Prilepin's Chart

[Swoleflex2016]

I have been studying the concept behind all strength building programs. Obviously this stuff works and have been around for decades with proven success.

I personally feel that I am better at reps compared to my 1rm. I do not feel like protocol 1 and protocol 2 (somewhat) does not stimulate muscle growth for me. I still have the mind of a bodybuilder and their concepts contrast against powerlifting concepts. I was always taught to go one rep before failure. So I am struggling stay with protocol 2. Based off the percent (1rm-350 bench) I should do 220x5. I feel that this is way too easy and wont stimulate growth. I could do this 18-20 reps before I failed.

I really don't feel growth stimulation when until I hit 300-315. I do that for 5 reps and feel challenged. Which this is Protocol 3 and is 80-90 percent intensity.

I have a question?

Is it ok to do a majority in that protocol 3 80-90 with occasionally dip into protocol 2 (70-80) percent?

With deload (protocol 1- (60 percent intensity) about every 6 weeks and only going to protocol 4 (95 plus intensity) near a meet.

I have noticed that Ed Coan stayed a lot in protocol 2 and 3.

One more question.

Is it ok say in protocol 2. Since it is easy, Can I do a higher rep range?

I have always believed in progressive overload and a lot of the protocols I feel do not push me.

[mccloudlw]

I think it'll be more appropriate as your physiology transitions to that of a powerlifter. Every 1rm formula says 220x20 should put your 1rm higher than 350. Like 375-380 range.

[Swoleflex2016]

I think it'll be more appropriate as your physiology transitions to that of a powerlifter. Every 1rm formula says 220x20 should put your 1rm higher than 350. Like 375-380 range.

I am close to that. I just don't max often. As one shouldn't.

I think your dead on and that is my struggle. Transitioning from bodybuilding to powerlifting.

I was also taught to fatigue myself to the greatest point in which I am able to recover from. Recover than repeat.

My struggle is that I don't feel fatigued with lower protocols. With the advised reps in the chart. I think it is because I am transitioning. I never taught of that. Thanks.

On the flip, I do get good results when I make a lower protocol a speed day.

[Swoleflex2016]

Thought:

I might have found the answer.

Increase protocols 1 & 2 intensity through decreasing my rest times. Increasing volume of assistance.

[mccloudlw]

I'm a big believer in high volume programs. I've had very mixed feelings using RPE. Maybe similar to you. Some days were exhausting, other days were not, and improvements were never consistent. It was frustrating. With high volume, I know 140+ reps at >70% 1rm four nights a week will either net results or kill me.

And as far as rest time, I always try to use the minimum possible without having a stroke.

[Swoleflex2016]

Maybe the light bulb is sparking. Powerlifting is new to me.

I have noticed that a lot of the solid programing now does treat lighter days as more speed. Cube Method, etc.

I feel the 5 3 1 is best beginner but I am advance lifter and don't feel the need to deload every 4 works and frequently be in lower protocols.

Light bulb moment says to treat low protocols as speed, etc.

I like protocol 3 to be truthfully followed by assistance work. I feel growth from 80-90 percent intensity level. (5 reps)

Plus in the past I could never do a higher weight by doing higher reps frequently. I just got better at reps and not 1rm. I only got heavy weights by moving a heavier weight.

I just had to do it safe to prevent injury. Example: I would work my 305 to 5 reps then bump it to 315 and then over time work up to 5 reps then repeat.

[mccloudlw]

Take it with a grain of salt (I'm still the new kid and am fatter and weaker than just about everyone) but I definitely believe high volume programming is the best if all you care about are PL gains--if you can do it safely.

5/3/1 is a waste of time if you have been lifting for any significant period of time. 5x5, too (please don't hit me). I've done Cube several times and, while it was fun, gains came slowly. I know Prilepin has decades of use behind it, but the volume is 1/10th of some other Russian programs. A day of Smolov has more total reps at 80%+ than a Prilepin endurance day down at 45%. Some of the Russian bench programs are even more drastically contrasting.

If you want to lift heavier, lift heavier. A lot.

[Jtbny]

I have been studying the concept behind all strength building programs. Obviously this stuff works and have been around for decades with proven success.

I personally feel that I am better at reps compared to my 1rm. I do not feel like protocol 1 and protocol 2 (somewhat) does not stimulate muscle growth for me. I still have the mind of a bodybuilder and their concepts contrast against powerlifting concepts. I was always taught to go one rep before failure. So I am struggling stay with protocol 2. Based off the percent (1rm-350 bench) I should do 220x5. I feel that this is way too easy and wont stimulate growth. I could do this 18-20 reps before I failed.

I'm a lot like you with this. I can rep for days but it doesn't translate to my 1rm- example Ive hit 25 reps at 225 but only 345 bench in comp.
I too would feel like 220x5 is far to light- more of a warm-up set for my actual work.

I really don't feel growth stimulation when until I hit 300-315. I do that for 5 reps and feel challenged. Which this is Protocol 3 and is 80-90 percent intensity.

I have a question?

Is it ok to do a majority in that protocol 3 80-90 with occasionally dip into protocol 2 (70-80) percent?

With deload (protocol 1- (60 percent intensity) about every 6 weeks and only going to protocol 4 (95 plus intensity) near a meet.

For me I believe I make the best progress training in the 70-90% range. I try and push the upper intensity if I'm feeling good that day or stay a bit on the lower end if I'm beat up ( when not running some sort of program ). I think a lot is going to depend on what you can recover from and if you are seeing progress under the bar.

