All-Pro's vs this routine

[Rob9575]

Trying to decide on a routine. I'm looking for some strength & hypertrophy but don't want to put on alot of weight like when doing SS.

I was looking at All-Pro's and also this one by olinerules 87 on this site(see below). Which one is better suited for my goal? Also, would you use warmup sets in a routine such as the olinerules 87 routine?

Sorry I can't post the link but it looks like this:


Each workout will contain one exercise per major muscle group and 2 isolation exercises of your choice. One compound exercise should be chosen to work the lower body muscles, upper body pushing muscles, and upper body pulling exercises. There should also be one shoulder exercise.

"One Should Strive To Increase Weights Lifted Or Reps Performed Each Week To Continue Seeing Progression. "

Because the abdominals, calves, triceps and biceps will get worked in the big compound exercises you choose, they do not need to be directly stimulated each day. Each workout chose 2 of these smaller muscles and perform one exercise for each of the 2 you selected.

Choose one exercise for each of the groups below for each workout (the below exercises are suggestions only and you are not limited to just these movements):

Compound Upper Body Push

o Bench Press (Barbell or Dumbbell)
o Incline Bench Press (Barbell or Dumbbell)
o Decline Bench Press (Barbell or Dumbbell)
o Dips
o Pushups

Compound Upper Body Pulling

o Pullups
o Chin-ups
o Lat Pulldowns
o Bent Over Rows
o Cable Rows
o Other Row Variations

Compound Lower Body

o Squats
o Front Squats
o Hack Squats
o Deadlifts
o Straight Leg Deadlifts
o Romanian Deadlifts
o Lunges
o Step Ups

Shoulder Exercise

o Military Press
o Push Press
o Upright Rows
o Lateral Raises
o External Rotations
o Power Cleans
o Shrugs

One Isolation Exercise For 2 Muscles Of Your Choice

o Biceps
o Triceps
o Abs
o Calves

Sample Program

Day 1 - 4x8

Squats
Bench Press
Pullups
Military Press
Barbell Curls
Ab Roller



Day 3 - 5x5

Deadlifts
Bent Over Rows
Dumbbell Incline Bench Press
Lateral Raises
Dumbbell Tricep Extensions
Hammer Curls



Day 5 - 3x12

Lunges
Dips
Chin-ups
Push Press
Seated Calf Raises
Plate Twists

[DOOJ]

Trying to decide on a routine. I'm looking for some strength & hypertrophy but don't want to put on alot of weight like when doing SS.

I was looking at All-Pro's and also this one by olinerules 87 on this site(see below). Which one is better suited for my goal? Also, would you use warmup sets in a routine such as the olinerules 87 routine?

Sorry I can't post the link but it looks like this:


Each workout will contain one exercise per major muscle group and 2 isolation exercises of your choice. One compound exercise should be chosen to work the lower body muscles, upper body pushing muscles, and upper body pulling exercises. There should also be one shoulder exercise.

"One Should Strive To Increase Weights Lifted Or Reps Performed Each Week To Continue Seeing Progression. "

Because the abdominals, calves, triceps and biceps will get worked in the big compound exercises you choose, they do not need to be directly stimulated each day. Each workout chose 2 of these smaller muscles and perform one exercise for each of the 2 you selected.

Choose one exercise for each of the groups below for each workout (the below exercises are suggestions only and you are not limited to just these movements):

Compound Upper Body Push

o Bench Press (Barbell or Dumbbell)
o Incline Bench Press (Barbell or Dumbbell)
o Decline Bench Press (Barbell or Dumbbell)
o Dips
o Pushups

Compound Upper Body Pulling

o Pullups
o Chin-ups
o Lat Pulldowns
o Bent Over Rows
o Cable Rows
o Other Row Variations

Compound Lower Body

o Squats
o Front Squats
o Hack Squats
o Deadlifts
o Straight Leg Deadlifts
o Romanian Deadlifts
o Lunges
o Step Ups

Shoulder Exercise

o Military Press
o Push Press
o Upright Rows
o Lateral Raises
o External Rotations
o Power Cleans
o Shrugs

