"Fierce 5" Novice Routine

[davisj3537]

FIERCE 5

I decided to design "Fierce 5" because I wasn't completely satisfied with any of the other novice programs that are so popular. In my opinion they all had a flaw or two (slow progression, high volume, low enough volume people lose interest and most of them lack what I’d consider proper balance), albeit small inadequacies in most cases.

Fierce 5 is comprised of 5 simple workouts (supersets combined) that should take just over an hour to complete including stretching and warmups. You will be working out 3 nonconsecutive days a week and alternating between workouts A & B. Ex: Mon-A, Tues-Rest, Wed-B, Thur-Rest, Fri-A, Sat-Rest, Sun-Rest, Mon-B…etc. Each week you’ll add 5 lbs to all of your upper body lifts* and 10lbs to all of your lower body lifts.

*Reverse flies will increase 5lbs per month and should never increase over 15lbs per hand if using DBs, leg curls (if subbed) will increase 5lbs per week and ab work increases in reps (try adding a few reps each week.) If you are unable to increase weight in these increments due to equipment limitations then, for that exercise only, increase weight every other week. For the exercises in the 5 rep range add 1 rep per set during the weeks you aren’t increasing weight. For exercises in the 8-15 range add 2 reps per set during weeks you aren’t increasing weight.

This is a question I'm repeatedly asked so here is a progression example:
Monday-Squat-200, Bench-150
Wednesday-RDL-200, OHP-100
Friday-Squat-200, Bench-150
Weekend of rest
Monday-RDL-210, OHP-105
Wednesday-Squat-210, Bench-155
Friday-RDL-210, OHP-105


Workout A
Squat 3x5
Bench 3x5
Pendlay Rows 3x8
Face Pulls 3x10
Calf raises 2x15/Tricep pressdowns 2x10 Superset

Workout B
Front Squat 3x5
Overhead Press 3x5
Romanian Deadlift 3x8
Lat Pulldowns 3x8 (any grip)
Ab work 2x15/Bicep curls 2x10 Superset (I don’t care what ab work you do)

Acceptable Substitutions
Face Pulls-Reverse Flies
Tricep pressdowns-overhead extensions, skull crushers…etc. (basically any tricep isolation exercise)
Lat Pulldowns-Any form of pull/chin up. You’ll need a dip belt to add weight. (You need a pull from above your head)
Overhead Press-Dumbell overhead press, landmine press.
Pendlay Rows-Any horizontal pull to the chest with a wide grip and elbows at 45 degrees. NOT BOR. See FAQ.
Bench-Decline bench, dips (leaning forward) You’ll need a dip belt to add weight
Front Squat/RDL-You have to swap both for a Deadlift and a leg curl. This isn’t an either or kind of substitution.
Front Squat-Paused back squats

Warmups- Before your compound lifts (Squat, Bench, Rows, Front Squat, Incline, Romanian Deadlift and Lat Pulldowns) you should do at least one warmup set. As months roll by you’ll begin adding more weight to the bar and you’ll need to increase the number of warm up sets for some exercises. Ex: For a 135lb squat you might do 1 warm up set of 95lbs, but for a 315lb squat you might warm up with 135, 225 and 275. Warmups are used to get your muscles ready to work; they should not fatigue you. This means if your work set is 50lbs, your warmup set should be down around 25 or 30lbs.

Stretching routines: These aren’t a must, but will assist you in staying healthy and injury free. They don’t take very long at all and are dynamite when it comes to improving and maintaining your mobility. I do them directly before each workout.

[davisj3537]

FAQ

Who should use this program? It was designed for those people who don’t have a great deal of recent, well structured training behind them. It is for anyone with less than 6 months of current, structured and dedicated training. Even if you’ve been working out for a year or two, if you haven’t been intense, consistent, running a decent program and eating correctly you may still make progress on this routine.

How long can I run this program? You run this program until you legitimately stall * on at least 2 of your major lifts while bulking (Bench, Rows, Squat, DL). 4-6 months is a good average for someone bulking. I don’t advise moving onto an intermediate program if you’ve been cutting the whole time on this program.

*Legitimate stall- After deloading (taking 4-7 days completely off), dropping 15% (reset) and working back up you cannot break your plateau.

