The Reality of The IFBB: Why Bodybuilding Will Continue to Regress (Cold Harsh Truth)

[NVious]

So I've been meaning to write this for a while, but I hadn't gotten the time nor felt the inspiration to really lay it out there. However I feel that the time has come to really put the truth out there.

Before we begin, it's best to say that if you're easily upset or have some "loyalty" to any organization, this is NOT the thread for you.

So let's begin, the IFBB is not an organization with the best interest of bodybuilding fans or even bodybuilders themselves. They've proven time and time again that they couldn't care less about people that actually have an interest in this already fringe "sport." How? Well let's take a look at everything the IFBB does wrong.

1.Judging
Over the years people have seemingly gotten used to terrible decisions, even at the biggest shows with the most spotlight. Some notable examples are Cutler being gifted in 07 and 11/Cedric at the AC and Dallas/Sami being beaten by the monstrosity KE/Branch winning two AC titles and the list goes on and on (think Baitollah Abbaspour/Charles Dixon). More often than not, you tend to expect some retarded decision to be made at pretty much every pro show.

2.What is actually judged?
NOBODY even really knows, I mean we have an idea: mandatory poses/muscularity/flow/proportions/aesthetics. These are all terms thrown around, but they're EXTREMELY ambiguous since no judge ever steps forward to discuss their decisions and there is no print of how much each of those is worth. You're left with people being placed differently from show to show, standards changing is a new winner is announced, i.e now they award improvements and disregard a bodybuilder who although better doesn't look as good as he has in the past or they award the most shredded guy who doesn't necessarily look the best or maybe they award the biggest guy who doesn't have the best proportions or maybe they award the guy with the best aesthetics. The issue is that the judges can hide behind these terms and just say "oh it's subjective," thus allowing them to make terrible decisions that would not be justifiable if we had some fine print into what is actually judged. There is ZERO consistency, thus leaving the people following bbing just as confused as someone who may not know anything about it as to why someone won.

Probably the biggest issue I have with the judging itself is that posing...you know the thing that so many prior bodybuilders prided themselves on....yeah POSING ISN'T JUDGED. Maybe the NBA should play with a football, maybe the NFL should take away tackling and use "touch tackling," maybe the NHL should use soccer nets instead, maybe the MLB should...actually baseball sucks so who cares? But you get the point, posing...something that used to be how shows were won or lost and the thing that really brought an "artistic" form to bodybuilding, yeah that's now gone.

3.Streaming
When I first started following bbing in 09 there were actually streams regularly of many pro shows and even going back further, there were obviously streams for gifs like this to be made:


Now have humans improved technology wise from 09 to 13? lol..... So why don't we have more streams? PURE LAZINESS. What kind of a moronic organization DOESN'T EVEN MAKE THEIR "SPORT" ACCESSIBLE TO THE FEW PEOPLE THAT CARE? I can find streams for the local junior sports team and have been able to for nearly a decade, yet in 2013 I can only find streams for two of the biggest events in PROFESSIONAL BODYBUILDING... That's a joke, there is ZERO EXCUSES for this. I don't care if in the past you had to wait months to get results, this isn't the past. They could even charge for a yearly online pass, but IFBB marketing itself and trying to maximize fans? Nahhh.

4.Lighting
Seriously? How hard is it to get this right? I mean in the 90s it seemed nearly every show had epic lighting or at least half decent lighting. Now you're lucky if you get 2-3 shows a year with decent lighting, let's take a look at some recent poverty efforts:









Yuckk....wtf happened to shows like this:


Can the IFBB not afford to hire a professional lighting crew AT LEAST for their pro shows?

5.The Rampant Hypocrisy
This ties into the judging, but it deserves it's own mention. The recent Cedric fiasco highlights this entire point, I mean what sort of organization DQs one of the biggest draws to it's shows because that person missed a meaningless meeting in a foreign country. Not only did that person have to arrange for his own transportation to get to the actual event, but they had to pay to be in the country.....STRONG professional organization. Of all the things to enforce in their nonsensical paradigm, they choose this? Didn't they put out a memo saying they were going to mark down guts some years ago? Aren't AAS/diuretics banned per their rules? Hmmmm.

