Thank you nutrition thread for saving my life - critique what I have learned?

[Jcart159]

Good morning everyone!

I wanted to start off with a huge THANK YOU to everyone who participates in this forum. The wealth of knowledge and information I have been able to absorb from various individuals has truly changed my life. I was a chubby kid my whole life and was one of those that believed I must just have a slow metabolism/be naturally fat in comparison to those "lean" individuals that seemed to eat whatever that want and not get fat.

I participated in sports my entire life which kept me in pretty decent physical shape, but I was never able to control the way I looked due to a misunderstanding of basic nutritional concepts. Throughout my 4 years of high school I gained over 80 pounds through eating as much as I possibly could, and lifting heavy 5-6 days a week (I was a football and rugby player). I gained huge amounts of muscle and strength throughout those 4 years which has served as an awesome base to begin with now that I am getting back into weight lifting.

Although I was strong and decently healthy, I was still chubby and not satisfied with the way I looked. Like I mentioned before, I pretty much attributed this to genes/slow metabolism/naturally fat in comparison to others pretty much my entire life.

After 4 years of intense training throughout high school, I pretty much gave up most physical activity once I got to college and replaced it with a full-time job of partying and overall unhealthy decisions. I mean, I went to Arizona State University, if you don't have a good time while at college there you must have been living under a rock lol.

During my freshman year in college I gained more fat, and due to never working out (maybe twice the whole year) I found myself at 235 pounds and had less muscle than when I was younger. I was eating fast food for the majority of my meals and overall felt like CHIT. Something needed to change.

I started eating a Paleo/Caveman diet because I had heard of the health benefits and thought it was something that could aid me in fat loss. Due to the lifestyle change and eating more whole foods in comparison to fast food I dropped 50 or so pounds in my first year of dieting/training again. I started playing rugby for the school club team which helped me get back into the healthy lifestyle.

At this point in time I was pretty happy with my results. I mean I looked 100x better than I did before, and felt amazing. I was still a bit overweight, but in comparison to where I started I felt like Arnold himself

I stayed around 180-175 pounds for a few years and enjoyed all of the compliments from friends and family that had not seen me in a while which sort of fed my ego, and helped me maintain satisfaction with my level of achievement.

That did not last long.

A year ago I decided I wanted to achieve the body I had always dreamed of. This is when I started my journey to what I call the crux of fitness and nutrition.

I started lurking on these forums for hours a day (still do this lol) and other forums/websites where I could get any new information. This is when I realized that eating a specific diet of foods (paleo/caveman for me) was not the real reason I had initially lost a lot of weight. The weight loss was due to eating less calories throughout the day because I was becoming more easily satisfied due to a large portion of my intake coming from whole foods instead of fast food. It is easy to plateau this way, and I know a lot of others have experienced similar effects with a similar approach to dieting through reading on this forum.

I didn't have my "ah ha" moment until I realized that I actually had the ability within myself to control my weight and the way I looked through calorie consumption and macro distribution. P.S. anyone who still thinks like I used to THIS IS THE BEST FEELING I HAVE EVER FELT IN MY LIFE. The realization that any human being on this planet has the ability to become the person or have the body they have always wanted is an extremely powerful thing.

And much like anything else that gives one power, it needs to be treated with respect. I went a couple months of being border-line ED because of the new knowledge I had gained. Trying to restrict my calories at first lead to extreme binges over 10k calories on most weekend days. Let me tell you, this cycle of life is not fun nor healthy. This is what many describe as "spinning your wheels". Don't do it. Please feel free to ask me any questions about how I have overcome those bad habits (IF has helped ME a lot).

It wasn't until a few months ago that I actually started tracking my calories and macros. I went 5 weeks straight of not regulating what I was eating, but tracking everything so I could get a better understanding of how I naturally ate before trying to restrict myself with any sort of limits. After 5 weeks of tracking, I realized I was naturally eating around 2800 kcals a day and maintaining a weight around 165 pounds. This was really good news to me! I thought I was going to have to eat around 1800 day in order to be in a reasonable deficit to cut weight. I got this information from several calculators I found online, and for the most part, they are all bull chit because they cannot accurately assess ones individual activity levels and other unique factors accurately. Now I am not saying they don't work as good baselines, but finding out how YOUR body works is a much better alternative if you have the time.

Now that I gained enough knowledge about nutrition, and how to manipulate my diet to fit my physical/mental needs I am going to start my first cut. I would much appreciate any feedback on the information I am about to present below!

