Why does God create humans knowing they will end up suffering eternally in hell?

[DizzySmalls]

We got a fire and brimstone Christian up in this thread.

Hi IAMRED. How can I satisfy your need to experience God's wrath today?

[IAMRED]

We got a fire and brimstone Christian up in this thread.

Hi IAMRED. How can I satisfy your need to experience God's wrath today?

By becoming my next atheist whipping boy pls.

[GreatOldOne]

Yes.

This is the monstrous view of God as puppeteer walking people through their lives into Hell on strings still attached to the puppet-master. Good toys go to heaven. Bad toys go to hell.

Very similar in many ways to Islam and occasionalism with God as the direct cause of events. Functionally, in both cases, people are rolled up into expressions of God's will.

Only for some inane reason you consider this theodicy in line with God is good.

The resolution to theodicy is that God is probably evil. Such as your bible passage. 'What if'...this, 'what if'...that. These aren't answers. They're just questions.

Creating counter-intuitive possibilities as an emotional escape from the obvious.

As if you have any reason for thinking the world revolves around you. There's nothing funnier than a narcissistic atheist. You're just a bloated bag of atoms breh.

Your attempt at problem of evil was pretty funny...

But narcissistic thinking that the world revolves you is in Christianities corner...not in atheism. It takes a special amount of desperate self-love to not only without warrant posit that you were personally designed by God, but that God loved you so much that he decided to die for you...while glossing over every realistic counter-factual scenario precluding Christianity.

[DizzySmalls]

By becoming my next atheist whipping boy pls.

Too busy whipping myself for being created imperfectly. You'll have to schedule an appointment.

[GreatOldOne]

We got a fire and brimstone Christian up in this thread.

Hi IAMRED. How can I satisfy your need to experience God's wrath today?

Nothing new and exciting here. Certainly nothing dealing with problem of evil/OP topic.

IAMRED's posts can quickly be summed into 'herp-a-derp God's plan'.

Lulz. Thanks for that one.

[Ehsaun]

>assuming God can't be evil
>assuming the gods care about mere puny mortals

[tallguy29]

If your goal is perfection, then why create sick and demand perfection?

On top of that, absolute free-will doesn't exist. The outputs from your brains depends on certain inherent biases that YOU have no control over. You inherit a lot of things genetically. You do not decide the family,culture,religion,etc you are born into. The environmental factors and random life experiences you have are mostly not in your control. The kids TV shows you watched growing up, the cartoon shows, the comic books, all tweaks your neural hard-wiring. The food you eat, the amount you sleep, the random books/newspapers/conversations you read/take part in all affects your neural networking which in turn effects the output of your brain for a given input. Heck! Even the weather can influence your thoughts and reactions. How can you then go on and even dare assume "absolute free-will"?

Correct...
Absolute free will is in the first lifetime only. The second lifetime is burdened with the previous birth'a "errors" or the past actions. These prevent free exercise of will and cloud, hamper a person's thinking.
It's like this- imagine a rope that ties a goat to a tree. The length of the rope restricts the movement of the goat, but does not determine where the goat goes and what it does! That is up to the goat's free will. The "length of the rope" for the soul is determined by its past actions and restricts "free" will.

[dakensta]

God took a toilet break about 5,000 years ago. His creepy uncle and nephew have been fukcing with us ever since, but once God has finished taking his Holy Shyt he'll sort everything out.

[Kabamaro]

According to Buddhasm (not sure if all groups share this teaching) God does not deserve worship, he created this dimension long time ago and forgot about it

This is a bad way to explain it but you get the idea, and it makes more sense than that we have to go to church every sunday or pray 5 times a day to worship god

It's true that god doesn't seem to care, so why worship him? Imagine your father not being with you in your childhood, but he was busy being in another place doing other things instead of taking care of his son when he needed him, would you say nice things to your dad or show him love? No

[MSKFAHIM]

Correct...
Absolute free will is in the first lifetime only. The second lifetime is burdened with the previous birth'a "errors" or the past actions. These prevent free exercise of will and cloud, hamper a person's thinking.

