Pecs: help, I am about to cry

[UglyNerd]

So, I have been lifting for most of the last 2 years now somewhat casually, now 31 years old, kids limit my gym time, but frankly I am embarrassed by my chest.

I took some pics tonight, but my post count is below 50 so I can't include images or hyperlinks, type this in, apparently case sensitive:



imgur dot com/a/E9Pim



My arms are getting there, my abs will be there when I stop eating a whole pizza and drinking a liter of Mountain Dew every time I stay late at the office, but my pecs.... You can see in the last picture that I have some roundness through the middle, but from the front, they are non-existent. What I have wanted more than anything since I started lifting is a "boob shelf." I want that prominent shadow at the bottom. I don't care if I can't do a push up, I just want that size/ shape.

This evening, after a day with my kids at the water park mirin' guys who clearly don't lift but have bigger pecs than me, I Google Image Searched "lagging lower pecs" and clicked on "Visit Page" on the very first result, some guy, gertlouw, saying how he got a larger chest.

I almost cried. He clearly works way harder than I ever have. His arms, abs, obliques, and quads are amazing, but his chest, even in the "after" photos, looks like an 11 year old boy.

Am I doomed by genetics? What do I do?

[JontheAtheist]

What's your workout routine look like?

[UglyNerd]

What's your workout routine look like?

I will typically do a circuit, rotating through exercises so my rest breaks don't occupy a spot, but they generally add up to the following

3 sets peck deck
2 sets bench (lighter because no spotter)
2 sets flys on a fixed vertical axis machine, it's somewhat inclined)
3 sets flys on a cable, declined

I shoot for 10 reps per set, sometimes failure at 8 or 12, sometimes I just quit at 10. I generally keep working until the weight I can move drops by 50%; I feel like that's when my body tells me it's done, is it worth it to keep working with much lower weight at that point?

[mikegilbert1986]

Theres no pic

[UglyNerd]

Theres no pic

but my post count is below 50 so I can't include images or hyperlinks, type this in:
imgur dot com/a/E9Pim

[MichaelCJ]

Get on a better program and run it for 6+ months.

[DoogShnooglis]

I see no reason for you to be embarrassed by your chest. I wouldn't even agree that it's lagging; None of you is that big yet. You've freakin' only been lifting casually for two years. Ask dudes on here how long it took them to get their pecs to where they are and how far from casual they've been about it the whole time. Just keep working and stop stressing. There's nothing wrong with you now. You just have high goals that'll take you time to achieve.

[RustyPipes]

Mix in some dumbbells to your routine; they hit the chest differently. Also consider working the chest muscles more than once a week.

[Jasonk282]

Stop being casual about it. Put in work vato. If you want a bigger chest you need to get stronger for reps while also eating to get big.

If I were you I'd focus on just getting stronger for the next 6 months and eating to get bigger.

Ditch that crap you're doing and get in a simple 5*5 like fierce 5.

Hell even something like

Bench 5x5
incline bench 5x10
seated ohp 5x10
dips 5xAMAP

would get your chest bigger and stronger

[LVG99]

Big pecs are overrated...I'd much rather have big delts. But if pecs are concerning you....

Looking at your routine, I would say stop paying so much attention to 'pec decks' and 'flies'. Focus on one or both of bench presses and dips. These are the two big mass builders of the chest. Dips are the only chest exercise I do, not that I have great pecs, but I am happy with my development. One of those two exercises is all you need, as long as you go hard.

[TJP33]

more eating and pressing (flat and incline- 3-4 sets each) with less flys.
beginners program

[Tommy W.]

I will typically do a circuit, rotating through exercises so my rest breaks don't occupy a spot, but they generally add up to the following

3 sets peck deck
2 sets bench (lighter because no spotter)
2 sets flys on a fixed vertical axis machine, it's somewhat inclined)
3 sets flys on a cable, declined

I shoot for 10 reps per set, sometimes failure at 8 or 12, sometimes I just quit at 10. I generally keep working until the weight I can move drops by 50%; I feel like that's when my body tells me it's done, is it worth it to keep working with much lower weight at that point?

