Cost No Object Machines and Free Weights, the Best of the Best

[DedRepublic]

Been lurking this thread for a while. In the market for an Isolateral Plate Loaded seated row. I have used the Hammer Strength Seated Row and Life Fitness Signature Series Seated Row. Currently getting quotes on both. Also have quotes on legend Fitness Seated Row and have a great opportunity on a used Power Lift Seated row at the moment...now I see talk of a Panata Brand...so I just thought I'd ask the gurus here. What is your favorite Iso Lateral Plated Loaded Seated Row?

[a7stringkilla]

Maybe it was just the angle of the video or something, but the over pronation of the hands and the way the machine threw his Elbows upward in the stretched position seemed like it could be very uncomfortable. Just mimicking that movement felt awkward, cant imaging doing it under load. Again though, could have been a bad camera angle.

[HealthNutMD]

What page is the latest version of the list?

I'm trying to find it...

It is due for an update. I plan on updating it and doing a review of the "one-hit wonders" and "best of the best of the best" sometime in July.

[HealthNutMD]

Been lurking this thread for a while. In the market for an Isolateral Plate Loaded seated row. I have used the Hammer Strength Seated Row and Life Fitness Signature Series Seated Row. Currently getting quotes on both. Also have quotes on legend Fitness Seated Row and have a great opportunity on a used Power Lift Seated row at the moment...now I see talk of a Panata Brand...so I just thought I'd ask the gurus here. What is your favorite Iso Lateral Plated Loaded Seated Row?

In terms of best of the best of the best:

#1) Avenger plate loaded row. It is not iso-lateral, but it is the #1 overall best mid row on the market. WHW *and* BOBOB.

#2) I'm still holding on to the Hammer Mid Row with the Chest Pad modification as my number 2. The only other contenders for the number 2 position would be the Rogers Athletic Pendulum 3 way row, or possibly the new Panatta POWER ROW. But this is a new piece and nobody has demoed it yet.

By the way, the Life Fitness Pro signature mid row is not quite as good as the Hammer Mid Row. Those Losers can't even clone the Hammer Mid row, even though they own and Sell Hammer Strength. The Life Fitness Signature line is not as good as the Hammer line. Leave it to a bunch of pencil pushing geeks who design for life fitness to make a bunch of garbage.

The Pro Signature version has about 1 - 2 inches less pre-stretch and a slightly different angle of the handles.


The shame is that all of the new LA FITNESS are using MATRIX and Life Fitness Signature Plate load... HORRIBLE. LA Fitness is going the wrog direction. The newest clubs use GARBAGE Matrix and LIFE FITNESS. I went to the new club in Plantation and also Pompano Beach... NEW!! and HORRIBLE!!!



The three Panatta rows are:

LOW ROW:

The Low row is BOBOB in regards to LOW ROW. It just depends if you want a low row. If you like the Hammer Low Row, consider this Panatta a nice upgrade.





POWER ROW:

On 'paper' and in video, this iso-lateral design looks amazing. Foot bar for pre-stretch. Better motion path (similar to the Avenger Row in that sense). Only a demo would let me know if this would be superior to the Hammer mid row (with chest pad mod of course)





SUPER ROW:

(3 year ago, when I demoed, I felt the Hammer with chest pad mod was superior. I will see what revisions have been made when I visit)

[Domicron]

By the way, the Life Fitness Pro signature mid row is not quite as good as the Hammer Mid Row. Those Losers can't even clone the Hammer Mid row, even though they own and Sell Hammer Strength. The Life Fitness Signature line is not as good as the Hammer line. Leave it to a bunch of pencil pushing geeks who design for life fitness to make a bunch of garbage.

The Pro Signature version has about 1 - 2 inches less pre-stretch and a slightly different angle of the handles.


The shame is that all of the new LA FITNESS are using MATRIX and Life Fitness Signature Plate load... HORRIBLE. LA Fitness is going the wrog direction. The newest clubs use GARBAGE Matrix and LIFE FITNESS. I went to the new club in Plantation and also Pompano Beach... NEW!! and HORRIBLE!!!

okay, but now tell me how you really feel...

[DedRepublic]

In terms of best of the best of the best:

#1) Avenger plate loaded row. It is not iso-lateral, but it is the #1 overall best mid row on the market. WHW *and* BOBOB.

#2) I'm still holding on to the Hammer Mid Row with the Chest Pad modification as my number 2. The only other contenders for the number 2 position would be the Rogers Athletic Pendulum 3 way row, or possibly the new Panatta POWER ROW. But this is a new piece and nobody has demoed it yet.

