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  1. #1
    Registered User sdrik's Avatar
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    Creatine and hair loss

    "DHT: The levels of DHT increased by 56% after 7 days of creatine loading and remained 40% above baseline after 14 days maintenance (significant)"

    "DHT (dihydrotestosterone) is male hormone formed in the hair follicles, testes, prostate and adrenal glands."

    what you think?
    Do i have to stop using ceatine?
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    MANwhore mtpaquette's Avatar
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    Personal preference. Just take 3-5g a day there is no reason to load. I believe in that study they were taking like 20-25g a day. Just stick with 3-5g and monitor your hair as whether it is worth it or not. I take 5g a day and don't have any problems.
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    Registered User sdrik's Avatar
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    i took 5grams per day for a month and i saw that my hair start shedding .
    because that i checked if the creatine is the reason.

    (sorry about my bad english).
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    Originally Posted by sdrik View Post
    "DHT: The levels of DHT increased by 56% after 7 days of creatine loading and remained 40% above baseline after 14 days maintenance (significant)"

    "DHT (dihydrotestosterone) is male hormone formed in the hair follicles, testes, prostate and adrenal glands."

    what you think?
    Do i have to stop using ceatine?
    what you have to do, is stop loading creatine if thats what you are doing.

    Maybe stop taking creatine and see if the condition of your hair improves. Then just decide whether you can live it whatever effect it has on your body, and if you cant then just stop taking it.
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    Registered User sdrik's Avatar
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    so its true?
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    Registered User sdrik's Avatar
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    someone?
    i need currect answer please!
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    If you find that you are experiencing hair loss symptoms while taking 3-5 grams of creatine a day, then stop taking it and see if symptoms continue. And do not load creatine. No need for it. Thats the best answer I can give you. I would say most do not experience hair loss while taking creatine. But it is not unheard of either.
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    Must Unify Korea 나는 한국 통합 KimJong-il's Avatar
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    This may sound slightly strange, but there is a chance that you only noticed hair shedding that you always shed but havent really payed attention to in the past. You will shed some 125+ hairs off your scalp on a daily basis.

    Odd are creatine is not contributing to your hair shedding, although its possible to convince yourself that it is.
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    Originally Posted by KimJong-il View Post
    This may sound slightly strange, but there is a chance that you only noticed hair shedding that you always shed but havent really payed attention to in the past. You will shed some 125+ hairs off your scalp on a daily basis.

    Odd are creatine is not contributing to your hair shedding, although its possible to convince yourself that it is.
    While this is true that he might just have noticed it more.. Creatine has been proven in studies to be directly correlated with a raise in DHT, which can result in hairloss. So it is possible that he is one of the unfortunate few that taking creatine results in hairloss. One of my buddies every time he tries to touches creatine he has an increase of hairloss, so he won't take any form of creatine anymore.
    Supplement a good diet: don't diet on supplements.

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    Disclaimer: The statement above reflects that of my own opinion & in no way that of MAN Sports. Our products are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease.

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    Originally Posted by mtpaquette View Post
    While this is true that he might just have noticed it more.. Creatine has been proven in studies to be directly correlated with a raise in DHT, which can result in hairloss. So it is possible that he is one of the unfortunate few that taking creatine results in hairloss. One of my buddies every time he tries to touches creatine he has an increase of hairloss, so he won't take any form of creatine anymore.
    I agree with you as well. I have seen the study in the past. Hair loss is also dependent on other factors than just a raise in DHT. I was just giving an alternative response. Its also possible that if you believe that you will lose hair while taking creatine, that you will in fact lose hair. The mind amazes me.
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  11. #11
    Registered User Versafanatic's Avatar
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    Sorry if my answer is too simple but if your hair is falling out when you take creatine and you like your hair then stop taking creatine. Creatine is not an essential substance needed to make progress towards your fitness goals.
    Last edited by Versafanatic; 10-30-2011 at 06:29 PM.
    Your results are only as serious as you are.
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  12. #12
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    Look into purchasing some finasteride (Propecia is the brand name). They sell it REAL cheap overseas and you can have it shipped here in the U.S. within 2-3 weeks. I am pretty sure it blocks about 30% of test to DHT conversion. I decided to begin using it to slow down or hopefully stop my hairloss, as I know that it will only get worse from here on out with my family's genetics.