One Isolation Exercise For 2 Muscles Of Your Choice

o Biceps
o Triceps
o Abs
o Calves

Sample Program

Day 1 - 4x8

Squats
Bench Press
Pullups
Military Press
Barbell Curls
Ab Roller



Day 3 - 5x5

Deadlifts
Bent Over Rows
Dumbbell Incline Bench Press
Lateral Raises
Dumbbell Tricep Extensions
Hammer Curls



Day 5 - 3x12

Lunges
Dips
Chin-ups
Push Press
Seated Calf Raises
Plate Twists

I'm biased towards Allpro's its the routine I currently use plus it has a great thread if you have any questions. It appears the first 4 exercises in allpros's (the core of the program as they are compound exercises) are also options on the online 87 workout posted. I like Allpro's also becuase of the bulit in deload and it runs on a five week cycle. I think you could do well with either routine.

[Rob9575]

Only thing I'm not crazy about with All-Pro's is the SL Deads. I'm used to the traditional DL. My form isn't great on the stiff-legged. I know his reasoning to work the hams more.

I have to find a good video of the SLDL.

[FastCatChamp]

If you are a newer lifter......just pick a quality routine and stick with it. The weightroom routine is only one component. Dieting, rest, etc. is just as important.

I'd go with all-pro. Great guy, always on here....and his advice is always free! He must care!

[DOOJ]

Only thing I'm not crazy about with All-Pro's is the SL Deads. I'm used to the traditional DL. My form isn't great on the stiff-legged. I know his reasoning to work the hams more.

I have to find a good video of the SLDL.

There is a video and description of the SLDL on the supersite. Located under exercises. Hope this helps.

[Parajoe]

All Pro's because it is stupid simple. Look at all the crap you have listed up there to sort through and choose from. DOING the routine is less work than actually thinking about it. I'm not sure of your skill level or whatnot, but All Pro's routine will challenge you, and you will get the results you are looking for with dedication, hard work, and the proper diet.

[ILurkAtWork]

I'm looking for some strength & hypertrophy but don't want to put on alot of weight like when doing SS.

Dumb reason not to do SS. You gain wait by eating at a caloric excess, not by doing one routine over another. You can gain strength on a cut if you are a noob with either program--no problemo! Wanna know if you are a noob? Post your big 3 compounds. Don't know your big 3? Welll, then you would be a noob. If you are a noob, do SS or All-Pro's routine or any other beginner routine as long as you understand the progression. If you don't know the progression/programming of the routine then it is too advanced for you.

Benefits of All-Pro's: Better hypertrophy focus
Benefits of SS: Better strength focus

Both will make you bigger, and both will make you stronger. If you are young, I usually recommend SS first because it will make you strong very fast, and then you can do a more advanced routine w/ big weights and you will blow up really quickly. If you are impatient for results (muscle-wise), I'd recommend AllPro's routine.

Allpro's routine utilizes a periodization that I don't think is needed yet for complete noobs--I think it works better as a follow up to a few months of SS. AllPro's is great, and it works great for beginners, but my personal opinion is get strong really fast, then get jacked.

Sounds like you don't wanna get jacked anyway, so I dunno why you'd be worried about getting bigger on a strength program as opposed to a hypertrophy-focused program.

[Farley1324]

I do not like the look of that 'other' program.

Pick something proven and go with it.

[justroberson]

Exercise selection-wise, this program is "okay." But I would go with All-Pros, simply because it has planned progression, whereas this program does not.

[Rob9575]

Thanks for all of the feedback so far.

I didn't mean that I would gain more doing one routine vs another. I meant according to the SS book and from reading Rip's answers on the SS forum, he seems to recommend eating excess calories. In the book I think he mentions 4000-6000 and Gomad. That might be ok if I was a 17 year old kid looking to get big to play football or compete, but I'm not. I'm a 35 years old guy looking to stay in shape and get a decent physique in the process.

I started lifting last January and it has become part of my lifestyle. I messed around in the gym for awhile and started reading up on doing it correctly. I tried SS and while I was enjoying it, I feel that I may not be for me. I'm 5'9 about 180 and probably over 20% BF. I eat clean and around maintanence(3000 cals).