Hey thanks for taking the time to respond....it means a lot. When I get enough cool points to post pics I'll share my setup with you guys...ha ha. Looks like Hammer Mid Row is tried and true then...I am interested in the Chest Pad modification you are talking about. Is this something I can specify on the order?

Just looked at the Roger's 3 way...I can't get over that forward lean...just seems like I'd want a stable foot placement. Of the Roger's 3-Way, and the Hammer Mid Row...which one would you say is more versatile? also if you absolutley had to choose between the two...which one would you choose?

[edit after seeing opinion on Life Fitness Signature Row...thanks bud!!!]

[DedRepublic]

In terms of best of the best of the best:

The three Panatta rows are:

LOW ROW:

The Low row is BOBOB in regards to LOW ROW. It just depends if you want a low row. If you like the Hammer Low Row, consider this Panatta a nice upgrade.


POWER ROW:

On 'paper' and in video, this iso-lateral design looks amazing. Foot bar for pre-stretch. Better motion path (similar to the Avenger Row in that sense). Only a demo would let me know if this would be superior to the Hammer mid row (with chest pad mod of course)


SUPER ROW:

(3 year ago, when I demoed, I felt the Hammer with chest pad mod was superior. I will see what revisions have been made when I visit)

All those look great. I'm a HUGE fan of the Hammer Strength Low Row...not above one at some other time....I stand back and lean in and do single arm pulls on the hammer low row....love it.

[a7stringkilla]

One row that doesnt get much attention, is the selectorized Magnum Biangular with the fixed grips. That thing is awesome! Its not iso-lateral, but I never do 1 arm machine rows anyway, so it makes no difference to me.

[HealthNutMD]

Hey thanks for taking the time to respond....it means a lot. When I get enough cool points to post pics I'll share my setup with you guys...ha ha. Looks like Hammer Mid Row is tried and true then...I am interested in the Chest Pad modification you are talking about. Is this something I can specify on the order?

Just looked at the Roger's 3 way...I can't get over that forward lean...just seems like I'd want a stable foot placement. Of the Roger's 3-Way, and the Hammer Mid Row...which one would you say is more versatile? also if you absolutely had to choose between the two...which one would you choose?

[edit after seeing opinion on Life Fitness Signature Row...thanks bud!!!]

I still have the Hammer Mid Row (with chest pad modification), so that should give you the answer. You can ask full circle padding, or any pad replacement place for a chest pad replacement, but with 4 inches extra of wood backing, and extra thick foam... You just want to add a total of 4 inches to the thickness, which can be done with an extra 3 inches of wood and an extra layer of 1 inch foam, or some combination like that.

I would like to play with the Pendulum 3 way row a little more. I was only able to evaluate it one day at the USC gym in LA.

Will see if the newest Panatta rows can de-throne the Hammer, won't know until I spend some time with them.

[2MoreRepz]

Not trying to clog this thread up with items for sale--I know certain items are posted in here from time to time hoping to reach members of this thread.

To anyone that is interested send me a PM. I am selling my original Pendulum Hip Press, last model made--and my original Pendulum Squat Pro, one of the first models made--and my Rogers Athletic Squat Pro.

[bigfeather]

http://m.kijiji.ca/exercise-equipmen...=1461082807442

http://m.kijiji.ca/exercise-equipmen...=1461082807442

Just putting this up that's all...

[drepublic]

Just putting this up that's all...

Oh man...thanks for these links. Love your videos by the way. Seem to come across many of them on my quest for an isolateral mid row machine. Do you have an opinion on the Panatta Mid Row versus Hammer Mid Row?

[bigfeather]

Oh man...thanks for these links. Love your videos by the way. Seem to come across many of them on my quest for an isolateral mid row machine. Do you have an opinion on the Panatta Mid Row versus Hammer Mid Row?

Thank you.. Yes if you are searching for a machine you will definitely see me in images lol.. Chris or healthnutmd could very well be familiar with both rows... Hard to improve upon a standard small, plate loaded mid row, one could be smother perhaps better bearing, but this is not truly significant as far as design to create tension with just the right fall away is concerned... Ask Chris

[HealthNutMD]

Someone from the first and second Panatta order asked me to post pics for them. I have to say, The Ruby is so beautiful... just beautiful.