/Part1

[NVious]

Outside of the IFBB, what are the biggest issues with the bodybuilders.

There is a clear regression in the quality of bodybuilders
This is the cold harsh truth, although there are a few good bodybuilders left, they're few and far between. The best way to illustrate this is to take a look at the Arnold Classic 10 years ago and the Arnold Classic now:





Some of the physiques being reward in the top 6 today








The beauty/aesthetic appeal has clearly been lost and for what? A bunch of huge guts that aren't even that impressive anywhere else. I understand that some people prefer bigger physiques, but the quality is NOT BETTER. It's not like these guys are all just huge mass monsters everywhere, it's usually a huge stomach with maybe one other good body part. There is really no excuse for the debacle at the Arnold and how many sub par physiques that were rewarded.

The physiques in general lack a foundation, the little details/separation are missing and the taper has been killed. So while they've got the GODLY STRIVE FOR shredded glutes, is the rest of their physique really there?

At the end of the day you can either reward guys like that, that the general public is going to think look absolutely awful and really they're very correct or you can start scaling back the physiques and reward someone who has much better aesthetic appeal and AT LEAST you can attract more people to follow bodybuilding that way, as opposed to turning off the few that do even more.

In general there has definitely been a regression and a clear over reliance on drugs among the modern crop of bodybuilders. The waists are out of control, some guys are clearly using SEOs and there really is no net gain as nobody in the modern day is even coming close to ****ing with 03 Coleman as far as pure mass goes. I don't even have to go as far back as the 90s to prove this point, even the guys 10 years ago were better, the genetic aspect of bodybuilding is being sucked out and being replaced with sheer drug abuse.

They're Non Marketable/Dull Stereotypical Meatheads
With the exception of a few guys that are actually interesting to watch/listen to like Antoine/Cedric/Evan/Kai/Heath, the majority of the IFBB couldn't really care less about interacting with fans/posting on forums or giving the few people that care updates. This is why people like Zyzz/Hodgetwins/Chris Jones are just as popular if not more popular than A LOT of the top IFBB pros, they post regular updates, interact with people and seem to have a fun/easy going attitude, even though clearly their physiques aren't on the level of some of the top guys, they're far more easy to relate to.

In mentioning the physiques above, that is the other aspect that has gotten away from bodybuilding is the ability to relate to the average person. Not only do these guys fail to articulate their thoughts/interact with fans/be accessible, but their physiques are just too out there for the general public, so not only do they lose possible market share to guys that "shouldn't be on their level," they also do themselves no favors by the way they go about "putting themselves out there."

I.e why is Joe Blow going to be inspired by IFBB pro XYZ when he turn on crossfit on ESPN or see Greg Plitt on a muscle and fitness cover and that is 1000X closer to what he'd want to look like or perform like. Bodybuilders are always going to be stereotyped, but unless they go out of their way to educate the public about the reality of what they do, it's going to stay that way and to a large extent, it's because the stereotype has a big truth. Even Arnold, the person who has done most for bodybuilding as a whole said in his book "Bodybuilders are lazy."

The Industry

We all know the industry itself is entirely founded on the lies of supplement companies, i.e by putting bodybuilder xyz on useless product zyx they imply that he somehow got that way with their product, meanwhile they leave out huge aspects of what it really took to get there. It's essentially an industry founded on smoke and mirrors, with little regard for the actual truth.

Not only that, but all the magazines have their petty little feuds with each other, preventing the interviewers from actually interviewing the bodybuilders. The great irony here is that just by interviewing the other person's signed "athlete" you could help promote not only the athlete, but your own company as well as the others, so the overall growth of bodybuilding would increase, but nahhhh gotta STICK IT TO EM!

If there is no unity within, how do you possibly expect to draw in a new crowd?

The Rise of Crossfit/Fitness/Physique

With all of the above said, even if you realize 1/10 of it to be true, why would you try and pursue an active involvement in this industry/organization?

