AllPro: A Simple Beginner's Routine part VI

[27MinuteMiracle]

On AllPro:

1. Can I / should I do chin-ups? The other routines seem to include them. If I don't do them, am I thereby skipping any important muscles?

2. Can I skip curls? I.e. are biceps already covered in one of the compound lifts? I'm not looking to have especially big biceps per se...I just want everything exercised and getting stronger.

3. May I add Face-pulls, if I want?

4. Do Side Lateral Raises hit any muscles not already covered in Allpro?

5. I run 2.5 miles, 3X/week. Can I skip Calf Raises?

6. I once read that Hammer curls hit a head of the bicep that regular curls don't. Is it a good idea to add these to my routine?

Thanks,

[nightanole]

On AllPro:

1. Can I / should I do chin-ups? The other routines seem to include them. If I don't do them, am I thereby skipping any important muscles?

2. Can I skip curls? I.e. are biceps already covered in one of the compound lifts? I'm not looking to have especially big biceps per se...I just want everything exercised and getting stronger.

3. May I add Face-pulls, if I want?

4. Do Side Lateral Raises hit any muscles not already covered in Allpro?

5. I run 2.5 miles, 3X/week. Can I skip Calf Raises?

6. I once read that Hammer curls hit a head of the bicep that regular curls don't. Is it a good idea to add these to my routine?

Thanks,

I think you are going to love this routine

1) Its really hard to progress on a lift you can not do for 10 reps, so chinups are replaced with the bent over row. One is not better than the other. If you can do 10 chinups, and have back fatigue problems, replacing the row with the chinup is a good choice. Else its recomended to to chinups with the grease the grooved method (up to 10 sets spaced at least 30min apart during the day, doing half your max reps each time, retest your maxes every 2 weeks)

2) Every routine includes curls so we can attract the crowd that just does chest and bi's and goes home. Feel free to drop them or replace them with a bicep lift that has the opposite grip of your chinup/row variant.

3) Fact pulls are prehab for big benchers, feel free to get good at them, and hey they are a bicep lift too.

4) Over the years hosting the allpro program you notice patterns. Towards the end of the program most people could use some lat and side delt work, so yea feel free to add some "slightly bent over, thumb knuckle above pinkie knuckle" lat raises. This variant keeps you from flossing your rotator cuff with your connective tissue.

5) calf raises are for the 1/3 of gen pop that cant get good calfs with the base program, if you like your size you can skip them. The recommended cardio on allpro is 3x 10k jogs (takes at least an hour, we are going for distance not time) so that fits nicely/

6) Hammer curls re enforce the elbow for benching, its pre hab just like face pulls. For home work look up how the brachi of the arm work. You will find that the rotation of the wrist dictates if the bicep or the forearm get hit the most. The hammer grip is an almost 50/50 split, henz why it re enforces the elbow joint. However this is not a good variant for someone who needs direct bicep work, or gets tennis elbow pretty easily, said people should stick with palms up grip.

[Pabst0507]

I just started and did a test and got these
Squat 135x10
Bench 135x10
BR 115x10
OBP 80x10
SLDL 135x10
Curls 50x10
Calfs 130x10

i get off work around 9;30pm and eat something before i fall asleep, i then wake up eat something light and hit the gym at 4am. i was doing the chest/tri, legs, back/bi schedule and hitting the gym twice a day sometimes and it got me really sick. i started this and i'm not feeling the same soreness i got from working out more frequently.

[stoneboy]

I can barely squat with barbell forget about the weights. Also, My back curves while attempting exercises like deadlifts. How do I improve my base fitness to get started with these compound exercises.

[nightanole]

I can barely squat with barbell forget about the weights. Also, My back curves while attempting exercises like deadlifts. How do I improve my base fitness to get started with these compound exercises.

You start off with goblet squats, or get yourself a standard weight set with a 15lb bar bell instead of a 45lb. It took my mother well over 2 months before she could OHP my 5kg aluminum training bar.

As for dead lifts, most cant SLDL past the knees before they run out of range of motion. The point is not to get the bar as close to the floor as possible, the point is to extend the hamstrings as far as they can go with a light load, then they go "hey we are not going to snap, lets extend out a little farther next session".

Since odds are you will also have an OHP strength issue, start off with the seated Arnold press with dumb bells.

Ideally you would want most working weights to be 55lbs, so you can do 50lbs on medium day, and the bare bar on light day. But like i said you can get around this by using a lighter bar, or doing dumb bells till you can do 50-55lbs.

