Confused on how and where to begin

[IronMuskle]

Hey guys. New here. Been lurking for a bit so thought hell gonna make my own account and ask my question as I am getting confused with all the info out there. This text might be long so bare with me

Abit about myself. Age 30, weight 229lbs, height 5.6'8, bf probably approx 26%? Got a bit waist/belly with striae marks and sloppy body. So, I desperately need to lower my weight/drop my fat, so I will be working out in a deficit and I don't think it will be a 1 or 2 month endeavour but a longer one before I can actually start thinking about gaining muscle/bulking.
I used to lift alot, specially in my early 20s, then injuries came along, loss of motivation and binging and all went downhill. Now I wanna change that, improve my life, and body. But with all the information out there its confusing knowing what to do. I know from one full body is my best bet, I know upper/lower might also be an option but I wanna build my motivation again and think 3x a week fb might be the best bet.
I know fierce 5 and vbb here so Im checking these out. Other recommendation you guys can give me?
Im gonna be in a deficit, should I focus on compounds on barbells or other exercises like db variants, leg press, etc? Like I tried 7 days of Joe Bennet (Hypertrophy coach) app and his FB is just db bench, chest supported rows, incline bench, pulldowns, leg press, seated curls and rdls but yeah his focus is hypertrophy but now my question.

Is there a difference in hypertrophy/strength from exercise selection? Like bb bench press vs db, or leg press vs squats. Is it pointless I look into that since I will be doing this in a deficit so best focus on compounds like from a routine like F5 and leave specific exercises whenever I go for muscle gaining once I dropped the weight I want to drop or would I benefit from a workout like I said from Joe Bennet above which is not so much focus on BB compounds.

I know, its alot to read, english also isnt my native so not sure if you guys would understand me well or if I formulated the questions/topic well, tldr is: Im kinda a newbie, I wanna work for it but am confused where to start training wise with all the info thats out there, f5, vbb, any other recommendations or a whole different approach like hypertrophycoach Joe Bennet has it set up so bb compounds vs non barbell compounds. FB 3x a week.

Thanks for taking your time in reading this if you did, and for the help.

[TAWS6]

Novice training is simple. F5 is good to go. You really should diet down to around 12 percent. Running through the fierce 5 templates is probably your best bet.

[IronMuskle]

Novice training is simple. F5 is good to go. You really should diet down to around 12 percent. Running through the fierce 5 templates is probably your best bet.

Alright thanks man, I will run f5 then. Will go for the 12% as goal also, seems a good goal to aim for while rebuilding strength and motivation/discipline

You think it is ok if like if its workout B 2x that week, to do 1 workout with DLs and then the second Front squats and rdls? Or only when its 1 workout B? (If its not I will just do it as it is)

[BeginnerGainz]

Alright thanks man, I will run f5 then. Will go for the 12% as goal also, seems a good goal to aim for while rebuilding strength and motivation/discipline

You think it is ok if like if its workout B 2x that week, to do 1 workout with DLs and then the second Front squats and rdls? Or only when its 1 workout B? (If its not I will just do it as it is)

Just do it as is.

There is the option to swap fronts and RDLs for deadlifts (RDLs are better though) and leg curls (which you should be doing anyway)

[IronMuskle]

Just do it as is.

There is the option to swap fronts and RDLs for deadlifts (RDLs are better though) and leg curls (which you should be doing anyway)

Ok will do, I don't understand the second line, so RDLs is better so stick with Fronts and RDLs, but I should be doing leg curls?

[joewattie]

You mentioned injuries. Depending on the injuries (anything lingering?) you might want to consider starting with some of the machines until you know where you stand?

(I got injured some forty years ago. I tried a few comebacks [free weights, compound movements] and got reinjured each time. Last year I tried again, but this time with just the stationary machines. So far so good.)

[BeginnerGainz]

Ok will do, I don't understand the second line, so RDLs is better so stick with Fronts and RDLs, but I should be doing leg curls?

Yep. Do leg curls. Preferably before squats on A days. You’ll thank me later.

If you want feel free to swap front squats with leg presses. Just a better all around quad movement than front squats. You won’t be limited by the core or upper back.

