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  1. #1
    Member Freyr's Avatar
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    Ketogenic diet risks

    Low-Carbohydrate, High-Protein Diets Increase Risk Of Kidney Stones And May Raise Bone Loss Risk

    DALLAS, TX -- August 1, 2002 -- Popular low-carbohydrate, high-protein diets may result in rapid weight loss, but researchers at UT Southwestern Medical Center at Dallas report that they also pose serious health problems, including an increase in the risk of kidney stones and a possible higher risk of bone loss.

    Significant factors related to the increased kidney stone risk, according to the study, are the acidic content of animal meat and the lack of alkaline foods in the diet. The findings are included in the August issue of The American Journal of Kidney Diseases.

    Researchers report that acid excretion - a marker for the acid load in the blood - increased as much as 90 percent while subjects were on diets that severely restricted carbohydrates. Levels of urinary citrate, which inhibits kidney stones, fell by almost 25 percent in the group during the six-week study.

    "People may lose weight on this diet, but this study shows that this is not a healthy way to lose weight," said Dr. Chia-Ying Wang, a co-author of the study and an assistant professor of internal medicine at UT Southwestern.

    "When you restrict the amount of carbohydrates you can go into a state called ketoacidosis," Wang said. "Our body needs a certain source of energy and a quick source are carbohydrates, which are readily available. When you restrict carbohydrates the body then turns to other sources, one of which is fat. Ketone bodies are formed when the body is forced to burn fat for energy which may result in a state of ketoacidosis."

    Ketoacidosis is a condition resulting from an accumulation of ketone bodies in the blood and increased blood acidity.

    Ten healthy subjects ate a regular diet for two weeks at the start of the study. They followed that with a highly restrictive diet that included some vegetables but no fruits and less than 20 grams of carbohydrates for two weeks. Participants then ate a less-restrictive diet for the final four weeks. During the last five days of each of these stages, the study subjects stayed overnight in UT Southwestern's General Clinical Research Center for testing. Each member of the group also took a daily multivitamin tablet.

    Urinary citrate levels fell from 763 milligrams per day to 449 mg per day during intake of the severely carbohydrate-restricted diet, researchers report in the journal. Subject readings improved to 581 mg per day during intake of the moderately carbohydrate-restricted diet.

    The researchers also report that net acid excretion rose from baseline levels of 61 milliequivalents per day to 116 mEq per day during the severely carbohydrate-restricted diet phase. Levels were 112 mEq per day when the group switched to a moderately carbohydrate-restricted diet. Chronic acid load suppresses the function of osteoblasts, bone-forming cells, and stimulates the function of osteoclasts, a cell associated with bone resorption.

    "This type of diet increases the propensity to develop kidney stones," Wang said. "On the basis of this study alone, there was an increased risk of developing kidney stones and a possible increase in the risk of bone loss. We already know that osteoporosis is going to be a major issue as the population ages and if people are going to eat this kind of diet on a long-term basis, it's unknown what the implications would be for your bones."

    Researchers are now studying the effects of this protein- and fat-heavy diet on the bones and are developing methods to counteract the higher risk of kidney stones.

    "We are not questioning the value of this diet in producing weight loss," said Dr. Kashayer Sakhaee, co-author of the study and a professor of internal medicine "We are investigating a countermeasure so that subjects can benefit from weight loss without experiencing the side effects of increased risk of stones and bone loss." Sakhaee holds the BeautiControl Cosmetics Inc. Professorship in Mineral Metabolism and Osteoporosis.

    Other UT Southwestern researchers who participated in the study include Dr. Charles Pak, senior author of the study and director of the Center for Mineral Metabolism and Clinical Research, and Linda Brinkley, a registered dietitian and research scientist in the Center for Mineral Metabolism and Clinical Research. Dr. Shalini Reddy, formerly of UT Southwestern and presently with the University of Chicago, is the study's lead author.


    SOURCE: University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center at Dallas
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  2. #2
    Registered User GDI's Avatar
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    CKD

    They don't mention anything about a Cyclical Ketogenic Diet. Just curious if the test results would be different on a CKD.

    Personally I have been on a CKD for 2 weeks now (just started my 3rd week) and I have to say that in all honesty I have never felt better. The first week was a little rough but since the second week started I have never felt better!
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    See bros, you thought I was full of hot air when I was warning of kidney stones.