    Good luck!
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  13. #13
    MANwhore mtpaquette's Avatar
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    "PROSCAR (finasteride), a synthetic 4-azasteroid compound, is a specific inhibitor of steroid Type II 5α-reductase, an intracellular enzyme that converts the androgen testosterone into 5α-dihydrotestosterone (DHT).

    Finasteride is 4-azaandrost-1-ene-17-carboxamide, N-(1,1-dimethylethyl)-3-oxo-,(5α,17β)-. The empirical formula of finasteride is C23H36N2O2 and its molecular weight is 372.55. Its structural formula is:

    PROSCAR (finasteride) Structural Formula Illustration

    Finasteride is a white crystalline powder with a melting point near 250C. It is freely soluble in chloroform and in lower alcohol solvents, but is practically insoluble in water.

    PROSCAR (finasteride) tablets for oral administration are film-coated tablets that contain 5 mg of finasteride and the following inactive ingredients: hydrous lactose, microcrystalline cellulose, pregelatinized starch, sodium starch glycolate, hydroxypropyl cellulose LF, hydroxypropyl methylcellulose, titanium dioxide, magnesium stearate, talc, docusate sodium, FD&C Blue 2 aluminum lake and yellow iron oxide.
    What are the possible side effects of finasteride (Propecia, Proscar)?

    Get emergency medical help if you have any of these signs of an allergic reaction: hives; difficulty breathing; swelling of your face, lips, tongue, or throat.

    Call your doctor at once if you notice any breast lumps, pain, nipple discharge, or other breast changes. These may be signs of male breast cancer.

    Less serious side effects may include:

    * feeling like you might pass out;
    * swelling in your hands or feet;
    * pain in the testicles;
    * impotence, loss of interest in sex, or...


    Read All Potential Side Effects and See Pictures of Proscar
    What are the precautions when taking finasteride (Proscar)?

    Before taking finasteride, tell your doctor or pharmacist if you are allergic to it; or if you have any other allergies. This product may contain inactive ingredients, which can cause allergic reactions or other problems. Talk to your pharmacist for more details.

    Before using this medication, tell your doctor or pharmacist your medical history, especially of: liver disease, prostate cancer, infections, urinary problems.

    Finasteride should not be used in children.

    The drug can be absorbed through the skin. If the film coating of the tablet has been broken or the tablet crushed, it should not be handled by a woman who is pregnant or planning to become pregnant. Exposing a developing male infant to finasteride can result in abnormalities of the...

    Read All Potential Precautions of Proscar

    Last reviewed on RxList: 6/20/2011
    This monograph has been modified to include the generic and brand name in many instances."
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  14. #14
    Registered User sdrik's Avatar
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    somone can explain me in Simple english please?



    this is UCLA unit respone to this article:

    Creatine Supplementation and DHT:T Ratio in Male Rugby Players
    Green, Gary MD

    Author Information
    David Geffen School of Medicine at UCLA, Los Angeles, California.
    Dear Editor-in-Chief:

    I read with great interest the article on creatine monohydrate supplementation affecting dihydrotestosterone to testosterone ratios in rugby players.1 The authors are to be commended for attempting to determine the mechanism of action of creatine supplementation on potential muscle growth. However, there are a few questions that must be answered before their results can be considered. In their methods section, they do not mention the source of the supplement given or whether the supplement was independently tested before it was given to the subjects. If the latter was not done, then the results of the study are in serious doubt.