Most people realize this and it's why things like crossfit/physique are continuing to grow, meanwhile bodybuilding (IFBB specifically) seems to be becoming more and more on the fringe.

Wrapping it up

Let's just finish off on this note: regardless of where you stand on these issues, I think we can all agree that there is a lot of room for improvement.

The bad:
Ultimately the IFBB DOES NOT care that much, they've found their niche market and make good money charging people to renew their IFBB cards or enter contests while spending minimal on promotion/lighting/proper judging or really attempting to fix things.

I shudder to think about the day that Arnold passes because just when I think things have hit rock bottom, they may even find a way to get even worse. Arnold IMO is really the one thing/person that exists that can still execute a drastic change on the IFBB as a whole, unfortunately with his schedule/appearances I just don't see that happening. Here is Arnold's take on the direction of bodybuilding:

[–]GovSchwarzeneggerThe Real Arnold[S] 883 points 1 month ago

First, I have nothing against monsters. It takes a lot of effort to get there. But we shouldn't go away from the basic principles of proportions, symmetry, muscularity, performance on the stage, and the idea of a small waist and big shoulders. The further we get from those principles, the further we get from the ideal.

The good:
NONE of what I said is that drastic that it can't be fixed, it wouldn't even be that difficult to fix. I honestly think if people got their **** together, in a matter of a year or two bodybuilding could be completely revamped and headed towards a positive direction, but and this is a big BUT it's going to take an active effort from all people associated with the IFBB/MD/Flex/Supp companies and I just don't know if they're really that interested.

So to sum it up, this kind of turned into a long winded whine fest, but the way I look at it is that we're at the crossroads or have been at the crossroads for quite some time. Unfortunately if no one decides to steer the ship, it'll go with the flow and the flow isn't always where you want to go.

[RoroCwalker]

I don't necessarily disagree with the Marketability point but I have a different view on it, although, everything else is perfectly explained.

Great post. r/c

[Musc1eBound]

It has a bigger fan base than it ever did before as well as bringing in the most money it ever has. I see your points though

[MegaLex88]

Beautiful post bro...

You hit every nail on the head. Best thread I have ever read. Amazing points made. That video imbed was also a perfect example of what Im sure fans and fellow body builders really want from shows and the athletes/artists.

[roidneedles]

I agree with u on everything.. I remember my dad telling me that bodybuilding used to be on ESPN!! And now they hardly stream two shows!? The IFBB has gone down hill, and people wonder why its not a main stream sport.. It never will be at this rate

[___]

the non marketable part...

i think its mostly because its hard to relate to much older people... you know.. most of the fan base is probably below 30 y/o..
its much easier to a 18 y/o to relate to someone who is 25 than to someone who is almost 40 (average pro bb age)

it makes me think if ifbb make something like a "< 30 mr Olympia", if it would attract some different fan base...

[AnthonyVFrancis]

I came into this thread thinking "bodybuilding is regressing? Get ****ing real!" With a complete bias I anticipated one of the most horrid threads of 2013.

Well, then I read it... and my friend, this is an amazing write-up. Every single point you made is spot on: 100% right. Heck, I'll be the first to admit, there were a few that completely escaped my mind and you provided some serious insight. Others? I've been smacking myself in the back of the head every time I become baffled and it was great to read someone else's opinion, who is on the same page.

This thread should be stickied. NVious, you are the man!

[TTimmerman]

Seriously wow at the quality op the OP. Great job and very good points!

[Tb0282]

I agree with everything you said 100%. Especially the posing, I miss seeing beautiful posing and the artistic side of bodybuilding. Great quote from Arnold as well

[DanOsman]

First time I see the entire video... Ok, from now on this is the greatest BB competition ever (IMO)!