Dumb reason not to do SS. You gain wait by eating at a caloric excess, not by doing one routine over another. You can gain strength on a cut if you are a noob with either program--no problemo! Wanna know if you are a noob? Post your big 3 compounds. Don't know your big 3? Welll, then you would be a noob. If you are a noob, do SS or All-Pro's routine or any other beginner routine as long as you understand the progression. If you don't know the progression/programming of the routine then it is too advanced for you.

Benefits of All-Pro's: Better hypertrophy focus
Benefits of SS: Better strength focus

Both will make you bigger, and both will make you stronger. If you are young, I usually recommend SS first because it will make you strong very fast, and then you can do a more advanced routine w/ big weights and you will blow up really quickly. If you are impatient for results (muscle-wise), I'd recommend AllPro's routine.

Allpro's routine utilizes a periodization that I don't think is needed yet for complete noobs--I think it works better as a follow up to a few months of SS. AllPro's is great, and it works great for beginners, but my personal opinion is get strong really fast, then get jacked.

Sounds like you don't wanna get jacked anyway, so I dunno why you'd be worried about getting bigger on a strength program as opposed to a hypertrophy-focused program.

[Farley1324]

Thanks for all of the feedback so far.

I didn't mean that I would gain more doing one routine vs another. I meant according to the SS book and from reading Rip's answers on the SS forum, he seems to recommend eating excess calories. In the book I think he mentions 4000-6000 and Gomad. That might be ok if I was a 17 year old kid looking to get big to play football or compete, but I'm not. I'm a 35 years old guy looking to stay in shape and get a decent physique in the process.

Which is why you have to be intelligent enough to realize that what is written for an underweight wannabe athlete 17 year old and yourself.

It is generally recommended to eat plenty on SS, though.

http://startingstrength.com/articles...n_rippetoe.pdf

[Rob9575]

Which is why you have to be intelligent enough to realize that what is written for an underweight wannabe athlete 17 year old and yourself.

It is generally recommended to eat plenty on SS, though.

Thanks for posting the clarification article. That article helps alot and I was probably not eating correctly. Even though I'm at 178lbs, my bf is probably close to the 20% mark.

I was under the assumption that with SS, I still had to eat a ton. I was adding a glass of milk to each meal and almost forcing more food throughout the day, even when not hungry. I found myself heavier and looking fluffier after a month or so.

I guess in my case, eating closer to maintenance or right below would be ok. Another thing that I don't like much are the power cleans. I've read the chapter, watched the dvd,etc and my form is still not right. I feel that I am going to injure myself trying to do this. I've looked up the q&a section of the SS forum and anyone asking Rip can they replace pc's with bent or Pendlay rows would be ok and he always seems to respond by saying you can replace them, but them you are not doing the program.

[Farley1324]

3 sets of bodyweigt chinups plus some back extensions (5x10?) are a better sub for the power cleans.


You are still more likely to injure yourself deadlifting and doing power cleans though.

[Rob9575]

3 sets of bodyweigt chinups plus some back extensions (5x10?) are a better sub for the power cleans.


You are still more likely to injure yourself deadlifting and doing power cleans though.

I understand. I will keep at it and eventually pick it up.

So you wouldn't do rows at all? Just sub the back extensions & chins for now? I've been doing chins on press day and pullups on bench day. Is that ok. I'm just starting to be able to do them w/o assistance so I can only get 3x4 or so with each.

I know dips aren't usually associated with this program, but is it ok to do them or will it take away from gains? I was doing 3x5 bw.

I would definitely stick with SS if I can eat at a lower calorie intake and still progress. I just need to decrease some bodyfat/love handles. That's another thing. I know SS doesn't really promote ab work but I try to throw in some cable crunches, planks at the end of my workouts.

[Farley1324]

I understand. I will keep at it and eventually pick it up.

So you wouldn't do rows at all? Just sub the back extensions & chins for now? I've been doing chins on press day and pullups on bench day. Is that ok. I'm just starting to be able to do them w/o assistance so I can only get 3x4 or so with each.

I know dips aren't usually associated with this program, but is it ok to do them or will it take away from gains? I was doing 3x5 bw.

I would definitely stick with SS if I can eat at a lower calorie intake and still progress. I just need to decrease some bodyfat/love handles. That's another thing. I know SS doesn't really promote ab work but I try to throw in some cable crunches, planks at the end of my workouts.

