues squatting deep and heavy now. Hope that helps.

[k9pit]

First off ditch the running shoes. If you don't have oly shoes or flats like chucks, go barefoot.


Not as tall as you but (when I was skinnier) I had a similar build.
Very long legs for my height.

Not gonna lie to you....It's gonna be a lot of experimenting. Lol.

For me....
At first I tried squatting wide (trying not to let my knees go past my toes, etc). It hurt my knees.
I tried low bar sitting back. It was an exercise in futility and it hurt my knees.

Eventually I had to rebuild my squat from ground zero with high bar with relatively narrow stance (shoulder width). My feet are in their natural position and my knees go where they go (which is definitely past my toes). My main focus is driving through my heels.

Now a narrow stance may sound counterintuitive, but if you have longer legs and a shorter torso and most importantly good flexibility, shoulder width will allow you to (with high bar and front squats) squat that torso between you legs while being better able to push out on the way out of the hole. When you are in the hole, your legs will almost be like a " V " and sit hamstrings/butt on calves .
If you squat wide, you may start to buttwink very early and not get much power out of the hole. If you squat shoulder width, you may be able to get far more power from your glutes (fully stretched) to fire out of the hole.
At least all of the above is my experience. All of the above is predicated on good flexibility.

Improve your flexibility and your long legs won't be an issue. If you can get the high bar form down, front squats will be easy to acclimate to.

[getwreckedm8]

awesome, thanks for all the advice m8s; Ill start working on mobility and form then;


But, that leads me to ask, should I add in an additional exercise;exercises I CAN do heavy to substitute for the squat while I get my form down, since im doing SS? Without heavy squats SS isnt much of anything since every exercise day has them included;

[MikePlow]

awesome, thanks for all the advice m8s; Ill start working on mobility and form then;


But, that leads me to ask, should I add in an additional exercise;exercises I CAN do heavy to substitute for the squat while I get my form down, since im doing SS? Without heavy squats SS isnt much of anything since every exercise day has them included;

I wouldn't. You want to keep the muscles you're gonna use for squat to be 100% so they aren't in a fatigued state when trying to nail down your form. It could get in the way if they aren't recovered.

[getwreckedm8]

I wouldn't. You want to keep the muscles you're gonna use for squat to be 100% so they aren't in a fatigued state when trying to nail down your form. It could get in the way if they aren't recovered.

**sigh** there goes the fast gains;

alright, will do then; it'll pay off in the long run

[MikePlow]

**sigh** there goes the fast gains;

alright, will do then; it'll pay off in the long run

The faster you get your squat to 100% the faster your gains will come!

What I mean though is that you, at the very least, should consistently be doing your squats first so that your muscles aren't fatigued for your squat. It's also easier for me to suggest not doing anything other than squatting until you have your squat down because we do not know if doing, say, heavy leg press is going to fatigue your legs for your next day of squatting. People have a tendency to over-do things and then lose sight of what's really important.

But I'd also like to throw out there that if you aren't fatigued from squatting after you're done your sets and are considering doing leg press or hack squats.. why aren't you continuing to work on your squat? If you've got the time and energy to do any leg exercise, it should be focused on nailing that squat.

Also consider box squats - many powerlifting/weight lifting coaches start guys off doing box squats exclusively.

[getwreckedm8]

Yeah I was reading around about that and will incorporate it into my program but do you know the significance of it? I assume its something about teaching the mechanics of the squat?


the box squat that is

btw thanks for all your replies man

[mikegilbert1986]

point your toes out and drop lower, your incomfortable cause your toes are in. push you ass out to raally arch that back on the lower end

[MikePlow]

Yeah I was reading around about that and will incorporate it into my program but do you know the significance of it? I assume its something about teaching the mechanics of the squat?


the box squat that is

btw thanks for all your replies man

Yessir. Box squats are a good way to get your body used to breaking depth because it gives you a fixed depth that you can 100% control progress on. It also does a good job teaching the fundamentals with a lower chance of injury.



