Hit the wall. Bad.

[estikei]

Hi,

Some of you know my journey. 1,92m tall guy, 34 yrs old. Started at 169 kg 1 1/2 years ago. Now down to 118kg.
Tdee is 2.600 at sedentary. BMR is 2.250.

Exercising since August 2019, on and off keto. Average weight loss is 500g per week, but of course the first few kilos dropped like hell.

Now, I’ve went to extremes this week - one again. I have a tendency to overdo stuff. On keto again, dropped my calories to 1500 through 20/4 fasting. And exercised 2 times... per day, burning around 1.200kcal. Weight lifting in the morning, HIIT in the evening.
Took 5 days for me to hit the wall. This evening felt nauseous like hell, getting headrush/blackout when standing up. Felt like crap. Small sugarbomb ended that.
Feeling so insecure now. Is keto the right diet for me at all, when performing so many hard workouts.... do I really need to fast at all, or can I not just make it simple, eat my BMR on days I’m not working out (never..), including carbs and eat BMR + 400kcal when I do work out - and do a few carbs just before the workout(s)...

I do want to lift weights 4 times per week, I do want to learn how to run... I do want to lose weight at a steady and rather quick pace... but I do not want to burn myself out...

Can you guys help me get my head straight?

[sunsean]

I do want to lift weights 4 times per week, I do want to learn how to run... I do want to lose weight at a steady and rather quick pace... but I do not want to burn myself out...

Can you guys help me get my head straight?

If you don't want to burn yourself out I suggest simplifying things down big time. No need for keto or any other diet unless you need to for digestive/allergy reasons. Just eat a balanced deficit with .8g protein and .4g fat per lb. of bodyweight minimums. Intermittent fasting is ok if it helps you keep to your deficit, but try 16/8 or something less drastic for longterm success. I for one just skip breakfast pretty much and eat normally from lunch on.

I lift weights, run, and stay sane doing it by keeping things simple. I don't eliminate any foods, I just keep an eye on the big stuff, calories and protein for the most part.

[CommitmentRulz]

sunsean is correct. ^^

Poverty level calories and working out like a madman is a recipe for disaster. Avoid extremes instead of living there.

[Tommy W.]

2000 cals a day, sensible volume of Weekly exercise. Good sleep habits.

Done..........

Simple, huh?

[estikei]

Look, I have been almost 170kg. I lost 50kg in 1 1/2 years by busting my ass. You think I have any clue what sensible is ? not only do I weigh a lot less, I look massively different. I’m obsessed with my progress...

The scale is my enemy. Everyday my whole day revolves around what my weight is going to be tomorrow morning. Thinking about simplifying that, too. Take body measurements and weigh myself Monday’s and track religiously for the rest of the week. I need to get that fixation out of my head...

Generally, when looking at 2000kcal already being below my bmr - is it safe to go to this intake at 5-6 workouts per week?

Sunsean, what caloric deficit do you go for when you cut? Vs BMR or vs TDEE that is?

[Tommy W.]

Look, I have been almost 170kg. I lost 50kg in 1 1/2 years by busting my ass. You think I have any clue what sensible is ? not only do I weigh a lot less, I look massively different. I’m obsessed with my progress...

The scale is my enemy. Everyday my whole day revolves around what my weight is going to be tomorrow morning. Thinking about simplifying that, too. Take body measurements and weigh myself Monday’s and track religiously for the rest of the week. I need to get that fixation out of my head...

Generally, when looking at 2000kcal already being below my bmr - is it safe to go to this intake at 5-6 workouts per week?

Sunsean, what caloric deficit do you go for when you cut? Vs BMR or vs TDEE that is?

quit obsessing on the scale. You’re way below 2000 and ****in complaining about it. What exactly do you want to hear? Get sensible and move on. Forget about BMR you don’t know what is is anyway. Don’t over complicate this stuff

[sunsean]

Look, I have been almost 170kg. I lost 50kg in 1 1/2 years by busting my ass. You think I have any clue what sensible is ? not only do I weigh a lot less, I look massively different. I’m obsessed with my progress...

The scale is my enemy. Everyday my whole day revolves around what my weight is going to be tomorrow morning. Thinking about simplifying that, too. Take body measurements and weigh myself Monday’s and track religiously for the rest of the week. I need to get that fixation out of my head...

Generally, when looking at 2000kcal already being below my bmr - is it safe to go to this intake at 5-6 workouts per week?

Sunsean, what caloric deficit do you go for when you cut? Vs BMR or vs TDEE that is?

Yeah...I don't really think about my BMR at all, though I do have a rough idea of my TDEE. When I cut I usually start around 500 below and gradually drop down from there. So maybe 2200 for a few weeks, then down to 2000, then down to 1800. But I'm not a robot and don't eat the exact same thing every day. Some days might be 1600 some days might be 2400. When cutting my only real rule is don't go above my TDEE, I don't mind losing slower as long as I am below that ceiling I know I am moving in the right direction.