Your routine won't grow sh*t.
Get 1 day a week where you concentrate on building strength with rep range of 4-6. Lose the circuit training. The lower rep scheme will demand longer rest periods. Get in some incline work, DB or BB. You need to concentrate on using the pecs with all chest exercises.
Do Chest Dips (This made ne blow up )
This is for starters....

Lose the cable and machine flys. DB only.

[Stomwin]

Heavy benching made my pecs grow, and really focus on retracting the scap, pinning the shoulders and pushing with the chest. When i started i wasnt focusing enough on pushing with my chest and my tris exploded but my chest didnt budge

[BioSmith91]

I will typically do a circuit, rotating through exercises so my rest breaks don't occupy a spot, but they generally add up to the following

3 sets peck deck
2 sets bench (lighter because no spotter)
2 sets flys on a fixed vertical axis machine, it's somewhat inclined)
3 sets flys on a cable, declined

I shoot for 10 reps per set, sometimes failure at 8 or 12, sometimes I just quit at 10. I generally keep working until the weight I can move drops by 50%; I feel like that's when my body tells me it's done, is it worth it to keep working with much lower weight at that point?

You're not going to build a big, thick chest by doing a circuit. You're just simply not inducing enough absolute muscular tension to stimulate growth. Muscle growth is both myofibilliar (thickening of the muscle fibers) and sarcoplasmic (non-contratile components such as glycogen storage and fluid retention.) Doing "circuit training" as you are now, is only going to induce the sarcoplasmic side of hypertrophy. This will cause you to look "fuller," but if you're not inducing any myofibilliar growth then you're going to be limited by how big you get.

What would be better for you, is to do a more traditional set up, where you start with 3-4 sets db flat bench for 6-10, then 3-4 sets db incline for 8-12, then move to the pec deck and cable flies. Those you can do the way you're doing it now.

[GravityLee]

The problem isn't your genetic pec shape its that you are small.

5'8" 157? I confess I have always been small as well. I used to weigh around your weight at the age of 25. At 18 I only weighed 125 lbs. I am also 5'8".

Its really going to be a matter of eating surplus and getting on a regular chest routine. I personally would work the chest twice a week. I like PPL Split. I dunno I have some different ideas about what you should do and stuff but the meat and potatoes of it is you need to eat enough to put on weight and work chest twice a week and wait for results. If you want my routine send me a private message and I will type it up I'm getting good results. I had some friends who haven't seen me in over a year hang out and they commented that my chest/shoulders area are all coming up.

[JontheAtheist]

3 sets peck deck
2 sets bench (lighter because no spotter)
2 sets flys on a fixed vertical axis machine, it's somewhat inclined)
3 sets flys on a cable, declined

I shoot for 10 reps per set, sometimes failure at 8 or 12, sometimes I just quit at 10. I generally keep working until the weight I can move drops by 50%; I feel like that's when my body tells me it's done, is it worth it to keep working with much lower weight at that point?

Geez, dude. No wonder your pecs haven't grown. Try doing four sets at 10-12 reps and lift heavier weights.

[GravityLee]

Geez, dude. No wonder your pecs haven't grown. Try doing four sets at 10-12 reps and lift heavier weights.

This is the same advice I would give and what I do in my own routine

Also f barbell bench for some people its just not a good exercise. Replace with flat bench dumbbell and incline dumbbell on alternating days.

[JontheAtheist]

And ask someone to spot you at the gym. Lots of guys hang around the bench area at my gym and in between their sets I'll ask one of them to spot me. Don't short yourself just because you don't have a spotter, dude. Just ask someone. Or ask one of those trainers that just walk around the gym all day.

[JontheAtheist]

Replace with flat bench dumbbell and incline dumbbell on alternating days.

This.

[UglyNerd]

I appreciate the advice, everyone. I'm really confused by a lot of it, however.