[Greybird2]

HealthnutMD. Where at in Plantation? I live near LA fitness in Davie, just off Sheridan. Got a free week. They have some of the worst Life Fitness machines ever. I have never seen machines with so many cables. We did not even use up the week.. The YouFits around here have all Cybex VR3 machines that don't really even seem suitable for home use. I do like the Iron Grip weights though. I miss the old Gold's gyms.. Maybe you should consider opening a high end gym that costs more than 10/month(YouFit, Planet Fitness) to keep out the riffraff. Maybe 100/month. Private/members only type thing to keep your stuff from being destroyed. And of course, all pretty, well built females work out for free....(Just think how many of your great machine picks you could get in 15-20,000 sq. ft.).

[HealthNutMD]

HealthnutMD. Where at in Plantation? I live near LA fitness in Davie, just off Sheridan. Got a free week. They have some of the worst Life Fitness machines ever. I have never seen machines with so many cables. We did not even use up the week.. The YouFits around here have all Cybex VR3 machines that don't really even seem suitable for home use. I do like the Iron Grip weights though. I miss the old Gold's gyms.. Maybe you should consider opening a high end gym that costs more than 10/month(YouFit, Planet Fitness) to keep out the riffraff. Maybe 100/month. Private/members only type thing to keep your stuff from being destroyed. And of course, all pretty, well built females work out for free....(Just think how many of your great machine picks you could get in 15-20,000 sq. ft.).

Yes, the new one that opened in Plantation. Also, the new one that opened a couple weeks ago in Pompano Beach... The newer the LA Fitness, the worse the machine selections. They are obviously following the least expensive method possible with those exclusivity contracts. Complete line of Life Fitness, a few Hammer pieces (only aout 3), a bunch of the Life Fitness Signature Plate loaded, and a bunch of Matrix garbage. absolutely pathetic... They couldn't give me a free membership.

It is no wonder many people hate machines. These pathetic pieces of garbage from Life Fitness and Matrix ruin the reputation of machines.

Yes the You Fit does the same exclusivity deal with Cybex

There is a chain in California that has an exclusivity deal with Star Trac.

Terrible....


Yes, I'd love to open a new gym with all of the machines on the cost no object list, but it would take about $500,000-600,000 to get all the machines I would want.... Or ... I'd have to use all the ones I have now. I'd love to do it one way or the other, but the profit margins seem slim. I'm not in a mode where I feel like breaking even for that huge amount of effort. That being said, I really would love to do just that.

[Greybird2]

You are probably too young, but, 2 of the best gyms I used to belong to down here was Golds Gym in Sunrise,Then a new Golds Gym in Pembroke Pines opened in 1990. They both closed in 2000. I cant remember who bought them out. The first thing that happened was half the equipment went away. That's when I quit and started my home gym.

[HealthNutMD]

You are probably too young, but, 2 of the best gyms I used to belong to down here was Golds Gym in Sunrise,Then a new Golds Gym in Pembroke Pines opened in 1990. They both closed in 2000. I cant remember who bought them out. The first thing that happened was half the equipment went away. That's when I quit and started my home gym.

Its unbelievable. Miami and San Francisco... two major cities, both known for fitness. Worse gyms I have ever seen. Funny part is Bakersfield California had a great chain of gyms.

A gym just opened in Wynnewood, near the design district. Iron addicts Gym, and Independent gym... They had about 4 good machines, the rest were garbage. I went to the grand opening and had high hopes. They even said in the advertisment: "Hand selected Machines" ... well they looked like craiglist used leftovers. Random crap of every kind with no rhyme or reason. Do you know of any good gyms? I can't find a single one worth anything... pathetic.

[HealthNutMD]

I did 4 mods this week, I'll share a few of them.

Here is the Original Vertical chest from Atlantis. The reason for the mod was to get a little more pre-stretch, which ended up being hugely beneficial to the strength curve a well. towards the end of the motion, the strength curve was too light. Also, only with the back rest fully extended could you get adequate pre-stretch. Although I thought it could use another 1 or 2 inches of prestretch as well. After this mod, this machine is absolutely wonderful. It complements the Panatta vertical chest well. If I had to pick one, I'd pick the Panatta vertical chest, however I don't, and I'm happy to have the Atlantis (old school out of production) Vertical chest as well.

I had a welder come a couple days ago.



Original STOPS:










I did some reps with the rubber stop removed, and realized the absolutely huge improvement. So the rest followed:

[HealthNutMD]

Pics:




















Removed the height (neck) of the metal stop,
removed the top plate that holds the rubber stop that has the threads.
welded the top plate to the frame.
Sanded, primed, painted...

