"Fierce 5" Novice Routine

[Metalmank]

So decided to not go to the gym tonight or at all (3 day rest I guess) mainly due to the fact Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday of next week are all finals although monday is really what IM focusing on because it will decide whether or not I pass my two other classes all linked together.

So im studying my arse off and decided to use that hour 1/2 - 2 hour gym time for study time. Start back up monday all rested up (Not really as I wont sleep much while studying lol)

[jcoales12]

Started lifting 72.5kg on bench press this week. Don't seem to feel the muscles In my chest working too hard though. It's more my arms and a little bit of shoulders. Is this normal? Does anyone else get this? Or is it just me?

[davisj3537]

Started lifting 72.5kg on bench press this week. Don't seem to feel the muscles In my chest working too hard though. It's more my arms and a little bit of shoulders. Is this normal? Does anyone else get this? Or is it just me?

Everyone is different. I'm the same as you.

[joshdbeard]

Davis and Co. --- I will make a return to this thread with a new username, @beardohio, where I will do my posting from now on. I made this account using my full name back in 2012 and now that I am using it on the forums it's time for a change.

I will get an updated Log/Journal thread and post it in here when I have it ready.
Will get my avatar/signature back in line asap as well.

Hope everyone is wrapping up the week successfully!

[GreatNes]

Your video and problems I have been addressing are all for Bench...I have not commented on your squat.

oh well ..... yeah on bench breathing is bad and my form probably is causing power leaks .

[GreatNes]

For reals. My muscles can handle way more than my joints. I'm just like "put some titanium in there or something FFS." lol

If you're bulking and this is your second reset at the same weight you may want to go intermediate. Don't get me wrong, your lifts are still a bit low for that, BUT progression ability is a better indicator than the actual weight lifted. You may do a little better on the upper/lower.

yes i've been bulking for 6 months , i was expecting to be intermediate with about 20lbs more to my lifts . maybe its because i squat lower then paralele ( untill i get close to my max then i go paralele ) ?

lifts now

135-140lbs bench

195lbs squat

155 lbs rdl

115lbs front squat ( 135lbs leg power wise but cant hold bar up around this weight )



i wanted to finish the program with

140-150lbs bench

210-220 lbs squat

170-180 lbs rdl

125-135 fornt squat

[beardohio]

Davis and Co. --- I will make a return to this thread with a new username, @beardohio, where I will do my posting from now on. I made this account using my full name back in 2012 and now that I am using it on the forums it's time for a change.

I will get an updated Log/Journal thread and post it in here when I have it ready.
Will get my avatar/signature back in line asap as well.

Hope everyone is wrapping up the week successfully!

Get in here, fellow Fierce 5 Novices!

New Workout Journal: forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=169833523

[ShortShorts91]

Very nice program, I like it a lot! I have question though. Every weekend I walk 20km(~12 miles) with a 20kg(~45lbs) backpack. My weight is 70kg(155lbs). I've been following this program for two months, progressing in strength and so far no injuries. Is it a good idea to keep going or should I change some exercise? I'm worried it will take its toll on my back and shoulders in the long run.

Thanks.

[ATDoel]

I want to sub out front squats and I noticed that paused back squats are listed as an acceptable sub. Is there any advantage to doing front squats as opposed to paused back squats? How long should the pause be? I hate front squats, but if there is a significant advantage to them I'll suck it up.

[beardohio]

Very nice program, I like it a lot! I have question though. Every weekend I walk 20km(~12 miles) with a 20kg(~45lbs) backpack. My weight is 70kg(155lbs). I've been following this program for two months, progressing in strength and so far no injuries. Is it a good idea to keep going or should I change some exercise? I'm worried it will take its toll on my back and shoulders in the long run.

Thanks.

If anything I would imagine that your weekend walks get considerably easier as you progress.

Don't overthink...if your body tells you to slow down, slow down.

[Stigmochelys]

I have been running the Upper/Lower program and have been making reasonable progress on all of my lifts, except for squats which have been basically stagnant. I have deloaded multiple times but get stuck at the same place over and over again. Front squat stalls at about 85 – 95lbs and back squat at about 105 lbs. If I try to push through my form breaks down and I start to good morning the weight up. My mobility is good, not quite ATG but close. There are some pretty good lifters at my gym and they have given me help with form, that all seems to be in order. But as far as programming it is a bit of a coin toss. It seems that my quads are weak, I have been doing lots of front squat to try and bring them up. I can leg curl four times what I can do for leg extensions and I am fairly strong on deadlifts and RDL’s. Oddly enough even my leg press is slowly getting better.