[stoneboy]

You start off with goblet squats, or get yourself a standard weight set with a 15lb bar bell instead of a 45lb. It took my mother well over 2 months before she could OHP my 5kg aluminum training bar.

As for dead lifts, most cant SLDL past the knees before they run out of range of motion. The point is not to get the bar as close to the floor as possible, the point is to extend the hamstrings as far as they can go with a light load, then they go "hey we are not going to snap, lets extend out a little farther next session".

Since odds are you will also have an OHP strength issue, start off with the seated Arnold press with dumb bells.

Ideally you would want most working weights to be 55lbs, so you can do 50lbs on medium day, and the bare bar on light day. But like i said you can get around this by using a lighter bar, or doing dumb bells till you can do 50-55lbs.

Sonnds good. Thanks a lot. This could turn out to be life changing advice ;-)

[deebee83]

Curious about cardio. I had tremendous success running this program years ago with zero cardio, as I was cutting and the standard advice was "lift heavy, eat at a deficit, cardio is optional." I've read through the more recent posts in here, and I'm seeing cardio recommendations of 3X per week, at low intensity for as much as a 10k each time.

Plain and simple, I hate cardio and I don't want to do it. Am I setting myself back by just getting my lifts in without some light jogging/biking/etc?

For reference, I am currently cutting @ approximately a 750/day calorie deficit.

[nightanole]

Curious about cardio. I had tremendous success running this program years ago with zero cardio, as I was cutting and the standard advice was "lift heavy, eat at a deficit, cardio is optional." I've read through the more recent posts in here, and I'm seeing cardio recommendations of 3X per week, at low intensity for as much as a 10k each time.

Plain and simple, I hate cardio and I don't want to do it. Am I setting myself back by just getting my lifts in without some light jogging/biking/etc?

For reference, I am currently cutting @ approximately a 750/day calorie deficit.

The cardio is not for weight loss, its for recovery. If you are having trouble with the 2nd set, its almost mandatory. If you are not having recovery problems you do not need to do the cardio.

Yea the 3x 10k jogs is only going to help drop an extra half pound a week at best.

[deebee83]

The cardio is not for weight loss, its for recovery. If you are having trouble with the 2nd set, its almost mandatory. If you are not having recovery problems you do not need to do the cardio.

Yea the 3x 10k jogs is only going to help drop an extra half pound a week at best.

Thanks, will keep that in mind. I'll probably try and force myself into a little cardio anyway, just for general health. If I ever get myself lean enough to actually go on a bulk, I'll consider upping it for the recovery.

Thanks for the reply

[Pabst0507]

im taking a vacation the 21st-27th and im missing a full week in my cycle where do i go from there? I'll be missing a medium week 3, light week 3 and heavy week 4.

[deckedsilver]

My 10 rep maxes are
Bench - 25kg
Squat - 25kg
Deadlift - 40kg

Im worried that the volume is too low since my weights are too low, and strength progression too slow.
Im 54kg and 175cm tall 14 years old
Should I do a program like SS to gain a foundation of strength first, or is this program fine for me?

[nightanole]

im taking a vacation the 21st-27th and im missing a full week in my cycle where do i go from there? I'll be missing a medium week 3, light week 3 and heavy week 4.

Best be is to always reset to week 2, 9 rep week. Its the true beginning of the cycle after the 8 rep mini deload.

[nightanole]

My 10 rep maxes are
Bench - 25kg
Squat - 25kg
Deadlift - 40kg

Im worried that the volume is too low since my weights are too low, and strength progression too slow.
Im 54kg and 175cm tall 14 years old
Should I do a program like SS to gain a foundation of strength first, or is this program fine for me?

SS results after 6-12 months:
180-210lbs for males 5.9-6.2ft tall
deadlift 405lbs for a few reps
squat at least 300lbs for a few reps
bench 225 for several reps
18-22% body fat

SS is and off season program for high school and college football players to make weight for try outs. If they ran a body building program they would be a lot; leaner, slower, have less momentum on the field.

ALLPRO 5-7 cycles progress:
bench 10 reps of body weight
Squat 10 reps of 1.25-1.5x body weight
BMI of 24@13%bf

I think it would be a reasonable goal to increase your 10 rep maxes by 125-150% in 6-9 months.

[PISSINCODEINE]

How many times a week do you have to lift weights to maintain current muscle?

