Flax AND Fish OIL?

[StillWorkin]

I was informed that taking Flaxseed oil (1g ea) with omega 3,6,9 is not that good due to conversion rate of ALA. Should I purchase this product below? Its $11. Would I also have to go out and get OM 6,9 to ADD to it?



"Brand A"- Omega-3 contains 1,250mg of fish oil per softgel, including both EPA and DHA

[dogonfire]

You don't need to get omega 6 or 9, most people overcomsume them anyways. How much EPA/DHA is listed per serving, how many servings, and how many caps is a serving?

[StillWorkin]

You don't need to get omega 6 or 9, most people overcomsume them anyways. How much EPA/DHA is listed per serving, how many servings, and how many caps is a serving?

contains 1,250mg of fish oil per softgel, including both EPA and DHA,

[dogonfire]

contains 1,250mg of fish oil per softgel, including both EPA and DHA,

Is that what it says? It seems that each cap is 1.25g worth of fish oil, but the EPA/DHA is unspecified. Got a link to it?

[Neopragmatist]

It is correct. ALA to EPA/DHA is very inefficient (~5% to 15%). And really no need for 6-9. Just stick to fish oil. Make sure you count the total EPA/DHA concentration, not the cap size. Most fish oil softgels have ~30-35% EPA/DHA concentration (to mimic the natural concentration). Here is recommended dosing:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...41&postcount=2

[StillWorkin]

This is all it says....




Omega-3 is an essential fat, as it cannot be synthesized in our bodies. It provides fundamental structural and functional components of our cells, and regulates many critical aspects of metabolism and immunity.

Omega-3 from aquatic plants and animals (EPA & DHA) is far more useful to the body compared to Omega-3 from plant-based sources (ALA). The body can only convert about 5% to 10% of ALA from the diet to a more beneficial EPA or DHA. Therefore, it is advantageous to acquire Omega-3 from a supplement in the form of 100% marine-based fish oil with EPA and DHA.

Benefits of Omega-3
Omega-3 contains 1,250mg of fish oil per softgel, including both EPA and DHA, which help improve cardiovascular health while managing cholesterol and triglycerides
Can improve key cardiovascular functions and reduce risk factors for heart disease
May reduce the risk and severity of depression
May enhance mood and brain speed in healthy people
Has been found to decrease joint tenderness, joint stiffness, pain index, and grip strength associated with Rheumatoid Arthritis
May slow the progression of Osteoarthritis
Has produced significant alleviation of symptoms associated with Crohn's disease and Inflammatory Bowel Disease
Anti-cancer impact of dietary omega-3s includes decreasing inflammation
Omega-3, primarily DHA, provides a significantly reduced risk of Alzheimer's disease and other forms of dementia
May help prevent some of the adverse effects of diabetes, such as oxidation and inflammation, and damage to nerves and blood-vessels

[dogonfire]

If it doesn't list EPA/DHA I wouldn't bother with it. You should be concerned primarily with that, not how much fish oil it has. This is what I use:



$15 for 350 caps, 2 caps yields 360mg EPA and 240mg DHA.

[in10city]

Is that what it says? It seems that each cap is 1.25g worth of fish oil, but the EPA/DHA is unspecified. Got a link to it?

It's the LifeTime Fitness branded one. It probably has ~ 400 mg EPA/DHA per 1250 of FO.

[adrenergic]

take flaxseed for the other fatty acids, i take flaxseed and seperate fish oil

[losangeles310]

so is bad to mix both with a meal fish oil and flax seed oil ?

[__AM__]

It has been reported that conversion of ALA to EPA and further to DHA in humans is limited, but varies with individuals. Women have higher ALA conversion efficiency than men, probably due to the lower rate of utilization of dietary ALA for beta-oxidation.

Stick to Omega-3 as you already get more than enough Omega-6/9 from diet :

n−3 and n−6 compete for the same metabolic enzymes, thus the n−6:n−3 ratio will significantly influence the ratio of the ensuing eicosanoids (hormones), and will alter the body's metabolic function. Healthy ratios of n−6:n−3 range from 1:1 to 4:1.
Typical Western diets provide ratios of between 10:1 and 30:1 - i.e., dramatically skewed toward n−6.

Here's AHA's (American Heart Association) suggestions on daily Omega-3 intake :

Patients without documented coronary heart disease (CHD) - Eat a variety of (preferably fatty) fish at least twice a week. Include oils and foods rich in alpha-linolenic acid (flaxseed, canola and soybean oils; flaxseed and walnuts).
Patients with documented CHD - Consume about 1 g of EPA+DHA per day, preferably from fatty fish.
Patients who need to lower triglycerides - 2 to 4 grams of EPA+DHA per day.

Make sure you get enteric-coated soft gels (Freezing regular ones work too) to prevent fish burps.

[StillWorkin]

It's the LifeTime Fitness branded one.....

How did you fig that one out? Seriously?

[dogonfire]

How did you fig that one out? Seriously?

I just googled "Omega-3 contains 1,250mg of fish oil per softgel, including both EPA and DHA" from your first post and Lifetime showed up. My guess is he doesn't have a genie and did it that way.

[StillWorkin]

Is that what it says? It seems that each cap is 1.25g worth of fish oil, but the EPA/DHA is unspecified. Got a link to it?

