"Fierce 5" Comprehensive Program List

[fluidZ]

I’m going to start this program this week. I was wondering why is this better than other programs in the body space app? If I’m ding everything right while cutting should I still add weight and I’m still a beginner in the gym

The stuff you see on the main bodybuilding website serves a purpose... most people are sitting on the couch, or on their computers all day, and anything that helps them get to the gym and be active promotes a healthy lifestyle... a lot of people have workout ADD, and honestly for beginners "you can throw a tampon at them at they will make gains" (-OmarIsuf)

It also drives sales of supplements, etc, which funds everything.


However, anyone that's semi-serious about drastically changing their bodies (which is NOT most people) come here, and get the good stuff that's been basic knowledge to most for the better part of 40 years...

[Mithos]

Quick and noobish question:
On U/L UpperB, which kind of flies does it refer to?
Flat, incline or raises?
Thanks

[fluidZ]

Quick and noobish question:
On U/L UpperB, which kind of flies dies it refer to?
Flat, incline or standing up?
Thanks

Not sure honestly.

I always did cable flies, but floor DB flies would be fine as well. (Bench flies can be dangerous)

[Weezy12345]

Been on the program for 2,5 months and seem some great gains (relatively speaking).

However I found that I never feel my side delts working during OHP and they are also not growing. Is it because its only at 40 pounds?

Does it make sense to add lateral raises, and if so what would be a good way to add them?


I also have the same problem with my hamstrings, I never feel them working during RDL or Squats.

[OmarCominYo]

However I found that I never feel my side delts working during OHP and they are also not growing. Is it because its only at 40 pounds? Does it make sense to add lateral raises, and if so what would be a good way to add them?

I also have the same problem with my hamstrings, I never feel them working during RDL or Squats.

1. Mine exploded since doing F5 (and I don't even ohp). Maybe 40lbs really is too light to notice anything but I guarantee that you will if you follow protocol, no need to add anything.
2. RDL without noticing it in the hammies? Impossible I would say. Like with the OHP, maybe just not enough weight atm. But definitely watch some videos on correct form. RDLs are amazing!
Regarding the squat, I also don't really feel them in the hams but much more in the quads. Maybe not enough hip drive???

edit: The DL sticky has a great introdution into RDLs if you haven't seen it: https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showt...hp?t=112127931

[Weezy12345]

1. Mine exploded since doing F5 (and I don't even ohp). Maybe 40lbs really is too light to notice anything but I guarantee that you will if you follow protocol, no need to add anything.
2. RDL without noticing it in the hammies? Impossible I would say. Like with the OHP, maybe just not enough weight atm. But definitely watch some videos on correct form. RDLs are amazing!
Regarding the squat, I also don't really feel them in the hams but much more in the quads. Maybe not enough hip drive???

Makes sense. How much do you OHP/RDL?

[OmarCominYo]

Makes sense. How much do you OHP/RDL?

Just came off a months vacation so current weights are lower but latest rdl was 3x8x75kg. No OHP, incline was at 3x5x65kg.

[Mithos]

For OHP don't lean back or round your back, hands just a couple thumbs apart from shoulders, chin tucked and as soon as you pass your forehead, allow elbows to naturally flare out a bit to engage side and rear delts. Eccentric movement should be really slow focusing on standing tall.
On RDL, don't worry about how low can you go, usually just bellow knee is enough, just push out your hips as you descend and the moment you feel the stretch, stop, hold and reverse movement starting by the hip

[Ben0090]

Makes sense. How much do you OHP/RDL?

My ohp is going up and also delts are growing fast on f5... I'm still weak and I've just done 42.5kg 3x5... keep gaining with god form and you'll notice the difference

[Voyager92]

I'm cutting on the Novice and got a few questions.

1. Is it ok not to increase weight at Front Squats as written and keep it at the same weight a bit longer to work on form? Or should I just reset?
2. My grip is slipping on the RDL. Any suitable grip strengthening exercise you'd recommend?
3. I feel my lower back after every workout. In a bad way, it's not really pain though but it definitely shouldn't be there. What could cause this? I can post form videos if needed.
4. I felt something in my right knee during Squats on Wednesday but I did 3 sets. Today on Friday I only did 2 sets of Front Squats because it was a little stronger. Any thoughts?
5. Would I miss out on anything if I swapped OHP with Incline Bench?