Should I turn one of the leg days into a higher rep day? Or would some accessory exercises help, if so which ones? I can also add another leg day, or maybe superset some leg work into an upper body day.

Also, I eat at least 80g of protein per day and have been gaining about 1lb per month.

Any help would be appreciated, what I am doing now just isn’t working. I am getting pretty frustrated with the lack of progress and the paltry numbers.

I also posted this question in the comprehensive thread but am that hoping that someone here can give me some ideas.

Thanks

[Kanvus]

guys did what you suggested at squats, and I think i did it wrong it felt like the bar was hitting the bone at the top end of my shoulder, also While doing reverse flies I felt an Injury like pain at the back left top of my shoulder what is this?

[davisj3537]

Davis and Co. --- I will make a return to this thread with a new username, @beardohio, where I will do my posting from now on. I made this account using my full name back in 2012 and now that I am using it on the forums it's time for a change.

I will get an updated Log/Journal thread and post it in here when I have it ready.
Will get my avatar/signature back in line asap as well.

Hope everyone is wrapping up the week successfully!

Looks like you already had someone ban this for you. If you need help changing anything else, let me know. I can edit just about anything for you.

yes i've been bulking for 6 months , i was expecting to be intermediate with about 20lbs more to my lifts . maybe its because i squat lower then paralele ( untill i get close to my max then i go paralele ) ?

lifts now

135-140lbs bench

195lbs squat

155 lbs rdl

115lbs front squat ( 135lbs leg power wise but cant hold bar up around this weight )



i wanted to finish the program with

140-150lbs bench

210-220 lbs squat

170-180 lbs rdl

125-135 fornt squat

Don't let the numbers bother you so much. Give it a shot.

Get in here, fellow Fierce 5 Novices!

New Workout Journal: forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=169833523

Like I said before this will be a log to follow. Big things are going to happen.

Very nice program, I like it a lot! I have question though. Every weekend I walk 20km(~12 miles) with a 20kg(~45lbs) backpack. My weight is 70kg(155lbs). I've been following this program for two months, progressing in strength and so far no injuries. Is it a good idea to keep going or should I change some exercise? I'm worried it will take its toll on my back and shoulders in the long run.

Thanks.

Your back and shoulder should benefit from this program. It should not hinder your walking.

I want to sub out front squats and I noticed that paused back squats are listed as an acceptable sub. Is there any advantage to doing front squats as opposed to paused back squats? How long should the pause be? I hate front squats, but if there is a significant advantage to them I'll suck it up.

Front squats are vastly superior. It is the best lift in the entire program. I know the form can be tough at first, but you should really put in the time to learn them. The pain goes away after a bit and you'll eventually learn to love them. I also used to hate them honestly.

I have been running the Upper/Lower program and have been making reasonable progress on all of my lifts, except for squats which have been basically stagnant. I have deloaded multiple times but get stuck at the same place over and over again. Front squat stalls at about 85 – 95lbs and back squat at about 105 lbs. If I try to push through my form breaks down and I start to good morning the weight up. My mobility is good, not quite ATG but close. There are some pretty good lifters at my gym and they have given me help with form, that all seems to be in order. But as far as programming it is a bit of a coin toss. It seems that my quads are weak, I have been doing lots of front squat to try and bring them up. I can leg curl four times what I can do for leg extensions and I am fairly strong on deadlifts and RDL’s. Oddly enough even my leg press is slowly getting better.

Should I turn one of the leg days into a higher rep day? Or would some accessory exercises help, if so which ones? I can also add another leg day, or maybe superset some leg work into an upper body day.

Also, I eat at least 80g of protein per day and have been gaining about 1lb per month.

Any help would be appreciated, what I am doing now just isn’t working. I am getting pretty frustrated with the lack of progress and the paltry numbers.

I also posted this question in the comprehensive thread but am that hoping that someone here can give me some ideas.

Thanks

I remember you posting this in the comprehensive thread. I assumed for some reason it was about the novice program. Regardless, I'll answer what I can in here.

I wouldn't try to compare leg curls to extensions. Every machine has different leverages. For example on some leg press machines I can press 1300lbs 3x10. On others I struggle to get 600lbs 3x10.

