Help Needed. I can't shake this...

[dbb81]

Hello All I think I've hit a plateau that I can't seem to get over. I'm a 39 year male, 5'9'' and hover around 150 lbs. I exercise daily. I mix between strength training and Cardio for the past 1-2 years. Currently, I started my second month of P90X with the gyms closed. I eat healthy at least 5-6 days a week. Here's a sample of my diet with all exercise in the morning before breakfast. Cardio is always fasted.

Whole wheat bread with peanut butter & Banana on strength training days
Exercise: Cardio or strength 45-60 minutes with heart rate monitor. Burn an average of 400-500 per hour
Breakfast: 1.5 servings of oatmeal and 50 grams of protein shake
snack: 25 gram protein shake
lunch: grilled chicken and spinach salad with lite or fat free dressing on cardio days...1.5 servings of whole wheat pasta with 99% lean ground turkey with sauce on strength days
Snack: 25 gram protein shake
Dinner: grilled chicken/steak with veggie...i.e. asparagus, brussel sprouts, green beans etc...or sauteed onions/peppers with chopped chicken breast with buffalo sauce

Only supplements would be BCAA's before morning workout. Weekends are tough. I may have a cheat meal or two but nothing drastic. Frozen pizza with the wife or a fattier steak (chicken thighs with skin) with a veggie. Again, nothing serious

Here's my issue, I can't seem to drop the last bit of belly fat around my waist. I want those abs to show. I've been at this for a few years now. Overall, I'm down around 30+ lbs which is great. But, over the past few months, I can't see to shake this last but of body fat. I'm not looking to get jacked. Just get fit. I've been hovering between 145-155 lbs for the past 2 months. I take pictures monthly and they all look the same. I don't see much visual change month over month.

What am I doing wrong?

[induced_drag]

Hello All I think I've hit a plateau that I can't seem to get over. I'm a 39 year male, 5'9'' and hover around 150 lbs. I exercise daily. I mix between strength training and Cardio for the past 1-2 years. Currently, I started my second month of P90X with the gyms closed. I eat healthy at least 5-6 days a week. Here's a sample of my diet with all exercise in the morning before breakfast. Cardio is always fasted.

Whole wheat bread with peanut butter & Banana on strength training days
Exercise: Cardio or strength 45-60 minutes with heart rate monitor. Burn an average of 400-500 per hour
Breakfast: 1.5 servings of oatmeal and 50 grams of protein shake
snack: 25 gram protein shake
lunch: grilled chicken and spinach salad with lite or fat free dressing on cardio days...1.5 servings of whole wheat pasta with 99% lean ground turkey with sauce on strength days
Snack: 25 gram protein shake
Dinner: grilled chicken/steak with veggie...i.e. asparagus, brussel sprouts, green beans etc...or sauteed onions/peppers with chopped chicken breast with buffalo sauce

Only supplements would be BCAA's before morning workout. Weekends are tough. I may have a cheat meal or two but nothing drastic. Frozen pizza with the wife or a fattier steak (chicken thighs with skin) with a veggie. Again, nothing serious

Here's my issue, I can't seem to drop the last bit of belly fat around my waist. I want those abs to show. I've been at this for a few years now. Overall, I'm down around 30+ lbs which is great. But, over the past few months, I can't see to shake this last but of body fat. I'm not looking to get jacked. Just get fit. I've been hovering between 145-155 lbs for the past 2 months. I take pictures monthly and they all look the same. I don't see much visual change month over month.

What am I doing wrong?

Are you a woman? 5'9 and 150lbs and not showing abs in a man (and has been training for two years) does not add up.....

[dbb81]

Are you a woman? 5'9 and 150lbs and not showing abs in a man (and has been training for two years) does not add up.....

See the attached pics...

[OldFartTom]

If you average it out over the week, what are your current daily calories?

When you say you're doing "strength training", what do You meant by strength training (honest question, it means different things to different people)

[dbb81]

With the gyms closed I’m now doing P90X. Prior to this I would do either upper or lower splits or chest/back, shoulders/arms, etc. I stay within the 8-10 range.