[IronMuskle]

Yep. Do leg curls. Preferably before squats on A days. You’ll thank me later.

If you want feel free to swap front squats with leg presses. Just a better all around quad movement than front squats. You won’t be limited by the core or upper back.

Will do that then my man, thanks for the tips!
For leg curls 3x8? And leg press 3x8 too?

[IronMuskle]

You mentioned injuries. Depending on the injuries (anything lingering?) you might want to consider starting with some of the machines until you know where you stand?

(I got injured some forty years ago. I tried a few comebacks [free weights, compound movements] and got reinjured each time. Last year I tried again, but this time with just the stationary machines. So far so good.)

Bad tennis elbow on right arm, still lingers but mostly due to work. Problem now is my left arm developed a golfers elbow due to shifting most my stuff to the left arm so the right arm isn't doing most the work. Mostly feel it while working, doctor says it will come and go cause tendons take a long time to heal. Trainingswise haven't felt it alot, if I do, I stop doing that exercise (only felt it slightly when picking up the barbell when benching, the movement itself doesnt hurt, but some years ago pain was unbareble)

[xuerebx]

Yep. Do leg curls. Preferably before squats on A days. You’ll thank me later.

Could you elaborate why please?

[BeginnerGainz]

Could you elaborate why please?

1) most people’s hammies suck. Leg curls are the best exercise to make them bigger. It also helps if they get prioritized over squats.

2) https://mountaindogdiet.com/basic/ba...t-squat-later/

Will do that then my man, thanks for the tips!
For leg curls 3x8? And leg press 3x8 too?

For leg curls yes. I stay in the 6-8 range for my top sets myself. So sets of 8 would be ideal.

For leg press, I like to go higher. Quads can take a lot of abuse so it is better to go higher reps, in the 10-12 rep range. Mind you, that doesn’t mean with light weight. It is with weight that makes you sweat, while getting as much knee flexion as safely possible without your butt rising off the seat.

[EliKoehn]

1) most people’s hammies suck. Leg curls are the best exercise to make them bigger. It also helps if they get prioritized over squats.

But don't forget to deadlift also.

[joewattie]

Bad tennis elbow on right arm, still lingers but mostly due to work. Problem now is my left arm developed a golfers elbow due to shifting most my stuff to the left arm so the right arm isn't doing most the work. Mostly feel it while working, doctor says it will come and go cause tendons take a long time to heal. Trainingswise haven't felt it alot, if I do, I stop doing that exercise (only felt it slightly when picking up the barbell when benching, the movement itself doesnt hurt, but some years ago pain was unbareble)

Sounds like you're on top of it so feel free to ignore my comments :-)

I've had multiple injuries on one arm. Did OK-ish and then bam, back on injured reserve. There's a certain element of surprise with free weights that always seemed to bite me so I'm just using the machines now. So far so good. Added plus - I can workout my good arm harder than my bad arm.

[TheShadowMan]

Leg press better than front squats for quads? Not a chance hahaha.

[IronMuskle]

For leg curls yes. I stay in the 6-8 range for my top sets myself. So sets of 8 would be ideal.

For leg press, I like to go higher. Quads can take a lot of abuse so it is better to go higher reps, in the 10-12 rep range. Mind you, that doesn’t mean with light weight. It is with weight that makes you sweat, while getting as much knee flexion as safely possible without your butt rising off the seat.

Alright will do this, is there any exercise you say I could add to workout B to balance it out, by that I mean, workout A 6 exercises, B 5 now instead of 6, any preference or keep it as it is?

[IronMuskle]

Leg press better than front squats for quads? Not a chance hahaha.

He does mention its better than FS cause of core and upper back are left out and you can focus more on the quads. Which might be good for me as I am not sure I can do this well on my current level/weight

[IronMuskle]

Sounds like you're on top of it so feel free to ignore my comments :-)

I've had multiple injuries on one arm. Did OK-ish and then bam, back on injured reserve. There's a certain element of surprise with free weights that always seemed to bite me so I'm just using the machines now. So far so good. Added plus - I can workout my good arm harder than my bad arm.