Also, this is my favorite how to squat video



if it helps

[mike8190]

I have long legs and I always sucked at squating until recently, but only after my back started bothering me real bad around maybe april (still can't go too deep but maybe slightly below parallel). I basically stopped lifting, and was only stretching for several months. I found hip mobility and glute activation warmups to help the most, as well as essentially learning how to stand, which helped in activating my glutes. I do all leg movements barefoot and try to "grip"/ twist the ground. I always had a butt wink so I took it very slow and never went to the point where it would start to wink. I pretty much have been focussing solely on lightweight/high rep front squats for many many many sets 2-3 times a week. Like I do literally as many as I possibly can. I usually warm up with something like goblet squats, split leg squats and 1 leg deadlifts, to get myself in position, stretch/loosen up, and gain balance. This is after my normal stretching routine. I find the front squats help me keep everything in line I guess. But I think repetition/persistence and practice is key. Not saying this is what might help you though. I had to stop all weightlifting and found my problem to be muscular imbalances/postural issues (which were causing pain). But I was always a ****ty squatter and have a burning desire to get better lol, and hopefully I can use some actual weight in the future hah.

[getwreckedm8]

alright mates, so I set up the box squat yesterday and was box squatting; I didnt get a chance to tape it but, let me say, my legs are the most sore theyve been in a long time, even moreso than when I was squatting heavier weights than I am now with poor form;

My form probably still isnt 100% correct and I forgot to grab my camera so I didnt get a chance to film it, but ill re-record when I go back in on friday;

just wanted to update mates; im glad that squatting light weights is actually working my lower body, thanks for the advice

[MrGreenTea]

I think, in your mind, you might be over-exaggerating some of the problems you face. Squats are supposed to be difficult when you load the weight onto the bar. That being said, you should first take off your shoes - squatting with running shoes is a big no no. Second, find the right foot placement according to your body. For me, I am most comfortable with my feet pointing out a slightly bigger angle.

Getting your form right actually takes a lot of time and practice!

[getwreckedm8]

I think, in your mind, you might be over-exaggerating some of the problems you face. Squats are supposed to be difficult when you load the weight onto the bar. That being said, you should first take off your shoes - squatting with running shoes is a big no no. Second, find the right foot placement according to your body. For me, I am most comfortable with my feet pointing out a slightly bigger angle.

Getting your form right actually takes a lot of time and practice!

well my main issue was just that it was so difficult for me to squat to parallel with a straight back and only about 25 lbs on each side that I thought "wow this is ****ing ridiculous, I thought the squats were supposed to be a heavy compound lift that triggered growth hormone and test responses from your body"

pretty much, I thought squatting light weight was pointless, but after putting in some solid work yesterday, especially on the box, i found my self tired, and sore in the right places (ass, hammies, etc) this morning, so I now know its not pointless;


The only thing is, I look so ****ing awkward when I squat with "proper form"

Ill upload more vids tomorrow and show you guys maybe I still have the wrong idea or something but, given my long femurs, its almost as if im doing good-mornings when I squat;

However, everything feels right now, whereas before it was awkward as hell

[MikePlow]

alright mates, so I set up the box squat yesterday and was box squatting; I didnt get a chance to tape it but, let me say, my legs are the most sore theyve been in a long time, even moreso than when I was squatting heavier weights than I am now with poor form;

My form probably still isnt 100% correct and I forgot to grab my camera so I didnt get a chance to film it, but ill re-record when I go back in on friday;

just wanted to update mates; im glad that squatting light weights is actually working my lower body, thanks for the advice

Good stuff my man! Look forward to the videos!

And don't worry about how you look. No matter how bad you think you look, there's always misinformed crossfitters out there doing it way worse



(not a jab at those who do Crossfit well)

[getwreckedm8]

Alright everyone, @mikeplow especially since youve been so helpful recently, I apologize for the delay in new videos; I misplaced my camera and as such had to get a new one, but I will be going into the gym today and will upload new vids for you guys sometime tonight/tomrrow;

[MikePlow]

Alright everyone, @mikeplow especially since youve been so helpful recently, I apologize for the delay in new videos; I misplaced my camera and as such had to get a new one, but I will be going into the gym today and will upload new vids for you guys sometime tonight/tomrrow;

Will be checking in!