[patbanya]

Oh Lord, Jesus it's a glitch in the Matrix! http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...8817673&page=1

[Loctus]

lmao how does Farah not just ****ing knock Kamali to the floor there

[MG5]

I completely agree with everything. That's why I decided to do physique even though tons and tons of people tell me I'm way more built for bodybuilding. But I'd never compete in bodybuilding within the NPC anyways cause I'm not willing to take the drugs they do, but I've strongly been considering doing natural shows, and people have usually said natural shows are a joke, but lately with how terrible these blobs of mass with distended stomachs look, the IFBB/NPC bodybuilding is starting to look more like a joke. But even physique can have some extremely ridiculous judging. And I was a part of that and it sucked.

[NVious]

Thanks for all the positive comments everyone, whenever I write out some long posts, in the back of my mind it's always like "oh God I hope this makes sense, otherwise I just wasted half an hour."

Luckily the IFBB is such horse**** I can sit here and whin---err constructively criticize them all day. I mean off the top of my head, I know I can do a bit more, perhaps I'll go even deeper.

I completely agree with everything. That's why I decided to do physique even though tons and tons of people tell me I'm way more built for bodybuilding. But I'd never compete in bodybuilding within the NPC anyways cause I'm not willing to take the drugs they do, but I've strongly been considering doing natural shows, and people have usually said natural shows are a joke, but lately with how terrible these blobs of mass with distended stomachs look, the IFBB/NPC bodybuilding is starting to look more like a joke. But even physique can have some extremely ridiculous judging. And I was a part of that and it sucked.

I've seen your pictures brah, you have an awesome look!

My suggestion would be to keep the workout log going, start a ********/youtube and start marketing yourself there. Create an official ask me or progress thread on the misc and keep it bumped up regularly (I think that works a lot better than some of the spam bots that make "new pic/vid/food clip version 12030123012032049" everyday).

With your physique, if you have even an ounce of personality, you can do very well. Hell Matt Ogus, although he is a nice guy doesn't exactly have me in stitches or wondering what sort of shenanigans he's going to get up to next, but he just continues to make solid videos with good info and a positive attitude.

Hell, from food/workout plans alone, you can create an AWESOME second income that keeps on giving as long as you're prompt and have decent advice.

[Groggery]

Alright, without rocking the boat too much, who is the thread aimed at and don't you think you're preaching to the choir?

[NVious]

Alright, without rocking the boat too much, who is the thread aimed at and don't you think you're preaching to the choir?

No one really, I enjoy writing and I like searching for the truth, if I can enable someone to see something they haven't or look at things in a different way, I've done my job.

It's the reader's discretion to do with the information as they please, all I can do is present an idea and listen to the feedback.

Where it benefits me is that the feedback will usually offer insight on things that I missed and thus advance my growth/search for truth as much as my post may have done with other people.

[Groggery]

Ok then, my two bits would be as follows:

From experience i've learned that sometimes when things get too big and snowball for too long it's simply not possible to enact any change without completely tearing it apart and then rebuilding it.

To me the IFBB is already long gone, i only stick around to see any new guys with potential or old ones getting shredded.

[Jeddore]

meh i think you make good points but sadly you used examples which would only further substantiate certain points when in reality they aren't accurate for the other side ex. the post about what are top 6 qualifying bodies by today's standards, and used an obviously unflattering pic of ben pak, and then bland pics of 4th and 5th place for the Arnold Classic (not even using the biggest bodybuilding comp, the olympia, as a reference point).. expecting this to back up your claim

[NVious]

Ok then, my two bits would be as follows:

From experience i've learned that sometimes when things get too big and snowball for too long it's simply not possible to enact any change without completely tearing it apart and then rebuilding it.

To me the IFBB is already long gone, i only stick around to see any new guys with potential or old ones getting shredded.

You're probably right, but you never know.

The pendulum of momentum swings in all directions, so maybe one day it can settle on a happy medium.

The 70s/80s were all about aesthetics, the 90s were about combination of aesthetics/mass, the 00s were all about mass and maybe now it will slowly start to sway back to the middle.