What do I do if I fail on my sets? If you fail a lift two days in a row then drop the weight 15% for the lift you are failing (reset.) This is a good time to work on form since the weight is a bit lighter again. Form can make or break your lift. You will still be growing with lighter weight. If you don't reduce weight you will likely get slower results.

What program should I run after this one? There are a handful of programs I advise, but a natural progression would be to move to the Upper/Lower routine found here Fierce 5 Comprehensive Thread.

I’m a man/woman and I plan on cutting/bulking. Does that change whether or not I should run this program? For bulking males this program is perfect. Progression(weight increases) needs to be modified for cutting males and bulking females. I would advise running the progression until you stall on bench, squat or RDL. At this point cut the progression in half, meaning increase weight half as much as the program calls for. I advise cutting females and men wanting to lose 30 or more lbs to run All Pros routine.

What about form? At this point you just want to focus on the basics. There is too much information about form to try and absorb all of it at once. The basics of each exercise will keep you from being injured since you won't be lifting huge amounts of weight. As you progress to lifting more and more weight you should devote more and more time to learning the form. A few basics are not flaring elbows during bench and keeping a straight back during squats and DL.
Not familiar with some of these exercises? Look here first http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...8920551&page=1
Look here for others you aren’t familiar with http://www.exrx.net/Lists/Directory.html

Pendlay rows are covered here


I'm having a hard time with pendlays. What am I doing wrong and can I sub it out? Just put in the time to learn the damn lift. You're flexible enough, but you'll need to video yourself and check your form a few times. Keep your back straight like seen in the below photos. At the top of the lift keep your elbows above the bar like seen in the 3rd photo. Notice how my shins are straight up and down. You RDL back into the position and then grab the bar. Notice how far back my hips are. Keep in mind that until you get up to 135lbs the bar will be closer to the ground and require more hip flexibility. Put some mats, blocks, other weights or something under the bar to raise it up to a normal height if needed. If you're gonna sub it then at least notice how in the first photo the arms are perpendicular to the chest. Any sub has to be the same.


What is a superset? A superset is two exercises combined into one workout. These are done back to back. For the abs and curls superset, you would do one set of abs and then immediately do a set of curls. When you finish the curl set then you would immediately start your second set of abs. This saves time and produces a pump.

How long do I wait between sets? Generally I would advise waiting 2-3 minutes between heavy compound sets (Squat, Bench, Row, RDL, Incline, Lat Pulldown.) Isolation workouts should be somewhere between 30-60 seconds (curls, tricep pressdowns, reverse flies.) The supersets should be done back to back.

How much weight should I use? I highly advise to start out lighter than you think you can handle since the progression is very fast. I can’t stress this enough! This program works best with lighter starting weights. I suggest all lifters, regardless of experience, start with 85% of what they think they can lift. You should not be struggling for 4-6 weeks or so.

If this is your very first time working out then I advise you start with 50% of what you think you can handle. On every workout increase the weight by 10-15% instead of the 5-10lbs listed in the original program. There are 3 A and 3 B workouts in every two weeks. Each will be increased by 10-15% each workout so you should be using 85% of what you feel you're capable of by the start of week 3. Remember this is a guess since you're new. Adjust the weights as needed to get to 85% by week 3. Then you will follow normal progression listed in the program. This works great for total beginners because it allows you to get the basics of the exercises down with a safe weight and it also prevent major soreness.


Where did the other versions of the program go? I heard you can only get bigger from high reps sets. I removed the higher rep versions because increasing weight on the high rep versions was too difficult. People stalled much sooner and this probably meant less growth. A lack of progressive resistance (ability to add weight) means a lack of growth. Differences in high reps and low reps are WAY over emphasized especially for beginners. Don’t over think tiny details. See the photo below.


What should I be eating? This depends on your goals. If you are looking to gain muscle you need to be bulking. If you are looking to lose fat, you’ll need to cut. How to do either correctly is covered in excellent detail here https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showt...hp?t=173439001

The myfitnesspal app is an excellent resource for tracking food.