Weights in kg

Bodyweight: 82
Squat: 80
Bench: 75
RDL: 70
Pendlay Row: 55
OHP: 37,5

[fluidZ]

I'm cutting on the Novice and got a few questions.

1. Is it ok not to increase weight at Front Squats as written and keep it at the same weight a bit longer to work on form? Or should I just reset?

It won't hurt anything, but you would likely see faster results from just doing a reset. Your legs will appreciate the break, and you'll come back stronger and with better form.

2. My grip is slipping on the RDL. Any suitable grip strengthening exercise you'd recommend?

RDL does strengthen your grip, and your grip gets work from other exercises too (pulldown, row).

Davis suggests adding a couple sets of BB holds, for about 10-20 seconds (pick a weight you can only hold that long). I did (and still do) the BB holds twice a week, at the end of the workout, though you can do them directly after your RDL and rows if you like.

You can deadlift the bar, or grab it from the rack... then just SQUEEZE!!! I find it to be one of the more mentally challenging exercises... when you think your gonna drop it, you have to be like NOOOO!!! and somehow you hold it for a bit longer

Get some straps for your RDL, so you can keep progressing.

3. I feel my lower back after every workout. In a bad way, it's not really pain though but it definitely shouldn't be there. What could cause this? I can post form videos if needed.

It's probably from your squats, or rounding your back on the RDL. You have to keep a flat back for EVERY exercise. Definitely get us some videos. I suggest doing some basic dynamic stretches and warmups with light weight... bend over with a 45, hold it in one arm and side bend, etc.

4. I felt something in my right knee during Squats on Wednesday but I did 3 sets. Today on Friday I only did 2 sets of Front Squats because it was a little stronger. Any thoughts?

For me, I was hyperextending my knees.. You want to finish the rep with your legs "locked out" but, no so far that your leg is knee is slightly caved in.

It could also be from a dozen other things with your squat.

If it's getting worse, you should probably just take a week off after getting us a video.

5. Would I miss out on anything if I swapped OHP with Incline Bench?

Yes... lots of good reasons to stick with a lift... though it wouldn't kill you... Why exactly do you want to switch though?

[WolfRose7]

I'm cutting on the Novice and got a few questions.

1. Is it ok not to increase weight at Front Squats as written and keep it at the same weight a bit longer to work on form? Or should I just reset?
2. My grip is slipping on the RDL. Any suitable grip strengthening exercise you'd recommend?
3. I feel my lower back after every workout. In a bad way, it's not really pain though but it definitely shouldn't be there. What could cause this? I can post form videos if needed.
4. I felt something in my right knee during Squats on Wednesday but I did 3 sets. Today on Friday I only did 2 sets of Front Squats because it was a little stronger. Any thoughts?
5. Would I miss out on anything if I swapped OHP with Incline Bench?

Weights in kg

Bodyweight: 82
Squat: 80
Bench: 75
RDL: 70
Pendlay Row: 55
OHP: 37,5

1. Increase, if form slips below 80% good, or anything that could cause injury. Reset.

2. First strap up if needed, it's not a grip exercise. Second, anything with far bars, farmers walks with Dumbbells, Barbell side hold thingies. Pull ups (particularly on thick bars) And double overhand deadlift holds. (you can also do plate pinches and similar things but it's not as direct a carryover for your grip issue).

3. Squat form, RDL Form, Pendlay form. Video's definitely advisable

4. Could be anything, monitor in future. Make sure knees are tracking out in line with toes. And not shooting bag early either.

5. IMO Yes, don't do it. But I also don't OHP and can't talk.... xD. General shoulder health and balance OHP is probably better, and hence is in the OP

[fluidZ]

5. IMO Yes, don't do it. But I also don't OHP and can't talk.... xD. General shoulder health and balance OHP is probably better, and hence is in the OP

U did OHP on novice

[Voyager92]

Thanks for the replies, I'll post form videos.

For me, I was hyperextending my knees.. You want to finish the rep with your legs "locked out" but, no so far that your leg is knee is slightly caved in.

It could also be from a dozen other things with your squat.

I think it's in the bottom of the Squat in my case. When I push.