I'd love to discuss the illegal aspect of it, but since that's not allowed, I'll just say this. I don't think it's SOLELY the bbers fault the physiques have gotten worse, yes they do take a lot of the blame for the abuse, but it's not their fault the quality of BCAA powders has gotten progressively worse over the years and more and more you're being sold Gaspari protein instead of real ON quality stuff.

meh i think you make good points but sadly you used examples which would only further substantiate certain points when in reality they aren't accurate for the other side ex. the post about what are top 6 qualifying bodies by today's standards, and used an obviously unflattering pic of ben pak, and then bland pics of 4th and 5th place for the Arnold Classic (not even using the biggest bodybuilding comp, the olympia, as a reference point).. expecting this to back up your claim

You shouldn't be placing well with a gut like that, the parallel you could make is that Ruhl has a gut, but Ruhl is also MASSIVE EVERYWHERE, whereas Pakulski's arms/back suck.

Also as far as Olympia goes, Cutler being gifted second with a wonky bicep, deflated delt and asymmetrical quads, Branch being in the top 5 yet again with his malformed physique and Troy Alves being out of the top 10 despite being very aesthetic and being very lean everywhere (except his glutes) is more than enough evidence that the Olympia also has not progressed.

I mean I could go on and on and cite Hide being in the top 10 for more than a few years, despite not really being anything special as far as people having way better shape , Toney getting shafted, Beyeke guest posing appearance, Branch beating Dex in 09.

The Olympia hasn't progressed in the sense that you don't have 5+ guys if they hit it 100% with someone being slightly off who can win it, it's pretty much a Kai vs Heath show now.

[BOUNTYHUNTERMK2]

lmao how does Farah not just ****ing knock Kamali to the floor there

When you've taken bullets a tap on the arm from Kamali is nothing

[jackjonez]

Completely agree op, great post.

[MegaLex88]

Little bit Moaarr!

Lack of Judging Transparency

This is probably the biggest reason why people are so pissed with the IFBB, and its been a perennial problem. The most common way of phrasing it is “IFBB politics” or “corrupt judges”, which conjures the image of shady behind room dealings where important IFBB people and supplement officials discuss predetermined placings, regardless of how people look. Competitors either end up stealing the entire show and get first place or snagging a Top 6 spot that they clearly don’t deserve. There are close calls, and then there are these that even Helen Keller could describe as a perfect example of a complete ****up. To tabulate all such blatantly outlandish placings would resemble a tedious laundry list of bodybuilder names and contests, which I’m way too lazy to do. But we all know the most obvious in recent memory, and this only includes the past couple of years. Mark Alvisi in the 2010 Europa Super Show, Kevin English at the 2011 212 “showdown” (whatever the **** that is supposed to me, the IFBB lets strippers vie for an Olympia title, you can’t have another men’s bodybuilding division get an Olympia?) and 2012 NY Pro, Branch Warren at the 2012 AC and 12 Olympia, Jay Cutler at the 2011 Olympia and Sheru, and so on and so forth. Even in the past two years you could come up with a sizable list that would make any reasonable person think twice when they hear the IFBB described as a “Professional Bodybuilding Organization”. As if.

Granted there are in any sport things such as close calls and controversial decisions. No one says that these should not take place, and down to the wire events are the memorable ones that are the reason why we watch sports. But the problem which prevents a clear delineation between what is obvious corruption and a close call is that the judging transparency is nil-no one truly knows how the damn ****ing shows are judged!. We never get a verbal report of how why bodybuilder X won, what poses, etc etc. We never even know what a winning physique is supposed to be!! Is it most conditioned? Freakiest? Aesthetic? Etc etc. The big “criterion” in the 90s and 00s used to be “Best Back”-its what people fell on to defend some of Dorian’s more controversial titles and what was generally seen to be the criterion to place high at the Olympia. But that clearly can’t be the case, because Jay Cutler won in 2010 and placed 2nd in 2011, with arguably the worst back in the lineup, while Branch Warren managed to beat Dennis Wolf and Evan Centopani twice at the Arnold Classic, whose backs look like the ****ing Mona Lisa compared to Branch’s disheveled mud painting. Perhaps this was why Dennis Wolf was so confused during the post AC 2012 interview when he admitted he always thought the ‘best back wins shows’ and he has no idea what to improve on.



