thoughts on out-training a bad diet/client nutrition advice

[AnabolicOtaku]

Had a fallout today with one of my clients due to un-progress. A middle aged gentleman that works with me 5 days a week. Now my question is, is it possibe to out-train a bad diet. I have done a quick forum search and didnt come up with anything else I dont already know (cal in vs cal out) but with someone that wants to lose weight but also eat out every meal of the day am I trying to fight a losing battle? Also I have tried to talk to him about counting calories and macros but nothing seems to stick. Any and all help is very much appreciated!

[WillEsteem]

Nutrition is 80% of the game. Lose that, and well, yeah. You might see some gains of muscle etc but if hes eating ****, and to much ****, no way are you out training that bro! sort him the **** out!

[LeoneStarr]

I think some can do it...take me for example I didn't care about nutrition at all til early 2012...then again I was a high school and college sprinter..sprint every other day and did mostly active and dynamic stretching...I was and still am always doing something active...walk and take public transportation everywhere.

This won't work for many tho. Having a great baseline sure helped

[Environ]

A bit like pushing water up hill.

But, if his problem is that he wants to eat out every meal, then maybe you can focus on how he can make proper choices for his goals.

[InsanelyFit]

Why don't you train him to the point of exhaustion/passing out one time and tell him 'This is how you are going to need to train if you want to eat out every meal' and hopefully something will click in his brain that it is not worth it?

Downside is you might lose him as a client :/

[Simmo0508]

You shouldn't be talking to him about counting calories and macros in the first place. It goes over the heads of even the most committed of clients. That's rule #1 when it comes to not killing a client's motivation and progress. For most people, fitness can't be seen as a chore.

You should be giving out pointers as to how to change their lifestyle. What he should be eating when he does eat out. Grilled, not fried. Dressing on the side, not in the mix. Eat smaller portions. More fruit and vegetables etc. Stuff like that.

You shouldn't be trying to change them as people, just a few of their behavioural habits.

THEN, if he doesn't make those realistic changes, you think about firing him as a client.

[AnabolicOtaku]

When asking him to count macros didnt work I offered suggestions like Simmo0508 said, grilled not fried etc etc other factors that could happen is when you eat out you dont know how the food is prepared, how much oil or other additives are being used that could sneak calories in. I have successfully changed his bad snacking habit but he doesnt seem to be making progress, he is getting stronger but he has this illusion of getting a rid of his gut in a matter of months. Due to the fallout his wife skipped her session too, so I foresee them both quitting in the near future, every time I try to give both of them points about training/nutrition its literally in one ear out the other, both of them have this mentality of throw enough money at it till the problem is solved. I am just getting input about this situation and learning what I can from it. Thank you all again! :3

[offen]

Lyle McDonald tells a story about a client he had who lost 2lbs a week for a while just by switching from regular soda to diet soda. That is to say, pick winnable battles. Try to explain that he doesn't have to be miserable, but he can't do whatever the hell he wants and expect results. Maybe use the analogy of spending money/saving money, or something that will hit close to home ("It doesn't matter how much you make, unless you put limits on what you're willing to spend you run the risk of going broke" and so forth) but if he was my client and he wasn't willing to listen to me, I'd ask him straight up, "Hey. Why are you bothering coming 5 nights a week to train with me? Think hard about what your purpose in seeking me out is, and what your goals are, because there seems to be a mismatch here and we should try to sort it out. I'm not in the business of deceiving people about how the body works. If you want to see results, I know what we can do to get there, but if you're not willing to do it, then I'm curious what you're after." harsh but honest is often better than soft and ineffective imo

[pottersbar]

You shouldn't be talking to him about counting calories and macros in the first place. It goes over the heads of even the most committed of clients. That's rule #1 when it comes to not killing a client's motivation and progress. For most people, fitness can't be seen as a chore.

You should be giving out pointers as to how to change their lifestyle. What he should be eating when he does eat out. Grilled, not fried. Dressing on the side, not in the mix. Eat smaller portions. More fruit and vegetables etc. Stuff like that.

You shouldn't be trying to change them as people, just a few of their behavioural habits.

THEN, if he doesn't make those realistic changes, you think about firing him as a client.

