"Fierce 5" Comprehensive Program List

[davisj3537]

Davis,

I know that you're a huge advocate for exercises that promote shoulder health. I recently read someone touting loaded carries for this purpose. What do you think?

And how about overhead squats? Any merit for shoulder health?

As far as best bang for your buck regarding shoulder health, can you prioritize them (e.g., 1-4 or 1-5) or is that entirely too subjective based on an individual's structure?

It's hard to say because like you said we are all slightly different. There are a few lifts that I think are crucial to have in your bag regardless though. They really all are equally important.

1. Some type of overhead stabilization. Bottoms up carries, overhead squats, overhead press...etc.
2. External rotation. There are some face pulls (omar isuf style) that accomplish this task as well as some pulls, but W's are a great example.
3. Rear delt isolation. Reverse flies or face pulls for sure.
4. Lower trap work. This is one of those muscles that is commonly underdeveloped during compound lifts. Some direct work is great and you get that from things like face pulls and W's.
5. Serratur anterior stuff. This gets picked up a bit during pressing and scapular protraction, though there are some lifts like scapular pushups to target it.


You're thinking man face pulls take care of 2, 3 and 4. They do, but one exercise isn't always adequate enough, which is why my routines have so much pulling and different types of it. This stuff is a serious wild goose chase and is as complicated as one could make it. There are some great shoulder prehab routines out there on youtube. I bet ego has a few favorites to advise. I've kind of made up my own over the years.

[Payton1221]

. . . one exercise isn't always adequate enough, which is why my routines have so much pulling and different types of it.

I do know to include plenty of pulling, and I've recently added inverted rows along with my chin-ups to provide a pull from another plane. I need to be more consistent with the face pulls though. Any preference: warm-up or last exercise of the day?

[davisj3537]

I do know to include plenty of pulling, and I've recently added inverted rows along with my chin-ups to provide a pull from another plane. I need to be more consistent with the face pulls though. Any preference: warm-up or last exercise of the day?

You can honestly do them every day as a warmup, cool down or legit part of your routine. I'd be tempted to say alternate normal face pulls with the isuf style. Literally can't do too many.

[Revalationz]

Hi,
I've been using your Novice program for around 5 months, and have recently switched to the Intermediate program. Really love it!

The one thing I want to change though, is the RDL. My grip fails, and I really want to do normal DL. So I've read in your FAQ that I can switch out front squat and RDL for DL and lunges, but I'd rather not do lunges as they feel awkward.
I used to swap out FS/RDL for DL and leg curls in the novice program, but it seems like I can't do the same in the intermediate.
If I dont want to do lunges, but still want to do DL, what can I do instead?

How about split squats or leg press?

So, today I decided to give front squat a chance again, but I just can't do it. It hurts my front delts/arms, and I almost can't balance it. Maybe it was too heavy? but I need it heavy to do 3x5, right? I could go lower weight, but then I would be able to do much more than 3x5. I'm doing squats fine though, with almost triple the weight.

Anyways, I did leg press 3x10 instead, like you said, and then went on to do normal DL 3x5. That was tough after the leg press. What should I do different?

Leg press 3x10 then DL 3x8?
Leg press 3x10 then RDL 3x8?

Maybe DL/RDL first? (3x5 or 3x8?)

I appreciate your answers. This is really the only thing I need to get fixed, then I'm ready to rock your U/L routine for months ahead! I love this routine so much.

[Metalmank]

So, today I decided to give front squat a chance again, but I just can't do it. It hurts my front delts/arms, and I almost can't balance it. Maybe it was too heavy? but I need it heavy to do 3x5, right? I could go lower weight, but then I would be able to do much more than 3x5. I'm doing squats fine though, with almost triple the weight.

Anyways, I did leg press 3x10 instead, like you said, and then went on to do normal DL 3x5. That was tough after the leg press. What should I do different?

Leg press 3x10 then DL 3x8?
Leg press 3x10 then RDL 3x8?

Maybe DL/RDL first? (3x5 or 3x8?)

I appreciate your answers. This is really the only thing I need to get fixed, then I'm ready to rock your U/L routine for months ahead! I love this routine so much.

Try it again. Front Squat isn't a easy squat, but very beneficial. I myself have a love/hate relationship with it and my low bar squat is way higher then my Front squat. If it hurts that much, you need to focus on bar placement (Possibly work on stretching / flexability for Front squat) and lower the weight. Even if it isn't super hard, Drill the form and placement in your head and increase weight.

