What Am I Doing Wrong?

[greglevine]

I'm male, 23, 5'9, about 150 lbs., and about 20% body fat. I sleep about 9 hours per night. I work out Monday-Friday for 1.5-2 hours, doing a proper bodybuilding program focused on compound movements with progressive overload. I figured out by trail-and-error than my TDEE (maintenance calories) is about 2,850 calories. I eat 2,500 calories 5-6 days per week, with 210g protein, 50g fat, and 330g carbs, and one 'cheat day' where I eat anywhere from 3,500-5,000 calories. My weekly average calorie intake has been more or less 2,500 calories the past few weeks. Over the past few weeks, I've lost a few pounds, but while I've lost 2 lbs. of fat, I've also lost 2 lbs. of muscle. Since I've constantly training hard with proper form and progressing in the gym, and since I eat more than enough protein, I figure it can't be either of those that are causing me to lose muscle along with the fat.

The problem is, I'm already 'small' at just under 150 lbs., and with a shirt on, I just look skinny (with slight muscle tone on my arms, if I'm wearing a t-shirt), yet I do have a not-insignificant amount of muscle, so I'm not a total beginner skinny-fat guy who obviously needs to bulk. Without a shirt, I look a little chubby in my stomach, sides, and lower back. My #1 priority is to get lean, and then after that is when I'll focus again on a proper lean bulk. Do I just need to accept the amount of muscle I'm losing with the fat, or am I doing something wrong? Is there a chance I shouldn't be cutting at all? I've attached pictures that look similar to me. I look a lot more like the photo with just the body in it taking a selfie than the transformation one. Thanks in advance for any advice!

[xsquid99]

First off, there is no device in existence that can tell you that you lost 2 lbs of fat and 2 lbs of muscle, so how exactly did you come to that conclusion? If you're in a small enough deficit that you're only losing 1-2 lbs per week while getting enough protein and maintaining a strength training program its highly unlikely that you lost 2 lbs of muscle.

And secondly, that "transformation" photo is probably 5+ years of consistent workouts with solid programming and diet, and there's an additional chance that he could be "enhanced" as well. So unless you are benching 300lbs, squatting 400lbs, and deadlifting 500lbs, you shouldn't expect to look like someone who probably does hit those numbers.

[greglevine]

First off, there is no device in existence that can tell you that you lost 2 lbs of fat and 2 lbs of muscle, so how exactly did you come to that conclusion? If you're in a small enough deficit that you're only losing 1-2 lbs per week while getting enough protein and maintaining a strength training program its highly unlikely that you lost 2 lbs of muscle.

And secondly, that "transformation" photo is probably 5+ years of consistent workouts with solid programming and diet, and there's an additional chance that he could be "enhanced" as well. So unless you are benching 300lbs, squatting 400lbs, and deadlifting 500lbs, you shouldn't expect to look like someone who probably does hit those numbers.

I get tested every 3 weeks with electrodes (I forgot to mention that). Regarding the photo, I just attached it to show that the 'before' on the left looks similar to how I look currently, but the other photo I attached is actually more accurate.

Your reply was very helpful. Thank you so much!

[faithbrah]

First off, there is no device in existence that can tell you that you lost 2 lbs of fat and 2 lbs of muscle, so how exactly did you come to that conclusion? If you're in a small enough deficit that you're only losing 1-2 lbs per week while getting enough protein and maintaining a strength training program its highly unlikely that you lost 2 lbs of muscle.

And secondly, that "transformation" photo is probably 5+ years of consistent workouts with solid programming and diet, and there's an additional chance that he could be "enhanced" as well. So unless you are benching 300lbs, squatting 400lbs, and deadlifting 500lbs, you shouldn't expect to look like someone who probably does hit those numbers.

those are some juicy traps for a natty

mirin torso though

[SuffolkPunch]

That test is a BIA test and despite how fancy it may seem is very unreliable.

https://weightology.net/the-pitfalls...impedance-bia/

So don't be guided by that too much. Just keep aiming either to drop weight by lowering calories or gain muscle by having a higher calorie intake and progressively overloading in the gym.

[Twu8802]

I think your tdee is too high for your bw of 150lb to be at 2850. Your most likely overestimating how much calories your burning per lift session.

[Rangel54]

I'm male, 23, 5'9, about 150 lbs., and about 20% body fat. I sleep about 9 hours per night. I work out Monday-Friday for 1.5-2 hours, doing a proper bodybuilding program focused on compound movements with progressive overload. I figured out by trail-and-error than my TDEE (maintenance calories) is about 2,850 calories. I eat 2,500 calories 5-6 days per week, with 210g protein, 50g fat, and 330g carbs, and one 'cheat day' where I eat anywhere from 3,500-5,000 calories. My weekly average calorie intake has been more or less 2,500 calories the past few weeks. Over the past few weeks, I've lost a few pounds, but while I've lost 2 lbs. of fat, I've also lost 2 lbs. of muscle. Since I've constantly training hard with proper form and progressing in the gym, and since I eat more than enough protein, I figure it can't be either of those that are causing me to lose muscle along with the fat.

The problem is, I'm already 'small' at just under 150 lbs., and with a shirt on, I just look skinny (with slight muscle tone on my arms, if I'm wearing a t-shirt), yet I do have a not-insignificant amount of muscle, so I'm not a total beginner skinny-fat guy who obviously needs to bulk. Without a shirt, I look a little chubby in my stomach, sides, and lower back. My #1 priority is to get lean, and then after that is when I'll focus again on a proper lean bulk. Do I just need to accept the amount of muscle I'm losing with the fat, or am I doing something wrong? Is there a chance I shouldn't be cutting at all? I've attached pictures that look similar to me. I look a lot more like the photo with just the body in it taking a selfie than the transformation one. Thanks in advance for any advice!