STATS
Age - 23 (about to be 24 in January)
Weight - 160 pounds
Height - 5'11

Maintenance - 2800 kcals

My current cut - 2200 kcals
50-100g of carbohydrates, depending how I feel that day
70-80g of fat
120-150g of protein

I am guesstimating that I have around 12-15% body fat right now, and am not really reaching for a body fat related goal, but do want to get more defined by getting down towards the single digit range. Currently I am using an IF style of eating, and have a very balanced/healthy diet comprised of whole foods. I don't really keep myself on strict Macro breakdowns, as you can see above I have given ranges for what I get each day, although I make sure not to go over on the calories. Does this style of eating work on a cut, or do I need to be eating the same exact Macro break-down each day?



TLDR;

THANK YOU EVERYONE FOR ALL OF YOUR HELP, THE INFORMATION PRESENTED IN THIS FORUM HAS CHANGED MY LIFE!!!

[cls91]

Surprised I actually read that whole thing...

but good job, and congrats on everything so far.

Everything looked great up until your proposed cut macros. Cutting at 2200 looks about right but as you mentioned earlier in your post the calculators are just estimated and its about trial and error.
Saying that, I personally would eat at a smaller deficit, closer to 10%. I also personally like to have .5g/lbs fat and 1g/lbs protein as my minimums, although the numbers you listed are fine.
The macro's you listed don't add up to 2,200 calories though...even at the upper range (100C, 80F, 150P) it only adds to 1700 calories.

And to answer your question, eating the exact same macro's each day is not necessary, just make sure your hitting your goal amounts over an averaged time

[Jcart159]

Surprised I actually read that whole thing...

but good job, and congrats on everything so far.

Everything looked great up until your proposed cut macros. Cutting at 2200 looks about right but as you mentioned earlier in your post the calculators are just estimated and its about trial and error.
Saying that, I personally would eat at a smaller deficit, closer to 10%. I also personally like to have .5g/lbs fat and 1g/lbs protein as my minimums, although the numbers you listed are fine.
The macro's you listed don't add up to 2,200 calories though...even at the upper range (100C, 80F, 150P) it only adds to 1700 calories.

And to answer your question, eating the exact same macro's each day is not necessary, just make sure your hitting your goal amounts over an averaged time

Thanks for the reply, and the fact that you read the entire thing is much appreciated lol.

I also agree that 2200 seems a bit low, guess I will try it for a week or two and see how things work out, and will adapt from there. You also stated that my Macros don't add up to 2200 kcals. That is because my Macros are lower limits, I often times get more protein than that (up to 220 grams if I am feeling meaty that day) and more fat depending upon what I ate that day.

Thanks for again for the reply. Glad to hear that hitting the exact amount of Macros each day is not of much importance. I tend to look at my daily kcals and macros as a weekly average and make adjustments from there.

[cls91]

Thanks for the reply, and the fact that you read the entire thing is much appreciated lol.

I also agree that 2200 seems a bit low, guess I will try it for a week or two and see how things work out, and will adapt from there. You also stated that my Macros don't add up to 2200 kcals. That is because my Macros are lower limits, I often times get more protein than that (up to 220 grams if I am feeling meaty that day) and more fat depending upon what I ate that day.

Thanks for again for the reply. Glad to hear that hitting the exact amount of Macros each day is not of much importance. I tend to look at my daily kcals and macros as a weekly average and make adjustments from there.

2200 calories doesn't seem low necessarily, I was just saying I would personally have closer to a 10% deficit than 20%.

With the macro's, that makes sense...I assume you know this already but I'll say it anyways, carbs don't have a 'minimum', unless its one you personally set for yourself.

And thats exactly what I do, take weekly averages and go from there.

[Jcart159]

2200 calories doesn't seem low necessarily, I was just saying I would personally have closer to a 10% deficit than 20%.

With the macro's, that makes sense...I assume you know this already but I'll say it anyways, carbs don't have a 'minimum', unless its one you personally set for yourself.

And thats exactly what I do, take weekly averages and go from there.

Any particular reason you suggest a 10% deficit as apposed to a 20% deficit? I know that a slower, long-term cut is better for my body, allows me to eat more food, and will probably result in a more sustained long-term weight loss, but besides that is there any other reason? Using IF, I am actually pretty satisfied with 2200 calories and don't feel hungry very often even though I just started IF about a week ago, so currently not really seeing a reason to add a few hundred more calories into my diet.

As far as carbs go, I sort of don't see them the same as the other 2 macronutrients. Protein and Fat are what I strive to hit my minimums for each day, and tend to not really care about carbs because I like low carb foods and naturally they come in at around 50-100 a day. Most of my carbs come from fruit actually, and I really just use them for energy before I workout (usually eat a banana or apple a couple hours before lifting) and that's it besides all the veggies I eat (am I the only one on these forums that is obsessed with vegetables???).

Thanks again for the info, would give you "reps" if I knew how lol. Still getting accustomed to posting and interacting with the forum as apposed to before I would strictly lurk and read haha.

