Over the course of two, three years, their results are usually far worse.
The problem is the focus on the 80% stuff that hardly matters. So much effort and thought goes into that, they put less effort into the 20% that matters most. They can even stop doing what matters most until they are much more advanced:
Get your scheduled reps in good form. Add 5lbs. Repeat until you are so advanced that linear progression won't deliver any more gains. Then move to a program designed for more advanced guys.
Most people never get beyond the novice stage, in terms of muscle and strength, no matter how many years they have been training.
Look at all the undeveloped guys training for years, who have been worrying too much about the fluff. They have less muscle and strength than a tennis player who never lifted weights.
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Thread: The 80/20 Rule for Lifting
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03-18-2010, 06:31 AM #91
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03-18-2010, 06:33 AM #92
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04-14-2010, 05:32 AM #93
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I have to agree with OP . I realised that most guys ,me included want results NOW . And if they don't then the exersize or diet is wrong . So in that sense i realised that to change my body 100% it breaks down to 10% exersize type / 10% stuff i eat and MOST important 80% time .
I realised my biggest enemy was to be impatient, it takes time to change the damage we did to our bodies . We mistreated it for years and yet now expect it to magically reverse that prosess in a matter of a year or shorter. So in my mind my biggest hurdle to get over is to be PATIENT and not expect impossible things to happen . But to do the time and then reap the rewards .My Personal mottos
Do the correct form and don't stroke your ego lifting heavier with bad form.
Stay of a bloody scale and concentrate on measuring tape to see progress.
No one can make you mad it is your choice if you want to get mad.
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04-14-2010, 07:49 AM #94
Just lift and eat.... I think people overcomplicate things. Getting stronger is a slow, long and hard process... only way to do it is to keep good form, lift as heavy as you can, eat right and keep at it.
Intensity, Recovery, Nutrition, Sleep- the only things that matter.
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04-14-2010, 02:33 PM #95
great article, far too often i see people worrying about which bar to use for the tricep pushdown or how many degrees should they incline bench instead of focusing on training with good form and staying consistent.
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05-11-2010, 05:17 AM #96
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This is such a great post!!! It is very true and certainly what I have observed with my own training. Thanks for the practical reminder
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit!
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05-11-2010, 05:34 AM #97
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I think some quite interesting articles could be made from simply looking at different people's needs. You could have routines for office workers with bad backs, routines for volleyballers to increase vertical jump and protect knees, routines for linebackers, routines for people who can't do a single pushup, and so on and so forth.
But that would require thought and imagination instead of just reeling off another line of stringy sticky bullsht.
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05-11-2010, 07:24 AM #98
Thanks for the reply. There's been a lot of over-thinking going on in the forums lately, too!
If the "muscle" magazines wanted to be more helpful to the average population, that would probably be the way to go for at least one article a month. But instead it's "the 300 workout" or the "Wolverine Workout" or the "Ironman Workout" or similar nonsense. And half the time they're not even talking to the guy who really trained the star.☠ By reading this post, you have agreed to my negative reputation terms of service.
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05-11-2010, 07:31 AM #99
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Amazing post, OP. A MUST-READ.
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Goals for 2014:
Deadlift: 505x1
Squat: 405x1
Bench: 275x1
Military Press: 175x1
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Live and die in the squat rack.
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05-11-2010, 07:45 AM #100
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It's true. Most can never get lifts like benching and rowing 100% their bodyweight, squatting 150%, and deadlifting 175%. So much so that they may claim it's impossible because they've some injury (an injury which strangely they never get treated), they're over 30, a woman, or whatever. Then they claim to know lots because they've been there so long. Yeah, and I was at high school eight years, it must have been because I was so smart.
When I started up at my gym last year, I was benching 40kg and was impressed by the guy who benched in the 80s kg, he'd been there for years. 4-5 months later I was benching in the 80s kg and he was... doing the same. I was also squatting and deadlifting, nothing awesome but more than I'd done when I started. He couldn't squat because his shoulder hurt, interestingly it never hurt during bench press.
"It's not that I can't stick to a routine for more than 4 workouts in a row, it's because I haven't found the right night-time protein powder."
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05-11-2010, 07:48 AM #101
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Awesome post, should be mandatory reading for everybody.