    Since the passage of the 1994 Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act, the dietary supplement industry has exploded worldwide with annual sales of $24 billion in the United States alone. It is estimated that sports supplements account for $2.5 billion of that total.2 In addition to an increase in the sales, there has been an increase in contamination of dietary supplements with a variety of compounds. This has included pharmaceuticals such as testosterone, benzodiazepines, powerful diuretics, and potent stimulants. Several studies have been conducted demonstrating this phenomenon, and supplement companies frequently obtain their raw materials from countries such as China where the manufacturing regulations are lax. Unfortunately, this adulteration is not confined to obvious products that claim to increase testosterone, but even innocuous products such as multivitamins have been found to contain androgenic substances.3 A recent study found that creatine contaminated with 0.00005% 19-norandrostenedione could result in a positive urine test for nandrolone.4 In my experience, there can be significant intralot variation and intrabottle variation. Lastly, consumer studies have demonstrated that dietary supplements frequently do not contain the amount of active ingredients listed on the labels.

    Owing to the above facts, it is imperative that any research study involving dietary supplements needs to have the materials independently verified before being used in a study. I would recommend that the Journal adopt a policy not to accept any supplement study without this type of verification. There are now several organizations in the United States that will conduct a thorough analysis of a company and their products and certify that they do not contain any prohibited substances. This policy would be similar to medical journals insisting on proper human subject committee approval as a condition for publication.

    The authors need to respond if this had in fact been conducted, otherwise the contamination with androgenic compounds could seriously skew the results. This is one possible explanation as to why other similar studies have not produced the same results as the current study. In addition, the authors do not list the time of day that the study was conducted. Many hormones, including testosterone, have variations throughout the day and unless the subjects were all tested at the same time of day, this could alter the results. The authors also need to declare the source of the supplement and any conflict of interest from a company providing the creatine and/or funding the study.

    It would also be helpful if the authors clarified their experimental design with respect to their use of a placebo. Typically, placebo refers to an inactive substance or preparation used as a control in an experiment or test to determine the effectiveness of a medicinal drug. I would argue that 50 grams of glucose is not inactive and certainly can affect exercise. If the authors more properly were using the glucose as a control for the creatine, then I would have expected them to use 25 g/d as a loading dose and for maintenance instead of a 50 g loading dose and 30g/d during maintenance. A rationale for this methodology would be welcome.

    Lastly, the authors use a curious phrase in their introduction in which they state that creatine is a popular ergogenic and androgenic [sic] aid.1 An androgen is typically considered to be any substance that promotes male characteristics. I am not aware of any data demonstrating that creatine promotes the development of male secondary sexual characteristics.

    Answers to the above questions would be helpful in allowing the readers to properly assess this article.

    Gary Green, MD

    David Geffen School of Medicine at UCLA, Los Angeles, California
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  15. #15
    Registered User sdrik's Avatar
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    and the researchers response:

    Reply
    Myburgh, Kathryn H PhD; van der Merwe, Johann MBChB; Brooks, Naomi E PhD

    Author Information
    Department of Physiological Sciences, Stellenbosch University, Stellenbosch, South Africa.
    Reply:

    We welcome the comments of Prof Green on our article, which focuses on testing the hypothesis that one mechanism for an effect of creatine supplementation on muscle is a conversion of testosterone to its more bioactive metabolite dihydrotestosterone (DHT).1 In addition to questions related specifically to our study, Prof Green has used this forum to open a discussion on the serious topic of potential contamination of nutritional supplements that are used for research purposes.2 In short, he suggests that researchers in this field should be responsible for having the components of the supplements to be used in their studies verified in depth and independently. He further suggests that if this is not done, this journal should not accept the manuscript for publication.

    We will present details of the supplement and supplement testing and answer the specific questions before contributing to the broader discussion. We will debate whether the responsibility lies with the researchers or with the accredited laboratories and the additional structures that are in place to accredit and monitor those laboratories.