What supplements should I use? Many beginners think that supplements are the “key” to success. This isn’t the case. Supplements help to fill gaps in your diet. If you are unable to meet the minimum requirements for your macros (see the nutrition link above) or micros, then supplements can be beneficial to you, but understand your diet BEFORE jumping into supplements. I advise a multivitamin (helps to fill in micros) to all trainees. Creatine is also something to consider. It is cheap and can help you push through hard sets. The last thing I recommend is protein powder. You don’t need it IF you reach your protein macro through your normal diet. All of these supplements can be acquired through bb.com’s store at a pretty good price. This isn’t a plug; I get all my stuff from bb.com because they have good prices and fast shipping.

Can I run this program 4 days per week? No! One of the most basic rules (IMO) of bodybuilding is not to work out the same muscles 2 days in a row. Only a few people deviate from this rule successfully and they are generally taking illegal substances.

Why can’t I substitute these exercises for others? *You aren’t a special snowflake needing handpicked exercises for your specific circumstances at this point in your lifting career. You need to grow everywhere and this program is designed to do exactly that. This program is meticulously planned to balance your muscle development. If you started changing out these specifically chosen exercises for others it could lead to muscle imbalances. Imbalances lead to postural issues and in many cases injury.

*There is a list of acceptable substitutions in the original post.

Why can’t I add in other exercises? If you knew how to correctly do this then you'd have written your own routine. 99% of the time when I'm asked if something is ok, it's a no from me. It normally messes something else up.

My grip is slipping on RDL/DL. What do I do? Using a mixed grip will fix this issue most of the time. Add chalk or liquid chalk if needed. If you can't hold the bar with mixed grip and chalk then buy lifting STRAPS.

In what order should I do these exercises? You should do them in the order they are written unless gym traffic dictates otherwise. The most taxing exercise is listed first since it will require the most energy to complete.

What about deloading? If you are feeling sluggish and not as strong as you normally are it may be time for a deload. Every 6-8 weeks is a good guess, but everyone is different. This can be done by skipping one workout to give you 4-5 days of consecutive rest. This will keep your central nervous system happy and it will help you push more weight in the long run. A deload should be at least 4 days of rest on this program.

What if I miss a day? Don't skip the workout you missed. Ex: You missed workout B on Friday. You can either do workout B Saturday and jump back into your normal routine Monday or you can start with workout B on Monday. If you chose to take the weekend off and pick things back up Monday then consider it a deload.

Can I do cardio? Sure! I would advise doing cardio on days you aren't going to the gym to lift weights. It further develops a habit of going to the gym. There is no harm in doing cardio on your weight training days if done after your lifting; my advice is only to help reinforce fitness as a habit.

[davisj3537]

Success Stories

Munichveteran ran a slightly modified version of this program (with my approval) due to a spinal injury. He cut for just under 7 months and here are his results.








LSUT10 ran this program when he was coming back from a several year layoff and bulked for 3 months.

week 1 working weights - week 13 working weights
Squats 175-295
Bench 165-225
Pen Row 80-160
Front Squat 135-265
RDL 135-205
Lat Pulldown 90-3x5 chin ups




ProvaP 14 weeks using Fierce 5.

Squat 100 --> 265 lbs
Deadlift 100 --> 265lbs
Incline 65 --> 145 lbs
Pulls-up only body weight+body weight + 45 lbs




Dante828 ran this from April to November in 2015 and gained 25lbs in that time frame

Squat 100lbs >310lbs
Bench 70lbs> >205lbs
Pendlay Rows 60lbs >160lbs
Reverse Flies 10lbs >30lbs
Calve Raises 90lbs >220lbs
Tricep Pressdown 60lbs >130lbs



Front Squat 85lbs >240lbs
Incline Bench 75lbs >190lbs
Romanian Deadlift 80lbs >240lbs
Lat Pulldowns 75lbs >170lbs
Curls 30lbs >95lbs




I debated not putting my own results into this, but I have enough people asking about coming back from a layoff so I thought I'd include it with a few disclaimers. These photos are 11 weeks apart and based around a comeback to lifting after about an 18 month layoff in which I got fat and gross due to injuries and multiple surgeries. I ran the novice version for like 7-8 weeks and then 3-4 weeks of the upper/lower. I switched to the upper/lower because when you're squatting 300+ for reps and deadlifting 400+ for reps the full body version is nearly impossible to make it through. It was still working, but I couldn't finish the workouts.

