Moving forward in Reverse: Devils post-show recovery thread

[deltpecx]

Cheers mate, my chest isn't good so they pick up all the slack
....Yeah sometimes I feel they are just stuck onto a skinny torso and everything needs to catch up

First off that was some impressive benching in the video!!
Impressive delts and arms too!!

Is the flat BB bench press your main exercise for the chest?
Have you given any thought to the idea that maybe the flat bench press isn't working for your chest?

In the video it looks as if you fully extend your arms thereby placing the weight onto the elbows, front delts and triceps.
I could be wrong about this as you were wearing a long sleeved shirt, so it was a bit difficult to see for sure.

I had that problem my front delts and triceps carried most of the load on the flat bench press.
I have since pretty much given the flat BP up for other exercises.

Lower back and errectors are shot, some days I cant touch my toes without pain so I don't know how to get them growing just yet.

I've been there before many times.
How do you train your back?

[SwedeMuscleMob]

Sickening delts and arms

[Devils]

First off that was some impressive benching in the video!!
Impressive delts and arms too!!

Is the flat BB bench press your main exercise for the chest?
Have you given any thought to the idea that maybe the flat bench press isn't working for your chest?

In the video it looks as if you fully extend your arms thereby placing the weight onto the elbows, front delts and triceps.
I could be wrong about this as you were wearing a long sleeved shirt, so it was a bit difficult to see for sure.

I had that problem my front delts and triceps carried most of the load on the flat bench press.
I have since pretty much given the flat BP up for other exercises.

I've been there before many times.
How do you train your back?

Thanks delts,

It's my main exercise for chest yes, I do tend to extend my arms at the top during the later reps, it goes back to my thinking of just going all the way up all the way down. I've played around with shorter reps but if I stop midway I tend to feel more pressure on my shoulders anyway. I could start using all the chest machines but I guess I'm just stubborn with preferring free weights were possible.

I do like to do a lot of incline dumbbell benching, I get a lot of chest work there too and it provides some good soreness.

Back training is a bit of a hit and miss, on the days when I feel good I can do weighted pullups alright, and some machine high rows, If I'm feeling really good I will do light seated row and back extensions with 0-5kg.

Sickening delts and arms

Thanks mate

[Ccm644]

Pictures look great and hitting 5 reps at that weight then saying it was a easy 5

Certainly like free weights more than machines

[SPARTAAAAA]

Lower back and errectors are shot, some days I cant touch my toes without pain so I don't know how to get them growing just yet.

mirin persistence to continue even with your situation mate. nice progress pics.

[Devils]

Pictures look great and hitting 5 reps at that weight then saying it was a easy 5

Certainly like free weights more than machines

Yeah I mean It felt like I could do 6 but just kept it short of failure so I don't burn out. I'm not supposed to be up to sets of 5 just yet so I'll give it a bit more time.

mirin persistence to continue even with your situation mate. nice progress pics.

Thanks brother, good luck with your back also. More time for computer games right?

[chickeneater]

What specifically do you feel got your arms to that level? I'm more interested in how they got that way over what you do now. Or, would you say due to lack of squatting and deads that you have more energy for upper body stuff?

I ask because I took a break from squats an dead recently and I think I'm coming to some new conclusions about my training.

[Devils]

What specifically do you feel got your arms to that level? I'm more interested in how they got that way over what you do now. Or, would you say due to lack of squatting and deads that you have more energy for upper body stuff?

I ask because I took a break from squats an dead recently and I think I'm coming to some new conclusions about my training.

The same way anyone gets a standout bodypart, genetics.

But really, as long as your training isn't holding you back, and you're getting proper nutrition and progressive overload, you will get better. After that I think it's only your genetic limits that will dictate how much they grow.

Oh and taking pumped up photos helps!

[jpfaherty]

The same way anyone gets a standout bodypart, genetics.

But really, as long as your training isn't holding you back, and you're getting proper nutrition and progressive overload, you will get better. After that I think it's only your genetic limits that will dictate how much they grow.

Oh and taking pumped up photos helps!

Pumped photos def. helps! lol

I can haz your arm genetics?

[JakeyC]

Mirin hard!
Epic log by the way. Going to look crazy if you carry on at this rate.