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    Re: Ketogenic diet risks

    This is the same old crap as always, I think the only way to go into Ketoacidosis is when you're diabetic, cuz you can have both ketones and sugar in your blood.

    People are always trying to scare other about keto diets, funny they never try to scare people about carb diets when they make everyone so fat!!!

    Its so stupid! 100,000 years ago, did we have bakeries?? No we had meat and vegetables...

    Originally posted by Freyr
    "When you restrict the amount of carbohydrates you can go into a state called ketoacidosis," Wang said. "Our body needs a certain source of energy and a quick source are carbohydrates, which are readily available. When you restrict carbohydrates the body then turns to other sources, one of which is fat. Ketone bodies are formed when the body is forced to burn fat for energy which may result in a state of ketoacidosis."

    Ketoacidosis is a condition resulting from an accumulation of ketone bodies in the blood and increased blood acidity.
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    Read the study again bro. These were 'healthy' individuals that experienced acidosis, not diabetics.
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    they didn't even say anyone suffered from Ketoacidosis, they just threw it in there to scare people. Besides low urinary citrate levels can be blamed on refined carb diets as well...
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    "The researchers also report that net acid excretion rose from baseline levels of 61 milliequivalents per day to 116 mEq per day during the severely carbohydrate-restricted diet phase. Levels were 112 mEq per day when the group switched to a moderately carbohydrate-restricted diet. Chronic acid load suppresses the function of osteoblasts, bone-forming cells, and stimulates the function of osteoclasts, a cell associated with bone resorption. "

    This is acidosis.
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  8. #8
    Unsaturated speda1's Avatar
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    Some research really needs to be done that focus's on the long term health problems of the keto diet. There really isnt any studies that go past a month or two. This one only does 2 weeks of "Atkins" and 4 weeks of a "less restrictive diet" (whatever that amounts to). Acidosis may become minimal over the time of 3-6 months. Just as cholesterol usually is higher in the beginning stages of a low-carb diet and then drop down after about 5-6 months.
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    Unsaturated speda1's Avatar
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    I don't see how acidosis would just go away if the study was continued. Ketones are highly acidic. Once acidosis has occured it would be unlikely that it would just spontaneously resolve...unless something alkoline was introduced, or the source of the acidity (ketones and excess urea) was reduced.

    It would be interesting to see any study, beyond 2 weeks, where acidosis does not occur in the presence of ketones though.
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  11. #11
    Banned Dorian's Avatar
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    http://www.merck.com/pubs/mmanual/se...pter13/13b.htm
    I find it very interesting when something works we find fault with it. I would do more homework prior to posting such nonsense. I have a million links to show you that Melitis is caused from diabetic insulin being to low. here is one above aLSO you can visit mercks manual . I have studied this for alomg time now and even discussed this situation with many a doctor in various states. Their opinion? CKD diets are very safe. They are the best diet for the obese.
    Now I would study and ask doctors (highly regarded) for their opinions(providing they have studied the diet). You will find that you are just another doomsayer looking to put down something that YOU ARE AFRAID of.
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    Unsaturated speda1's Avatar
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    That's not a study, its the definition and treatment for diabetic ketoacidosis.

    I'm not trying to be argumentative, I just would like to see (and I think others would as well) a study that shows that long term (or at least 2 weeks) ketosis does not also result in acidosis.
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    BTW, your accusations are unfounded. I have studied nutrition myself for many years, am a medical professional and have followed short-term keto type diets myself. I am not afraid of it.
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    Cool The diet has to be done right!!!

    If you are in ketosis after prolonged starvation or because you are a diabetic out of control, it has a different aspect. THEN it indicates the presence of acidosis-and that is a danger signal.

    Too many doctors have come to equate the two situations, although they are as different as night and day, and health and disease.

    There is no acidosis when ketosis occurs as a normal concomitant of this diet.

    I am a bodybuilder. I am a nutritionist with a few hundred clients(maybe 10% I call for a keto). All clients keto or carb based, must have blood work done bi-monthly. I have not seen ONE case of acidosis.

    I am in great hopes of finishing my masters this year in nutrition. My thesis will be on ketogenic diets as applied to bodybuilding.