As for the deadlift thing. I would do deadlift first before Leg press or RDL.

[Farley1324]

So, today I decided to give front squat a chance again, but I just can't do it. It hurts my front delts/arms, and I almost can't balance it. Maybe it was too heavy? but I need it heavy to do 3x5, right? I could go lower weight, but then I would be able to do much more than 3x5. I'm doing squats fine though, with almost triple the weight.

Anyways, I did leg press 3x10 instead, like you said, and then went on to do normal DL 3x5. That was tough after the leg press. What should I do different?

Leg press 3x10 then DL 3x8?
Leg press 3x10 then RDL 3x8?

Maybe DL/RDL first? (3x5 or 3x8?)

I appreciate your answers. This is really the only thing I need to get fixed, then I'm ready to rock your U/L routine for months ahead! I love this routine so much.

Post video of front squats

[hbaydoun]

Ok I just completed 2 weeks of the routine. When I add weight you say increase by 5 on upper body, so for benching will I increase by 5 for each side of the bar or add 2.5 pounds to each side of the bar?For example, I benched 2 20 pound plates so would I add 2.5 pound plates to both side of the bar after 2 weeks and bench 45 or add 5 pounds to each side of the bar and bench 60?

[Farley1324]

Ok I just completed 2 weeks of the routine. When I add weight you say increase by 5 on upper body, so for benching will I increase by 5 for each side of the bar or add 2.5 pounds to each side of the bar?For example, I benched 2 20 pound plates so would I add 2.5 pound plates to both side of the bar after 2 weeks and bench 45 or add 5 pounds to each side of the bar and bench 60?

5+5 = 10

2.5 + 2.5 = 5

Obviously, everything on the bar counts (as does the bar)

Add 5.

[Payton1221]

You can honestly do them every day as a warmup, cool down or legit part of your routine. I'd be tempted to say alternate normal face pulls with the isuf style. Literally can't do too many.

Thanks!

[WolfRose7]

Ok I just completed 2 weeks of the routine. When I add weight you say increase by 5 on upper body, so for benching will I increase by 5 for each side of the bar or add 2.5 pounds to each side of the bar?For example, I benched 2 20 pound plates so would I add 2.5 pound plates to both side of the bar after 2 weeks and bench 45 or add 5 pounds to each side of the bar and bench 60?

5lbs total per week.
2.5lbs each side..

[hbaydoun]

Ok thanks, I feel stupid for asking that question now lol. But on rest days am I suppose to reduce my calories or keep them the same as a workout day?

[MMonis]

Hi,

I have been running the Fierce 5 beginner version for a few months now.
My lift stats are as follows:
Workout A :
Squat - 75 kg - stalled
Bench press - 40 kg - stalled
Wide grip seated row (machine) - 50 kg
Face pulls - 27 kg
Calf raise - 80 kg
Tricep pressdown - 27 kg

Workout B
Incline Bench - 37.5 kg - stalled
Leg press - 95 kg
Leg curls - 25 kg - stalled
Lat pulldown - 10 kg - stalled
Bicep curls - 17.5 kg - stalled

I am 32 yrs old, 5 ft 3, and weigh 56 kgs.

I wanted to know based on my body type are the lift stats above good or am I doing something wrong?
I have also stalled on a few exercises. I did a reset on few of them but when I reached these weights again, I stalled again. Any tips to get past this hurdle ?

[WolfRose7]

Hi,

I have been running the Fierce 5 beginner version for a few months now.
My lift stats are as follows:
Workout A :
Squat - 75 kg - stalled
Bench press - 40 kg - stalled
Wide grip seated row (machine) - 50 kg
Face pulls - 27 kg
Calf raise - 80 kg
Tricep pressdown - 27 kg

Workout B
Incline Bench - 37.5 kg - stalled
Leg press - 95 kg
Leg curls - 25 kg - stalled
Lat pulldown - 10 kg - stalled
Bicep curls - 17.5 kg - stalled

I am 32 yrs old, 5 ft 3, and weigh 56 kgs.

I wanted to know based on my body type are the lift stats above good or am I doing something wrong?
I have also stalled on a few exercises. I did a reset on few of them but when I reached these weights again, I stalled again. Any tips to get past this hurdle ?

How much weight are you gaining each month

[MMonis]

How much weight are you gaining each month

1 to 1.5 kgs.

[rpedrosb]

Due to a tight schedule, I can only workout on Mondays, Tuesdays and another day of the week. For this reason, I'll be doing an U/L/Fullbody version of the program.