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05-27-2010, 01:21 PM #102
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In to read later
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06-10-2010, 12:04 PM #103
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Awesome post, OP. This has really helped me as someone who is just getting into lifting and was getting extremely overwhelmed by all of the different forms of advice in workouts, supplements, etc. Thank you.
I think I can relate to the mindset of this thread. I was fortunate to be a part of an amazing football program when I was younger. It was a typical program that had different weight limits for different ages and such. Countless championships were won on every level. There was truly a tradition of winning there. Pretty much every coach stuck to their own age level for years at a time, because why stray from something you know about and have experience with? Throughout all of the age levels, the ideas remained the same: simple, basic, fundamental football. Every playbook consisted of about 6 plays. From these plays there were obviously variations, but everything came back to those original plays. And every year teams found success.
To sum up that rant, it's really about just sticking with the basics. Use what you know to your advantage, and don't worry about stupid extra stuff because it will only get in your way. We didn't need a triple reverse flea flicker to score a touchdown, just like you don't need to hang upside-down from a pull-up bar at exactly 45.7 degrees while doing DB curls to get the most out of your workout.Last edited by RewindByChance; 06-10-2010 at 03:02 PM.
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06-10-2010, 12:45 PM #104
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06-10-2010, 01:15 PM #105
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06-10-2010, 01:23 PM #106
omg, this is the messiah of threads. Thank you for posting this...I like that 80/20 rule, and I think I fall into the obsessing over silly things that really in the long run, don't matter to one's overall success. I can't help but wonder why we do that? (or maybe that's just me)
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06-10-2010, 04:02 PM #107
Last edited by gomez26; 06-10-2010 at 04:09 PM.
"Though the concept is not scientifically validated in detail (it should be considered as a hypothesis rather than a scientific theory), it is useful from a practical standpoint. When training athletes, it is impossible to wait until scientific research provides all of the necessary knowledge." Vladmir M. Zatsiorsky, Ph.D.
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06-10-2010, 04:28 PM #108
Adding to what gomez wrote, the "bigger picture" is really nothing more than sticking to the basics, trying to add weight whenever possible, and eating right. You can't get much more basic than that.
So many times I've read about guys asking: "What do you think of my four-day split?" and they weigh around 150 pounds and list all these "magic" supplements and so on. Now, I have nothing against reasonable supplementation and nothing against splits, but whenever someone who weighs 150 pounds and can't even bench his weight writes something like that, it doesn't make me laugh--it saddens me.
Call me an old fart, but I really think the old-timers did it best. They ate basic food i.e. meat and veggies and bread and drank milk, they trained hard and as heavy as possible on all the major exericses, and they grew. Not monstrous by today's steroid standards, but they were big, quite strong, and healthy-looking. Granted, the old-timers like Park, Grimek, Reeves, Eiferman, and the others were genetic wonders for the most part, but they all had one thing in common: They trained hard and progressively, and that's where I think a lot of the kids today go wrong. Not all, mind you, but IMHO a lot.
If the muscle mags really wanted to help the young dudes and dudettes of today, they'd publish something more or less along the lines of what Vox originally wrote. Sadly, for the most part (with the exception of Bill Starr and a couple of others) they won't."Don't call me Miss Kitty. Just...don't."--Catnip. Check out the Catnip Trilogy on Amazon.com
"Chivalry isn't dead. It just wears a skirt."--Twisted, the YA gender bender deal of the century!
Check out my links to Mr. Taxi, Star Maps, and other fine YA Action/Romance novels at http://www.amazon.com/J.S.-Frankel/e/B004XUUTB8/ref=dp_byline_cont_ebooks_1
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06-10-2010, 06:09 PM #109
^^ this
and why won't they, is the question??
I read fitness magazines, and honestly...I have read snippits here and there regarding strength training, in general...but the advice given here today, never seems to be captured in one ''convenient'' spot (article)...like where you can take it all in at once. I don't know if I'm articulating that right.
Seriously vox? I can't thank you enough. I don't want to be a figure competitor or anything, but the advice here can be for anyone...to take their routines to new levels. Or who just want to get leaner and stronger, for pete's sakes! You made it easy to understand...and digest. I think some fitness authors like to get too fancy or something. Complicate the process.