As for calories, I truth I really bad at fracking this. I eat lean protein and whole veggies. I don’t eat many carbs and if I do it’s oatmeal, brown rice or whole wheat pasta

If I were to guess, I’m around 1500 calories on cardio days and 2000 on lifting days

[OldFartTom]

Just for fun, not taking the numbers too seriously, just to get an idea

https://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/macronutcal.htm

Just putting in: Age 35, 150lbs, 5' 9", exercises but sedentary job, "maintenance"
1766 calories a day to stay the same

Is that what you average now? (1500+2000)/2 = 1750

[blue9steel]

Overall, I'm down around 30+ lbs which is great.

Congrats on losing 30lbs, that's a solid start

Your pictures and the way you posted your diet info suggest you haven't quite grasped how all of this works yet.

1) You're no where near lean enough
2) Overall you have a very low level of muscle development

Those two things are why you aren't showing any abs.

Post the last week's worth of:

1) Calories
2) Macros
3) Weigh ins
4) Workouts

With that information in hand we might be able to start helping you. If you don't have that information then that is the problem. I strongly recommend you read the nutrition and workout program stickies for a good intro. The O35 section has lots of knowledgeable people if you listen to their advice.

[dbb81]

First, thank you all for weighing in...pun intended!

I strongly feel this is diet related. I never blame the exercise or workout program. I downloaded My Fitness Pal and I’ve committed to tracking for a whole week and will report back here. Here’s my calorie and macro intake for today

Calories: 2226
Exercise : 374 burned via heart rate monitor (P90X Legs & Back)
43% Carbs
22% Fat
35% protein

[blue9steel]

First, thank you all for weighing in...pun intended!

I strongly feel this is diet related. I never blame the exercise or workout program.

Since you don't know the problem I'd suggest this is jumping to conclusions. Frankly my guess is that it's both, but we need the data before we can determine that.

I downloaded My Fitness Pal and I’ve committed to tracking for a whole week and will report back here. Here’s my calorie and macro intake for today

Calories: 2226
Exercise : 374 burned via heart rate monitor (P90X Legs & Back)
43% Carbs
22% Fat
35% protein

1) If you weren't tracking before that's a huge red flag.
2) Heart rate monitors and other calorie burn calculators are both A) optimistic and B) Report gross rather than net burn. As a very rough approximation you can divide by about 1.4 to get a more accurate guesstimate. (Many will argue you shouldn't even bother with this and not track burn at all, I'll leave it to them to explain that approach)
3) Macro percentages are really old school and pretty inaccurate. The right way to do this is to report in grams. For this one case here are the converted numbers:

2226 Cal, 195g Pro, 55g Fat, 240g Carb (Theoretically burned 264 Cal)
For a 150lb, 5'9", 39yr old male your targets are something like: 2215 Cal, 110g Pro, 60g Fat, 31g Fiber

I used some rounding and made some minor assumptions so others might come up with slightly different numbers but that's a rough estimate. That's not nearly enough info, but just using that you'd expect a weekly deficit of 1771, however since you mentioned you only eat healthy 5-6 days a week and engage in cheat meals it's pretty likely that you're eating at maintenance, which would be why you're not losing scale weight. In addition I'd say you're eating too much protein and not enough fat.

[OldFartTom]

.... Here’s my calorie and macro intake for today... Calories: 2226...

This is more than maintenance (which is going to be about 1,700 or 1,800 for you, see previous post), so don't expect to lose fat eating at that level

[zzfh]

What oldfarttom sed

[shawn2020]

Jeremy Ethier has a really great youtube channel about how to lose the last bit of belly fat.
Literally the best weight loss videos ive ever seen. Sorry im too new here to be allowed to link specific ones but look around his channel

[induced_drag]

Jeremy Ethier has a really great youtube channel about how to lose the last bit of belly fat.
Literally the best weight loss videos ive ever seen. Sorry im too new here to be allowed to link specific ones but look around his channel

So f'n stupid. Guy looks like he is a teenage Abercrombie and Fitch model. I had to look at his stuff, and he is just another person trying to act like an expert and I could go to any highschool and pic 15 kids that look just like him by nature.