[Devils]

5th September 2013 / Lower / Morning Weight = 81.1kg[/size]

Training

in BOLD are PR's

Keiser Spin Bike 5 minutes @ level 16

Leg Extension 55kg x 20, 75 x 10, 105kg x 20-20-20, 110kg x 15, 50kg x 20, Single Leg 50kg x 12-10
Lying Leg Curl 55kg x 15, 75kg x 7-8, 80kg x 5
Seated Leg Curl 45kg x 15, 50kg x 12-12
Calf Extension 55kg x 20, 105kg x 20-15

Nutrition

Approx ____ calories, ___p, ___c, ___f / Meal Breakdown's


Thoughts

Comments

---------------------------------------------

7th September 2013 / Upper / Morning Weight = 82.2kg[/size]

Training

in BOLD are PR's

Keiser Spin Bike 5 minutes @ level 15

Barbell Bench Press 20kg x 25, 40kg x 10, 60kg x 4-4, 90kg x 3, 115kg x 6-6, 117kg x 5-5
Incline Dumbbell Press 40kg 8-8-6
Pullups 10 x bw, 30kg x 12-10, 40kg x 6
High Machine Row 45kg x 10-10, 50kg x 8-8
Tricep Pushdown 42kg x 10-7

Nutrition

Approx ____ calories, ___p, ___c, ___f / Meal Breakdown's


Thoughts

Another increase on the bench, almost at two sets of 6. I'll deload next workout and then plan 6-6 on Saturday. In two weeks I should be on 120 x 3, which I've never done before.

Comments


--------------------------------------------

8th September 2013 / Upper / Morning Weight = 82.8kg[/size]

Training

in BOLD are PR's

Keiser Spin Bike 5 minutes @ level 16

Leg Extension 55kg x 10, 75 x 10, 105kg x 20, 110kg x 20-20-18-15
Lying Leg Curl 55kg x 15, 75kg x 8-8-8
Seated Leg Curl 45kg x 15, 50kg x 11-10
Calf Extension 55kg x 20, 105kg x 20-15
Side Leg Raise 6.25kg x 12-12-12
Pullups 25-15

Nutrition

Approx ____ calories, ___p, ___c, ___f / Meal Breakdown's


Thoughts

New leg extension and curl PR, glad these are still going up. I remember back when 85-90kg felt hard.
Comments

[The Solution]

Got to be very pleased with the constant strength gains.

[Devils]

Got to be very pleased with the constant strength gains.

Yes, this is why I love bulking. Things just get better every week. Less conditioning but it gives you something else to look forward too.

[SPARTAAAAA]

Thanks brother, good luck with your back also. More time for computer games right?

thanks brah & GTA V in less than a week. who has time to lift. lol

[chickeneater]

Dev, I'm wondering on your take on this. I saw someone in the nutrition forum state that it's easier to gain muscle when you have very low bodyfat (assuming you are bulking correctly) than it is when you're fatter.

I've heard this before, and I recall it being from reputable members. I think it's anecdotal at most but perhaps there's some research.

Have you felt this to be the case?

[The Solution]

Dev, I'm wondering on your take on this. I saw someone in the nutrition forum state that it's easier to gain muscle when you have very low bodyfat (assuming you are bulking correctly) than it is when you're fatter.

I've heard this before, and I recall it being from reputable members. I think it's anecdotal at most but perhaps there's some research.

Have you felt this to be the case?

This is 100% True. You grow better in a leaner state.
Hence many people who compete and get to a lower BF every single time.
Metabolism increases and you are prone to holder a lower BF %

[Devils]

11th September 2013 / Upper Deload / Morning Weight = 81kg

Training

in BOLD are PR's

Barbell Bench Press 20kg x 30, 40kg x 10, 60kg x 5-5, 80kg x 3, 100kg x 6-6-6
Incline Dumbbell Press 36kg x 6-6-6
Pullups 25-15-12
High Machine Row 40kg x 8-8-8
Tricep Pushdown 35kg x 12-12
Face Pull 16.25kg x 15, 18.75kg x 15

Nutrition

Approx ____ calories, ___p, ___c, ___f / Meal Breakdown's


Thoughts

Nothing much to report, just a deload day. Everything was pretty easy.