Yeah man, I get what you mean, my right arm was fried for a long time which decreased motivation in training and all. Now its abit better, not 100% but doable but guess listening to your body is key to help recovery cause I know not doing anything also aint good since training can/might aid with the bloodflow on the injured/healing area. I think if it really does get worse again that depending on which exercises machines will be my go to aswell. But I can't imagine lifting right now without the big compounds, know some people who can't squat no more (doctors orders) and I can't even imagine not squatting again

[MyEgoProblem]

Sub max warmup or 'for a pump' hamstring curls, hammer curls and Pullaparts/facepulls all as a warmup are exceptional! I Do this my self.

I hand many oyt of gym injuries and the extra pump/warmup is great, as is the extra easy to recover vomune.. And many many other reasons that i can't be bothered to get into right now. None are necessary tho


But running f5 novice as is, fs+rdl or dl&hcurl both are equally as effective, period.
will be 110% fine!

You will see zero detriment to your training or muscle growth/balance and you won't be missing out of anything at all. You arent an advanced bodybuilder looking to bring up anything that's actually lagging. Your whole body is lagging right now.

You will only be on it for a few months at most and a novice will get huge amounts of stimulus on every thing from running vanilla f5n. Changing things is essential irrelevant for you irrespective if what you may have read, past working around injuries.

[BeginnerGainz]

Leg press better than front squats for quads? Not a chance hahaha.

A movement where the limiting factor IS NOT the quads is better for quads?

[EliKoehn]

Leg press better than front squats for quads? Not a chance hahaha.

Agreed

[MyEgoProblem]

Front squat has very similar quad recruitment than a leg press.. Both depend on good ankle mobility or neither even best a back squat.

A front squat is in effect, actually worse in due to your back giving out first. This shouldn't even be in question unless you are buimt like a Chinese weight lifter with s fully vertical Torso in the hole

But, a hack squat sled with elevated heels, a sissy squat or leg extension will be far superior to any of the above for JUST quads.

For overall training effect? A different story entirely.
Any free weight squat will hit far more muscle mass, will grow you more all over, and will increase many other performance elements.

[TheShadowMan]

A movement where the limiting factor IS NOT the quads is better for quads?

Another consideration is if front squats are less effective in the realm of bilateral exercises than leg press at quad development, how come there's so much video footage out there of people with skinny legs putting 1000 plus pounds on leg press but not a whole lot using comparable loads in front squat? I haven't seen many with a big front squat that don't also have some good wheels on em too. It's challenging, but a worthy exercise - and actually leads to pretty good posture from spending more time upright. And who doesn't wanna have better spinal health from all the other stuff that is so rough on it?

[TAWS6]

Some people just aren’t built to squat. In some cases the leg press could be a better option for hypertrophy.

[BeginnerGainz]

Another consideration is if front squats are less effective in the realm of bilateral exercises than leg press at quad development, how come there's so much video footage out there of people with skinny legs putting 1000 plus pounds on leg press but not a whole lot using comparable loads in front squat? I haven't seen many with a big front squat that don't also have some good wheels on em too. It's challenging, but a worthy exercise - and actually leads to pretty good posture from spending more time upright. And who doesn't wanna have better spinal health from all the other stuff that is so rough on it?

I’ve seen quite few people try to overload a leg press and move the sled a couple inches. Very few actually get quads-to-chest-without-their-ass-coming-off-the-seat deep. Especially with a significant load.

In F5 you’re already doing a back squat which is infinitely better than a front squat by any measure (no, front squats aren’t “more quad”) and doing RDLs. Plus, a lot of people do not want to squat 3x a week. Crazy, I know…

Some people just aren’t built to squat. In some cases the leg press could be a better option for hypertrophy.

People REALLY don’t like to admit this, but is great for building an overall stronger set of legs, when done correctly and not bastardized like some twinks do. It is still a compound. The quads extend the knee and they are doing the most work but the glutes are still lengthened under load. Hamstrings and calves still for stability (even though most of the stability is built in), you still have to brace the core…

[TAWS6]

I’ve seen quite few people try to overload a leg press and move the sled a couple inches. Very few actually get quads-to-chest-without-their-ass-coming-off-the-seat deep. Especially with a significant load.