I am assuming that by "first lifetime" you are talking about the time before one does past actions and "second lifetime" means the time period after those past events. I don't see how anybody except for a newborn baby fresh out of the womb relates to "first lifetime". EVEN THEN, they are born slaves to inclinations and desires and biases that they didn't develop themselves but their parents passed on to them. So, again, they don't have absolute free will!

The simplest way to demonstrate it is the fact that if I have "FREE WILL", why the heck can't I enjoy the thought about killing myself or my mother? You can think about a baby too! Does that baby have the "FREE WILL" to choose at will, a liking for suffering? We just don't have that.

It's like this- imagine a rope that ties a goat to a tree. The length of the rope restricts the movement of the goat, but does not determine where the goat goes and what it does! That is up to the goat's free will. The "length of the rope" for the soul is determined by its past actions and restricts "free" will.

In that case you will be able to identify chains of causes for an action taken by an individual that you can trace all the way back to events that the individual had no control over. Everybody then becomes blame-free!!

[MSKFAHIM]

According to Buddhasm (not sure if all groups share this teaching) God does not deserve worship, he created this dimension long time ago and forgot about it

I thought Buddhism was the only Atheistic religion. Meaning that they don't have a god.

This is a bad way to explain it but you get the idea, and it makes more sense than that we have to go to church every sunday or pray 5 times a day to worship god

It's true that god doesn't seem to care, so why worship him? Imagine your father not being with you in your childhood, but he was busy being in another place doing other things instead of taking care of his son when he needed him, would you say nice things to your dad or show him love? No

Especially if my father was ALL-POWERFUL yet did what you said.

[Kabamaro]

I thought Buddhism was the only Atheistic religion. Meaning that they don't have a god.



Especially if my father was ALL-POWERFUL yet did what you said.

- it is complicated, the god in this case is a god of earth or the creator of this dimension, but there are many other dimensions, so we're not talking about the creator of ALL things

on the second point yes....but the all powerful is also the all merciful, is also the all loving

no matter how powerful is your dad, he won't hurt you if he loved you, and because of how insignificant and innocent you are he loves you regardless

so why should I worship him?

[boseador]

So God creates humans knowing they will go to hell because he wants to show off his power over the things he created. Mayne he does this because there aren't any Gods whome to show off to.

[Athanasius90]

Slightly o/t, but I don't think it's correct to call Buddhism atheistic proper. I think it's more accurate to say Buddhism makes no attempt at describing whatever it is classical religion knows as "God"

[sotrktiv]

Why did God choose to create all the humans he knew would end up in hell suffering eternally? Was he incapable of doing anything to change this? Or was he unwilling to change this?

If I were God I would only actualize those individuals who I knew were going to heaven. There are even ways to make those who would have ended up in hell go to heaven without violating their free will. Just by actualizing for them the situations and events in which they freely choose the good instead of the evil. And I'm a mere mortal. Surely, God with his infinite wisdom and knowledge would know how to bring it about so that all beings he creates end up in heaven. If this is not what will happen I think that either God doesn't care or he's unwilling to do something.

The correct answer to this question relies heavily upon what you believe Hell is. God knows who will and will not enter into His eternity. Before mankind was created, God choose a number of people who would endure many difficulties but would make it into heaven with His help (faith based help which is difficult). God also knows who will go to hell, and this by their own choice (willful ignorance, rebellion, abused freedom, etc). Hell is not eternal suffering, because the spirit in man is not eternal, eternity is a gift given at the final judgment to those who are faithful to Christ. This means eternal suffering isn't an authentic Christian idea.

Hell is an eternal cessation of being after a period of great torment, it is not eternal suffering. God allows men to act as they wish for 80 years + or -, He allows them to do what they want even though He hates what they do, He even acts kindly towards them (allowing them to live full lives while His enemies) and this show His patience and kindness (even towards His enemies). When He sentences these people to hell (the second death, spiritual death) based on their poor behavior, this shows his hatred towards evil, it shows His sense of justice and ultimately reveals His righteous wrath. God also chooses sinful people to pardon, and then helps these get into heaven (in diverse ways), this action shows His mercy, kindness and eternal love (all Christians begin as sinners, and are never truly perfected in a physical sense until after death). So both the good and evil exist to reveal who God is in an ultimate sense.