Additional disclaimers- Comebacks are greatly related to previous lifts IMO. You should expect to come close to, meet or barely exceed your previous PRs in 12 weeks in most cases IF you have the knowledge and self awareness to know when to modify progression, handle deloads and resets. It has a lot to do with myonuclei and other sciency crap related to muscle memory. If you were benching mid 400s like I was then you should expect to look like you bench mid 400s in this time frame to a reasonable degree. I'm still fat as sh*t in the after photos and will lose size and strength when cutting to a more sensible bodyfat %.

I did have to slightly modify the program because my injuries limited me on what I could and could not do as well as what my physical therapist and doctor advised. I lost a few lbs over this time period, but basically just recomped which is normal for a comeback. I've done this half a dozen times for various reasons and this has always been my experience, though admittedly as my knowledge and experience increased my results have become more drastic. I literally do what I preach in terms of programming and supplements. This is what you can expect with exceptional previous PRs, highly refined knowledge of your own body and no drugs.

I added over 200lbs to my squats and 250ish to my deadlift, most of which happened in the first 8 weeks; marginal cost and marginal benefit if you're an economics guy. At the end of this I deadlifted 556, which is notable for a few reasons. It's my best deadlift ever by over 100lbs and I hadn't deadlifted in 4-5 years. This goes to show that you DO NOT have to deadlift to increase your deadlift. Carryover from your other lifts is massive. I only deadlifted for 5 weeks or less, if I remember correctly, during this comeback. This carryover concept applies to all lifts.

[Bluerex]

Means a lot coming from you.

Thanks for the bumps dudes.


Just added in a few more FAQ. I'm at the character limit now so if I have to add anything else I'll have to remove stuff Never saw this coming. lol

you can always edit your post #4, that way you don't have to delete and it will still be near the beginning of the thread. I would try and avoid removing stuff

[Jasonk282]

Means a lot coming from you.

Really? I had no clue you guys like me

[ODoyle99]

This shouldn't be on page 3. Bump!

(Good program here. Repped)

[Jasonk282]

Should totally be a sticky

[Kcabo]

Definitely took some time and effort to write all of this up. Too many beginners hop on bro splits and routines that are completely unnecessary for their stage of development. Hopefully this thread can deter some into making better decisions towards their training.

Nice routine OP, always on R/C with you.. so next time.

[-Lucifer]

Sorry, Davis, I rarely post in this section. The routine looks great. If I ever manage to get some of my non-lifting friends to start lifting religiously, I'll make them run Fierce 5.

[Broscientist88]

Routine looks great, but why is lat pulldown in there in place of chins or Pull ups.. the latter are ofc superior lifts but just curious, is it due to recovery concerns?

[krysix]

Routine looks great, but why is lat pulldown in there in place of chins or Pull ups.. the latter are ofc superior lifts but just curious, is it due to recovery concerns?

Probably because most novices cant lift their own weight in pullups for 3x10. With pulldowns that problem is fixed and you could replace them with pullups once you can lift your own weight.

[Broscientist88]

Probably because most novices cant lift their own weight in pullups for 3x10. With pulldowns that problem is fixed and you could replace them with pullups once you can lift your own weight.

Im considered a novice and do weighted chins 20lb plate for 6-8 reps.. My back is probably my genetic strong point admittedly but I think any novice could manage 3x10, at least with chins. Appreciate the answer though thanks

[-Lucifer]

Im considered a novice and do weighted chins 20lb plate for 6-8 reps.. My back is probably my genetic strong point admittedly but I think any novice could manage 3x10, at least with chins. Appreciate the answer though thanks : )

lol. Novice lifters have trouble doing 10 pushups in a row.

[SuffolkPunch]

It looks pretty good m8, I think you nailed the usual complaints with the traditional routines.

I think that light weight novices could do pullups if they are able to get a 3x8 but OTOH there is nothing wrong with pulldowns. Resistance is resistance and this is an accessory after all.

[Broscientist88]

lol. Novice lifters have trouble doing 10 pushups in a row.

Maybe I am confusing novice with beginner?