Plain stupid. Focusing on the micro when the macro has far more effect. VERY FEW people need to 'lose that last bit' of fat. Most need to lose weight in general. People who are disciplined and smart enough to build a quality physique AND then diet down, dont need educated on losing that last little bit.

[shawn2020]

So f'n stupid. Guy looks like he is a teenage Abercrombie and Fitch model. I had to look at his stuff, and he is just another person trying to act like an expert and I could go to any highschool and pic 15 kids that look just like him by nature.


Plain stupid. Focusing on the micro when the macro has far more effect. VERY FEW people need to 'lose that last bit' of fat. Most need to lose weight in general. People who are disciplined and smart enough to build a quality physique AND then diet down, dont need educated on losing that last little bit.

Is there a way to get notifications when someone quotes me ? Or do i have to subscribe to the whole thread.
Did you watch any of his videos or just focus on his physique? Because he quotes a ton of scientific studies, etc he isn't just talking out of his ass. his videos are very well researched and gave me information and ideas i hadn't heard before.

[induced_drag]

Is there a way to get notifications when someone quotes me ? Or do i have to subscribe to the whole thread.
Did you watch any of his videos or just focus on his physique? Because he quotes a ton of scientific studies, etc he isn't just talking out of his ass. his videos are very well researched and gave me information and ideas i hadn't heard before.

Yes I did, unfortunately..... Just a pre-pubescent looking (post-pubescent skinny guy) telling everyone how to be fit with mostly garbage info. While there may be elements of truth to what he say, in real practice it makes almost no difference. Macro>micro..... Focusing on the smallest insignificant things while ignoring the big picture is not the answer. And in the "big" picture, most people are not trying to go from 7-5% bf. (even that dude is not fit enough to warrant what he is advising).

KISS...... Over complicating diet, does not make it better.

[shawn2020]

Yes I did, unfortunately..... Just a pre-pubescent looking (post-pubescent skinny guy) telling everyone how to be fit with mostly garbage info. While there may be elements of truth to what he say, in real practice it makes almost no difference. Macro>micro..... Focusing on the smallest insignificant things while ignoring the big picture is not the answer. And in the "big" picture, most people are not trying to go from 7-5% bf. (even that dude is not fit enough to warrant what he is advising).

KISS...... Over complicating diet, does not make it better.

Well damn its not like he was telling people to eat ginger and cinnamon lol.
But I'm in terrible shape and just getting started. Do you have any channel recommendations for better information at reducing the last bit of belly fat ? Or your advice is just diet and exercise ?

[induced_drag]

Well damn its not like he was telling people to eat ginger and cinnamon lol.
But I'm in terrible shape and just getting started. Do you have any channel recommendations for better information at reducing the last bit of belly fat ? Or your advice is just diet and exercise ?

You are in a place with some very knowledgeable people and many willing to share. It is also filled with many people who dont really know anything and repeat all kinds of info. As an example, I dont follow most of what the guy you posted advises. In fact, I am opposed to much of it. This is my 'normal' level of condition. No cardio, and eating plenty of 'processed' foods, white flour (pizza is a food group in itself!) and disregarding meal timing as he states.


Focus on macros and calories. FORGET about all the other BS. While there may be very tiny differences in thermic value of foods and other things, it really is not worth the effort to track. By all means eat for good health.....but for anything really considering, fat loss is just about eating less calls than you burn. By all means make healthy food choices for the majority of your foods and eat with good health in mind, but for fat loss....cals in cals out is all you need to consider.



There is a fantastic repository of info and all you need is located here:

Read this link
https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showt...hp?t=136691851

[shawn2020]

You are in a place with some very knowledgeable people and many willing to share. It is also filled with many people who dont really know anything and repeat all kinds of info. As an example, I dont follow most of what the guy you posted advises. In fact, I am opposed to much of it. This is my 'normal' level of condition. No cardio, and eating plenty of 'processed' foods, white flour (pizza is a food group in itself!) and disregarding meal timing as he states.