[deckedsilver]

THanks for replying, now last question

Do you think its better to do 1-2 months of SS first (presses increases 15kg a month and squats and deadlifts 30)

Then hop into allpros
Or should i just go into allpros immediately

[nightanole]

How many times a week do you have to lift weights to maintain current muscle?

1/3 THE WEEKLY VOLUME that it takes to grow. Frequency doesnt really matter as long as a set or 2 is RPE 8 or above.

[nightanole]

THanks for replying, now last question

Do you think its better to do 1-2 months of SS first (presses increases 15kg a month and squats and deadlifts 30)

Then hop into allpros
Or should i just go into allpros immediately

That is up to you. Ideally you would start allpro with the first 3 lifts at 55lbs, so you can have heavy at 55lbs, medium at 50lbs, and light day the bare bar.

Or you can run auto regulated allpro if you think you have the movements down.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...post1376160513

[deckedsilver]

Thanks for the help!
Alright so I’ve decided im gonna get my lifts up a bit and then start off

What should my 10 rep max goals be before i switch? Like just gimme a number that u would if u were me because im really uneducated on this.

[nightanole]

Thanks for the help!
Alright so I’ve decided im gonna get my lifts up a bit and then start off

What should my 10 rep max goals be before i switch? Like just gimme a number that u would if u were me because im really uneducated on this.

Again you would switch when you can get 10 reps of 55lbs for the first 3 lifts (bench/row/squat). If your bar bell is less than 45lbs, then you can start allpro at less that 55lbs working weight. Some bar bells are only 5kg for example.

[Pabst0507]

how is the occasional drinking do with this program, lets say i drink on a friday night maybe once or twice a month. will it drastically effect my performance and growth?

[nightanole]

how is the occasional drinking do with this program, lets say i drink on a friday night maybe once or twice a month. will it drastically effect my performance and growth?

Shouldnt affect it at all. One thing to note is alcohol is burned first before any other calorie, and wont replenish your glycogen stores like a normal carb. So from your first drink, to your first meal, you are carb fasting.

[Pabst0507]

Shouldnt affect it at all. One thing to note is alcohol is burned first before any other calorie, and wont replenish your glycogen stores like a normal carb. So from your first drink, to your first meal, you are carb fasting.

so lay off the carbs that night to avoid getting fat

[nightanole]

so lay off the carbs that night to avoid getting fat

No, carb load after that night. "you" are running off of beer, your muscles are stuck running off their glycogen stores till you sober up. But yea that means the fatty foods you eat while drinking, are going to be stored more than burned.

[sydfrex]

Ive been running the butchered version of your program and I dont understand why In having a hard time mking any progress on my upper body lifts (bench, etc.) but my lowerbody can pretty much increase steadily.

My stats are:
Bench : 80 lbs 12 reps
Squats : 150 lbs 12 reps
Bent over rows :60 lbs 12 reps
Mil press : 40 lbs 12 reps
Deadlifts : 130 lbs 12 reps

Upper body lifts as you can see are ****ty. So what am I doig wrong? Im eating at maintenance at 140 lbs, 5'5 and have no reason to bulk unless my lifts will increase. What should i do

[nightanole]

Ive been running the butchered version of your program and I dont understand why In having a hard time mking any progress on my upper body lifts (bench, etc.) but my lowerbody can pretty much increase steadily.

My stats are:
Bench : 80 lbs 12 reps
Squats : 150 lbs 12 reps
Bent over rows :60 lbs 12 reps
Mil press : 40 lbs 12 reps
Deadlifts : 130 lbs 12 reps

Upper body lifts as you can see are ****ty. So what am I doig wrong? Im eating at maintenance at 140 lbs, 5'5 and have no reason to bulk unless my lifts will increase. What should i do

Butchered was not made by allpr or me, nor endorsed by either of us.

And honestly your numbers are pretty in line other than your mill press is a bit low.

Scale it up, if you "git gud" then you would be squatting 315 and benching 225.

Here is a nice strength guide, bare in mind its expecting body weight to be in the lower teens.
http://muscleandbrawn.com/strong-str...tural-lifters/

So based on the 136-145 featherweight class, you should be benching 155lbs for 1 by the end of the first year(allpro is only a 6-9 month program). Since i dont advise beginners to max out, i tell people they should be benching body weight for 10 reps by the time allpro gets too fast in progression for them.