[getwreckedm8]

Here you go m8s;

Some points I want to make real quick

1) I know in the first 2 or so videos I had my feet straight, but this actually seems to help me more then pointing them out; it allows me to twist my feet into the ground, as if im standing on plates and trying to spin them in opposite directions from each other, or, "spread the floor" with my feet if you will, which helps me get everything tight;


2) If you guys need any different angles, specific speeds, or w/e to help you in your analysis, let me know and Ill get it for you;


thanks again everyone

[kayot1k]

you look very awkward squatting my man, also look out for that buttwink. As you approach parallel which you never do, you butt curls out like a shrimp.

why don't you squat with some weight buddy, thats when your true form will reveal.

Here you go m8s;

Some points I want to make real quick

1) I know in the first 2 or so videos I had my feet straight, but this actually seems to help me more then pointing them out; it allows me to twist my feet into the ground, as if im standing on plates and trying to spin them in opposite directions from each other, or, "spread the floor" with my feet if you will, which helps me get everything tight;


2) If you guys need any different angles, specific speeds, or w/e to help you in your analysis, let me know and Ill get it for you;


thanks again everyone

[getwreckedm8]

you look very awkward squatting my man, also look out for that buttwink. As you approach parallel which you never do, you butt curls out like a shrimp.

yeah I noticed that, figured some mobility and maybe some feedback on here would help fix the buttwink;

[dski79]

you DEFINATLY know how to squat! now its just gettin comfortable with the form! from videos 1 & 2 is all i watched but from them the only thing i see is that IF your feet were pointed out at say 30* angle you might get deeper! you break with your hips and have that right path at the begining! and SEEM like your pushing your knees out! but then i saw, but i could be wrong, is that your feet MIGHT be too far apart! fett too apart isnt an issue, however if your not flexible enough, i think a slightly wider than shoulder stance might help you out till you get more flexible! i still do shoulder stance but some guys like more of a wider stance!

Here you go m8s;

Some points I want to make real quick

1) I know in the first 2 or so videos I had my feet straight, but this actually seems to help me more then pointing them out; it allows me to twist my feet into the ground, as if im standing on plates and trying to spin them in opposite directions from each other, or, "spread the floor" with my feet if you will, which helps me get everything tight;


2) If you guys need any different angles, specific speeds, or w/e to help you in your analysis, let me know and Ill get it for you;


thanks again everyone

[getwreckedm8]

you DEFINATLY know how to squat! now its just gettin comfortable with the form! from videos 1 & 2 is all i watched but from them the only thing i see is that IF your feet were pointed out at say 30* angle you might get deeper! you break with your hips and have that right path at the begining! and SEEM like your pushing your knees out! but then i saw, but i could be wrong, is that your feet MIGHT be too far apart! fett too apart isnt an issue, however if your not flexible enough, i think a slightly wider than shoulder stance might help you out till you get more flexible! i still do shoulder stance but some guys like more of a wider stance!

thanks m8; I've been practicing the squat forever, even before I made this thread, and it seems like I always have issues, hence why I put the "am I built to squat" in the title;

I did think my form improved a bit from the first set of videos I posted to this set; and Mike Plow's recommendation of box squats (I recommend these to everyone trying to learn the squat form) definitely helped me figure out how I need to be "breaking at the hips," or, move downwards into the squat; The biggest clue box squatting gave me was that my shins need to be virtually vertical as I move down, and for me to achieve that, I need to "break at the hips" and "reach back" more;

The butt-wink is a major issue here but that maybe a mobility/flexibility issue as you said;


and okay, ill try the feet out again next time and see how I can work with it;

[getwreckedm8]

Any advice before I go back in tomorrow and get more vids??


you guys want different angles? Want me to try something new other than the feet slightly out? Want me to box squat? Want me to take the biggest guy's in the gym rack in between his set?