In other words, I'm not crazy obsessive over it, which I think is the take away here.

[estikei]

Indeed, that's the takeaway.
I would like to stay clear of anything below my BMR, just to try that once. So, i'll be looking at somewhere around 2.200kcal and adjust up depending on my workout volume during that day. My TDEE typically is 2.600kcal without any workout (sedentary). Weight training adds 400kcal, running adds 600-800kcal.

[sunsean]

Indeed, that's the takeaway.
I would like to stay clear of anything below my BMR, just to try that once. So, i'll be looking at somewhere around 2.200kcal and adjust up depending on my workout volume during that day. My TDEE typically is 2.600kcal without any workout (sedentary). Weight training adds 400kcal, running adds 600-800kcal.

The more active you are, the more you can eat. So if you're training heavy, I would definitely up the calories a bit to 2200, see how that goes for a few weeks.

Keep in mind that for a good body you don't want to only lose fat but maintain muscle as well. Having your calories too low and not having proper recovery time can impact that.

[estikei]

When my "non-training" TDEE is around 2.600 kcal i would stick to 2.200 kcal as well, to not overcomplicate. There are virtually zero days without training for me anyway. Maybe when i'm traveling.
I'm just thinking about what is a healthy deficit vs a heavy training day. Should i reap the benefits of adding 800kcal of training activity and still only eating 2.200kcal -maximizing the deficit -, or will that burn me out.. The experience this week i think was the lesson that i needed to learn the hard way. Excessive training and excessive calorie restriction don't go along, and the more excessive one or the other is done, the quicker i burn out.
Sort of, I'm looking for the "healthy deficit" that moves with my TDEE.

And yes, i do want to put maximum emphasis on strength training as i of course lost a lot of weight and need the muscle to back up the skin. Made some progress too in the last 6 months. Especially areas where i don't have a lot of fat (shoulders, legs, arms) i can see improvements. My chest is what worries me. Man boobs all the way - but then again, i still am at 33% body fat.

So, again, i want it all. Quick weight loss vs muscle growth. I feel that all i need to do is strike out the "quick" from weight loss, go with a healthy deficit that sustains my heavy and frequent workout routine.

[sunsean]

When my "non-training" TDEE is around 2.600 kcal i would stick to 2.200 kcal as well, to not overcomplicate. There are virtually zero days without training for me anyway. Maybe when i'm traveling.
I'm just thinking about what is a healthy deficit vs a heavy training day. Should i reap the benefits of adding 800kcal of training activity and still only eating 2.200kcal, or will that burn me out..
Sort of, I'm looking for the "healthy deficit" that moves with my TDEE.

Technically yeah you can eat a bit more on days you are more active, but tracking that and trying to be accurate can get very time consuming and not worth the effort IMO. There's nothing wrong with eating the same calories every day, on rest days and training days, as long as it's reasonable and not too low.

I say pick a sensible number like 2200 and just stay there for a few weeks. See how your weight moves, how your energy levels are, training sessions etc...then adjust accordingly.

It doesn't have to be complicated, but it does require patience.

[CommitmentRulz]

OP, it's very difficult to accurately know how many calories you are burning during a workout. For instance, you quote 600 to 800 calories when you run. Are you running 6 miles? If not, 800 is likely too high...

[estikei]

OP, it's very difficult to accurately know how many calories you are burning during a workout. For instance, you quote 600 to 800 calories when you run. Are you running 6 miles? If not, 800 is likely too high...

My runs around 5km with avg 165BPM average out at 600kcal roundabout. That's 38 Mins (I'm dead slow)
Cardio on Elliptical, 45 mins, the same - roundabout 600kcal.

Does that seem way off ?

[CommitmentRulz]

My runs around 5km with avg 165BPM average out at 600kcal roundabout. That's 38 Mins (I'm dead slow)
Cardio on Elliptical, 45 mins, the same - roundabout 600kcal.

Does that seem way off ?

Hard to say, because it's hard to get a real number. Personally, (at 215 pounds) I use (for myself) 100 calories a mile for a walk and 125 calories for a jog (per mile). But I DO NOT eat back exercise calories. Those numbers are just "in my head" to guess calorie burn.

[sunsean]

Hard to say, because it's hard to get a real number. Personally, (at 215 pounds) I use (for myself) 100 calories a mile for a walk and 125 calories for a jog (per mile). But I DO NOT eat back exercise calories. Those numbers are just "in my head" to guess calorie burn.

I get similar results for my runs and I only weigh 170lb, about 125 calories/mile. I think probably because though I weigh less, I'm working just as hard with the muscle I have to move my bodyweight.

OP as CommitmentRulz said above ^^^ there's no way to know for sure, but I'd wager 600 calories for 3 miles (5k) is a generous estimate.

[estikei]

Hi,

been eating at 2.200kcal last 2 days. Put in Carbs before my training and felt a TON better. Probably will gain weight now after my body bounces back from a while of loooow calories, but excited to be able to put in more heavy lifts.