R.I.P. Boy Scouts

[mtpockets]

114 years was a good run

[OldFartTom]

Meh... the US branch of the Scout movement is just one branch (although one of the earlier and larger ones) and most of the other members around the world removed the word "Boy" from their names years ago and admitted girls.

It worked well for them and actually seemed to improve things. A lot of this predates current political correctness nonsense, it just made sense (not done for gender politics reasons).

I'm sure kids can still take part in the same activities and the sky didn't fall in!

Or do you prefer boys to do camping/pioneer/outdoor stuff and the girls only allowed to do colouring in pictures, baking cookies and needlework because they're just girls (last comment intended as good natured baiting )

[LWW]

The outdoors church, full of pervert leaders.

[IronCharles]

Seems rather bigoted towards kids who identify as boys.

It's also going to leach membership from the Girl Scouts of the USA. Doesn't seem fair to them, either.

Who will sell me my Samoas and Thin Mints?

[Mark1T]

Seems rather bigoted towards kids who identify as boys.

It's also going to leach membership from the Girl Scouts of the USA. Doesn't seem fair to them, either.

Who will sell me my Samoas and Thin Mints?

This thing most likely:

[Bando]

"I will do my duty and do my best, to help the girl scouts get undressed." That was our secret motto when I was a scout.

I think this is a good thing, there's very few opportunities for boys to do things with girls in a positive supervised setting.

Girls shouldn't be a mystery and the earlier kids can understand respect and understanding for the opposite gender, the better.

[7Seconds]

Seems rather bigoted towards kids who identify as boys.

Agreed. But rebranding as Scouting America for Young Boys seems problematic.

[IronCharles]

Agreed. But rebranding as Scouting America for Young Boys seems problematic.

Boy Scouts of America wasn't problematic for 114 years. There has always been (and still is) a Girl Scouts of the USA.



What changed? Is it because the Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts were non-inclusive to children who are neither boys nor girls? And if so, why today, rather than 114 years ago?

[7Seconds]

Boy Scouts of America wasn't problematic for 114 years. There has always been (and still is) a Girl Scouts of the USA.



What changed? Is it because the Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts were non-inclusive to children who are neither boys nor girls? And if so, why today, rather than 114 years ago?

When 82,000+ men say they were abused as children and you're forced to pay $2.4 billion to survivors, a rebrand is probably the way to go.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/22/u...ettlement.html

[IronCharles]

When 82,000+ men say they were abused as children and you're forced to pay $2.4 billion to survivors, a rebrand is probably the way to go.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/22/u...ettlement.html

Not going to get a Times subscription to read that article, but I guess it makes sense. Rebranding as an all inclusive, gender neutral child exploitation organization will open up new opportunities for perverts. And the new "child sexual awareness" movement will play right into that.

People who think a name change will eliminate predatory behavior will be in for a rude awakening.

[Mark1T]

Rebranding makes no sense when the same team is running the organization. Just more abuse under a different name.

So, I agree with Charles.

[7Seconds]

Not going to get a Times subscription to read that article, but I guess it makes sense. Rebranding as an all inclusive, gender neutral child exploitation organization will open up new opportunities for perverts. And the new "child sexual awareness" movement will play right into that.

People who think a name change will eliminate predatory behavior will be in for a rude awakening.

I’m not arguing with you, I don’t think it will work at all. I was giving my opinion about your question of what changed. We are talking about an organization that went into bankruptcy protection after being overwhelmed by child sexual abuse lawsuits. So I imagine taking the word “boy” out the name was more meant to lessen the negative association with children as opposed to inclusivity. Especially since they have already been accepting girls since 2019.

As a side I do pay for way too many online subscriptions but if I read it people should really get paid. But the site archive.ph will get you past most paywalls.