Grazie!
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06-10-2010, 06:35 PM #110
Whatevergirl,
Why won't the mags publish the truth?
Because most people can't handle the truth! (Yes, I'm channeling Jack Nicholson).
The truth is, muscle growth, with the exception of the genetic elite, is a slow, gradual, and sometimes frustrating process. Today's generation wants it all NOW; someone said that in a previous post and he's right. We want instant gratification, instant results, and the mags play upon those desires. They publish the "Before/After" photos and I'm sure those men and women got those results, but notice the fine print: "Results will vary." "Use a good diet and exercise program." Not to mention that the models are usually in the industry, have been in great condition before, and are remunerated for their efforts.
Do the young people out there know that? Some of them do and some don't. The bottom line is this for pretty much everyone: Work hard, train progressively, lift within your capabilities at that point in time, don't compare yourself to others, and keep at it. Vox, Ironwill, and a few others have been saying that ad infinitum and it's solid advice. As long as you find the diet/programme that suits you and you keep at it, then you will get what you are looking for."Don't call me Miss Kitty. Just...don't."--Catnip. Check out the Catnip Trilogy on Amazon.com
"Chivalry isn't dead. It just wears a skirt."--Twisted, the YA gender bender deal of the century!
Check out my links to Mr. Taxi, Star Maps, and other fine YA Action/Romance novels at http://www.amazon.com/J.S.-Frankel/e/B004XUUTB8/ref=dp_byline_cont_ebooks_1
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06-10-2010, 06:43 PM #111
So true! You know what I think? lol What vox has posted here is hard to follow, but simple advice...you know? That's it, really. We live in a culture that wants the wonder pill to lose weight...the wonder pill to get this or that result. Nothing brings results except a healthy diet, and HARD CONSISTENT WORK. Period. While I'm not 'new' to weight lifting, I'm more into running and cycling...and the same advice I've read in this thread...can carry over to ANY sport, really. That's the problem with people today though...they want a quick fix. Come on...you look at the pros and people really think there's an 'easy' way to look like THAT?? haha Seriously? Really?
So...yes, you are so right...and while it definitely takes patience, which I gravely lack at times ...the end results, when you know you're working your arse off...is just so beyond words. That feeling of earning your results. Thanks for the reply, Guy.
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06-10-2010, 07:03 PM #112
Thanks, guys. I appreciate the positive feedback.
The reason magazines are all over the place with advice is because frankly, reality is pretty boring. You can't write dozens of monthly articles, every month, separate yourself from other magazines, and sell add space by running the same advice every month. Everyone would be able to buy about two or three magazines and have all the advice they could probably every use. That's not going to keep people coming back to the information trough for very long.
We also live in a society where "newer is better" and we look to technology to make things simple and easy. That's great, but when it comes to bodybuilding what works today is basically what's always worked, and most "technology" (legal supplements, fancy machines, etc.) isn't really all that much of a benefit. Granted, we know more now about what makes the basics work, but it's easy to get carried away with the science. (Like some study showing that squats cause the body to produce extra growth hormones, and suddenly thinking that the amount produced is so significant that we only have to do squats.)☠ By reading this post, you have agreed to my negative reputation terms of service.
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06-10-2010, 07:11 PM #113
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I will say, every beginner should read Robert Kennedy's 1001 Muscle Building Tips (you get it free with a subscription to MuscleMag). The first chapter provides answers to 90% of the most common questions we see on here.
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06-10-2010, 07:34 PM #114
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06-10-2010, 07:54 PM #115
Great!
Definitely a great post. I always see people on here that over analyze just about everything. Bodybuilding boils down to consistency, a clean diet, and hard ass work in the gym. Let it be that and don't make yourself crazy about the little things!!!
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The reason why I do that, put my body through all that....Because I love it. -Ronnie Coleman
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06-10-2010, 09:21 PM #116
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Why isn't this a sticky yet? This should be on every fitness related website.
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06-10-2010, 10:27 PM #117
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06-10-2010, 10:32 PM #118
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Great Post!
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06-11-2010, 06:04 AM #119
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06-11-2010, 06:34 AM #120
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