Focus on macros and calories. FORGET about all the other BS. While there may be very tiny differences in thermic value of foods and other things, it really is not worth the effort to track. By all means eat for good health.....but for anything really considering, fat loss is just about eating less calls than you burn. By all means make healthy food choices for the majority of your foods and eat with good health in mind, but for fat loss....cals in cals out is all you need to consider.

I went through my youtube history of jeremy and this is the one i really liked for dieting "How To Lose MORE Fat And KEEP/BUILD Muscle (3 WORST Dieting Mistakes You Need To Avoid)"

Youre obviously extremely athletic but i wonder if youve ever been fat and just tried to lose weight before through diet alone?
I have and there are plateaus that you hit. it doesnt seem so simple as CICO because you will stall out and stay the same weight for weeks even though nothing in your diet has changed.

Jeremy talks about how to push through those plateus and it was quite interesting to me.
I'm personally following the training and advice of Athlean right now

[blue9steel]

Youre obviously extremely athletic but i wonder if youve ever been fat and just tried to lose weight before through diet alone?
I have and there are plateaus that you hit. it doesnt seem so simple as CICO because you will stall out and stay the same weight for weeks even though nothing in your diet has changed.

1) Losing weight without exercise is not optimal because you tend to lose large amounts of lean body mass which decreases your BMR, making it harder to continue or even maintain. I should know, I tried it a bunch of times. That phenomenon is what often causes people to end up heavier after a relapse.
2) Your BMR drops for every pound you lose, if you don't adjust for that it can look like a plateau
3) Regardless of #1 and #2, controlling scale weight (not body fat) is solely about calories. There are no fat, dead, starvation victims.

Stop confusing losing weight and losing fat, they're correlated but not the same thing.

[shawn2020]

Sure if you want to starve and eat nothing. that is ****.

Youre ignoring the fact that people diet on 1200 calories and hit plateaus. Its a thing that happens.

[ElrondHubbard]

Well damn its not like he was telling people to eat ginger and cinnamon lol.
But I'm in terrible shape and just getting started. Do you have any channel recommendations for better information at reducing the last bit of belly fat ? Or your advice is just diet and exercise ?

While I wouldn't have said it quite so bluntly, there is no "last bit of belly fat". There's total levels of body fat, and total amount of muscle mass. If you're at anything less than an elite level, that's ALL you need to worry about.

Also, at your level, and the OP's level of fitness, I wouldn't even recommend any YouTube channels. (Other than maybe Professor Leonard's math tutorials.) Take a look at the stickies here in the Workout Programs and the Nutrition sections, and study the basics of nutrition and the novice weight training programs thatg are offered. That's literally all you need to get started.

When you start worrying, as a beginner, about "that last bit" of anything, you've already gone off track, and you're in the swamps. Back up, get back to basics, and concentrate on what you need to do NOW, to get started. Not on what you may never need to worry about at all.

[ElrondHubbard]

Sure if you want to starve and eat nothing. that is ****.

Youre ignoring the fact that people diet on 1200 calories and hit plateaus. Its a thing that happens.

You didn't read the post. Nobody is recommending you go to 1200 calories. Blue9steel advised you to combine diet with exercise. That will help you get past plateaus. Why are you even trying to think about losing weight through diet alone? Obviously you can, but it's an all around bad idea. You're on a Bodybuilding forum. We lift weights. We diet. It's what we do. There are lots of people here who have been fat at one time and are now jacked. The information is here to accomplish that.

Listen, don't argue, until you know what you're talking about. So far, you don't. Stick with it, learn, make mistakes and have successes and failures, learn some more, and eventually you WILL know enough to advise others.

[induced_drag]

Youre obviously extremely athletic but i wonder if youve ever been fat and just tried to lose weight before through diet alone?

Jeremy talks about how to push through those plateus and it was quite interesting to me.
I'm personally following the training and advice of Athlean right now

I dont now why people see anyone and think being in shape is 'easy'. Sure I was always a good athlete in you youth. In my adult life, I became a good x-athlete who got good at gaining weight after not exercising for 10 years.