[cls91]

Any particular reason you suggest a 10% deficit as apposed to a 20% deficit? I know that a slower, long-term cut is better for my body, allows me to eat more food, and will probably result in a more sustained long-term weight loss, but besides that is there any other reason? Using IF, I am actually pretty satisfied with 2200 calories and don't feel hungry very often even though I just started IF about a week ago, so currently not really seeing a reason to add a few hundred more calories into my diet.

As far as carbs go, I sort of don't see them the same as the other 2 macronutrients. Protein and Fat are what I strive to hit my minimums for each day, and tend to not really care about carbs because I like low carb foods and naturally they come in at around 50-100 a day. Most of my carbs come from fruit actually, and I really just use them for energy before I workout (usually eat a banana or apple a couple hours before lifting) and that's it besides all the veggies I eat (am I the only one on these forums that is obsessed with vegetables???).

Thanks again for the info, would give you "reps" if I knew how lol. Still getting accustomed to posting and interacting with the forum as apposed to before I would strictly lurk and read haha.

Smaller cut will let you eat more, could be better for your metabolism, but mainly it will minimize the muscle loss (similar to how a lean bulk will minimize the fat gain)

That's fine with the carbs, I usually get around 200g (a lot come from fruits/veggies)

You give reps with the button below the avi pic (I repped you earlier )...you can see who repped you in your CP

[WonderPug]

You should NOT be cutting.

[Jcart159]

You should NOT be cutting.

Thanks for the input WonderPug. I have had this same thought myself because I know I am already pretty lean, but my goal is not really to bulk up too much more, and I really want to get down into the single digit body fat percentages. My reasoning for wanting to get into the single digits is fueled by nothing more than a desire to reach a goal I set for myself many years ago, that I always thought was unachievable.

Now that I have the knowledge of how to cut safely, I am wanting to finally achieve that goal.

Why is it that you suggest I not cut? Thanks in advance!

[WonderPug]

If your goal is to look emaciated and sickly, then your current course of action is appropriate.

[cls91]

Thanks for the input WonderPug. I have had this same thought myself because I know I am already pretty lean, but my goal is not really to bulk up too much more, and I really want to get down into the single digit body fat percentages. My reasoning for wanting to get into the single digits is fueled by nothing more than a desire to reach a goal I set for myself many years ago, that I always thought was unachievable.

Now that I have the knowledge of how to cut safely, I am wanting to finally achieve that goal.

Why is it that you suggest I not cut? Thanks in advance!

Not to speak on behalf of Pug, but its because your underweight for someone your height. And aesthetically, you will look much better if you cut after you put more mass on you.

If the only reason you're cutting is because you set a goal to years ago, I would suggest bulking as well

[sdunn96]

So you are 24, 5'11" and 160 lbs......and want to cut?

Don't you feel small?

I would just eat maintenance, or do at most 10% deficit as recommended, and start pushing some iron.

[shesprints]

I agree with WonderPug (see? I do often agree with you!). WHY are you cutting? Unless you are a marathon runner trying to squeeze out those last few seconds, your weight is already at the low end for your height, and frankly, it seems like you've developed some obsessive and borderline worrisome behavior patterns in your quest for perfect leanness.

But I get where you are coming from. I just read a good article about this sort of thing, actually, which the author calls "Former Fat Boy Syndrome." Check it out:

http://www.jcdfitness.com/2009/10/th...-boy-syndrome/

I think he also has a podcast just talking about how it feels to be scared of bulking or even maintaining.

I mean, at the very least, why did you not his this point:

"After 5 weeks of tracking, I realized I was naturally eating around 2800 kcals a day and maintaining a weight around 165 pounds. "

and say hey, maybe I should stick with this? It seems like a healthier weight and it is maintainable, as you say.

[Jcart159]

Gonna try and reply to all 3 of you in the same response. Hope this works.

If your goal is to look emaciated and sickly, then your current course of action is appropriate.

Definitely don't want to look emaciated at all, and kind of figured this is how I would look if I lost another 10 or so pounds of fat and got down to 150 (that sounds really skinny lol). My reasoning for choosing a cut over a bulk in order to achieve my body composition goals is because I am pretty satisfied with my current level of muscle and simply want to get more of a shredded look. I guess that same look I am after could also be obtained by adding more muscle to my frame, but for some reason dieting sounds easier to me than putting more hours in at the gym.

Not to speak on behalf of Pug, but its because your underweight for someone your height. And aesthetically, you will look much better if you cut after you put more mass on you.

If the only reason you're cutting is because you set a goal to years ago, I would suggest bulking as well

My reason for cutting, as stated above is to reach a certain "look" which was the goal I set long ago. My goal is not to reach a specific body fat % by any means, but that is the vehicle which I have been using to measure my progress. Again, I really appreciate your input as it is opening my eyes to seemingly simple things I overlooked before.