I don't agree with that at all. A lot of clients find the nutrition side of it the most confusing, they want a trainer to push them and programme for them, but at times also to help them organise their diet. as you said, most people really struggle even with the basics, but it's not hard to take 10 minutes to teach those basics simply, to help remove the cloud of confusion in their mind when it comes to nutrition.
I spent a session with a protein shake in my hand the other day showing a client how to read nutrition info on the back of the packet as well as lists of the types of foods which contain the good proteins/carbs/fats etc. It helped her a lot and she left the gym excited she now didn't have to go through the stress of what can i/can't i eat every meal, which i find 70% of my clients said they had before they came to me.
Another yesterday, for instance, came to me as he'd had no growth in 2-3 months despite training 4x with a good WO plan and he wanted me to find out why. analysed the WO plan first, all fine, similar to how I'd prescribe it, then it came to diet, and we found he hasn't been upping protein, hasn't been eating excess calories etc. If I didn't sit him down and explain that to him then he'd have carried on getting no gains without realising his (vegetarian) diet was hurting him.

Obviously you can only adivce according to your qualifications though. A PT with no nutrition knowledge shouldn't be giving full nutrition plans, but I do believe as diet is 80% of results, that it's a big part of our job to make that side of things as easy and hassle free as possible for clients.


I don't think even the worst of trainers could train a client 5x weekly and not get results without the diet being terrible. If this OP was one of my clients I'd sit him down and tell him to list absolutely EVERYTHING that entered his mouth for the next 5 days, bring it back and then analyse it. should be quite easy for you to critique it and highlight the issues.
if he's still too difficult then as said above, drop him out.

[seancannan]

Non trainer advice here. If he refuses to give up the fast food lifestyle that many are accustomed to then try to modify his locations. I too was an everyday Taco Bell fast food junky after leaving the military. It takes a lot of will power to break the habit of fast and easy meals from these places. For me it was the money out that got my attention. For others It may be simply suggesting healthier locations.

If he is a 5x a week gym goer then he has his foundation in terms of strength. Try out the power of words.

Your gains are impressive! I haven't seen this in a long time. (Leave it at that and let his hunger for the sport to grow).

I could only imagine how we'll your body would respond with the proper nutrition!

Some BS like that may spark growth of his desire to actually break his habit. He sounds like he is under the same mentality as a lot of people...I pay you and go to the gym and I look better no matter what I do outside of it.

Just my two cents. Sounds pretty stubborn and a lot of work on your end to see what he responds too.

[DefyIsHuge]

You shouldn't be talking to him about counting calories and macros in the first place. It goes over the heads of even the most committed of clients. That's rule #1 when it comes to not killing a client's motivation and progress. For most people, fitness can't be seen as a chore.

You should be giving out pointers as to how to change their lifestyle. What he should be eating when he does eat out. Grilled, not fried. Dressing on the side, not in the mix. Eat smaller portions. More fruit and vegetables etc. Stuff like that.

You shouldn't be trying to change them as people, just a few of their behavioural habits.

THEN, if he doesn't make those realistic changes, you think about firing him as a client.

You are spot on with pretty much every answer. This couldn't be any more true.

[WoofieNugget]

No, you can't out train a bad diet. And if your client wants to eat out every meal then you're not going to win, especially if he's eating crappy food. I'd have a serious talk (although I would have a long time ago) that being healthy and fit means more than just lifting weights and doing cardio. I try to get my clients thinking about what they put in their bodies differently. If they refuse, and it is seriously hindering their progress I have no problem calling them out on it and if they try to blame me for any lack of progress I just tell them flat out it isn't my fault, it is theirs.

Sometimes even walking through a day and sitting down doing the math with them to show them how many calories they are taking in and how it isn't anywhere close to what they need to do to lose weight can be a big eye opener. Have you tried that?

[SerpentHearted]

client needs to get real.

he can keep training for strength gains, functionality, various other benefits of physical exercise... but if he wants a specific result in terms of body composition he needs to everything that's required to meet that end.

IMO there's no issue giving calorie & macro suggestions and tell him "i don't care what your meal choices are, but at the end of the day you need to be close to these numbers if you want that result". Let him decide how much he really wants it.

[Ronin4help]

It depends on what 'bad' means. It may be more important to redirect your goals with him until he wakes up and is willing to take your nutritional consultation seriously. He could be having personal issues that you are unaware of and so maybe a little more patience and understanding will serve both you and him. I doubt he's just some a-hole refusing to listen. There could be something else going on with him.