I dont have pics of my 'worst' shape. But when I really started to get serious 10 years ago about getting back, the first thing I had to do was drop about 30lbs of fat. I am not sure is that qualifies as never having to lose weight. There is about 25 lbs difference in those pics.






I was lucky to have done so much working out when I was younger with a good 7+ years of training heavy in my younger days. Gaining muscle back was 'easy' for me. Compared to others, it is fair to say that I have an above-average training response. But I was NEVER a lean person. But I pretty much was fanatical about it and ate slept and breathed working out, and diet for about 5 years to get back. This was my first year back after dropping 30+lbs of fat.





The responses you are getting in this thread are what you need to listen to. BS YouTubers need something exciting to talk about. Truth is, there is no big secret to fat loss. Eat less than what you burn.

Here is what you need to know.

Eat 1g of protein/lb or body weight (some say .8 I have always done 1g)
Eat .35 g Fat/lb body weight MINIMUM.
Make of the rest of your diet with carbs or you choice. I dont care if they are pop tarts, or brown rice. (it wont make a difference).

Eat whenever you want, and in whatever combination of foods you want. Changing any of those will make no measurable difference.


Set you base calls for a calculated deficit 11cals-12 cals/lb of bodyweight is a good start. Track (properly...not even going into a lesson here) and adjust after noting weekly weight loss. (ignore first 12 days since most will have an initial water shift of 8-10lbs). If you have 20+lbs of fat to lose, you can go as high as 750cal deficit. As you get down to 15-10lbs , drop to 500 cal. When you get abs, drop to 250-300 cals. When you have veins in your abs....careful if you diet too hard, you will shed muscle like crazy if you get too aggressive. (but most people never get past step 1 )


Or......just ignore all of us and watch the vids of people who's only job is to entertain you with "interesting" content. Not necessarily the factual and practical truth. Not very exciting is it?

1) Losing weight without exercise is not optimal because you tend to lose large amounts of lean body mass which decreases your BMR, making it harder to continue or even maintain. I should know, I tried it a bunch of times. That phenomenon is what often causes people to end up heavier after a relapse.
2) Your BMR drops for every pound you lose, if you don't adjust for that it can look like a plateau
3) Regardless of #1 and #2, controlling scale weight (not body fat) is solely about calories. There are no fat, dead, starvation victims.

Stop confusing losing weight and losing fat, they're correlated but not the same thing.

You make waaaay too much sense my friend!

While I wouldn't have said it quite so bluntly, there is no "last bit of belly fat". There's total levels of body fat, and total amount of muscle mass. If you're at anything less than an elite level, that's ALL you need to worry about.

Also, at your level, and the OP's level of fitness, I wouldn't even recommend any YouTube channels. (Other than maybe Professor Leonard's math tutorials.) Take a look at the stickies here in the Workout Programs and the Nutrition sections, and study the basics of nutrition and the novice weight training programs thatg are offered. That's literally all you need to get started.

When you start worrying, as a beginner, about "that last bit" of anything, you've already gone off track, and you're in the swamps. Back up, get back to basics, and concentrate on what you need to do NOW, to get started. Not on what you may never need to worry about at all.

Always awesome to have others who 'get it' jump in. Advice comes in all shapes and sizes. He heard mine and assumes I have always been in shape.....yet others of all ages and walks come in with the same knowledge and if he ignores it now, he deserves to fail.

I miss Ironwill. He was always there to help others....but in the end, there is always the .....

"Good luck with your fitness goals of 2020"

[shawn2020]

You didn't read the post. Nobody is recommending you go to 1200 calories. Blue9steel advised you to combine diet with exercise. That will help you get past plateaus. Why are you even trying to think about losing weight through diet alone? Obviously you can, but it's an all around bad idea. You're on a Bodybuilding forum. We lift weights. We diet. It's what we do. There are lots of people here who have been fat at one time and are now jacked. The information is here to accomplish that.

Listen, don't argue, until you know what you're talking about. So far, you don't. Stick with it, learn, make mistakes and have successes and failures, learn some more, and eventually you WILL know enough to advise others.