Comments


--------------------------------------------

12th September 2013 / Lower Deload/ Morning Weight = 80.4kg

Training

in BOLD are PR's

Keiser Spin Bike 5 minutes @ level 16

Leg Extension 55kg x 10, 75 x 20, 90kg x 20-20-20
Lying Leg Curl 35kg x 15, 55kg x 15, 60kg x 8-8
Calf Extension 55kg x 20, 75kg x 20-20-20


Nutrition

Approx ____ calories, ___p, ___c, ___f / Meal Breakdown's


Thoughts

Lower body deload, felt difficult, probably a bit tired/run down.

Comments

thanks brah & GTA V in less than a week. who has time to lift. lol
PS4 hasn't come yet so I cant play

Dev, I'm wondering on your take on this. I saw someone in the nutrition forum state that it's easier to gain muscle when you have very low bodyfat (assuming you are bulking correctly) than it is when you're fatter.

I've heard this before, and I recall it being from reputable members. I think it's anecdotal at most but perhaps there's some research.

Have you felt this to be the case?

nah, I would think it's about the same. If anything you're just gaining back the muscle you lost from dieting anyway.

This is 100% True. You grow better in a leaner state.
Hence many people who compete and get to a lower BF every single time.
Metabolism increases and you are prone to holder a lower BF %

[chickeneater]

This is 100% True. You grow better in a leaner state.
Hence many people who compete and get to a lower BF every single time.
Metabolism increases and you are prone to holder a lower BF %

Thanks Sol. That's encouraging. My mental hang up is that I only get strong when I pig out (from a dirty bulk I did years ago). Knowing it will come back after I cut, and even easier is thrilling.

[chickeneater]

Dev, so you think it's just mental?

I do think that it could be the months of strict dieting lead to a
cleaner and better bulk by default because you've trained yourself to be methodical.

Then you find yourself growing muscles, more energy in workouts, and eating more delicious choices which leads to a dopamine smorgasbord.

This in turn would be the "reverese's" most beneficial factor.

To dirty bulk and cut hard only to fatten up again, while you may put on the exact amount of muscle back on, the accompanying fat gain would be enough to make one quit altogether from the depression.

So perhaps no scientific proof, but a slow reverse seems to keep one motivated in the long run, giving the illusion that working from a low bodyfat set point increases muscles faster.

[The Solution]

Thanks Sol. That's encouraging. My mental hang up is that I only get strong when I pig out (from a dirty bulk I did years ago). Knowing it will come back after I cut, and even easier is thrilling.

http://www.leangains.com/2010/03/int...point-and.html
http://www.leangains.com/2010/03/mai...-body-fat.html

[chickeneater]

http://www.leangains.com/2010/03/int...point-and.html
http://www.leangains.com/2010/03/mai...-body-fat.html

thanks, I'm a Berkan fan, I'm wondering if this is where I originally heard it from, I'll read it again and see if I understand it better this time.

[chickeneater]

Yes, this is why I love bulking. Things just get better every week. Less conditioning but it gives you something else to look forward too.

This post is kind of what I'm referring too, that a reverse bulk "gives you something to look forward too."

So is it just the mentality leads to better discipline hence better results because it's fun? That there is no scientific proof of better growth factors being leaner?

[Devils]

Dev, so you think it's just mental?

I do think that it could be the months of strict dieting lead to a
cleaner and better bulk by default because you've trained yourself to be methodical.

Then you find yourself growing muscles, more energy in workouts, and eating more delicious choices which leads to a dopamine smorgasbord.

This in turn would be the "reverese's" most beneficial factor.

To dirty bulk and cut hard only to fatten up again, while you may put on the exact amount of muscle back on, the accompanying fat gain would be enough to make one quit altogether from the depression.

So perhaps no scientific proof, but a slow reverse seems to keep one motivated in the long run, giving the illusion that working from a low bodyfat set point increases muscles faster.

I think the trick is not losing the mass in the first place when cutting down and staying strong. Also the extra mass you gained when you were in a caloric excess.

A dirty bulk simply means you eat too much too quickly resulting in more fat gain, a hard cut would mean losing more muscle than you should.