A quad deficiency is possible, but I'd prefer to see a video. Many big guys/experienced lifters mean well, but commonly don't know WTF they're talking about. I'm not saying that is the guys who checked your form, but I'd like to see it to confirm. Most people are fukking clueless.

The first change I'd consider making is upping reps for squats. Just curious what you're RDLing BTW. It's hard for me to advise more changes without video. I'm assuming you have been deloading every 6 weeks or so and it sounds like you've also been resetting.

guys did what you suggested at squats, and I think i did it wrong it felt like the bar was hitting the bone at the top end of my shoulder, also While doing reverse flies I felt an Injury like pain at the back left top of my shoulder what is this?

Can you link me to just one of the responses giving you advice on this? It will save me a lot of time going back to research it and see what, if anything, is going wrong. Video would be helpful of your squat. The bar should never touch any bones. It either rests on your upper traps or on the rear delts and mid traps...no bone.

[Aaronn]

When do I switch over to the intermediate routine? I've been doing this for 6 months now on a slight bulk eating just over maintenance. Not really sure what my lifts started at because I started each exercise at a very low weight way below what I was capable of, so I could ease into training to get my muscles to adapt optimally. Allthough, I do remember attempting 135 lbs bench on my first day and I got 3 reps lol.

My lifts now are, bench 175 x5, squat 200 x5, OHP 110 x5, RDL 175 x5 and I've gained roughly 12-14 lbs in weight since starting the routine.

What do you think?

[jcoales12]

Cheers Davis. Also another question I've had my cals increased by 150 a a day extra for a week and my weight hasn't started going up again yet? I mean I'm only 6,2 and 177 pounds at the moment and naturally my metabolism isn't great so this should be plenty. I was on 2700 before the increase and was going up fine until I stalled. Do I dare go up by a further 100 to 2950 or do I wait and see for another week? Cheers all in advance. Have a good weekend

[jeffersonranada]

Thanks joshdbeard and davis. Maybe that's why I always have this huge pump when I was still doing bro splits.

[JimmyJonny]

Hmm, I said I was gonna take some time away but since my son started I decided to stay.....

but......

I will be running Smolov Jr for squats. My squats have really suffered since my neck surgery but I'm ready to give it hell. I have ran the program before and the results were good.

Atm I'm unemployed so lifting is my priority. I started bulking this week too, I put on 5 pounds this week...... my average " water weight ".

My goals are :
To get my squat numbers up. It's my 1# goal.
Stay with fierce 5 lifts. Down side is DL's will be once a week.
Hit bw of 160-165. My heaviest while lifting is 161.

Any thoughts or concerns ?

[beardohio]

Looks like you already had someone ban this for you. If you need help changing anything else, let me know. I can edit just about anything for you.

Like I said before this will be a log to follow. Big things are going to happen.

MC helped me out last night, Davis. Thanks for reaching out...the old account is banned and my Fierce 5 log is back in action...I think I'm set! Just have to work back up to 50 posts but that will come with time.

Thanks, hope all is well on your end.

[JimmyJonny]

Cheers Davis. Also another question I've had my cals increased by 150 a a day extra for a week and my weight hasn't started going up again yet? I mean I'm only 6,2 and 177 pounds at the moment and naturally my metabolism isn't great so this should be plenty. I was on 2700 before the increase and was going up fine until I stalled. Do I dare go up by a further 100 to 2950 or do I wait and see for another week? Cheers all in advance. Have a good weekend

Sometimes it's hard to tell in just one week but yes, bump it up. It takes 3k for me to bulk and I'm only 5'8". I will normally stall at some point, it's normal. I'll eat at maintenance for a few weeks then after that my weight will start going up again.

My advice is to track everything. In my journal , every Monday, I write down my weight, my daily cals, and how many hours I worked the previous week.

[jrpl]

Guys, I've been following Novice program for like 5-6 weeks now, my lifts are:
Bench 160lbs, RDL 210lbs, Pendlay Rows 130 lbs and Back Squat 145 lbs... squat is by far the worst for me due to mobility issues and fear of failure to be honest, well I'm trying to work on both I guess. However I've recorded some videos, could you please criticize my form? On squat those are some additional reps I did for videos purposes, pendlay was regular set.

[GreatNes]

Looks like you already had someone ban this for you. If you need help changing anything else, let me know. I can edit just about anything for you.