[HealthNutMD]

Finished:









Absolutely huge improvement compared to original:

[HealthNutMD]

Here was an easy way to get 3 more inches range of motion out of the Pivot Press:

[Greybird2]

Its unbelievable. Miami and San Francisco... two major cities, both known for fitness. Worse gyms I have ever seen. Funny part is Bakersfield California had a great chain of gyms.

A gym just opened in Wynnewood, near the design district. Iron addicts Gym, and Independent gym... They had about 4 good machines, the rest were garbage. I went to the grand opening and had high hopes. They even said in the advertisment: "Hand selected Machines" ... well they looked like craiglist used leftovers. Random crap of every kind with no rhyme or reason. Do you know of any good gyms? I can't find a single one worth anything... pathetic.

So not to de-rail too much, I love your mods and just seeing nice equipment. It is a shame you don't have a gym. A new gym opened in Hollywood. One off, kind of like Snap where you can go whenever. They have even worse Life Fitness machines than LA Fitness has. My wife was even laughing at the built in rep counters. They did have nice racks and weights, but, I have that at home.

[HealthNutMD]

Someone asked me a question about this pic:




I know it isn't rocket science... I was just showing the thickness difference. I ended up getting shorter stainless steel bolts from Home Depot and leaving the bottom bolt off.

Rubber roll flooring makes great stop material. Today I was bouncing 10 plates per side (20 plates) off of it... It is very robust.

[a7stringkilla]

Is that your old Atlantis Power Squat at the Mi40 Gym? Your was the only one Ive seen with the widened foot plate.

[daniel327]

Dear thread members,

In John 7:18 Jesus Himself tells us that "He that speaks of himself (or of his accomplishments - or "product" as it applies to us) seeks his own glory" (that is, is trying to sell his own ideas or wares). I brought up this gospel passage in order to point out what most of us are already aware of, and that is to take any manufacturer's claims regarding the products that they sell with a "grain of salt"; after all they are trying to sell their own product. Most (if not all) designers and manufacturers of muscle building machines will boast on their own concepts or products..... .....and that is the beauty of this thread that HealthNutMD has come up with.

When HealthNutMD set the rules that each machine spoken of on this thread would be evaluated and judged by that individual machine's merits, ...not who built it, ...or the name behind it, ...or its general popularity, ...or other machines built by the same manufacturer, (or even the claims regarding it), he in effect set a standard that can set individual machines apart, and with the help (input) of members on this thread, can give a general ranking of machines which, in turn, is of great value to future purchasers. In addition, I have personally found by reading this thread, a great deal of information related to purchasing, such as prices paid for machines, dealing with manufacturers, details regarding shipping and delivery of machines, and delivery schedules; all things of interest to potential buyers.

I have read through this entire thread and have also observed that you (the members on this thread) all make your judgements on the basis of your own experience (actually using the machines you speak of) and that many of you don't simply come to "shoot from the hip" decisions, but have, in fairness to the machines being tested, devoted many hours to the machines being evaluated.

As more and more of you evaluate as many machines as you come across and give your comments, a consensus tends to come together, and the overall best machines (for the most people) tend to rise to the top.


I will not boast on my machines or accomplishments (Jesus wouldn't let me anyway), and I, personally, would much prefer that others speak on my behalf. I will say, however, that I too design and manufacture muscle building machines (although few people are aware of it).

Because this forum is devoted to finding the "best of the best" muscle building machines, and because you welcome all challengers for evaluation, and because I have not yet seen the company "Lamb Bodybuilding Machines" brought up in this thread; I am including a few pictures of my latest designs, hoping, that they will at least stir up some questions that I may be able to answer.


Sincerely,

Henry Maag



.

and she's back with her BS machines.

[Stasher1]

Dear thread members,

In John 7:18 Jesus Himself tells us that "He that speaks of himself (or of his accomplishments - or "product" as it applies to us) seeks his own glory" (that is, is trying to sell his own ideas or wares). I brought up this gospel passage in order to point out what most of us are already aware of, and that is to take any manufacturer's claims regarding the products that they sell with a "grain of salt"; after all they are trying to sell their own product. Most (if not all) designers and manufacturers of muscle building machines will boast on their own concepts or products..... .....and that is the beauty of this thread that HealthNutMD has come up with.

When HealthNutMD set the rules that each machine spoken of on this thread would be evaluated and judged by that individual machine's merits, ...not who built it, ...or the name behind it, ...or its general popularity, ...or other machines built by the same manufacturer, (or even the claims regarding it), he in effect set a standard that can set individual machines apart, and with the help (input) of members on this thread, can give a general ranking of machines which, in turn, is of great value to future purchasers. In addition, I have personally found by reading this thread, a great deal of information related to purchasing, such as prices paid for machines, dealing with manufacturers, details regarding shipping and delivery of machines, and delivery schedules; all things of interest to potential buyers.