[Payton1221]

An opposing view, and I don't know who changed the BOY Scouts or why, but why not let the "free market" decide. If boys or their parents want their child to be involved in an all-boys program, great. If girls or their parents want their child to be involved in an all-girls program, also great. And if those parents prefer that their children participate in a coe-ed program, equally great. So you could have Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, and maybe just Scouts or whatever the governing body wants to call it.

An analogy, what if you were in a body building club but you were forced to allow power lifters to join. Or you were into long distance running but you were forced to let long distance cyclists join.

[mtpockets]

Little fukkers with the blue hair and little man buns will be lining up to get that tranny badge..

Seems rather bigoted towards kids who identify as boys.

It's also going to leach membership from the Girl Scouts of the USA. Doesn't seem fair to them, either.

Who will sell me my Samoas and Thin Mints?

Good points IC

This thing most likely:

Ha Ha Mark...

I wonder if they will come in box looking like someone else's Gucci Suitcase?

[IronCharles]

I’m not arguing with you, I don’t think it will work at all. I was giving my opinion about your question of what changed. We are talking about an organization that went into bankruptcy protection after being overwhelmed by child sexual abuse lawsuits. So I imagine taking the word “boy” out the name was more meant to lessen the negative association with children as opposed to inclusivity. Especially since they have already been accepting girls since 2019.

Well, that makes sense, I suppose. Sweep the "boy" out of the public's view, so the boy lovers can operate with greater secrecy. Brilliant.

An opposing view, and I don't know who changed the BOY Scouts or why, but why not let the "free market" decide. If boys or their parents want their child to be involved in an all-boys program, great. If girls or their parents want their child to be involved in an all-girls program, also great. And if those parents prefer that their children participate in a coe-ed program, equally great. So you could have Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, and maybe just Scouts or whatever the governing body wants to call it.

An analogy, what if you were in a body building club but you were forced to allow power lifters to join. Or you were into long distance running but you were forced to let long distance cyclists join.

That fits in perfectly with today's all inclusive viewpoints. Except it's more like imagine if you were in a women's bodybuilding club, but you were forced to let men join and compete against you. That's how it works in other sports, so why discriminate against bodybuilders?

[latverian41]

Game over. The dominos are falling on the U S of A.

They are taking away everything wholesome Way from this country and turning it into a cess pool. Before you know it girl scout cookies will be replaced with trans scout cookies.

[Payton1221]

That fits in perfectly with today's all inclusive viewpoints. Except it's more like imagine if you were in a women's bodybuilding club, but you were forced to let men join and compete against you. That's how it works in other sports, so why discriminate against bodybuilders?

I don't see your point. How can having a Boys Scouts for just boys and a Girl Scouts for just girls be considered all inclusive? I'm suggesting a third group of scouts for those kids/parents who want to do these activities with the opposite sex.

[IronCharles]

I don't see your point. How can having a Boys Scouts for just boys and a Girl Scouts for just girls be considered all inclusive? I'm suggesting a third group of scouts for those kids/parents who want to do these activities with the opposite sex.

You mentioned having just a "Scouts" for gender indifferent families. Sort of like having bodybuilding contests for "bodybuilders," regardless of gender, is my point. Or they could have a "Professional Golfer's League" that's open to men, women, and others. But I could see a number of problems with that happening, and probably why it hasn't happened to this point. So it seems counterintuitive to eliminate the Boy Scouts, while keeping the Girl Scouts. It just dilutes the participation pool for one traditional organization, while creating ambiguity in the other.

Sort of like, you can be a Ford fan, and hate Chevys..... or vice versa. Or, you can like both Fords and Chevys. But, you can only drive one at a time, so you have to choose every time you get behind the wheel. What's happening here is that one company is inventing a ChevFord, so that people don't have to choose. And everybody will be laughing at you as you drive down the road in your compromise vehicle.

[OldFartTom]

I think people are seeking outrage, trying to make it into an issue that's not there. This has nothing to do with the BS trans competing in sports as "women". Don't think I'm arguing for some libtard nonsense here, I'm absolutely opposed to that.