Why did He make evil people (allow people to become evil)? To show His attributes that wouldn't have been shown otherwise. Is God evil for making people then destroying them? No. Why not? Because life is a gift, and people forfeit their chances at heaven by going their own way and ignoring His call.

[VinnyPazRules]

Why did God choose to create all the humans he knew would end up in hell suffering eternally? Was he incapable of doing anything to change this? Or was he unwilling to change this?

If I were God I would only actualize those individuals who I knew were going to heaven. There are even ways to make those who would have ended up in hell go to heaven without violating their free will. Just by actualizing for them the situations and events in which they freely choose the good instead of the evil. And I'm a mere mortal. Surely, God with his infinite wisdom and knowledge would know how to bring it about so that all beings he creates end up in heaven. If this is not what will happen I think that either God doesn't care or he's unwilling to do something.

Because he can do that ******* he's god. And you just put yourself on the chit list

[VinnyPazRules]

A better question is why does God create babies who he knows will be aborted/miscarried? Why doesn't God get rid of natural disasters & disease? Why doesn't God ever say Hi to the World?

Come at me God

He's not really a micro manager he's more of a hands off god. He created the universe, us and the earth but we're pretty much on our own from there.

[VinnyPazRules]

Yeah why doesn't god just say "Hi" to the world? If he broke radio silence after 2000 years and gave everyone a state of the union address in person (none of that burning bush crap). Everyone would be in a church on Sunday. It would unite the planet and end the confusion over what to believe. No more murder or violence caused by all the competing faiths, no more wars either because everyone would want to go to heaven.

It would literally fix everything.



And yet he can't be bothered.

Na cuz then all the azz kissers like you would convert over and start acting like the most religious people on earth. Heaven has no room for brown nosers

[MSKFAHIM]

Why did He make evil people (allow people to become evil)? To show His attributes that wouldn't have been shown otherwise.

Doesn't make much sense my brother. It's like Bill Gates got caught funding ISIS and then saying "Without me funding ISIS you guys wouldn't be able to deduce on your own that I could aid evil if I wanted to". That makes no sense at all. The US military doesn't need to go randomly invade a country, massacring the people and destroying the nation to show us that it can do that! Anybody doing that would instantly be sent to insane asylum and be classified as criminally insane.

Is God evil for making people then destroying them? No. Why not? Because life is a gift, and people forfeit their chances at heaven by going their own way and ignoring His call.

Please assume the following for a hypothetical:

- I am ALL-POWERFUL
- I am ALL-KNOWING ( Not only I know everything about everything, I also know the past,present and future along with all possible outcomes of all possible events)


I created this robot and gave it free-will. Before I created the robot, I knew that it will brutally massacre your parents on Christmas Eve 2015. The robot was manufactured in a factory and since the day it came out of the factory, it had never met me. The robot was told countless contradictory ideas about it's creator and couldn't validate ANY of them to be true. Christmas Eve of 2015 comes and you find your parents dead. Mercilessly tortured for hours until finally they died. You get to know that I created that robot and knew even before creating the robot that he'd do that.

Would you take me to court? Would you say that despite the robot doing it on his own without me asking him to, I share at least some blame?

[TheJimmyRustler]

Na cuz then all the azz kissers like you would convert over and start acting like the most religious people on earth. Heaven has no room for brown nosers

So why does everyone who doesn't believe get punished?

[TaeBoNinja]

He's not really a micro manager he's more of a hands off god. He created the universe, us and the earth but we're pretty much on our own from there.

The Bible is filled with micro-managing. Why has God stayed silent for 2000 years?

[MSKFAHIM]

The Bible is filled with micro-managing. Why has God stayed silent for 2000 years?

Who says God went on stealth mode for 2000 years? People all around the world are still claiming messengership/prophethood EVEN being God-incarnate. They also have followings. Many of them have bigger followings than JC had while he was alive. You will be able to go and meet the eye witnesses of their miracles or subjects of miracles. All kinds of miracles, man! It's just that we human beings have a bias towards old books and old messengers/prophets. We will not believe the subjects of today's miracles done by today's God-men when they testify directly to us about what they experienced or witnessed. However, we will gladly believe in and defend similar claims as long as they are found in old books.

[BetaAsPhuck]

That's not what God tells us. In fact, the opposite is true.
Have you read ANY religious texts at all?