Best back wins. Its really apples and oranges between Phil and Kai-both both have great backs. And they are clearly miles ahead of the competition.



Best back…uh…still wins?



I mean…I guess…with the legs…



Well, hes got some nice veins in the middle, so uh…

In one-ONE calendar year 3 different criterions were used to justify placings. First to kick off the season was Lionel Beyeke’s first place finish at the Flex Pro. Aesthetic but way too out of condition relative to the lineup, Beyeke beat many other people who were in better shape and could easily have won, despite not having as nice muscle flow. Is this the beginning of the reign of aesthetics? No, because just two weeks later Branch Warren beat out Wolf and Centopani, both of whom might not have been as conditioned (or was it just grainyness?) as Branch, but were definitely more pleasing to the eye. The webcast announcers rambled on, mesmerized with Branch Warren’s heroic blue collar comeback (more on the hilarity of the webcasts later), about how freaky and grainy and well conditioned he was. So scratch that set of judging criteria off the list! Then at the Olympia, we hear endlessly about Phil’s aesthetics, conditioning, pleasing and superior muscle. Not saying Phil didn’t deserve the win, I think he did by making up for it in the finals, (while Branch clearly did not), but guys, try to be consistent here! So is it aesthetics and conditioning, just conditioning, mass, aesthetics and no conditioning…what? This doesn’t even go into the 212-in the 11 Olympia and 12 NY Pro we had ‘freak’ Kevin English beat out aesthetic Flex Lewis and Sami Al Hadad, but then Flex Lewis, but then without Kevin English Flex Lewis beats out David Henry, who arguably had a better physique but was not as aesthetic. Don’t get me wrong I’m glad Flex won, but once again the judging criterion completely turned around! There is a different between long term trends (such as from the 70s to the 2000s) and such whimsical vicissitudes that justify judging decisions even a schizophrenic could notice.

The score cards that we receive at the end of each show are not helpful at all, because we don’t see individual judging scorecards, and what poses bodybuilder X beat bodybuilder Y in, or why a particular bodybuilder was ahead of another. Or even if a bodybuilder wins the show because he won Pose X,Y, or Z. Nothing. Instead we are supposed to use our imagination as why something occurred. Take prejudging for example. Despite what people say where it only counts for half, based on the past two years this is really the part of the show where things get set in stone. Granted, placings can shift based on the later rounds, but it does not occur often. So, in prejudging, we get individual posing, then comparisons based on number, then comparisons based on how well you look, then maybe another round of comparisons. All of this crammed into one number on the scorecard. And its just an aggregate, we don’t even get individual judges numbers! Now, I’m not asking for a lab report with a detailed analysis of every bodybuilder in every pose relative to someone else, but, at least throw us a bone here! Explain SOMETHING to us. Explain prejudging a little bit more! Like, perhaps how Jay Cutler managed to sneak into 2nd and beat out Kai during the 2011 Olympia prejudging, or how Freeman didn’t get compared at all at the 2012 Sheru but then placed third? Like, perhaps those could receive a little analysis?

I mean, we do get IFBB head judge Sandy Williamson’s opinion on the show, which granted is better than nothing.

http://npcnewsonline.com/view-from-t...olympia/35015/

Although I’m a bit surprised at how she could analyze the physiques with how fast she was calling out the individual poses, but that actually probably explains the ambiguity of her answers. I swear to god Phil and Kai hit those poses so fast they might as well have just pivoted in a circle. We don’t really get the answers that the fans want. For the two spots that people are interested in, i.e., how Branch beat Wolf and Freeman and Phil v. Kai, we barely get anything. Instead she says that the placings were very close between 6th and 7th (yet somehow Branch soundly beats both of them?) and no real comparison of who won what between Phil and Kai. She says the judges had a hard time deciding, but how is this supposed to be a close Olympia when Phil wins with perfect scores? Given that the last couple of Olympias with perfect scores were 1999, 2000, 2003, 2004, and 2009, it seems dubious to say the least. None of those were close.