I spent a year doing 5-8 reps to failure on EVERY SINGLE SET, 2 days a week for chest and arms. I was getting way stronger, but not growing at all, which is the opposite of what I wanted. After reading some threads on this site, I learned that I should be doing less weight more reps to cause hypertrophy. It definitely worked for my arms over the second year of lifting, (I know, but you should have seen them before.) My chest thickened out at the top, but not at all on the bottom.

Why do people keep suggesting 5x5 when my goal is not strength? From what I read and have experienced, low reps is a less efficient way to my goal, so I don't understand... what am I missing here? Also, everyone says do more incline, which also doesn't seem to address my concern of lower pecs. My upper pecs have grown a lot, it's the lateral and lower portions are not... Are people not reading the question when responding or is there some component of this that I need to understand better?

What specifically is the purpose of dropping the circuit? My thinking here was that, in addition to being considerate to other users, doing a set of curls in between chest exercises maximized my rest and allows me to increase the weight for the appropriate time under tension for each set. Help me understand what is wrong with this style. If doing them together is better, I definitely will, I just want to understand why

Also, I think I downplayed how hard I have worked my chest - Recently it has been once a week because I have had a lot going on, but it was twice a week and ultra sore every time, I was eating at least 120g protein and 5g creatine every day. I plan to up my clean calories a lot now that I'm back from vacation, any other suggestions?

[Mrpb]

Why do people keep suggesting 5x5 when my goal is not strength?

Cause strength largely correlates with size. 5x5 works well for building size and strength.

How much can you bench currently?

[ironwill2008]

I will typically do a circuit, rotating through exercises so my rest breaks don't occupy a spot, but they generally add up to the following

3 sets peck deck
2 sets bench (lighter because no spotter)
2 sets flys on a fixed vertical axis machine, it's somewhat inclined)
3 sets flys on a cable, declined

I shoot for 10 reps per set, sometimes failure at 8 or 12, sometimes I just quit at 10. I generally keep working until the weight I can move drops by 50%; I feel like that's when my body tells me it's done, is it worth it to keep working with much lower weight at that point?

^^^^ This is terrible. My 64-year-old wife trains harder than this.



For starters, post your entire routine.


Post your daily calories and macros, and the methods you use to track them.

[DoogShnooglis]

People are suggesting beginning strength programs because you're a beginner. You apparently have the idea that you can get huge without getting strong or get strong without growing. You aren't at a level yet where you can reasonably tailor your program toward those goals individually. You'll make plenty of progress trying to get stronger. It seems like you're expecting to see visible growth every day or something. If you want a huge chest, don't think something's terribly wrong with your genetics because working, even hard, for two years isn't enough. If you're at year ten and your chest is that size, maybe then something's really wrong. But right now, you're not even a little bit disproportional. You're just small.

As for the circuit and rep ranges, what you read isn't always the answer, and you haven't experienced anything yet. Time under tension is a term that refers to a muscle group being worked, not all muscles in general. You don't build a bigger chest by working your biceps in between chest sets. You just burn energy you should've been using for your chest. At your level, there's not really any good reason for you to be doing biceps-only exercises anyway, and especially not at the same time as chest.

[Serpentarius]

Why do people keep suggesting 5x5 when my goal is not strength?

Progressive overload over time = size. Size is determined by genetics.

[Dannylightning1]

i can do push ups and build a nice chest, my chest was mainly build from pus hups, i only started benching again a couple of months ago. back when i was younger my chest was allot bigger and that was from a mix of bench and push ups too. mainly benching though.

my guess is you are not eating enough and you are not eating right. you want at least 1 gram of protein per lb of body weight. and at least 2-3 grams of crabs per lb of body weight. you also need to eat enough food to gain weight or you will not gain muscle..

you also need a little bit of fat in your diet, but only about 10% of your calories should come from fat. eat healthy unprocessed foods and

if you want to gain muscle you need to eat the right diet, you will also gain some body fat while bulking but if you eat right you should not gain much body fat.

check out the IIFYM macro calculator to get a good idea of where you need to be to get the correct amount of calories and macros for your age, weight and all of that.