Jebus crepes.

Will some people suffer in hell for eternity?

Is god omniscient?

[sotrktiv]

Doesn't make much sense my brother. It's like Bill Gates got caught funding ISIS and then saying "Without me funding ISIS you guys wouldn't be able to deduce on your own that I could aid evil if I wanted to". That makes no sense at all. The US military doesn't need to go randomly invade a country, massacring the people and destroying the nation to show us that it can do that! Anybody doing that would instantly be sent to insane asylum and be classified as criminally insane.

Well first, if we are going to use analogies they must line up with each other. First, God doesn't fund/support evil, He is actually a neutral force in this regard (standing against it verbally now, though permitting it, this with the intent to complete justice upon it in the end). Men are free enough to murder without God's aid, and if freedom is bad then authentic good would be bad also. In eternity if only perfect beings existed God would not have been presented the same environment to reveal His full nature (in a demonstrable sense). God acts via demonstration opposed to only illustration, and action becomes a witness for truth. This is why He proves Himself through interaction with the world. Secondly, the American's dropped atomic bombs on Japan to demonstrate their power, and if this didn't occur people would have been able to question American strength. The same goes for God, how many mock Him today because He has yet to show His power (in a way suitable for our time)?

Please assume the following for a hypothetical:

- I am ALL-POWERFUL
- I am ALL-KNOWING ( Not only I know everything about everything, I also know the past,present and future along with all possible outcomes of all possible events)

I created this robot and gave it free-will. Before I created the robot, I knew that it will brutally massacre your parents on Christmas Eve 2015. The robot was manufactured in a factory and since the day it came out of the factory, it had never met me. The robot was told countless contradictory ideas about it's creator and couldn't validate ANY of them to be true. Christmas Eve of 2015 comes and you find your parents dead. Mercilessly tortured for hours until finally they died. You get to know that I created that robot and knew even before creating the robot that he'd do that.

Would you take me to court? Would you say that despite the robot doing it on his own without me asking him to, I share at least some blame?

The problems with this analogy is this, (1) God takes responsibility for creating evil, but He does not take direct responsibility for human choices to practice it. (2) Even if God knew the robot would kill your family, human death is not real death to Him, He calls death "sleep", so this means every dead person remains alive in God's view (that is until the second death), this making the murder of your family irrelevant (He can resurrect the dead like turning on a light). (3) The robot has an instruction manual that lets him know his creator, it's simply up to the robot to read and follow it's directions or not (this despite contrary messages), (4) God is the judge and the one who writes the laws, so who would be able to prosecute Him?

Man's problem is that they take their feelings to be the pinnacle of all existence, every evil ever committed can be corrected by God in an instant, and this is exactly what will happen in the end.

[VinnyPazRules]

The Bible is filled with micro-managing. Why has God stayed silent for 2000 years?

Because the bible wasn't written by god dummy it was written by a person

[TaeBoNinja]

Because the bible wasn't written by god dummy it was written by a person

It was actually written by multiple people, not a person. And what makes you think "He created the universe, us and the earth"...if you're not referencing the Bible?

[MuzzieChik786]

Will some people suffer in hell for eternity?

Is god omniscient?

Maybe. Who knows? We're not privy to that information.

But I sure as hell (see wat I did thaar?) know that everyone isn't destined to eternal hell as opie would like us to believe.

[Alchem]

why not?

[uwootm8]

Why did God choose to create all the humans he knew would end up in hell suffering eternally? Was he incapable of doing anything to change this? Or was he unwilling to change this?

If I were God I would only actualize those individuals who I knew were going to heaven. There are even ways to make those who would have ended up in hell go to heaven without violating their free will. Just by actualizing for them the situations and events in which they freely choose the good instead of the evil. And I'm a mere mortal. Surely, God with his infinite wisdom and knowledge would know how to bring it about so that all beings he creates end up in heaven. If this is not what will happen I think that either God doesn't care or he's unwilling to do something.

Whats wrong with God actualizing people destined for Hell?

[boseador]

Whats wrong with God actualizing people destined for Hell?

That is not what one expects from a maximally good God. Or a merciful God. Especially when it is unnecessary for God to actualize them.