5/3/1 difficulties

[Workhard20]

Sup fellow brahs? I've ran into a problem with 5/3/1. I started my cut ~mid January. For the past two months I have left my current maxes the same just to try and maintain as much muscle as possible. I always do the boring but big principle in addition to 10-12 sets of assistance work.

However, the past month I have managed to gain a lower back injury. The area of my injury is in the lower lumbar region to the right. Every time I look to the right while my torso is facing forward it hurts, when I bring my legs toward my thoracic cavity it hurts, when I sit in the same position too long it hurts, etc.

Could this be from the numerous amount of squats and deadlifts at a caloric deficit. On leg day it's 10 sets of squats with the 2 warmups, 3 working sets, and 50% of max for 5 sets. Same way for deadlifts.

[Jasonk282]

it's not from doing squats and deadlifts...it's from doing them with chitty form.

I ran 9 cycles of BBB

[Workhard20]

it's not from doing squats and deadlifts...it's from doing them with chitty form.

I ran 9 cycles of BBB

Lol at saying I have chitty form. What evidence do you have to state it's chitty form? None. By your maxes, you may need to run 15 cycles of BBB

[lee__d]

Maybe overuse, more likely some form breakdown in there. Whos knows for sure.

My lower back has been bothering me, not majorly like yours, and I think it's from tight gloots.

[bmontgomery87]

Lol at saying I have chitty form. What evidence do you have to state it's chitty form? None. By your maxes, you may need to run 15 cycles of BBB

because you're injured.

injury comes from bad programming and/or bad form.
your programming is solid. so his assumption was most likely correct.

feel free to post vids


in the mean time, I'd try figuring out what caused it and how to fix it.
And start doing more mobility work. As stated above it could just be a tightness issue.

[Workhard20]

because you're injured.

injury comes from bad programming and/or bad form.
your programming is solid. so his assumption was most likely correct.

feel free to post vids


in the mean time, I'd try figuring out what caused it and how to fix it.
And start doing more mobility work. As stated above it could just be a tightness issue.

I perform deadlifts tomorrow so I will video then. However, it will be at max 275 lbs because its such a sharp/disturbing pain. I've utilized deadlifts/squats in my program since I first started lifting in high school, so I doubt it's form. Just because you're injured does not necessarily mean bad form. Weights are good for the muscle but brutal on the joints/nerves.

Hopefully I can get X-rays within the week. I tried to toughen it out, but a month later and it still hurts requires X-rays I believe.

[bmontgomery87]

^^Lots of people have lifted for years and still have bad form. No one in this thread is claiming to be superior to you in that manner, we're just saying that a lot of injuries happen when form breaks down.

Hopefully it's not a major injury and you recover quickly man. I'd definitely see a doctor when you can.

[veggie530]

I perform deadlifts tomorrow so I will video then. However, it will be at max 275 lbs because its such a sharp/disturbing pain. I've utilized deadlifts/squats in my program since I first started lifting in high school, so I doubt it's form. Just because you're injured does not necessarily mean bad form. Weights are good for the muscle but brutal on the joints/nerves.

Hopefully I can get X-rays within the week. I tried to toughen it out, but a month later and it still hurts requires X-rays I believe.

http://stronglifts.com/weight-lifting-myths-debunked/

[bmontgomery87]

http://stronglifts.com/weight-lifting-myths-debunked/

meh.
Show me a strong 50 year old lifter who doesn't have knee, hip, shoulder trouble and I'll believe you.

[ktj4l]

If you're injured go see a doctor for sure. The BBB could be too much for cutting, but the injury could also be caused by poor form, bad mechanics and/or muscular imbalances.

To give you a quick example: You can deadlift with 'good form' and still suck at hip hinging and load ordering on setup. So your form might look great because you pull yourself into a good looking position at the bottom of the setup and maybe even have the strength to maintain it during the whole movement, but you're still putting too much stress on your lower back in the process. So when weight gets heavy or you fatigue during high volume work and form gets sloppy ever so slightly, your lower back will get hurt a lot of the time. And that's just one example.

If you feel the volume is too high, lower it. I wouldn't do BBB on a cut, because I know I'd just be brutalizing my body with volume when it isn't even being fed to grow. However, some people can handle BBB volume easily and make progress on it even during a cut. More power to them!