I've got 3 kids, eldest is a boy, younger two are girls. The eldest 2 both were in beavers and cubs but dropped out at the age when they could've joined scouts. (Beavers is ages 6-8 and cubs is ages 8-10 1/2. After that they join scouts). In UK we don't segregate boys/girls in scouts and typically we don't segregate elementary or high schools, plenty of exception exist for single sex schooling but they're exceptions not the norm.

Having had a boy and a girl take part in the scouting system I don't see the relevance of gender in the sort of activities they do, I don't see the benefit of segregating them. It's not powerlifting, it's not track and field. Why is it more or less necessary to separate kids at saying: school, versus at scouts? Now if there's ever a Scouts sports competition or something relevant, I think it should be categorised for boys/girls, other than that why segregate when not relevant?

So..
Those against both boys and girls joining Scouts: Are you opposed to boys and girls being at school together and do you think you'd have been better for having attended only single sex schooling? And if not.. then why Scouts?


Edit: there are still girls only equivalents in UK mostly for historical reasons, the one like Girl scouts is called Guides and there is a younger version called Brownies, but they're increasingly less popular. Many (including my eldest daughter) question their relevance especially when the scouts did more exciting trips anyway. For example the older kids in Beavers did things like a PADI bubble maker session (kids trial scuba dive in a swimming pool), trip to aircraft museum, lots of camping, rappelling, etc but the Brownies did colouring in pictures, crafts, gentle nature walks, singing. So the two options are there but the kids themselves are choosing to be in Scouts

[IronCharles]

So..
Those against both boys and girls joining Scouts: Are you opposed to boys and girls being at school together and do you think you'd have been better for having attended only single sex schooling? And if not.. then why Scouts?

Gender bonding has been a thing since the beginning of time. Men's clubs, women's socials, etcetera. Just because like minded folks enjoy spending time together doesn't mean that they hate other groups of individuals. Many enjoy a certain level of comfort in associating with the same type of persons. Some people also value tradition, and Boy Scouts has been a tradition for 114 years. Unfortunately, there's been a recent trend to stop people from enjoying exclusive clubs, and an attempt to homogenize all attempts at socialization.

Sure, start a Kids Club, for those who are looking for a co-ed experience. But why deny Boy Scouts the opportunity to cherish their traditions? Why should the Girl Scouts be required to accept boys? It's just too many people trying to push their agendas down everybody else's throats. Stop trying to change things for the sake of change, and let people do what they want to do, if it's not hurting anyone else.

Also, to address your point about schools: Nobody wants to build twice as many schools or pay twice as many teachers for their children to get a basic education. And yes, gender mingling in a situation such as schools is a positive thing, as it allows boys and girls the opportunity to experience and understand each other. However, it doesn't mean that all optional fraternization has to be that way.

[OldFartTom]

Good points Charles, can't argue with those.

In the UK the change was some years ago and driven by people wanting it, not ideological/political agenda. I hope that's the real reason in the US too? Hard to tell now it's become a political football.

[Digression]As a historical note, if you read Baden Powell's "My Adventures as a Spy" (acknowledging the existence of a comment he makes near the star showing the racism that was normal in his society) it's a good light read. And written at a level to be accessible to boys of Scouting age. Reading it makes plain his motivation for founding the Scouts and where his head was at (The Boy Scouts of America was derived from this). The primary difference he says between a spy and a scout is wearing a uniform. It was always intended to teach pioneer, field, green skills (as in surveillance green skills), map reading, recording info including covertly and overtly, self sufficiently, initiative, disguises, camouflage, where people look and how to hide in plain sight, escape and evasion, communication in various ways covert and overt. It got gradually watered down over the years but if you look closely there's still a hint of it if you realise what you're looking at. Not sure if you have same terminology in US but breaking groups into small teams, terms like patrols, troop, person in charge of a small team is called "six" (sixer) just as few examples, the closer you look the more you'll see[/Digression]