Don't let the numbers bother you so much. Give it a shot.

Like I said before this will be a log to follow. Big things are going to happen.
Your back and shoulder should benefit from this program. It should not hinder your walking.

Front squats are vastly superior. It is the best lift in the entire program. I know the form can be tough at first, but you should really put in the time to learn them. The pain goes away after a bit and you'll eventually learn to love them. I also used to hate them honestly.

I remember you posting this in the comprehensive thread. I assumed for some reason it was about the novice program. Regardless, I'll answer what I can in here.

I wouldn't try to compare leg curls to extensions. Every machine has different leverages. For example on some leg press machines I can press 1300lbs 3x10. On others I struggle to get 600lbs 3x10.

A quad deficiency is possible, but I'd prefer to see a video. Many big guys/experienced lifters mean well, but commonly don't know WTF they're talking about. I'm not saying that is the guys who checked your form, but I'd like to see it to confirm. Most people are fukking clueless.

The first change I'd consider making is upping reps for squats. Just curious what you're RDLing BTW. It's hard for me to advise more changes without video. I'm assuming you have been deloading every 6 weeks or so and it sounds like you've also been resetting.

Can you link me to just one of the responses giving you advice on this? It will save me a lot of time going back to research it and see what, if anything, is going wrong. Video would be helpful of your squat. The bar should never touch any bones. It either rests on your upper traps or on the rear delts and mid traps...no bone.

holy **** at the volume increase this is probably a good time to start this since i still have 3 months bulk left i guess i'll try this next week i still have a workout b to do this week . do the same subs from the novice program still apply to the intermediate program , i didnt do pendlays i did cable rows and i cant do pull ups yet maybe once i cut to 140-150lbs i can but not at 164lbs .

[davisj3537]

When do I switch over to the intermediate routine? I've been doing this for 6 months now on a slight bulk eating just over maintenance. Not really sure what my lifts started at because I started each exercise at a very low weight way below what I was capable of, so I could ease into training to get my muscles to adapt optimally. Allthough, I do remember attempting 135 lbs bench on my first day and I got 3 reps lol.

My lifts now are, bench 175 x5, squat 200 x5, OHP 110 x5, RDL 175 x5 and I've gained roughly 12-14 lbs in weight since starting the routine.

What do you think?

Hard to say Aaronn. I'd say go with your gut. If you're really starting to reach your limits then switch, but if you are still going strong then maybe you shouldn't. Bench is reaching a limit for sure, but squats and RDL can likely continue to go up, but I'm just guessing. Only you can really answer this question.

Cheers Davis. Also another question I've had my cals increased by 150 a a day extra for a week and my weight hasn't started going up again yet? I mean I'm only 6,2 and 177 pounds at the moment and naturally my metabolism isn't great so this should be plenty. I was on 2700 before the increase and was going up fine until I stalled. Do I dare go up by a further 100 to 2950 or do I wait and see for another week? Cheers all in advance. Have a good weekend

150 a day isn't much, but if you were already bulking successfully then 150 doesn't sound unreasonable. Give it another week and then up by another 100-150 if needed.

Hmm, I said I was gonna take some time away but since my son started I decided to stay.....

but......

I will be running Smolov Jr for squats. My squats have really suffered since my neck surgery but I'm ready to give it hell. I have ran the program before and the results were good.

Atm I'm unemployed so lifting is my priority. I started bulking this week too, I put on 5 pounds this week...... my average " water weight ".

My goals are :
To get my squat numbers up. It's my 1# goal.
Stay with fierce 5 lifts. Down side is DL's will be once a week.
Hit bw of 160-165. My heaviest while lifting is 161.

Any thoughts or concerns ?

Sounds like a reasonable approach. I wouldn't normally advise smolov for a "beginner", but I think you'll do fine with it given your history.

holy **** at the volume increase this is probably a good time to start this since i still have 3 months bulk left i guess i'll try this next week i still have a workout b to do this week . do the same subs from the novice program still apply to the intermediate program , i didnt do pendlays i did cable rows and i cant do pull ups yet maybe once i cut to 140-150lbs i can but not at 164lbs .

Different subs for intermediate program. You'll have to read that thread for more info. Some of the subs are the same, but others are different.