I have been read on a post in this thread that UpperA/LowerA/FullbodyA + UpperB/LowerB/FullbodyB would be a suitable option. However, considering that UpperA and FBA work bench press and UpperB and FBB work OHP, wouldn't it be better to perform UpperA/LowerA/FullbodyB + UpperB/LowerB/FullbodyA? Or is it just not at all important?

If you have any better proposal for an Upper/Lower/FB feel free to proposte it as well! THX

[farenzer]

Hello.

This are my results from following the intermediate upper/lower program from mid november to last day of april.

Weight are in kg.
BP (dumbbells): 36x12 > 52x5
IBP (dumbbells): 28x12 > 40x12
DL: 42,5x1 > 97,5x1
SQ: 25x5 > 42,5x5 (Didnt squat during the fierce 5 program because of knee pain)
BOR: 20x12 >47,5x8
Lat Pulldown: 38x8 > 47,5x9
Chinup: 8rep +5kg > 5rep +15kg

I incresead my bodyweight by 6,5kg to 7,5kg since I started training in september.

At this point I stopped the training as I was starting to feel some minor inflamation in my shoulders wich resulted in bicep tendonisis and some supraspinatus tendonosis (MRI).

After i stopped the fierce 5 program but still hadnt figure out what was going on on my front shoulder I started to squat only 3 times per week as my knees feel better. I was able to add 2,5kg to the bar every session in a progressive overload fashion. Unfortunately though I had to stop since the infamation on front of my shoulder was still there and did not want to aggravate it.

So here I am, the tendonitis hasnt fully heal up, although its gotten better, and I had given it plenty of rest time, I take joint supps and also using a compex unit to relieve pain and running strength and hypertrophy programs too (wich surprinsgly actually had increased the strength and tone on my quads). During the last couple of months I have been doing some light upper body work, basically a lot of rear delt work and lower body (DL, RDL, lunges).

I would like to get an appointment with the doctor to see where I am at with the tendonitis issue and if its going to be there forever I would definitely like to resume proper upperbody training again, since the months I did not do anything I felt stupid weak considering how strong I felt while on the program, that was really disheartening.

Question is, with the numbers and background I provided what program would you guys recommend to me. I was thinking of doing something along the lines of a fullbody 3 times per week. Thanks for reading.

[Mutant1312]

Starting this program with a slight changes.

Upper A
________
Bench 3x5
Incline DB Press 3x8
Barbell Row 3x8
Lat Pulldowns 3x8
Drag Curls 3x10/Lateral Raises 3x12

Upper B
________
OHP 3x5
Flyes 3x10
Pull Ups 3x8
Pendlay Row 3x8
Skullcrushers 3x10/Reverse Flyes 3x12

Lower
______
Squat 3x5
Deadlift 3x3
Leg Extensions 2x15/ Leg Curls 2x15
Calves/Abs Superset

Mon-upper a, tue-karate, wed-karate, thur-upper b, fri-karate, sat-lower, sun-rest;
Thats gonna be my program. Changed the face pulls bc will get enough work from the rows and pulls. All muscles targeted
Deadlift 3x3 bc my ass is naturally big and if i start romanian deads its gonna be horrible

[WolfRose7]

Starting this program with a slight changes.

Upper A
________
Bench 3x5
Incline DB Press 3x8
Barbell Row 3x8
Lat Pulldowns 3x8
Drag Curls 3x10/Lateral Raises 3x12

Upper B
________
OHP 3x5
Flyes 3x10
Pull Ups 3x8
Pendlay Row 3x8
Skullcrushers 3x10/Reverse Flyes 3x12

Lower
______
Squat 3x5
Deadlift 3x3
Leg Extensions 2x15/ Leg Curls 2x15
Calves/Abs Superset

Mon-upper a, tue-karate, wed-karate, thur-upper b, fri-karate, sat-lower, sun-rest;
Thats gonna be my program. Changed the face pulls bc will get enough work from the rows and pulls. All muscles targeted
Deadlift 3x3 bc my ass is naturally big and if i start romanian deads its gonna be horrible

I'd suggest alternating weeks if you are going to do 3 days a week.

so one week is U/L/U the next is L/U/L

also you should still have face pulls. nothing you have is doing the same thing

[rpedrosb]

I'd suggest alternating weeks if you are going to do 3 days a week.

so one week is U/L/U the next is L/U/L

also you should still have face pulls. nothing you have is doing the same thing

What about the U/L/FB I mentioned above?