[SJamZ]

This looks like it could be fun, I might start a workout log using this and track my progress

I'm sure you'd be interested to see how I get on!

[SJamZ]

Created a log.. I named it fierce 5x5 as opposed to fierce 5.. Oops

[Kcabo]

Maybe I am confusing novice with beginner?

Synonymous.

Novice: a person new to or inexperienced in a field or situation.

Beginner: a person just starting to learn a skill or take part in an activity.

But yeah, not many beginners will be performing pulls/chin-ups for reps IMO. That will be heavily dependent on bodyweight as well, and not all beginners start off skinny/light. Some will be able to sure, but "any" novice as you stated above is definitely not true.

[MichaelCJ]

Solid program. Repped.

edit: On spread, dammit.

[davisj3537]

I'd rape ya but you're on spread.

edit: On spread, dammit.

always on R/C with you.. so next time.

If I'm on spread it means I'm doing something right. lol

Routine looks great, but why is lat pulldown in there in place of chins or Pull ups.. the latter are ofc superior lifts but just curious, is it due to recovery concerns?

Like the other guys mentioned it is to make the program more versatile for beginners of all stages. Hell for all I care you could use the lat pulldown machine and do one set of chins, pullups and lat pulldowns.

Short story-I was training hard to achieve a one armed pullup early last year. In this time frame I was doing sets of 5 with close to 100lbs around my waist. Once I finally got my one armed pullup I started using the lat pulldown machine and realized I could get a great workout with only 135lbs. Sure I was accustomed to lifting A LOT more weight, but my form wasn't very good. I got a better workout from using half the weight on the lat pulldown machine. I think with pullups a novice lifter would tend to sacrifice form as I did to achieve the reps...that and beginners as a group can't do them.

This looks like it could be fun, I might start a workout log using this and track my progress

I'm sure you'd be interested to see how I get on!
Created a log.. I named it fierce 5x5 as opposed to fierce 5.. Oops

Repped. I'm not sure that you can edit the title of your thread, but you can edit the actual post if you like.


Thanks for the all the support dudes.

[TraposaurusRx]

Well this looks like a good/fun routine id enjoy. Im just starting out/getting serious about the gym and lifting so I was looking for a routine to do and this one appeals to me the most.

I think id do the one that alternates 3x5 and 3x10. I'll start a log too

[Jasonk282]

Glad this is getting some traction.

The 4 day set up is pretty fuking solid. 2 strength days and 2 size days....how can you seriously not like that. if I ever get a chance, when work slows up, to start going 4 days again I will totally do that set up. Might not be till May or June though.

[ZenOne]

Good one. It deserves to be sticked,

Definitely agree.

[-Lucifer]

Will add to my blog when I get a chance to get on my PC.

[davisj3537]

Well this looks like a good/fun routine id enjoy. Im just starting out/getting serious about the gym and lifting so I was looking for a routine to do and this one appeals to me the most.

I think id do the one that alternates 3x5 and 3x10. I'll start a log too

Glad to have you aboard bud.

Glad this is getting some traction.

The 4 day set up is pretty fuking solid. 2 strength days and 2 size days....how can you seriously not like that. if I ever get a chance, when work slows up, to start going 4 days again I will totally do that set up. Might not be till May or June though.

Funny enough, that is a rep scheme I ran about a year ago. I absolutely loved it and it was the inspiration to put this program together. Once I typed that, everything else expanded out from it. I did put that under advanced options since I think the progression will be more difficult when switching back and forth between high and low reps. I tried to keep them in order of difficulty as far as original, option 1 & 2.

Will add to my blog when I get a chance to get on my PC.

What, what! I see you lurking in the WP section. lol

[FuzzyMuzy]

Brah, solid set up. Will be doing this in a week or two. Been spinning my wheels for a while

[Cranz]

Seems like a good routine, like really. Not too simple like SS, and not too much volume like ICF.

[gange94]

I have been using Starting strenght for about 2 months but i will definitely change to this it looks alot more fun

[davisj3537]

I've got a lot of reps to hand out. Trying to keep track.

[GymFreak25]

Can the reverse flies be substituted for face pulls?, also can the tricep pressdowns be substituted for skullcrushers and the lat pulldowns for weighted pullups?