But while at least some of us have a vague idea of how men’s bodybuilding is judged, none of us have a ****ing clue about fitness, figure, and bikini. If the IFBB is going to force its fans to sit through the tedious Lord-of-the-Rings length webcasts (more later), some information on how the female contests are run would be nice. Like, why are all of the poses things that females would do in the beginning of a softcore porn shoot?



What are we supposed to be looking for here? I know what I’m looking at. Is it the right thing?



Is this a “sexiest” contest or something related to athletics and sports? I don’t care which one it is, but at least let the fans know, and don’t pretend that its something else. The female webcast announcers don’t even know how its judged.

[lee4]

can this be revamped as a petition? if so, signed.

[NVious]

can this be revamped as a petition? if so, signed.

IFBB doesn't give a ****, I remember last year when Kevin the monstrosity English won the NYP and there was some petition going around about not supporting the IFBB or something along the lines of that (think I signed it as stef slimeburger) and nothing came of it.

They just turn a blind eye cuz they can, all we can really do is not go to shows/don't actively support the IFBB, but support the pros that we like through purchasing of DVDs/shirts etc.

[fretslayer]

I fully agree with the regression of quality physiques. The guys regularly hitting the contest circuit (like the ones pictured) are just not impressive. The blocky waist, and or weak conditioning has gotten bad.

[MG5]

Thanks for all the positive comments everyone, whenever I write out some long posts, in the back of my mind it's always like "oh God I hope this makes sense, otherwise I just wasted half an hour."

Luckily the IFBB is such horse**** I can sit here and whin---err constructively criticize them all day. I mean off the top of my head, I know I can do a bit more, perhaps I'll go even deeper.






I've seen your pictures brah, you have an awesome look!

My suggestion would be to keep the workout log going, start a ********/youtube and start marketing yourself there. Create an official ask me or progress thread on the misc and keep it bumped up regularly (I think that works a lot better than some of the spam bots that make "new pic/vid/food clip version 12030123012032049" everyday).

With your physique, if you have even an ounce of personality, you can do very well. Hell Matt Ogus, although he is a nice guy doesn't exactly have me in stitches or wondering what sort of shenanigans he's going to get up to next, but he just continues to make solid videos with good info and a positive attitude.

Hell, from food/workout plans alone, you can create an AWESOME second income that keeps on giving as long as you're prompt and have decent advice.

Thanks a lot. I've considered it and I've had others tell me to create a ******** page but it just seems like every other kid who likes to lift even if they look like shiit creates a ******** page and now it basically means nothing to have one since theres kids that are a joke that have thousands of likes/followers because they spam places trying to get views on their page. But Idk I'll see.

[BartPimpson]

Very good points OP. The Olympia is still as good as ever but the bottom has really fallen out of nearly every other pro show.

The Arnold this year was just depressing. We all knew a lot of top bodybuilders were skipping it, but holy f*ck, the 2nd place winner placed ELEVENTH at the Olympia last September! The difference in quality between the two shows was just shocking.

Even as little as 3 years ago we got an amazing Arnold, with Phil, Kai, and Dexter, all of them looking amazing...basically the Olympia lineup except for Jay and Victor.

Now it's a completely different show.

[203mh]

Bravo OP... Bravo

That Arnold Classic 10 year difference is depressing

Just to add my own 2 cent... prime example of corruption from last year was the 2012 Flex Pro
The Poster from before the show


What were the placings?
1 Lionel Beyeke
2 Ben Pakulski
3 Fouad Abiad
4 Shawn Rhoden
5 Eduardo Correa

Many felt Correa (Including Sweet n low Shawn Ray) was hands down the best guy on the stage, Lionel Beyeke clearly was off the mark, and somehow he wins the show. How can you argue that? Because his shape and symmetry? Shiiiiit in that case Branch should never win a show which goes back to the whole "What is actually judged?" question.

[oneshotGG]

definitely agree on your views about webcasts/streaming and consistency of the lighting quality

i mean, even computer games are being streamed for free at 720p+ for hundreds of thousands of viewers free of charge lmao