Guys, I've been following Novice program for like 5-6 weeks now, my lifts are:
Bench 160lbs, RDL 210lbs, Pendlay Rows 130 lbs and Back Squat 145 lbs... squat is by far the worst for me due to mobility issues and fear of failure to be honest, well I'm trying to work on both I guess. However I've recorded some videos, could you please criticize my form? On squat those are some additional reps I did for videos purposes, pendlay was regular set.

Lower back is a bit rounded during pendlays. Try to straighten it up a bit.

Honestly the squats look pretty good. I don't see any major flaws.

[Cecat7]

Started lifting 72.5kg on bench press this week. Don't seem to feel the muscles In my chest working too hard though. It's more my arms and a little bit of shoulders. Is this normal? Does anyone else get this? Or is it just me?

Had the same problem. After some tweaks now my chest is actually sore the next day from benching, although my front delts still take a hit during bench press.

Try to improve the mind muscle connection. Try to bench press without weights (not even a bar) and focus on squeezing the chest muscles at the top of the movement. Then try this with a bar and focus on feeling the stretch at the bottom of the movement. Then when you actually feel how your muscles work, try to push with your chest and don't focus on your triceps/delts. Slowly add weight to the bar until you no longer feel the muscles working. Start benching again with this weight and add weights every week until you reach your current bench number.

As for form: what helped me was really retracting my scapula but not arching my back that much. A wider grip also activates more chest but can possibly feel awkward and puts more stress than necessary on the shoulders. Also, lower the bar under your chest instead of just above the nipples and try to not flare your elbows. This helped me push with my chest.

This doesn't allow me to bench as heavy as I possibly could, but I can see my chest growing and causes less shoulder pain. Unless you are solely training for strength, I think this is the way to go

[Cecat7]

Hard to say on the bench and delt takeover. Mine are very similar in that my shoulders are always failing first. Your chest will still grow and on the plus side your shoulders will be huge. Keep playing around with scap retraction and MMC and see if anything changes, but I don't really think at this point that anything is "wrong."

Good job on your lifts in general. Seems like you're really seeing a great improvement.

Stance is preference. Closer works more quads and wider brings in more posterior chain. Perfectly fine. What I'd consider doing is working with your PT to find what stance is best for you and your individual mechanical limitations. I'm not familiar with your issue and frankly not qualified to give you good advice concerning it.

Yes I'm finally seeing some results, really love going to the gym now. Also seeing some changes on my body, which is 90% about nutrition as I learnt these past couple of weeks.

And I see what you mean by a wider stance activates more posterior muscles, my butt and hamstrings feel really sore after squatting now haha!

Should I add in an extra quad exercise to make sure my quads get enough work? And which one? I read that leg press with feet close together and high on the plate activates quads the most.

[dannyhetzel]

So I've been at this workout for 3 months, but I stopped for about a month due to personal reasons. I want to pick it back up but is there a certain amount of weight I should drop for a deload? Or is it just kinda something for me to figure out on my own

[Stigmochelys]

Hi Davis,

I don't post much on line but I will see what I can do about putting up a video. I'll have to wait for a quiet day at the gym so that I am not tying up the squat rack for too long.

Currently for RDL's 135lbs for 3 sets of 10. For Conventional deadlifts, 195lbs is my working weight but today I did 210lbs just to see what it felt like (it felt heavy).

I find front squats much easier on the body as it eliminates my tendency to good morning the weight up. How would it affect the overall program to just do front squats twice a week (at least until I get the back squat figured out)?

[xXxMVPete]

Finally getting back into the swing of things and have a lot of weight to lose (old stats). I'm still novice level with my lift and I have more than 30 lbs to lose before I'm in any type of acceptable shape. The FAQ says that anyone with 30 or more pounds to cut should use All-Pro's. My question is should I just use All Pro's until I have less than 30 lbs to lose and then switch to this program or should I just stay on All Pro's until my cut is finished?

[MyEgoProblem]

Front squats are vastly superior. It is the best lift in the entire program. I know the form can be tough at first, but you should really put in the time to learn them. The pain goes away after a bit and you'll eventually learn to love them. I also used to hate them honestly.
.

I don't know about vastly superior ;-) they both have excellent upsides!

But I do agree, nothing has carry over to the squat, dead and row, and in turn legs and upper back development .. The thorasic building of the front squat when you get wheels on the bar is exceptional.

That been said, raw lifters get stuck at the bottom and the pause squat (paused in the hole) has a better joint angle specificity and closer movement pattern to the comp squat, and aids in that sticking point better.