Well I do actually know what Im talking about when it comes to solo dieting.. hell in feb & march i lost 25 lbs of fat.
but thats where my experience ends and i appreciate all the info here

I dont now why people see anyone and think being in shape is 'easy'. Sure I was always a good athlete in you youth. In my adult life, I became a good x-athlete who got good at gaining weight after not exercising for 10 years.

I dont have pics of my 'worst' shape. But when I really started to get serious 10 years ago about getting back, the first thing I had to do was drop about 30lbs of fat. I am not sure is that qualifies as never having to lose weight. There is about 25 lbs difference in those pics.


I was lucky to have done so much working out when I was younger with a good 7+ years of training heavy in my younger days. Gaining muscle back was 'easy' for me. Compared to others, it is fair to say that I have an above-average training response. But I was NEVER a lean person. But I pretty much was fanatical about it and ate slept and breathed working out, and diet for about 5 years to get back. This was my first year back after dropping 30+lbs of fat.



The responses you are getting in this thread are what you need to listen to. BS YouTubers need something exciting to talk about. Truth is, there is no big secret to fat loss. Eat less than what you burn.

Here is what you need to know.

Eat 1g of protein/lb or body weight (some say .8 I have always done 1g)
Eat .35 g Fat/lb body weight MINIMUM.
Make of the rest of your diet with carbs or you choice. I dont care if they are pop tarts, or brown rice. (it wont make a difference).

Eat whenever you want, and in whatever combination of foods you want. Changing any of those will make no measurable difference.


Set you base calls for a calculated deficit 11cals-12 cals/lb of bodyweight is a good start. Track (properly...not even going into a lesson here) and adjust after noting weekly weight loss. (ignore first 12 days since most will have an initial water shift of 8-10lbs). If you have 20+lbs of fat to lose, you can go as high as 750cal deficit. As you get down to 15-10lbs , drop to 500 cal. When you get abs, drop to 250-300 cals. When you have veins in your abs....careful if you diet too hard, you will shed muscle like crazy if you get too aggressive. (but most people never get past step 1 )


Or......just ignore all of us and watch the vids of people who's only job is to entertain you with "interesting" content. Not necessarily the factual and practical truth. Not very exciting is it?






You make waaaay too much sense my friend!




Always awesome to have others who 'get it' jump in. Advice comes in all shapes and sizes. He heard mine and assumes I have always been in shape.....yet others of all ages and walks come in with the same knowledge and if he ignores it now, he deserves to fail.

I miss Ironwill. He was always there to help others....but in the end, there is always the .....

"Good luck with your fitness goals of 2020"

I was making no assumptions it was a real question without an assumed answer BTW.

and damn that is a nice cut you did.
youre right about me on one count though - putting all my faith in the athlean x channel on youtube. for at least 45 days.

[TryingBB]

Hello All I think I've hit a plateau that I can't seem to get over. I'm a 39 year male, 5'9'' and hover around 150 lbs. I exercise daily. I mix between strength training and Cardio for the past 1-2 years. Currently, I started my second month of P90X with the gyms closed. I eat healthy at least 5-6 days a week. Here's a sample of my diet with all exercise in the morning before breakfast. Cardio is always fasted.

Whole wheat bread with peanut butter & Banana on strength training days
Exercise: Cardio or strength 45-60 minutes with heart rate monitor. Burn an average of 400-500 per hour
Breakfast: 1.5 servings of oatmeal and 50 grams of protein shake
snack: 25 gram protein shake
lunch: grilled chicken and spinach salad with lite or fat free dressing on cardio days...1.5 servings of whole wheat pasta with 99% lean ground turkey with sauce on strength days
Snack: 25 gram protein shake
Dinner: grilled chicken/steak with veggie...i.e. asparagus, brussel sprouts, green beans etc...or sauteed onions/peppers with chopped chicken breast with buffalo sauce

Only supplements would be BCAA's before morning workout. Weekends are tough. I may have a cheat meal or two but nothing drastic. Frozen pizza with the wife or a fattier steak (chicken thighs with skin) with a veggie. Again, nothing serious

Here's my issue, I can't seem to drop the last bit of belly fat around my waist. I want those abs to show. I've been at this for a few years now. Overall, I'm down around 30+ lbs which is great. But, over the past few months, I can't see to shake this last but of body fat. I'm not looking to get jacked. Just get fit. I've been hovering between 145-155 lbs for the past 2 months. I take pictures monthly and they all look the same. I don't see much visual change month over month.