Yes, I would do chins and back extensions.

Why pullups on bench day? That is deadlift day. 1x5 workset.


Dips are associated with the program, but as an optional assistance exercise intended to be added when doing so will aid progress on the main lifts. I would leave them out for now.

I would not run SS on a calorie deficit. At least a little bit above maintenance. The muscle you build, IMO, makes doing so worthwhile.

[tential]

I'm a noob and if you're a noob like me just starting Allpro's is stupid simple. 7 lifts 3 times a week you HAVE to eventually perfect them. That other program was so long with so many exercises I got tired even looking at it. Just because it's more complex and has more lifts doesn't make it better.

I honestly wish I had followed Allpro's program sooner and been on this site reading more because I honestly thought getting big was about the workout you did. Really it's more about diet and rest and the gym aspect literally takes about 3 hours of your week at most so go with Allpro's but realize that what you do out of the gym is equally if not even more important sometimes than what you are doing in the gym.

[hitchcockian]

Dumb reason not to do SS. You gain wait by eating at a caloric excess, not by doing one routine over another. You can gain strength on a cut if you are a noob with either program--no problemo! Wanna know if you are a noob? Post your big 3 compounds. Don't know your big 3? Welll, then you would be a noob. If you are a noob, do SS or All-Pro's routine or any other beginner routine as long as you understand the progression. If you don't know the progression/programming of the routine then it is too advanced for you.

Benefits of All-Pro's: Better hypertrophy focus
Benefits of SS: Better strength focus

Both will make you bigger, and both will make you stronger. If you are young, I usually recommend SS first because it will make you strong very fast, and then you can do a more advanced routine w/ big weights and you will blow up really quickly. If you are impatient for results (muscle-wise), I'd recommend AllPro's routine.

As a beginner but not the op yet someone still searching for the right beginner program, this was a good post. It's almost harder picking a routine with full confidence than to actually go to the gym and do it. I'm the classic overthinker. Rant over, sorry OP.

Allpro's routine utilizes a periodization that I don't think is needed yet for complete noobs--I think it works better as a follow up to a few months of SS. AllPro's is great, and it works great for beginners, but my personal opinion is get strong really fast, then get jacked.

Sounds like you don't wanna get jacked anyway, so I dunno why you'd be worried about getting bigger on a strength program as opposed to a hypertrophy-focused program.

Not the OP, but as a beginner and someone still searching for the right beginner program, this was a good post. It's almost harder picking a routine with full confidence than to actually go to the gym and do it. I'm the classic overthinker. Rant over, sorry OP.

[Rob9575]

Yes, I would do chins and back extensions.

Why pullups on bench day? That is deadlift day. 1x5 workset.


Dips are associated with the program, but as an optional assistance exercise intended to be added when doing so will aid progress on the main lifts. I would leave them out for now.

I would not run SS on a calorie deficit. At least a little bit above maintenance. The muscle you build, IMO, makes doing so worthwhile.

Farley,
i guess I doing the pullups on bench day isn't a good idea? I'm doing the PP version 2 routine and it is :

A: Squat/Press/DL
B: Squat/Bench/PC

So should I do :
A: Squat/Press/DL
B: Squat/Bench/Back Extension/Chins-Pullups(alternating)??

or is there another way to do this routine subbing the PC's for the back extensions and chins and pullups once a week?

[thedogdidit]

I'd go with all-pro. Great guy, always on here....and his advice is always free! He must care!

This ^ is why I'd say go with All Pro. He's kept his thread alive for years because he's always there, patiently answering questions. And the fact that the routine is solid ... well... that's just a bonus

[Farley1324]

Farley,
i guess I doing the pullups on bench day isn't a good idea? I'm doing the PP version 2 routine and it is :

A: Squat/Press/DL
B: Squat/Bench/PC

So should I do :
A: Squat/Press/DL
B: Squat/Bench/Back Extension/Chins-Pullups(alternating)??

or is there another way to do this routine subbing the PC's for the back extensions and chins and pullups once a week?

Just pick one of Ripps novice routines (I like the regular/original A/B SS) and use chins + back extensions where rows would be.