    There was no conflict of interest for any of the authors (no personal financial gain at the time of the study and before or after the study was completed; no appointment in any advisory capacity). The study was financed independently from any industry contract or donation, whether financial or in kind. If this was not the case, such acknowledgment would have been provided at the end of the discussion section. Prof Green makes a good point that such information should be stated in print with the article.

    However, for the purposes of discussion, it should be added here that interaction with industry and use of their commercial product in research does not necessarily reflect conflict of interest. Indeed, relevance of academic endeavor requires bidirectional communication between the producers of knowledge and those who commercialize the knowledge. Contract research does not imply that industry will have an influence on the research results. Typically, academic institutions require legal documentation to be in place before research of contractual nature, and typically, such a document will include a short specified period (eg, 6-12 months) during which results remain unpublished if they do not reflect the desired result from the point of view of the commercial entity, with complete academic freedom thereafter.

    For our study, sufficient supplement was purchased at the outset to ensure that the same batch would be used for the entire study. The batch number and the expiry date were provided. The batch was analyzed by Quotient Bioresearch Ltd's subsidiary company, HFL Sports Science Inc (Fordham, Cambridgeshire, United Kingdom). It owns 2 dedicated testing laboratories with extensive testing capability far beyond the testing of sports supplements. This relationship was clearly stated. Quotient Bioresearch Testing Laboratory is certified by the United Kingdom Accreditation Service (UKAS).3 Samples from early, mid, and end of the batch were analyzed, and results reported no difference within the batch. The testing included gas chromatography mass spectrometry and liquid chromatography mass spectrometry screens for 25 different substances, either androgenic steroids or related compounds, or stimulants. None were detected with a lower limit of detection of 10 ng/g (compared with the publication reporting 50 ng/g 19-norandrostenedione contamination, as mentioned by Prof Green). Such information is available to researchers but not always with retail purchase of supplements. The information can be requested from source.

    Prof Green asserts that only inert substances should be referred to as a placebo. However, a placebo may be “an inert or innocuous substance used especially in controlled experiments testing the efficacy of another substance.”4 Because creatine is frequently ingested with carbohydrate, it would be appropriate to test its efficacy over and above any possible effect of the other components of the typical supplementation regimen, in which case, these components would be considered innocuous relative to the substance being tested. Other studies investigating the effects of creatine supplementation have also used carbohydrate as their control for creatine and considered, as we have, that it was proper to call it the placebo.5-8 The use of carbohydrate as a placebo is not limited to studies testing the effect of creatine.9 In these studies, the outcome measurements have varied according to the specific study aims and, in some cases, included intramuscular effects. In the case of our study, the primary aim was to test the efficacy of a creatine supplement on testosterone conversion to DHT, both measured in serum samples. The effect of exercise was not considered. The quantity of placebo we provided was primarily practical. The equivalent number of capsules needed to be taken when on the creatine supplement or on the placebo. The quantity of carbohydrate we used during loading did not differ dramatically from other studies in which the quantity of carbohydrate was also not equivalent but rather isocaloric.10

    We used the phrase “a popular ergogenic and androgenic [sic] aid” on one occasion in the introduction of our article.1 We acknowledge that the phrase could be presented as “a popular ergogenic aid with some purported androgenic properties.” The aim of our study was to determine if there was a particular effect of creatine supplementation on a reaction in a steroid hormone pathway that would result in greater presence of a more potent androgen, DHT. Several studies refer to DHT as androgenic while focusing on effects other than secondary sexual characteristics.11,12 Lee et al 11 reported the ability of DHT to reduce H2O2-induced reactive oxygen species production. The authors first introduced the hormone to the readers, and we quote: “Among androgenic hormones, dihydrotestosterone (DHT) is generated by a 5[alpha]-reduction of testosterone. Unlike testosterone, DHT cannot be aromatized to estradiol, therefore DHT is considered a pure androgenic steroid.”11 Substances that block or reduce the function of 5-alpha-reductase are considered “antiandrogenic” (eg, Flores et al 13; Liu et al 14). In one of these examples, fatty acids (albeit in vitro) were considered antiandrogenic due to their ability to reduce the activity of this enzyme.14 Substances that stimulate 5-alpha-reductase can be considered “androgenic.”