I wouldn't say my reverse was too slow, I played it by ear pretty well and managed to get back to off season calories within 8 weeks. Hormone levels took longer to recover, about 12 weeks.

If you're motivated to get to 8% bf or lower then you've already shown your dedication is solid, it shouldn't be much of a problem making the switch to bulking back up, you just have to look at it the right way. You will get fat, no matter how slow you bulk in the end you will have to cut again at some point. As long as you enjoy the ride, get stronger and increase the right measurements you'll be all good.

Hope this helps, how is your training going anyway? hope all is well and you're staying motivated.


edit:

This post is kind of what I'm referring too, that a reverse bulk "gives you something to look forward too."

So is it just the mentality leads to better discipline hence better results because it's fun? That there is no scientific proof of better growth factors being leaner?

Yeah when it comes down to it it's just fun and enjoyable, give your body the extra calories and progressive load and see if you adapt

[lukamura]

Altho I agree on most points, I can't agree with the statement of getting fat at the end of your bulk. For example, take a like of Alberto Nunez. His off-season conditioning is superior even to the guys on drugs, he just goes by a small deficit on his bulk and his gaining phase ends mostly at 9-10% bf? You can add LEAN mass for years but you gotta stay dedicated and progressive overload your muscles all the time, it's doable but people are just IMPATIENCE to do it, once they lift for a year and gain little to no strength being on minimal surplus I'd then upper the calories, other than that it's dedication and patience! But even then, if you are on a minimal surplus say you gain a pound a month and your muscles ain't growing then you're doing something wrong in the gym. Period. Building muscle doesn't require getting fat.

Getting fat is easy, very easy. Getting lean and then staying lean for the rest of your off-season isn't. It requires more effort and knowledge about training/nutrition. Don't you agree here with me?

[Devils]

Altho I agree on most points, I can't agree with the statement of getting fat at the end of your bulk. For example, take a like of Alberto Nunez. His off-season conditioning is superior even to the guys on drugs, he just goes by a small deficit on his bulk and his gaining phase ends mostly at 9-10% bf? You can add LEAN mass for years but you gotta stay dedicated and progressive overload your muscles all the time, it's doable but people are just IMPATIENCE to do it, once they lift for a year and gain little to no strength being on minimal surplus I'd then upper the calories, other than that it's dedication and patience! But even then, if you are on a minimal surplus say you gain a pound a month and your muscles ain't growing then you're doing something wrong in the gym. Period. Building muscle doesn't require getting fat.

Getting fat is easy, very easy. Getting lean and then staying lean for the rest of your off-season isn't. It requires more effort and knowledge about training/nutrition. Don't you agree here with me?

Not really,

how has your weight fluctuated in the years you have been training for example?

[chickeneater]

Hope this helps, how is your training going anyway? hope all is well and you're staying motivated.

yes, it does help. Training and motivation becoming more and more a non issue. Iifym and IF have been game changers for me at my advanced age with advanced responsibilities (family etc). I've fallen off the wagon too many times to count. The difference between me now and years ago however is of course is the Iifym and simply "start from where you are" (a Buddhist philosophy) again and again until it clicks.

Each time I started over I've picked up skills of how to get where I desire and stay there. The skills can consist of what to do about squeezing in training to how to handle my diet in abnormal situations (which I am constantly in lol).

My circumstances are unideal for what I want to accomplish. BUT "hedgiehog" says everyone has it tough and hard and that you can choose to be bitter over the circumstance or better because of them.

I thought that was cool.

One more ramble then a question, I keep thinking back to when you said the things like "never thought I'd have a six pack, and them I got them."

When you speak to the "positive thinking police" they say "never say never" blah blah. But I think it's normal to
Do that when you are working hard towards something. If you don't give yourself the freedom to say "never" you will bottle it up and explode. I recall reading " the secret" and it said the universe and or our brains can't hear the negation. Words like never, won't etc. So if I keep saying I'll never get abs, all my subconscious knows is that I'm elevating "abs" to importance and it will continue to develop skills for you to reach that goal. Ok, sorry for boring ramble.

Now the question, what do you mean your hormone levels returned? I kinda know what you mean but please ramble on this.