What am I doing wrong?

Are you lifting weights? What are your lifts and program are you following?


Based on my personal experience, Looking at your current pictures, I would get onto lift hard (make sure not to go to failure - always have one rep in tank minimum), eat at maintenance for a week or two (to confirm you’re infact at maintenance) and then choose either bulk or cut.

I have spun my wheels for a while and made good gains while finally bulking. Now I’m figuring out that I bulked too slow at 200 calorie surplus. Also learnt that going to failure will hinder recovery and may cause muscle loss.

Things I’ve fixed and saw results within a couple weeks of fixing:
1) reduce weight lifted and have 1 rep in thank on the last set
2) form is king.
3) choose bulk or cut. Recomp is possible but very slow
4) should take a deload week every 4 to 6 weeks cuz I’m older and recovery is an issue

I am pretty high bodyfat but still choosing to bulk - looking better and wider and getting stronger.

The way you look after losing your weight is how I looked after going from 200lbs to 165lb.

If I were you, with what I know now, and I may be totally wrong , I would seriously just get onto a proven noob program (I a doing fierce 5), follow the program to the letter, eat 200 to 300 calorie surplus and get some muscle. Once you get to 170lbs, Worry about cutting.

If you’ve loose even more fat, your maintenance calories will go even lower and you’ll get even more miserable and feeling like chit not eating.

I could not loose weight even at 1600 calories at 165lbs. I reverse dieted (look it up) and was loosing weight till I got to 2400 calories. My maintenance now is 2500 calories at 170lbs and I’m currently bulking at 2800 calories. I will cut when I get to 174 to 180lbs depending on how fat I feel.

This will take a while to sink in, but it’s hard to break free from the skinnyfat curse but it will work.

Also remember this - it’s written everywhere but I just kept ignoring it - no matter how fat you are, muscles are not gonna come at optimal rate unless you’re eating in a surplus unless youre a fatty (like you were and like I was at 200lbs).

So just suck it up for the next few months, gain 0.5lbs to 0.75lbs per week weight and be sure to follow a proved beginner lifting program and lift.

Been trying to not say this but in your after pic, dude it don’t look like you lift

Edit: Also at your age and height you don’t want to weigh less than a 14 year old teenage boy.

Listen to the advice of the people here on this forum - they speak the truth.

Edit #2: looked at your current pic again. It does look like you lift but have very little muscle mass. Continue what you’re doing but don’t forget to eat 200 to 300 above maintenance because that’s what will grow your muscles and come back to cutting later.

You have done an amazing job cutting already and now you need to take a break and build some muscle. Google pictures of muscular people at 20% bodyfat and compare that to skinny at 20%. Muscular 20% looks much better Muscular 20%’s maintenance calories are much much higher which means they can cut at a much higher calories intake.

Good luck buddy!

[TryingBB]

So f'n stupid. Guy looks like he is a teenage Abercrombie and Fitch model. I had to look at his stuff, and he is just another person trying to act like an expert and I could go to any highschool and pic 15 kids that look just like him by nature.


Plain stupid. Focusing on the micro when the macro has far more effect. VERY FEW people need to 'lose that last bit' of fat. Most need to lose weight in general. People who are disciplined and smart enough to build a quality physique AND then diet down, dont need educated on losing that last little bit.

Mirin your pictures!!

Well I beg to disagree - Jeremy ethier makes a lot of sense and his advice is very much in line with most of the advice given on this forum and in this very thread. Including yours I believe...

He is young and does have a smaller body - not everyone is capable of having a physique like you’re. Man those are some huge muscles!!

What’s your height, weight, TDEE? Wow! (No homo)