    All subjects were resident at the same Rugby Institute and were tested between 7.00 and 8.00 hours on each occasion, before any training. There was no deviation from this protocol for any subject.

    We retrospectively had a sample of the remaining supplement (the same batch; in storage since the completion of the study) analyzed for content of creatine. The analysis was undertaken by J Muller Laboratories (Pty) Ltd, accredited by the South African National Accreditation System.15 Analysis (high-performance liquid chromatography with variable wavelength detector, combined with analysis of nitrogen, ash, and water content of the sample) indicated that the sample contained 89.55% creatine monohydrate with an additional moisture content of 9.3%. Therefore, the total of the powder accounted for by creatine monohydrate and water was 98.85% with an additional 0.1% accounted for by creatinine. An ultraviolet scan between the wavelengths of 200 and 360 nm revealed no interferences except for creatinine. Considering that the supplement had been stored for a considerable time since the study was done, one can understand that the moisture content may not have been at that level originally.

    Getting back to the more wide-reaching debate on the responsibility for testing the supplements used in research studies for potential contaminants, Prof Green mentions that there are organizations that will certify a company after testing their supplements independently. As stated above, the supplement we used was tested in a UKAS certified laboratory. UKAS is the only national body recognized by the UK government for the purposes of accrediting testing laboratories and calibrating laboratories, as well as accrediting the bodies entrusted with certification and inspection. The UK Accreditation System is a signatory to the European cooperation for Accreditation and uses international standards. In this system, testing laboratories are accredited, and to standardize across different testing laboratories, calibrating laboratories are also certified. Further checks are in place because certification is dependent on both test results and regular inspection. A list of accredited laboratories is accessible to the public and also contains the names of laboratories removed from the list, presumably due to failure in one aspect or another of the rigorous procedure.

    What level of systematic consideration and action should be expected from the researchers regardless of any requirements laid down by the possible publishing journal? We argue that if the supplement is purchased from a company that is able to supply verifiable component analysis and proof of regular inspection and certification by an internationally recognized system that has multiple levels of control and no seals have been broken, their trust is justified. There would be no further need for the researcher to submit samples for analysis.

    It will require a wider academic debate to discuss how supplements should be tested, for example, if they are imported in bulk format and repackaged outside of the original controlled environment. A laboratory that operates under the ethical code required for academic research could also be considered a credible analysis facility if independent of the laboratory performing the research. Such a laboratory often does not submit to national accreditation but still follows good scientific practice, achieving results worthy of publication in the best journals in their field.

    Good scientific practice, scientific integrity, and integrity of the peer-review process contribute to methodical consideration of results before publication. Results are not simply assumed to be correct and acceptable. Interpretation and discussion within the framework of current knowledge and theories or establishment of new theories are equally subjected to review. All published results are subject to verification by other researchers and to advances in understanding, which may render them interpretable in a different way. No declarations can influence this process.

    What guidelines should a journal present to potential authors in this regard? If guidelines are presented, is it necessary to require a declaration? Is a declaration relevant if no guidelines have been presented? Who should be tasked to contribute to the development of such guidelines or declaration statements? How extensively should this be debated? Will there be a requirement for oversight of the declaration at the institutional level? These questions cannot be answered by the authors of a single publication.

    Prof Green raises a point to which we do not wish to respond: that the proposed declaration would be analogous to the declaration of ethical approval that is required by medical journals.

    Kathryn H. Myburgh, PhD

    Johann van der Merwe, MBChB

    Naomi E. Brooks, PhD
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