[mr.average]

Progressive overload over time = size. Size is determined by genetics.

^Which one is it then?

[Tommy W.]

^Which one is it then?

Both.

OP you need to build strength in certain exercises to progress. The more strength in the lower rep ranges will assist with having more strength in the 8-12 range. The progression will be much faster and you'll be working the muscle fibers that respond to the lower reps also.

[Serpentarius]

^Which one is it then?

Its the same exact thing....how much it grows (ONLY UNDER INCREASED TONNAGE) is determined by genes. Rep range has nothing to do with it. In fact, moving the weight as fast as possible under both concentric and eccentric loading produces more hypertrophy than the bro "slow rep contraction" BS. Under a heavier load, contractile forces increase, which completely eliminates the artificial need to "squeeze" a muscle with a light weight as you can get rid of that entirely by just moving a heavier weight.
keep adding weight and you will get bigger (as you are programmed to), if someone never increases the weight (increasing reps is a bad idea, and sets as well as you are not going to be in the gym for hours and hours).
Furthermore, no exercise is superior and develops it in a different way, if you put a heavier load on it, with enough response (rest and nutrients in a caloric surplus), it will grow.

Not saying to you but there is so much broscience its ridiculous "this exercise for thickness, this exercise for width". El oh El.

Its true that higher reps induce more hypertrophy, but thats given per given sets in a specific training session and can be made up with more sets, not over time.

[Jasonk282]

I appreciate the advice, everyone. I'm really confused by a lot of it, however.

I spent a year doing 5-8 reps to failure on EVERY SINGLE SET, 2 days a week for chest and arms. I was getting way stronger, but not growing at all, which is the opposite of what I wanted. After reading some threads on this site, I learned that I should be doing less weight more reps to cause hypertrophy. It definitely worked for my arms over the second year of lifting, (I know, but you should have seen them before.) My chest thickened out at the top, but not at all on the bottom.

Why do people keep suggesting 5x5 when my goal is not strength? From what I read and have experienced, low reps is a less efficient way to my goal, so I don't understand... what am I missing here? Also, everyone says do more incline, which also doesn't seem to address my concern of lower pecs. My upper pecs have grown a lot, it's the lateral and lower portions are not... Are people not reading the question when responding or is there some component of this that I need to understand better?

What specifically is the purpose of dropping the circuit? My thinking here was that, in addition to being considerate to other users, doing a set of curls in between chest exercises maximized my rest and allows me to increase the weight for the appropriate time under tension for each set. Help me understand what is wrong with this style. If doing them together is better, I definitely will, I just want to understand why

Also, I think I downplayed how hard I have worked my chest - Recently it has been once a week because I have had a lot going on, but it was twice a week and ultra sore every time, I was eating at least 120g protein and 5g creatine every day. I plan to up my clean calories a lot now that I'm back from vacation, any other suggestions?

.going to failure every single set is a sure fire way to NOT make any progress, hypertrophy happens in ALL rep ranges. More strength will allow you to use more weight at higher rep ranges. Typically 8-12 reps is around 60-70% of your 1RM so if person A has a bench max of 225 and person B has a bench max of 315 with 70% of their max persona A will be 158 for sets of 8 while person B will be 220. I'm pretty sure that person B will be much bigger due to repping his person A's max.

For a natural lifter the stronger you are the bigger you are. Also what you're also missing is A LOT of back work. Look at the best benchers in the world, their backs are massive, wide and thick. Build a bigger back and you'll also build a bigger and wider chest.

Your routine is complete crap. You have 8 sets of flys and 2 sets of bench. If you want to get a bigger chest you need to bench more, way more and get rid of the flys. Do dips. You really can't 'isolate' upper, lower or middle pecs.

flat bench 5x5
incline bench 5x10
dips 4xAMAP

If doing that is not getting your a bigger, stronger chest...then you are doing something very very wrong.

[Mrpb]

In fact, moving the weight as fast as possible under both concentric and eccentric loading produces more hypertrophy than the bro "slow rep contraction" BS.

Interesting. Do you have a source for that?