I also switched gyms now from a pretty decent one with nice equipment that I was paying monthly for, to the one at my uni which is garbage (but it has a rack, barbell, and weights, thats all that matters) but free, so they are limited on some stuff like a box (lol) but I can use a bench or w.e


Also, ****ers let me train with my shoes off which is a plus, EVERYTHING feels much more natural with shoes off

[MikePlow]

First and foremost, speed up that descent! It's taking you about a 4 count to get to the bottom of your squat. I'm not sure if you're just using a very controlled descent to showcase your form, but you wanna drop down and explode up - not burn energy getting to the bottom of your squat. Keep it controlled, but you're wasting a lot of energy going down that slow.

Another thing I took note of is your breathing. You are inhaling all the way down and exhaling on the way up. Take a deep breath at the TOP of the rep before lowering, brace your core (as though you are about to be punched in the stomach. Something I was told that helped brace properly is to try and fill your lower back with air), descend down, explode up, and THEN exhale. Keeping your breath in is essential to keeping a tight core.

I'll touch on depth even though most people already have.


Red indicates where you are.
Blue indicates where parallel is.
Green indicates where the badasses take their depth to 8)

You want to be somewhere in between blue and green right now. I imagine that, as a beginning squatter, you have mobility issues like everyone else did at the start. This will lead to "butt winking" when you dip below parallel. Make sure you are always focused on keeping that lower back straight and your ass out when you approach that parallel mark. You're going to have to work on your mobility to get lower, so here's a good video that is universally acknowledged as a great routine:




Now, another thing I've noticed is your bar position and bar path itself. You lean forward when you squat - this is fine if you're squatting low-bar. You, however, are not.



The red line indicates that the bar is centered over your toes - this is bad.
The blue line indicates where the bar should be centered, which is over the balls of your feet, with that amount of forward lean. (this line should be slightly more to the left, but you get the idea)

Do you know what low bar is and have you considered it? It compliments wider-stanced squatters better which you appear to be. Though I would still recommend narrowing your stance a bit.

For your videos tomorrow, put some weight on the bar. It's harder to keep your balance sometimes with just the bar as there's not enough weight to brace you to the ground. Other than the above, you've got the basics down.

[getwreckedm8]

another phenomenal f(*(##($* post, thanks Mike;

yeah I know the diff between high bar and low bar, but didnt recognize their importance in reference to how im leaning forward as im going down; Ill try out low bar tomorrow with all your other recommendations; thanks man

Also, you're right, I was going down that slowly to showcase the form, but also to keep my body inline/tight/structured as I descended; I have gone down faster as you mentioned before and its definitely much easier, but I always had the sense that that was "wrong" for some reason, as maybe I wasn't controlling the weights when I did that, and, not noticing it; Ill try out fast tomorrow too and I guess you guys can tell me if im controlling the bar well or not;


I dont think ill ever be able to hit that green line in depth honestly, are you squatting ATG right now?

[MikePlow]

another phenomenal f(*(##($* post, thanks Mike;

yeah I know the diff between high bar and low bar, but didnt recognize their importance in reference to how im leaning forward as im going down; Ill try out low bar tomorrow with all your other recommendations; thanks man

Also, you're right, I was going down that slowly to showcase the form, but also to keep my body inline/tight/structured as I descended; I have gone down faster as you mentioned before and its definitely much easier, but I always had the sense that that was "wrong" for some reason, as maybe I wasn't controlling the weights when I did that, and, not noticing it; Ill try out fast tomorrow too and I guess you guys can tell me if im controlling the bar well or not;


I dont think ill ever be able to hit that green line in depth honestly, are you squatting ATG right now?

Don't worry about going slow on the descent. The best way to show form is to do squats realistically.

And I'm not anywhere near the green line either - this was my most recent depth on my recent 320x2x5 PR sets