I have noticed that Ed Coan stayed a lot in protocol 2 and 3.

I trained with Ed one day. The way I understand his programming the off season was week 1 everything 8 reps, week 2 9 reps ect until he hit 12 reps per set per, add weight to the bar and drop back down to 8 reps and do it again. This was off season work not meet prep. What he told me was to build mass in the off season and strengthen it with the prep and test it on the platform.

One more question.

Is it ok say in protocol 2. Since it is easy, Can I do a higher rep range?

I have always believed in progressive overload and a lot of the protocols I feel do not push me.

In the end its all about what you get out of it. Maybe run a few different programs and see way you respond to first before going at it alone. That way you can incorporate what works for you. Just tossing that out there. FWIW I ran 5/3/1 BBB for 18 months when I was first getting back into this stuff. Great program for me. I'm currently running Canditos 6 week strength program (again) and its quite different. Ill take principles from programs like these two ( and others I've run) which will guide my future training.

Recovery guides me more than anything else. Im 41 so recovery is a bit slower than when I was your age

[Swoleflex2016]

Totally understand.

Thanks for your input.

[young1wisdom]

I am close to that. I just don't max often. As one shouldn't.

I think your dead on and that is my struggle. Transitioning from bodybuilding to powerlifting.

I was also taught to fatigue myself to the greatest point in which I am able to recover from. Recover than repeat.

My struggle is that I don't feel fatigued with lower protocols. With the advised reps in the chart. I think it is because I am transitioning. I never taught of that. Thanks.

On the flip, I do get good results when I make a lower protocol a speed day.

How often do you test? You should test every 8-12 weeks. Not necessarily 1RM but things like singles, double or triples at RPE 9 just to see where you are at. It'll also get your body used to working with heavier weights since you said you were better at reps than at 1 Reps.

[Swoleflex2016]

How often do you test? You should test every 8-12 weeks. Not necessarily 1RM but things like singles, double or triples at RPE 9 just to see where you are at. It'll also get your body used to working with heavier weights since you said you were better at reps than at 1 Reps.

I tested 12 weeks ago and should test again but I just had to deload a week due to the grind.

I will test again in 8 weeks at comp. I will work down to 95 plus intensity and then deload before comp.

I know it is not optimal but I did re-adjust my numbers based off some heavy triples and doubles.

[TheBenchGuy]

This is just a comment on prilepin's chart in regard to what you said earlier about not feeling fatigued. The chart is not designed to be fatiguing. Nor does it really tell you how to train outside the chart numbers. All it does is tell you how many lifts a highly qualified lifter can do in a certain intensity zone before speed and technique is compromised. When following the chart, don't look at it as volume/fatigue work, but technique practice. The volume will accumulate from 1. Total frequency and 2. Extra bodybuilding work for volume and hypertrophy.

So you cqn follow prilepin's chart to optimize speed and technique development, then add workouts over time if you feel you can train harder.

It's also not so much about pushing reps near failure, but rather allowing the weekly/monthly volume to accumulate. Hope that explains some of your concerns perhaps you already knew some of this, but it felt like a relevant thing to bring up

[mdonnelly80]

You always have to remember that Prilepin's chart was based off of the strength gains he was seeing from Eastern Bloc Olympic weight lifters. He found the intensity/rep zones where athletes were making strength gains and then narrowed those zones down to "optimal ranges". Now, this was solely based on their strength gains and doesn't factor in hypertrophy. So, there are a few issues with using Prilepin's chart as a firm guideline for training:

1. Again, it's all about getting a nice cross-section of what increased Olympic lifter's strength and nothing else. I can't state this as a fact but I would imagine that he pulled body-weight out as he didn't need another variable. In other words, a dude in the X weight class made Y% increase on his lifts while a heavier lifter in the Z weight class also increased by Y% and so on and so forth.

2. Again, this is based in numbers taken from Olympic lifters, not power-lifters. Yes, both are strength sports but both they have very distinct differences. The strength gains made off of the clean and jerk and the snatch within those intensity zones could be different from those made on squat, bench and DL. For example, most guys make solid gains from bench using 70-85% of their 1RM for a high total number of reps than is recommended by the chart.

3. Most, not all, but MOST Olympic lifting programs involve clean and jerk variations, snatch variations, back squats and front squats and that's about it. I know the Chinese have incorporated more bodybuilding exercises into their programming but you will find most Olympic lifting coaches prescribing the exercises I talked about above. The Oly lifts are quite taxing as well; more so then bench and squats, IMO. So, there's another factor to take into consideration..

4. The cap at 6 reps just isn't feasible in regards to powerlifting. This is the cap for the number of reps performed on an Oly lift simply because form and bar speed goes to crap after 5-6 reps. This doesn't apply directly to power-lifting as many successful programs involve higher rep ranges. So, you end up tinkering with the overall volume of the workout which can be problematic. Well, it says on the chart that an optimal number of reps for the workout between 70-80% would be 3-6 reps/set done for a total of 18 reps. Now, we can interpret this is numerous ways... Do 6 sets of 3 with 70% with an emphasis on bar speed?.. Do 3 sets of 6 at 80% for an emphasis on hypertrophy? Neither really provides enough volume for most guys.

So, I guess the long and the short of it is this: Prilepin's numbers CAN be effective for implementing a power-lifting program but I don't know that it's optimal. I've seen a few charts out there where people gone more in-depth with the numbers and started splitting stuff up in various linear periodization zones (speed, endurance, hypertrophy, strength, etc...) but, again, I don't believe they're taking the variables I discussed above into consideration when coming up with their bastardized charts.