Got it today
300mg EPA
200mg DHA
also, TOTAL OMEGA-3 FATTY ACIDS 500mg
TOTAL FAT- 1g
Vit E- 1 IU

[StillWorkin]

Got it today
300mg EPA
200mg DHA
also, TOTAL OMEGA-3 FATTY ACIDS 500mg
TOTAL FAT- 1g
Vit E- 1 IU

PER cap
60 caps
$10.60

[StillWorkin]

bmp

[naturalguy]

There are advantages to getting in multiple sources of EFA's.

Keep in mind that bodybuilders do not eat a typical western diet.

[StillWorkin]

PER cap
60 caps
$10.60

[__AM__]

There are advantages to getting in multiple sources of EFA's.

Would you elaborate please?

[naturalguy]

Would you elaborate please?

It's about balance, just like there is no single source of protein that is best. You are better off getting the advantages of multiple sources rather than one single source.

[__AM__]

It's about balance, just like there is no single source of protein that is best. You are better off getting the advantages of multiple sources rather than one single source.

Different proteins have different AA profiles though Omega-3 (Which is all most Westerners need to supplement with) is the same no matter the source.

[naturalguy]

Different proteins have different AA profiles though Omega-3 (Which is all most Westerners need to supplement with) is the same no matter the source.

When it comes to EFA's it's not just about Omega-3's

[bigbuff420]

Can anyone list one that is in a vcap?

[__AM__]

When it comes to EFA's it's not just about Omega-3's

Obviously,did I imply otherwise?So do you have any studies showing a mix of EFA sources being superior to a single-sourced EFA or are you just basing your assumption on how proteins are?

[ianfkirby]

Obviously,did I imply otherwise?So do you have any studies showing a mix of EFA sources being superior to a single-sourced EFA or are you just basing your assumption on how proteins are?

...or the fact that Animal Omega is sold on the merits of having multiple sources of EFA's (7mg fat total I believe per pack) and NaturalGuy is a rep...

NaturalGuy, not stating whether you are right or wrong (I'll let the more learned ones debate that), or making any sort of judgement on your character (because you never actually pimped your product directly), just calling 'em like I see 'em.

But, in all fairness, if you reread his post, he said a varied source of PROTEIN is best, which I agree with, though in the context of this conversation (EPA/DHA) I can understand how it was construed.

Varied sources of proteins are a great idea and maybe it is beneficial to vary your sources of fats, but is there any evidence that the actual EPA/DHA is any different?

[BULLandTERRIER]

It is correct. ALA to EPA/DHA is very inefficient (~5% to 15%). And really no need for 6-9. Just stick to fish oil. Make sure you count the total EPA/DHA concentration, not the cap size. Most fish oil softgels have ~30-35% EPA/DHA concentration (to mimic the natural concentration). Here is recommended dosing:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...41&postcount=2

Fish Oil: Just The Facts ? By Alan Aragon ? 7-05-07



As a side note, there?s a widespread belief that ALA from flaxseed is worthless for increasing EPA/DHA since the conversion is inefficient. However, Harper?s team recently saw 3g ALA/day (from 5.2g flaxseed oil) raise plasma EPA levels by 60% at the end of a 12-week trial

Harper CR, et al. Flaxseed oil increases the plasma concentrations of cardioprotective (n-3) fatty acids in humans. J Nutr. 2006 Jan;136(1):83-7.

[Hansolo261]

yeah you have to be careful on the fish oil. a lot of label say 1000mg of fish oils but when you look at the epa dha content it like 180 and 120. I made this mistake in the past.

[ianfkirby]

...or the fact that Animal Omega is sold on the merits of having multiple sources of EFA's (7mg fat total I believe per pack) and NaturalGuy is a rep...

NaturalGuy, not stating whether you are right or wrong (I'll let the more learned ones debate that), or making any sort of judgement on your character (because you never actually pimped your product directly), just calling 'em like I see 'em.

But, in all fairness, if you reread his post, he said a varied source of PROTEIN is best, which I agree with, though in the context of this conversation (EPA/DHA) I can understand how it was construed.

Varied sources of proteins are a great idea and maybe it is beneficial to vary your sources of fats, but is there any evidence that the actual EPA/DHA is any different?

To be completely fair to naturalguy, I found this by Alan Aragon (who I take as gospel)

I wouldn't necessarily hype fish oil over flax. Although ALA from flax oil has poor conversion to EPA/DHA, it still has multiple health benefits:

http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/69/3/395#top

Not only that, but the EPA derived from fish oil has been observed to decrease natural killer cell (NK) activity, which has negative implications for immunity. ALA from flax was not seen to have any decreasing effect on NK.

http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/73/3/539#top

Basically it is really all about variety, because each food species in nature has unique benefit. Having both flaxseed & fatty fish in your diet is probably the optimal route.. I'd also throw in some GLA, the "good" omega-6 from borage seed or evening primrose, along with the monounsaturated omega-9's from olive oil. Barlean's makes a great product called "Omega Twin Lignan" that contains flax with lignans & borage oil.

Seems I may have been a little hasty in jumping at him since he never actually pimped any product, I was just looking for some validation of the statement he made that we needed varied multiple sources.

I just found it myself, instead of him making the argument (Which we all know he would have been flamed for pimping had he tried)

No hard feelings naturalguy.
-IK

[naturalguy]

All good guys, maybe I didn't say it right. There are benefits to taking in other EFA's other than omega 3's and DHA/EPA. Bodybuilders/athletes don't eat "typical western" diets and therefore usually do not get the right balance of EFA's in their diet.