[Devils]

yes, it does help. Training and motivation becoming more and more a non issue. Iifym and IF have been game changers for me at my advanced age with advanced responsibilities (family etc). I've fallen off the wagon too many times to count. The difference between me now and years ago however is of course is the Iifym and simply "start from where you are" (a Buddhist philosophy) again and again until it clicks.

Now the question, what do you mean your hormone levels returned? I kinda know what you mean but please ramble on this.

Good to hear,

When you cut down to low bodyfat or have prolonged caloric restriction, your hormones levels drop and it's very frustrating. Symptoms can range from low libido, dry skin, lack of energy, broken sleep, quick temper and emotional swings. You can see how this would effect not only you, but people around you, specifically your partner.

In the weeks before and following the competition my libido was down and did not return until I had put on more weight and recovered. It's not like I couldn't do anything, but just the desire was not there.

You can understand that gaining weight too fast after dieting would not be the best idea, and yes it does take a bit of positive thinking as you have to believe it will all return to normal and that you'll be fine as long as you stay disciplined.

---------------

On another note, 30k views, thanks everyone for keeping up with the thread. It's pretty much a bulking log now on my plan to win an overall at the end of next year. Hope it's still informative.

[Devils]

14th September 2013 / Upper / Morning Weight = 81.1kg

Training

in BOLD are PR's

Keiser Spin Bike 5 mins @ level 15

Barbell Bench Press 20kg x 30, 40kg x 10, 60kg x 5-4, 80kg x 3, 117kg x 6-6-6-4
Incline Dumbbell Press 40kg x 8-8-8
Pullups bw x 10, 30kg x 12-10, 40kg x 6, 50kg x 4
High Machine Row 50kg x 8-8-8
Tricep Pushdown 28kg x 12, 41kg x 12, 48kg x 12


Nutrition

Approx ____ calories, ___p, ___c, ___f / Meal Breakdown's


Thoughts

Felt really fresh after my deload earlier in the week, ready to tear up some weight. Breakfast was 4 egg omelet with a slice of cheese, washed down with a strong black coffee and a protein shake at 6am and I also had a can of smoked tuna in oil about 1 hour before training. I trained around 12pm so my stomach was pretty empty. Got on the scales at the gym and I was 84.4kg which shoes and jumper on.

I started my warmup on the spin bike as always, the gym was really busy so I stared across into the weights room and waited for a free bench. After 5 minutes I headed over and started my long winded bench progression, I don't know why I do such a staggered warmup for bench, it just feels good to get everything lose. Anyway, broke PR's all the way through, three sets of six and then one set of 4, 1 rep from failure.

Next I got another PR on the incline press, 3 sets of 8 done without too much struggle. Although I say PR, I have lifted the 40's on incline before, but that was in the height of my bulk, I'm sure I'll surpass that soon.

Moving on, I couldn't do pullups on the big cable crossover rack so I used the smaller rack. 30kg felt ok but struggled to get 12 on the second set. 40 was about the same and I decided to do another set with the leftover 10 plate making it 50kg, got 4 good reps and called it at that. This isn't the best I've done but pretty close, I've done 60kg for 1 before, not sure what bodyweight though. I guess I could do that now when fresh.

After that was the machine rows, not too bad, and the tricep pushdowns weren't too hard. I wrapped up the workout at 12:45 as I had some Pizza's on order for 1pm at the local dominoes so me and the gf left and went to pickup lunch. Got 3 pizza's, tasty as and takes care of lunch and dinner later.

Going to rest my back and watch a movie, enjoy my day off.




Comments

[Bnizzle163]

You take such a simple, no BS approach to bodybuilding. It is seriously inspiring to see how well you progress on a week to week basis. Keep up that good work, Devils!

[Balddude]

After reading your insight on why you think bulking from a higher BF % does not really matter, I feel much more at ease. Currently sitting at 14% BF ish after cutting from 18-20% for an extended period of time, and don't want to continue to cut anymore as I am still pretty young and want to maximize my noob gains on a bulk. I guess this just means I have to pay even more diligence to not letting my bulk go too rapidly to prevent excessive fat gains.

Nice to hear you're still making huge progress leaps in the gym man, hope you continue with the string of PRs!