Now I'll add that this point is more aimed at people PAST the novice stage, who need more specific assistance to their main lifts. but who also almost paradoxically need more volume and variety to build general strength and not over do movement patterns.

But, i would do both! Even if you just do paused joker sets, or just pause your warm ups! Can say the same for bench and dead to really.

Personally nothing pushed my back squat and deadlift up better than the front squatin in all general terms .. But the paused back squat was better for blasting out of the hole when that felt like a sticking point.

[davisj3537]

Yes I'm finally seeing some results, really love going to the gym now. Also seeing some changes on my body, which is 90% about nutrition as I learnt these past couple of weeks.

And I see what you mean by a wider stance activates more posterior muscles, my butt and hamstrings feel really sore after squatting now haha!

Should I add in an extra quad exercise to make sure my quads get enough work? And which one? I read that leg press with feet close together and high on the plate activates quads the most.

That is what front squats are for. Don't add anything. Wider stance squats are still quad dominant.

So I've been at this workout for 3 months, but I stopped for about a month due to personal reasons. I want to pick it back up but is there a certain amount of weight I should drop for a deload? Or is it just kinda something for me to figure out on my own

Go in light and figure it out from there. Conservative is a good choice.

Hi Davis,

I don't post much on line but I will see what I can do about putting up a video. I'll have to wait for a quiet day at the gym so that I am not tying up the squat rack for too long.

Currently for RDL's 135lbs for 3 sets of 10. For Conventional deadlifts, 195lbs is my working weight but today I did 210lbs just to see what it felt like (it felt heavy).

I find front squats much easier on the body as it eliminates my tendency to good morning the weight up. How would it affect the overall program to just do front squats twice a week (at least until I get the back squat figured out)?

No real issues with that short term. Your front squat so close to your back squat certainly tells me you're struggling with something major on back squats. Your back squat should be in the mid 100s but that is just a wild generalization.

Just need one video of a working set. Should't take any longer than a normal squat session. Hopefully directly out to the side.

Finally getting back into the swing of things and have a lot of weight to lose (old stats). I'm still novice level with my lift and I have more than 30 lbs to lose before I'm in any type of acceptable shape. The FAQ says that anyone with 30 or more pounds to cut should use All-Pro's. My question is should I just use All Pro's until I have less than 30 lbs to lose and then switch to this program or should I just stay on All Pro's until my cut is finished?

Your call. At the point of having lost 30lbs All pros picks up considerably. If you enjoy it I'd stay on it. Be sure to be evaluated by a Physical Therapist afterwards as you may have some muscular imbalances. That's something I advise yearly for anyone to be honest.

I don't know about vastly superior ;-) they both have excellent upsides!

But I do agree, nothing has carry over to the squat, dead and row, and in turn legs and upper back development .. The thorasic building of the front squat when you get wheels on the bar is exceptional.

That been said, raw lifters get stuck at the bottom and the pause squat (paused in the hole) has a better joint angle specificity and closer movement pattern to the comp squat, and aids in that sticking point better.

Now I'll add that this point is more aimed at people PAST the novice stage, who need more specific assistance to their main lifts. but who also almost paradoxically need more volume and variety to build general strength and not over do movement patterns.

But, i would do both! Even if you just do paused joker sets, or just pause your warm ups! Can say the same for bench and dead to really.

Personally nothing pushed my back squat and deadlift up better than the front squatin in all general terms .. But the paused back squat was better for blasting out of the hole when that felt like a sticking point.

I might have exaggerated a bit I just really love the FS. The front squat does have some nice upper body benefits that aren't really seen in the pause back squat.

The paused back squat and front squat both have ups and downs in terms of beginners doing them. Front squats are difficult to master, but IMO are a compound lift that all lifters should be proficient at. Pause back squats help ingrain back squat form for a novice so that is nice not to have them learning several completely different squats, but so many novices will lose all tightness in the hole and round their backs. Not so common in the FS.

I agree with you. There are clear benefits to both. Hence why they are both in the program. Actually put them in per request of someone who ran the program and felt they would be helpful.

[beardohio]

I might have exaggerated a bit I just really love the FS. The front squat does have some nice upper body benefits that aren't really seen in the pause back squat.

No exaggeration...front squats are the GOAT. While I am most interested in the future progression of my back squats...front squats have been the most enjoyable for me so far.

Ego, you know you love those front squats.