    Dorian is just venting. He gets tired of having to post the same answers over and over. If you dont like a keto diet-fine! But there is just way too much fact behind to hide the truth. This is the way the body was designed eat.

    I have said this 100's of times....Its not a low carb diet! I consume 80-100g of "smart" carbs a day. 30g coming post work out. I eat alot of veggies and some low GI fruits. Been on this diet for 4 1/2 years straight(breaks for vacations and holidays) No sign of acidosis ever in myself or a client. Last cholestrol 142, triglycerides 81, testosterone 420 ng/dl(never used).

    If anyone wants to read a study, just look up atkins, Eades(my favorite), Lowery(good friend), DiPasquale, How many more do you need.

    I will close with, we are bodybuilders. Through trail and error the diet can do wonders for most. There is more data out there on pro's than con's.
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  15. #15
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    Lightbulb bah..........

    I think anything in excess will kill you...lol even salt. I lost almost 50 pounds on it nad it worked great...i would do it again if i had to.
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  16. #16
    old fart JohnnyDigital's Avatar
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    http://www.mercola.com/2002/aug/24/atkins.htm
    http://www.atkinsdietalert.org/physician.html
    http://www.seasoned.com/issues/200006/c.hf.p1.html
    http://www.americanheart.org/present...tifier=3006728

    I am not here to burn anybody but am looking for an arguement regarding these wbsites that they claim. i am sure it has been posted but i ran a search and came up with nothing also there is arguement about this diet on the board and was woundering if anybody had anything to say http://showtime.infopop.net/1/OpenTo...9601915136&p=1

    about what they say about. i am just looking to clear up the facts.
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  17. #17
    old fart JohnnyDigital's Avatar
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    bump*
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  18. #18
    old fart JohnnyDigital's Avatar
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    does anybody have anything to say?
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  19. #19
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    Originally Posted by chrisg View Post
    Its so stupid! 100,000 years ago, did we have bakeries?? No we had meat and vegetables...
    Did we exist before 100,000 years ago ?
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    Registered User WMLifting's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by kavenbody View Post
    Did we exist before 100,000 years ago ?
    This thread is over 10 years old...
    My Log: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=169516313

    MMDELAD
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    Originally Posted by WMLifting View Post
    This thread is over 10 years old...
    Ok ... so did we exist before 100,010 years ago ?
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    Registered User jaqe's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by kavenbody View Post
    Ok ... so did we exist before 100,010 years ago ?
    Do we bump threads from back then too?
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    Originally Posted by kavenbody View Post
    Ok ... so did we exist before 100,010 years ago ?

    He makes a good point WM, watcha gotta say about that?



    just kidding, this is ridiculous. Threads should be auto-locked after a certain time period.
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    Originally Posted by kavenbody View Post
    Ok ... so did we exist before 100,010 years ago ?
    2 posts, and red as ****. good job, random 11 year old thread bumper.
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    You cant say he didnt use the search function though!
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    You appear to be quite educated in all of these topics. I was about 300lbs a month ago. I'm 6'0 and a man. Now after walking briskly for an hr. a day six days a/wk and eating small calorie meals like several times a day I weigh 280. My natural frame would be considered normal to slightly built with some muscle. I want to lose 100lbs. of fat, then put on about 25-30lbs. of muscle. I don't want to be bodybuilder big, but definitely want to be big with definition. What would you recommend to accomplish this asap. I know it will take time, but I do want to have a muscular look. My body fat % was 48 a month ago. My muscle % was like 29%. Any specific advice would be appreciated. I don't have access to free weights except for dumbells, and weight machines. I have started doing push ups. Exactly how many calories, carbs, protein, and types of workout/walking should I do?? I walk fast enough to get my heart rate elevated in the proper target zone. Thank you sir for any suggestions, NewbieIII
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    Originally Posted by NewbieIII View Post
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    Please check thread dates in the future.
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    Registered User turningthecorne's Avatar
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    I don't understand this anger at resurrecting old threads.
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  29. #29
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    Originally Posted by turningthecorne View Post
    I don't understand this anger at resurrecting old threads.
    Bumping very old threads is generally discouraged because such threads often have outdated information that only serves to mislead.
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