Obviously make sure your back is only sore from whatever it may be that caused it, before you get back to lifting heavy. In fact, this might be a good time to really diagnose any form problems or imbalances you might have. Most people have them (myself included), so there is no shame in looking at it objectively and fixing whatever problems (however slight they may be) you have.

[veggie530]

meh.
Show me a strong 50 year old lifter who doesn't have knee, hip, shoulder trouble and I'll believe you.

Maybe it was bad form. Lol

[Retardo-pex]

Lol at saying I have chitty form. What evidence do you have to state it's chitty form? None. By your maxes, you may need to run 15 cycles of BBB

The fact that you hurt your lower back and thought it was from the specific exercises or lack of calories would be my assumption as to how he concluded it could easily be something with your form. The fact that your snapped back seems to solidify this conclusion.

I rank 5/3/1 while cutting before, there is really no reasont o hold yourself back when you are only adding a small amount weight once a month anyways.

[scullin]

Op it's not from the programming. But you should probably do a deload immediately and get it checked out ASAP.

[JSNeves]

I think the key points that have been mentioned:

1. Get your injury figured out, sounds like it could just be a mobility issue (I get almost exactly what you discribe when my hamstrings/calves and hip flexors get tight) but better safe then sorry.

2. Lower the volume, whats the third B for in BBB? BIG! Its sounds like your running a template for muscle growth + your own additions while on a cut. This probably isnt related to the injury, but is likely effecting your progress.

3. No matter how good your form is it can always use some work and should be a primary focus at all times.

[scullin]

Also, it's a good idea to start using a foam roller if you're not already doing so. I got one recently and it definitely helps a lot.

[davisj3537]

I always find it interesting when people use the "I've been lifting for years so I have good form" excuse. The number one cause of injuries is bad form. Plain and simple. I still video my work sets on the big 3 and work on form bimonthly. Your form isn't absolutely PERFECT and it probably never will be. That goes for most lifters. You shouldn't get pissed off when Jason mentioned it could be your form and then insult his lifts. That was chitty.

I do think you got a lot of good ideas of what it could be caused by in this thread, but I certainly agree you should see your dr. Good luck with your recovery.

[mcmoon]

been running 5/3/1 for a while now and have been on a cut here lately...already down between 10-15 pounds and still hitting prs and have not had issues. I was running BBB template but my squat was lagging so I switched to the squatting 5 days a week template(I modified it a little) and am still having success. I still pull heavy singles on deadlift without any issues(around 405 x 6).


Chances are you are definately doing something wrong that is tweaking it. This also coming from a guy that has had 4 bulging discs at one time and currently had no kind of back pain.

[Jasonk282]

Lol at saying I have chitty form. What evidence do you have to state it's chitty form?

you're back is fuked up...that doesn't happen if you have good/'perfect' form

By your maxes, you may need to run 15 cycles of BBB

I don't compare myself to others because there is always some bigger and stronger out there... neither should you. Worry bout yourself bro.

[Jasonk282]

because you're injured.

injury comes from bad programming and/or bad form.
your programming is solid. so his assumption was most likely correct.

feel free to post vids


in the mean time, I'd try figuring out what caused it and how to fix it.
And start doing more mobility work. As stated above it could just be a tightness issue.

On spread damnit.

[jgreystoke]

Lol at saying I have chitty form. What evidence do you have to state it's chitty form? None. By your maxes, you may need to run 15 cycles of BBB

1. Harder to injure yourself if you know what you are doing and use good form.

2. You should know BBB is for bulking on a calorie surplus.

3. Since you've already done your lower rep strength work, the actual weight used for 5 x 10 is not so important, so long as you are pumping blood into the muscles. The load should be such that you don't cut into progress in the big stuff. 50% shouldn't be a problem at all when you get on a calorie surplus, if your form isn't crap.

4. I'm sure Jason will run 15 cycles of 5 3 1, and more, and will be the better for it. You wouldn't do 15 consecutive cycles of BBB, unless you were on the mother of all bulks.

5. Since you are smaller than Jason, you might need even more BBB work. But only on a surplus.

If you want to cut, you could reduce your downsets to 1 x 20 x 50%. Can go back to BBB when the cut is over.

Best of luck, whatever you decide to do.