As a neat trick, if you take your test day working weight, and multiply it by 150%, you get your 1 rep max. So your 1 rep max is about 120lbs, so its not like its the end of the world to add 10kg to your working weight in a few months, to be considered dam good progress.

[sydfrex]

Thanks for the reply, never knew that my strength numbers are in line with my weight.

What diet do you suggest to run with allpros though? Is a bulk preferrable or should I just stick with my maintenance calories in order to progress?

[nightanole]

Thanks for the reply, never knew that my strength numbers are in line with my weight.

What diet do you suggest to run with allpros though? Is a bulk preferrable or should I just stick with my maintenance calories in order to progress?

Its never maintaince when you are natty, you just end up not going anywhere.

On allpro you start with a cut and get to 13% body fat (flexed abs). You should be able to bulk off your gut till then.
Once you hit 13% you slow bulk till a bmi of 25. Ending up with 15-18%bf. Then a short 6-8 week mini cut would get you back down to bmi of 24@13% bf.

The base starting diet is 100g of fats/protein and 200-300g of carbs. So 2100-2500 cals. You are are out of the 5.8-6.2 range, so you could reduce those macros by 10-15%. Unfortunately its not a linear scale of body weight to calories. Only a fool would give a 100lb person half the calories of a 200lb person.

[England1991]

Couple of questions

I’m currently on cycle 1, week 4 commencing
on Monday. My squat is 220 pounds as I ran starting strength prior to doing this program and the Monday’s are killing me, squats especially as they are whiping me out and it’s effedting the remainder of the session. Can I reduce the cycles to 4 weeks instead of 5? In other words attempt the 2 sets of 11 Monday and use that as test day rather than the 2 sets of 12 the following week?

And secondly, how long of a pause are you aloud to take in between reps? If im squatting can I stand there for 5 or so seconds to catch my breath for the next rep?

I should probably mention that currently week 5 test day falls on Christmas Day so it’s not an ideal time for me to be attempting 2 sets of 12. Obviously if it’s absolutely nessassary then I’ll suck it up and do it.

[nightanole]

Couple of questions

I’m currently on cycle 1, week 4 commencing
on Monday. My squat is 220 pounds as I ran starting strength prior to doing this program and the Monday’s are killing me, squats especially as they are whiping me out and it’s effedting the remainder of the session. Can I reduce the cycles to 4 weeks instead of 5? In other words attempt the 2 sets of 11 Monday and use that as test day rather than the 2 sets of 12 the following week?

And secondly, how long of a pause are you aloud to take in between reps? If im squatting can I stand there for 5 or so seconds to catch my breath for the next rep?

I should probably mention that currently week 5 test day falls on Christmas Day so it’s not an ideal time for me to be attempting 2 sets of 12. Obviously if it’s absolutely nessassary then I’ll suck it up and do it.

The only reset you can do, is to reset to week 2, 9 rep week. This is a fatigue based training style as you noticed. You are tasked with adding 50% more volume(100% when on novice) over 5 weeks, if you can survive that, you can add 10% more weight next cycle. You noticed this is completely different from say adding 5lbs a session and not adding weight. You will not survive (and were not meant to) a cycle with a few 10 rep or a few 11 rep weeks, you will just get buried in fatigue.

Your choices are:
drop 10lbs since this is your first cycle
reset to 9 rep week
Or since you are experienced, switch to novice for squats, which is 3 sets of 4-8 reps (so still 24 reps on test day)


As for rest between reps, you are doing it right with the 3-7 second "breath and re brace". It a lot better vs breath while moving or just holding your breath and looking like a pogo stick. I might go the first 2-3 reps without the breath/brace, but after that im taking 2-3 big breaths at the top.

[sydfrex]

Its never maintaince when you are natty, you just end up not going anywhere.

On allpro you start with a cut and get to 13% body fat (flexed abs). You should be able to bulk off your gut till then.
Once you hit 13% you slow bulk till a bmi of 25. Ending up with 15-18%bf. Then a short 6-8 week mini cut would get you back down to bmi of 24@13% bf.

The base starting diet is 100g of fats/protein and 200-300g of carbs. So 2100-2500 cals. You are are out of the 5.8-6.2 range, so you could reduce those macros by 10-15%. Unfortunately its not a linear scale of body weight to calories. Only a fool would give a 100lb person half the calories of a 200lb person.

Thanks for the reply... can I add isolation work after the compounds? for example incline dumbbell press after bench press, seated dumbbell press after military press, etc....