Yes... lots of good reasons to stick with a lift... though it wouldn't kill you... Why exactly do you want to switch though?

Poor Overhead mobility

2. First strap up if needed, it's not a grip exercise. Second, anything with far bars, farmers walks with Dumbbells, Barbell side hold thingies. Pull ups (particularly on thick bars) And double overhand deadlift holds. (you can also do plate pinches and similar things but it's not as direct a carryover for your grip issue).

What about a mixed or an underhand grip?

[fluidZ]

Thanks for the replies, I'll post form videos.

I think it's in the bottom of the Squat in my case. When I push.

That's where mine hurt too... the /cause/ of it though, was from the top. But again, tons of things going on that could be hurting you.

Also, no, don't do underhand for RDL... It's not fun... Just get the straps, but try to only use them on the sets you need them for... Some even go as far to only strap for the reps they need, but that is taking it a bit far IMO, and only a good option if you have no extra time for grip training.

[tdod101]

Pull up trouble and progress.

So in the F5 intermediate it has pullups for 3x8

I can't do 3x8 pullups but I can do 5 so far with perfect form, last week I did 4. So after I do my bodyweight pullups I move it to the assisted machine, with half my bodyweight counter weight and finish the rest of my sets and reps. I figure I'll keep doing as many bodyweight pullups as possible then move to the assisted machine, removing one plate every 2 weeks. Sooner or later I have to get to 3x8 bodyweight no?

Or should I just swap it for more lat pulldowns

[fluidZ]

Pull up trouble and progress.

So in the F5 intermediate it has pullups for 3x8

I can't do 3x8 pullups but I can do 5 so far with perfect form, last week I did 4. So after I do my bodyweight pullups I move it to the assisted machine, with half my bodyweight counter weight and finish the rest of my sets and reps. I figure I'll keep doing as many bodyweight pullups as possible then move to the assisted machine, removing one plate every 2 weeks. Sooner or later I have to get to 3x8 bodyweight no?

Or should I just swap it for more lat pulldowns

i like the machine idea... or just do more BW sets to make up volume.

[Voyager92]

That's where mine hurt too... the /cause/ of it though, was from the top. But again, tons of things going on that could be hurting you.

I also feel it squatting down.

Also, no, don't do underhand for RDL... It's not fun....Just get the straps, but try to only use them on the sets you need them for... Some even go as far to only strap for the reps they need, but that is taking it a bit far IMO, and only a good option if you have no extra time for grip training.

All right, thanks.

[Voyager92]

Would it be all right adding a fourth workout day with a rest day in between? Not permanently though.

[fluidZ]

Would it be all right adding a fourth workout day with a rest day in between? Not permanently though.

Only if it was for abs / calves / cardio... I've split off the abs / calves stuff into accessory days for months now (and added a few exercises, he doesn't care)... Still keeping volume managed, but it's a good excuse to get back in the gym on the off days if you're a rat like me.

absolutely don't run the main program 4 days! that's just crazy. you've got to have those two rest days if you want to have any hope of adding weight once things start getting heavy.

there's no point in rushing to a premature reset dude.

[Voyager92]

Only if it was for abs / calves / cardio... I've split off the abs / calves stuff into accessory days for months now (and added a few exercises, he doesn't care)... Still keeping volume managed, but it's a good excuse to get back in the gym on the off days if you're a rat like me.

absolutely don't run the main program 4 days! that's just crazy. you've got to have those two rest days if you want to have any hope of adding weight once things start getting heavy.

there's no point in rushing to a premature reset dude.

Ok thanks. I only did it once due to schedule.

[tdod101]

Fierce 5 intermediate kicking my butt! In a good way. I've never had a leg pump before, feels crazy.

I'm starting to see where my strong points are and where my weak points are, I think you start to realize it with time. My quads are definitely my weak link, my posterior chain is my strongest, hence why I'm so good at deadlifts.

[Voyager92]

Here are the form videos

[ThePoP]

Hi everyone!

I am gym beginner, with some tiny experience from before, and i plan to do cutting first. I really like this workout plan and im not sure should i start with it right now while cutting (carb cycling), or should i save it for later, while doing bulk, so i would have full benefit from it?

[fluidZ]

Hi everyone!