If your #1 priority right now is to get lean, what does your eating schedule look like? I personally would recommend intermittent fasting if you aren't doing so already.

[greglevine]

I think your tdee is too high for your bw of 150lb to be at 2850. Your most likely overestimating how much calories your burning per lift session.

Thank you for your input. I got that number by weighing myself every morning (after using the bathroom) and graphing the trends over time, finding that it stayed flat at roughly 2,850 calories, whereas when I lowered my intake, it began to slope downward. Who knows though - maybe I was gaining weight and losing water, or something else.

[greglevine]

If your #1 priority right now is to get lean, what does your eating schedule look like? I personally would recommend intermittent fasting if you aren't doing so already.

I eat 3 meals per day on the following schedule:
12:00-1:15 P.M. Breakfast = 675 Calories, 55g Protein, 2g Fat, 115g Carbs
2:15-4:20 P.M. Lunch = 675 Calories, 60g Protein, 20g Fat, 65g Carbs
Gym from 4:30-5:30 to 6:00-7:30
Post-Workout Protein Shake = 315 Calories, 40g Protein, 2g Fat, 40g Carbs
Dinner = 810 Calories, 55g Protein, 20g Fat, 110g Carbs

[Tommy W.]

You don't need to train 1.5-2 hours a day. How long have you been on that program and I find it hard to believe you're losing weight at that many weekly calories.

How long have you been tracking your weight

How long have you been at that calorie amount

As others have said those machines aren't accurate. The best gauge of fatloss is still just measuring your waist at the navel and keeping track of that number. If it isn't going down you aren't losing fat however unless you lose at least 5 lbs of fat that measurement wont change much but the machines really can't decipher muscle gain\fatloss with small changes either and they can't determine muscle, only lean mass and that encompasses water, etc.

[Tommy W.]

If your #1 priority right now is to get lean, what does your eating schedule look like? I personally would recommend intermittent fasting if you aren't doing so already.

Weekly calorie intake determines fat loss\gain and not meal timing

[xsquid99]

I get tested every 3 weeks with electrodes (I forgot to mention that).

Like I said, there is no test in existence that can give you an accurate measurement of muscle gain or loss. Stop putting faith into a machine that is basically spitting out a guess based on an imperfect measurement system and algorithm.

[greglevine]

You don't need to train 1.5-2 hours a day. How long have you been on that program and I find it hard to believe you're losing weight at that many weekly calories.

How long have you been tracking your weight

How long have you been at that calorie amount

As others have said those machines aren't accurate. The best gauge of fatloss is still just measuring your waist at the navel and keeping track of that number. If it isn't going down you aren't losing fat however unless you lose at least 5 lbs of fat that measurement wont change much but the machines really can't decipher muscle gain\fatloss with small changes either and they can't determine muscle, only lean mass and that encompasses water, etc.

I've been on it since June, but did CrossFit before that. I've been tracking my weight for about 6 weeks daily and have seen a clear continuous downward trend, which is supposedly good, as long as it's not from muscle loss. I've been at this calorie amount for about 6 weeks as well, although my average calorie intake the past 2-ish weeks has been about 100-200 calories lower due to smaller weekend binges. Right, I don't take what the BIA tests say for stone cold fact, because I know there isn't really a reliable way of measuring body composition accurately, but I did want to make sure I don't switch my whole routine up for no reason if it ends up that the BIA test was wrong in this case. Thank you for your input!

[greglevine]

Like I said, there is no test in existence that can give you an accurate measurement of muscle gain or loss. Stop putting faith into a machine that is basically spitting out a guess based on an imperfect measurement system and algorithm.

Thank you for your input. You're completely right, which is why I don't blindly accept the results of the tests for fact. I did want to see if it was right though, and if so, what I should change in my routine.

[air2fakie]

Thank you for your input. You're completely right, which is why I don't blindly accept the results of the tests for fact. I did want to see if it was right though, and if so, what I should change in my routine.

You might want to provide detail on the program you're doing for 2 hrs, 5 days/week. It doesn't sound suitable for someone in your position, but hard to provide feedback without details.

Also, the weekend cheat days aren't ideal if you're looking to lose weight. Although that approach may not be great @ 5-9, 150.

[greglevine]

You might want to provide detail on the program you're doing for 2 hrs, 5 days/week. It doesn't sound suitable for someone in your position, but hard to provide feedback without details.

Also, the weekend cheat days aren't ideal if you're looking to lose weight. Although that approach may not be great @ 5-9, 150.

It ranges from 1.5 to 2 hours on average, but that's total time spent in the gym, including rest periods. I follow a customized variation of Eric Helms' Intermediate Bodybuilding Program, which is a 5-day upper/lower/push/pull/legs split, and I am consistently progressing in weights week-to-week and cycle-to-cycle for the most part. Isn't it the case that cheat days are okay as long as they don't turn into 'cheat weeks' and as long as weekly calories/macros are still hit? I just want to do whatever gets me lean - if that means cutting, even at 5'9 and 150 lbs., I'll do it - or if I'm doing it wrong and that actually means bulking (despite being about 20% body fat), I'll do it.

[TolerantLactose]

I follow a customized variation of Eric Helms' Intermediate Bodybuilding Program

This generally means it's a butchered version of the original. Tell me I'm wrong.

And why are you on an intermediate program?

[greglevine]

This generally means it's a butchered version of the original. Tell me I'm wrong.

And why are you on an intermediate program?

It's pretty much exactly the same but with added core/abs work. I'm on an intermediate program because I stopped progressing linearly around the same time I hit respectable PRs on the major lifts (385 Deadlift, 285 Squat, 165 Bench).