In F5 you’re already doing a back squat which is infinitely better than a front squat by any measure (no, front squats aren’t “more quad”) and doing RDLs. Plus, a lot of people do not want to squat 3x a week. Crazy, I know…



People REALLY don’t like to admit this, but is great for building an overall stronger set of legs, when done correctly and not bastardized like some twinks do. It is still a compound. The quads extend the knee and they are doing the most work but the glutes are still lengthened under load. Hamstrings and calves still for stability (even though most of the stability is built in), you still have to brace the core…

I don’t even like to admit it but the truth hurts sometimes.

[IronMuskle]

Learning alot here. Im gonna go with Beginners advice and try it out, cant hurt and while I improve (drop weight) I might sub in FS and work on it but first I gotta work on going consistent to the gym and diet. Once I build my post count I might drop some form vids, since I noticed I cant post links now

I thank everyone for their input, Beginner, TAW, MyEgoProblem, also Joe for the concern and tips about the injury and his experience.

Gonna start monday, might start a log to keep me focussed, receive help/advice if needed.
Its abit clearer now, I was so mixed about barbell/db movements, which is better, which to do, this guy says this, other says that, its confusing. I think now I gotta focus on building my strength, body will follow right as I get stronger? Even in a deficit? (In a less form I guess)

[BeginnerGainz]

Learning alot here. Im gonna go with Beginners advice and try it out, cant hurt and while I improve (drop weight) I might sub in FS and work on it but first I gotta work on going consistent to the gym and diet. Once I build my post count I might drop some form vids, since I noticed I cant post links now

I thank everyone for their input, Beginner, TAW, MyEgoProblem, also Joe for the concern and tips about the injury and his experience.

Gonna start monday, might start a log to keep me focussed, receive help/advice if needed.
Its abit clearer now, I was so mixed about barbell/db movements, which is better, which to do, this guy says this, other says that, its confusing. I think now I gotta focus on building my strength, body will follow right as I get stronger? Even in a deficit? (In a less form I guess)

Word of advice: if anyone says one training tool is “better” than another, or throws in some BS “stabilizer” argument that they cannot quantify, then congratulations! You know you can immediately stop listening to them because they haven’t a clue..

[MyEgoProblem]

The biggest problem with a leg press is this... Not that they don't work or at inherently bad..

- Spending all the time loading up hundreds of kilos of plates, thinking you have enough me still smashing 20 reps out abd having to find more..

Ad most are built to a terrible spec that actually encourages you to load more plates due to deliberately leveragibg them to NEED more plates. To make you feel better/stronger

Old leg press machines.. Using ⅓ of the weight. Doing a better job.. Just sadly don't get used cos "damn i got wesk, i could do 400kg last time, not 200... I'll use the other one"... Go don't get kept in gyms nor are new ones built to that spec.

These are my issues with them.... Ill take a belt squat or hack sled every single time given the choice

Typos. cba to fix at work

[joewattie]

... Old leg press machines.. Using ⅓ of the weight.

<lol> I ran into that. My usual leg press machine was busy so I tried another. It was kind of a giddy buzz having to load on a couple hundred more lbs. to get the same workout in :-)

[coachcalande]

Word of advice: if anyone says one training tool is “better” than another, or throws in some BS “stabilizer” argument that they cannot quantify, then congratulations! You know you can immediately stop listening to them because they haven’t a clue..

Have heard that for years because I bought a smith machine 24 years ago….guess what quiets them down….warming up and repping 315 on free weight bench.

The facts about my own old school smith is this…it’s HARDER than free weights due to the friction of the tube dragging on the support. I get lazy and don’t oil the support/guides and everything feels heavy. There are no bearing on it.

Squats on my smith are much tougher than free weights, more or less resembles a hack squat in how it reduces low back and rear end emphasis, reducing the poundage ….and the drag factors in too. Smith might be 305x4-5 reps while 405 for the same free weights. Just how it is for my machine.