I am gym beginner, with some tiny experience from before, and i plan to do cutting first. I really like this workout plan and im not sure should i start with it right now while cutting (carb cycling), or should i save it for later, while doing bulk, so i would have full benefit from it?

sup dude..

if you're just starting out, you really shouldn't be trying any fancy diet stuff (that may or may not have any useful benefits to you). There's plenty of room in cutting macros to get enough carbs... you should have plenty of energy so long as you're smart about eating before you workout.


Also, you can't 'save' or 'waste' gainsz... Your muscles are going to grow given stimulation. There is no magical period where your muscles "remember" the start date of when they first get activated, then months later are like "NOTHANKSZ iTs Bin 2 LONG KTHXBIE!!"


Your first bulk is going to be magical, regardless of how long your first cut is, because your body will be in an anabolic state.


Welcome on board!

[fluidZ]

Here are the form videos

Ok, so disclaimer, take everything I say as potentially being dead wrong, because I'm still in the learning phase myself... but I'm never gonna get better myself if I don't take a stab at these reviews once in a while.


But, it looks to me like your knees are hyperextended at the top of the lift, like I said... I could be wrong, again, I'm still learning, but your leg looks to me like it's bowing in backwards.

Call me crazy, but look at the difference between the squat, which is taken mid session, directly after a rep, and here you are standing after walkout, before your first rep of FS... maybe it's just the cam angle, but to me it seems pretty clear that your legs are straighter on the bottom pic, and hyperextended on the top pic.





Give yourself the tiniest bend in your knees... not to where you're still under tension from the weight--you still want to be standing up straight and at the rest position--but just give your knees that bit of leeway. I would do a reset *now* on both movements, practicing not hyperextending knees... This was 100% the issue with my squats last year that was giving me knee pain.. it's a relatively quick fix honestly, and at least for me was a pretty easy cue / pattern to incorporate.



Also, I don't think buttwink is as prevalent as people make out, in my noob opinion of course, but you look like you have some good butt wink going on... may need to widen your stance up a bit, go a bit higher, or work on your flexibility...

Double check teh above with someone that actually knows how to coach the squat though.. Post up in the Exercise forum if nobody else responds here. This is a good video IMO that shows an acceptable range of posterior tilt:





Pendlays looked fuarking good, except you did lose balance on that first rep (I still do sometimes too haha)... just make sure you are tapping your chest with the bar to ensure 100%.. it looks to me like you're getting close a to reset, with the explosiveness fading out kinda quick...

Arms could be a little bit straighter down to the floor, but overall pretty nice dude.

[Richyy95]

Beginning my cut this week whilst still on Fierce 5, my only concern is my chest still doesn't look amazing, so any harm in extra chest sessions whilst cutting and leading up to the hols?

[fluidZ]

Beginning my cut this week whilst still on Fierce 5, my only concern is my chest still doesn't look amazing, so any harm in extra chest sessions whilst cutting and leading up to the hols?

More chest work isn't going to give you a bigger chest... a bigger bench press is going to give you a bigger chest. When you can't keep adding weight to bench anymore on this program, that's when you add in more exercises, but then only do chest twice a week (see the U/L program).

If you're feeling neurotic about it though, you can switch the OHP up to a high-incline bench press... just be ready to stall out a bit faster on your regular bench. Cutting sucks too, so make sure you are going to half-weight or adding weight only every-other week after your first stall on cut.


Also, WHERE THE HELL IS YOUR LOG M8888888???

[tdod101]

A question about failing a main lift on the intermediate part of the program.

Today I did bench 3x5 I failed on my last set. I know the protocol says to deload 10% if you fail the lift twice in a row, but my question is when I go to do bench for the second time next week, do I do 3x6 or 3x5 again? Before deloading if I fail.

[daawhitty]

A question about failing a main lift on the intermediate part of the program.

Today I did bench 3x5 I failed on my last set. I know the protocol says to deload 10% if you fail the lift twice in a row, but my question is when I go to do bench for the second time next week, do I do 3x6 or 3x5 again? Before deloading if I fail.

It depends which set/sets you failed. Say you went 5/5/4 then you should be ok if recovered to try for 6/6/6 but if you went 4/3/3 then it’s very unlikely you could get 6 across.

Its your call - if you think a 6 would cause a drop rep in set 3 then just settle for 3 x 5 and try 3 x 6 next week.