I have read through this entire thread and have also observed that you (the members on this thread) all make your judgements on the basis of your own experience (actually using the machines you speak of) and that many of you don't simply come to "shoot from the hip" decisions, but have, in fairness to the machines being tested, devoted many hours to the machines being evaluated.

As more and more of you evaluate as many machines as you come across and give your comments, a consensus tends to come together, and the overall best machines (for the most people) tend to rise to the top.


I will not boast on my machines or accomplishments (Jesus wouldn't let me anyway), and I, personally, would much prefer that others speak on my behalf. I will say, however, that I too design and manufacture muscle building machines (although few people are aware of it).

Because this forum is devoted to finding the "best of the best" muscle building machines, and because you welcome all challengers for evaluation, and because I have not yet seen the company "Lamb Bodybuilding Machines" brought up in this thread; I am including a few pictures of my latest designs, hoping, that they will at least stir up some questions that I may be able to answer.


Sincerely,

Henry Maag



.

While they may be fully functional pieces, they look like unfinished prototypes of very dated designs.

[a7stringkilla]

It would be cool to see those presses finished and a vid of them in use. One thing I will say though, is any row that arcs in the transverse plane and runs in a straight line in the sagittal plane (Body Masters CX, Precor/Icarian Flite) will be bio-mechanically incorrect unless you completely flare your elbows, and I dont think there is a way to correct that with that design. A row should arc in the sagittal plane, and either diverge or keep the same distance.

[a7stringkilla]

They are your machines and you can build them how you want to. Pulling in a straight line will leave your shoulders elevated/shrugged in the finished position if your elbows are not completely flared. Anyone reading this right now can just mimic doing a row in a straight line and they'll see what I mean. I do an elbows flared row on my Magnum Biangular's overhand handles sometimes at the end of a workout, but if that was the only option on it, I'd get rid of it. For whatever reason, pressing in a straight line doesn't have that negative effect, but for rows, it totally messes up the mechanics. Unless of course, you're building a machine that should be performed with flared elbows. And I'm not trying to be a dick or anything like that to you, or knock what you're doing. It takes balls to design, build and put a product out there, but that design is not a good one. Other companies have done it, and they were sh!tty, and Ive owned pressing and pulling versions of machines designed that way.

[C123C]

Yes, I'd love to open a new gym with all of the machines on the cost no object list, but it would take about $500,000-600,000 to get all the machines I would want.... Or ... I'd have to use all the ones I have now. I'd love to do it one way or the other, but the profit margins seem slim. I'm not in a mode where I feel like breaking even for that huge amount of effort. That being said, I really would love to do just that.

I missed this before. I think we've all probably thought this one time or another. How to turn a passion into a business. I was pretty close to going into the S&C field but it isn't the only interest I have and luckily others compensate me more but in different ways. I certainly enjoyed training people and even doing basic PT work on someone new, seeing their enthusiasm at progressing and just the general empowerment it brings to their lives. Especially the more out of shape ones who have never been in decent shape before or made progress - it's like their entire inner being lights up for the first time they've ever had physical success. It's easy for a person with good genetics and background to walk into a gym. Some people have to fight down an emotional demon hoard just to own it, walk in, and attempt to better themselves.

The issue with the gym business as I see it is that:
1) most people don't appreciate anything so their willingness to pay more for a gym membership with higher quality equipment is limited. The correlation to serious gym culture/students of the iron game with otherwise successful careers and funding would seem negative in my experience without a big population of exceptions so those who are "in the know" and can appreciate things tend to have no money (consider all the private PL gyms)
2) related to #1 margins are slim so it's a lot of time and effort just to turn money over
3) even if you hurdle all this...walk into most gyms and it's douchebag heaven. You now have to deal with the gym population and gym employees which is why a lot of us have our own setups. See #2 on margins again in the context of this.

I think the only answer and it's likely not viable for profit or break-even is a private invite only gym with maybe some independent hand selected PTs who train clients out of it and general members you approve of (good luck finding enough of those in any given area). Which means either a major money loser or smaller space with those inherent limitations but at least this model wouldn't destroy something you love.

I revisit this in my head from time to time and this is where I end up. But, similar to you, this is something I would absolutely love to do so I never completely abandon it.