[WolfRose7]

Missed that. Yeah I like the Upper lower full body for that situation

[Mutant1312]

The Intermediate Upper/Lower

Upper A
Bench 3x5
Incline Bench 3x8
Lat Pulldowns 3x8 (any grip)
Bent Over Rows 3x8
Curls 3x10/Reverse Flies 3x12 Superset

Lower A
Squats 3x5
Weighted Back Extensions 3x8
Leg Press 3x10
Leg Curls 3x10
Ab work 3x15/Calf raises 3x12 Superset

Upper B
OHP 3x5
Flies 3x10
Pullups 3x8
Pendlay Rows 3x8
Face Pulls 3x12/Tricep pressdowns 3x10 Superset

Lower B
Front Squat 3x5
Romanian Deadlift 3x8
Leg Extensions 3x10
Leg Curls 3x10
Ab work 3x15/Calf Raises 3x12 Superset

You will be working out 2 consecutive days followed by a rest day and then 2 more consecutive days. Ex: Mon-Upper A, Tues-Lower A, Wed-Rest, Thur-Upper B, Fri-Lower B, Sat-Rest, Sun-Rest, Mon-Upper A…etc.

You’ll add 5 lbs to all of your upper body lifts* and 10lbs to all of your lower body lifts every 2 weeks. After 1 week increase the reps by 1 on every set. Ex: Instead of doing bench 3x5 you'll do 3x6. At the end of that week weight increases and the reps will drop back down to 3x5.

*The weight increases are halved between DB exercises. Use your best judgment on weight increases for isolation exercises. The progression may be too fast.


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can i change the pendlay row with seated rows bc i dont like pendlay rows?

[Lukeholme12]

I am on my second week of the Fierce 5 upper lower and today I failed on my last set of incline bench. What do I do now? I read the FAQ and it says if you fail the lift two days in a row then you decrease the weight %15, but with the upper/lower you don't do the lift two days in a row. Given this should I redo the same amount of weight next week?

[Farley1324]

I am on my second week of the Fierce 5 upper lower and today I failed on my last set of incline bench. What do I do now? I read the FAQ and it says if you fail the lift two days in a row then you decrease the weight %15, but with the upper/lower you don't do the lift two days in a row. Given this should I redo the same amount of weight next week?

Why is a 15 year old not on the novice routine?

You started too heavy. Drop weight.

[Lukeholme12]

I posted some things on the fourms and I was told to start on the upper/lower. I've been lifting for about a year and a half and have a 170 bench and 285 squat. For my age I'm 16 in a month if that counts for anything.

[Valeri12580]

Pendlay Rows-Any horizontal pull
-Can i change it with dumbell row?i think its horizontal pull?
and with what can i change Weighted Back Extensions and leg press?Because in my crappy fitness they are missing

[Imp81318]

I have the equipment I need to do them at home, but I have to go to the gym to do the compounds and I anticipate there being times I am short on time at the gym. Is there any specific reason not to do the isolation supersets at home, either an hour or two after I leave the gym or else the next day (otherwise an off day since I'm doing the beginner full body program)?

[tommy4life]

Before asking a question, read through the 205 pages. You might just find what you're looking for.

[MyEgoProblem]

can i change the pendlay row with seated rows bc i dont like pendlay rows?

Its on the first page...... In the FAQ labelled
"Substitutions" ..

Pendlay Rows-Any horizontal pull. T bar is a good example. Your arms need to be directly out in front of you for it to be considered a horizontal pull. BORs don't count.

[pugga01]

Hi all, After a year and a bit on SL (and 2 months on madcows) I have decided im looking for a change and keep coming back to Fierce Five (or vikings) Upper/Lower split. However I only have a squat rack, weight and benches (diy pully system with old climbing gear) so I am wondering what the alternatives for exercises like Leg press, lying leg curls, leg extensions and weighted back extensions might be as I dont have access to those machines. Any help would be greatly appreciated Cheers.

[WolfRose7]

Hi all, After a year and a bit on SL (and 2 months on madcows) I have decided im looking for a change and keep coming back to Fierce Five (or vikings) Upper/Lower split. However I only have a squat rack, weight and benches (diy pully system with old climbing gear) so I am wondering what the alternatives for exercises like Leg press, lying leg curls, leg extensions and weighted back extensions might be as I dont have access to those machines. Any help would be greatly appreciated Cheers.

My preference would probably be

Leg Press = Bb Hack Squats
Leg ext = Step ups
curls + back extensions = good morning or SLDL