So you are 24, 5'11" and 160 lbs......and want to cut?

Don't you feel small?

I would just eat maintenance, or do at most 10% deficit as recommended, and start pushing some iron.

I don't feel small at all actually. I spent many years of my life as the Big Guy in the room and have no problem being smaller than most now. I still have a good amount of muscle from when I used to lift heavily.


For reference, here is a recent picture from about a week ago. I don't think I look emaciated right now but that is my personal opinion lol. Any further advice would be much appreciated. Thanks all.

Gonna try and reply to all 3 of you in the same response. Hope this works.

If your goal is to look emaciated and sickly, then your current course of action is appropriate.

Definitely don't want to look emaciated at all, and kind of figured this is how I would look if I lost another 10 or so pounds of fat and got down to 150 (that sounds really skinny lol). My reasoning for choosing a cut over a bulk in order to achieve my body composition goals is because I am pretty satisfied with my current level of muscle and simply want to get more of a shredded look. I guess that same look I am after could also be obtained by adding more muscle to my frame, but for some reason dieting sounds easier to me than putting more hours in at the gym.

Not to speak on behalf of Pug, but its because your underweight for someone your height. And aesthetically, you will look much better if you cut after you put more mass on you.

If the only reason you're cutting is because you set a goal to years ago, I would suggest bulking as well

My reason for cutting, as stated above is to reach a certain "look" which was the goal I set long ago. My goal is not to reach a specific body fat % by any means, but that is the vehicle which I have been using to measure my progress. Again, I really appreciate your input as it is opening my eyes to seemingly simple things I overlooked before.

So you are 24, 5'11" and 160 lbs......and want to cut?

Don't you feel small?

I would just eat maintenance, or do at most 10% deficit as recommended, and start pushing some iron.

I don't feel small at all actually. I spent many years of my life as the Big Guy in the room and have no problem being smaller than most now. I still have a good amount of muscle from when I used to lift heavily.


For reference, here is a recent picture from about a week ago. I don't think I look emaciated right now but that is my personal opinion lol. Any further advice would be much appreciated. Thanks all.

NOOB QUESTION ALERT: how do I post pics?

[Jcart159]

I agree with WonderPug (see? I do often agree with you!). WHY are you cutting? Unless you are a marathon runner trying to squeeze out those last few seconds, your weight is already at the low end for your height, and frankly, it seems like you've developed some obsessive and borderline worrisome behavior patterns in your quest for perfect leanness.

But I get where you are coming from. I just read a good article about this sort of thing, actually, which the author calls "Former Fat Boy Syndrome." Check it out:

I think he also has a podcast just talking about how it feels to be scared of bulking or even maintaining.

I mean, at the very least, why did you not his this point:

"After 5 weeks of tracking, I realized I was naturally eating around 2800 kcals a day and maintaining a weight around 165 pounds. "

and say hey, maybe I should stick with this? It seems like a healthier weight and it is maintainable, as you say.

Thanks for the link shesprints. I'll definitely give it a read when I get home from work this afternoonm, definitely sounds like it pertains to my situation. I agree that I have displayed borderline obsessive behavior but believe I am headed in a better direction than I was going before, which was in the direction of a definite ED.

The reason I didn't say "hey, maybe I should stick with this" is because I am not satisfied with the way I look. Plain and simple. I want to be more cut. Don't mean to sound blunt, but that is the way my brain is currently thinking. Definitely helpful for me to take a third person perspective at my thought process, for that I thank you.

[WonderPug]

NOOB QUESTION ALERT: how do I post pics?

Until you have 50 posts, you can't directly post pictures, but you can do so indirectly by posting them to your bodyspace page.

[rand18m]

You should NOT be cutting.

THis^^.

It sounds like it's time to lose the scale! Stop weighing yourself and using it as your barometer. If you want to look muscular then losing body fat when you weigh 235 (at your height) is certainly reasonable. If you want to look muscular weighing 160 then losing more body fat will NOT get you where you want to go. You must understand that weight loss doesn't directly translate to body fat alone, you lose some muscle tissue regardless of how well you maintain strict macro control and resistance stimulus. At this point body fat percentage calculations along with the mirror and your clothes will likely give you a much better idea of your progress.

I suggest you take this opportunity to bulk, then you could return to a fat loss strategy followed by another bulk etc etc.

Attempting to continually lose body fat from this position will not lead you to the outcome you desire based on your said goals, unless emaciation is your goal. GL

[ELLSKIES]

You should NOT be cutting.

Exactly what I was about to say! 5, 11" 160: what are you gonna cut down to???? Unfortunately you don't have enough muscle mass to even think about cutting right now,especially at your age. I'd lean bulk if I were you!