My bench is weak and also at a standstill! HELP!

[Shaun1990]

My deadlifts and squats are progressing quite well, it's just the bench. But I don't curls heavy weights. I usually go for 21s.

Well as I've said many times, your bench will increase a lot if you go onto a routine like Rippetoes (probably better for someone with your stats - I went on it and experienced amazing size and strength gains) or 5x5 (more for intermediate lifters. If you only bench 110lbs then you're still a beginner) as well as your muscle mass. A 110lbs bench isn't going to get you a big upper body even if you do it in the "8-12 rep hypertrophy range".

Well yeah, as I said before, the last workout I only did 9 sets for the chest and felt it being worked out quite enough, so I just stopped. Good idea?

Don't know. Different things work for different people. Volume works for some but not for a great deal of lifters who are doing routines they found in Flex and are still the same size and strength they started at.

One of the most important things you can do is try out different things. But for this stage, I, and the rest of the people who know what they're talking about, recommend you do a few months of either Rippetoes or 5x5.

[boostthis89]

im not reading the entire thread but heres my opinion

squat, dead, row, bench = big bench


and dont use height as an escuse..
look at your bodyweight and your height.. as you start putting more mass on you will increase in weights lifted..

[ThickAsABrick]

I agree with Spirit.

[spirit3530]

Yes, you can aboslutely build muscle with 5 reps and no, "5x5" does not necessarily mean 5 sets of 5 reps.

As I was explaining to you, 5x5 is a methedology, not any single program. If you think otherwise then you aren't too experienced with the many "5x5" programs out there.

5x5's are generally full body, compound based, well structured programs with an emphasis on simple progression schemes.



25-30% in 5 rep range... 50% with TuT... where are you pulling these numbers from dude?


He's 6'3 and 176lbs... he wants to "gain muscle and get bigger and stronger".

A simple 5x5 that teaches him how to train correctly sounds like just what the doctor ordered.

Seriously you don't want to know but hey I will try to give you a model lets take Chest for the example bodypart


25% 3 sets DB flat bench 5 reps
25% 3 sets incline press 8 reps
25% 3 sets weighted dips or hammer strength dips 12 reps
25% 3 sets cable flys 10 reps

100% workload 12 sets. rep range 5-12


^^^^A bodybuilding routine

flat bench 5x5
weighted dips 5x5

^^^NOT a bodybuilding routine


If you follow 5x5 you will get stronger but you won't grow as fast. as a solid structured bb routine.

[8-Hype]

A 110lbs bench isn't going to get you a big upper body even if you do it in the "8-12 rep hypertrophy range".

That's not what it's supposed to do. There are numerous exercises which are much more effective of building your upper body. I just wanted a bit more of strength with the bench, that's it. The numbers are also relative. You could say the same for a guy who benches 400 lbs. We're talking about the max you can bench for that rep range.

And I pretty much agree with all what Spirit said.

[Shaun1990]

That's not what it's supposed to do. There are numerous exercises which are much more effective of building your upper body.

Well that depends on the person, really. That said, bench press is definitely one of the best exercises for adding overall mass to the chest, tricpes and delts.

I just wanted a bit more of strength with the bench, that's it. The numbers are also relative. You could say the same for a guy who benches 400 lbs. We're talking about the max you can bench for that rep range.

And I pretty much agree with all what Spirit said.

And you're wrong. You won't have a small upper body if you can bench 400lbs. If you want some extra strength on the bench then do 5x5. If you do that program right you'll also gain a ton of mass.

[ThickAsABrick]

You won't have a small upper body if you can bench 400lbs.

That doesn't mean trying to get to a 400 lb bench is necessarily the best way to gain chest size, as many incorrectly deduce. Context should not be overlooked.

[chazzy1864]

If you want some extra strength on the bench then do 5x5. If you do that program right you'll also gain a ton of mass until your newbie gains plateau.

Fixed.

[DJSTARER]

floor presses make big benches.

[mjw8204]

I, and the rest of the people who know what they're talking about, recommend you do a few months of either Rippetoes or 5x5.

Yeah, judging by his avi, Spirit obviously has no idea what he's talking about.

That's quite a pompous attitude you're sporting there.

[chazzy1864]

Yeah, judging by his avi, Spirit obviously has no idea what he's talking about.

That's quite a pompous attitude you're sporting there.

Spirit is teh n00bz. What would he know about building muscle?

Besides, I'm sure the guy that is 188lbs at 6'2 knows all about gaining mass. He is teh hy00ge!

[cm45]

basic power pyramid (start lighter weight and increase after each set...)

Set 1: 10-12 reps

Set 2: 8-10 reps

Set 3: 6-8 reps

Set 4: 4-6 reps

good way to train for hypertrophy

[Shaun1990]

That doesn't mean trying to get to a 400 lb bench is necessarily the best way to gain chest size, as many incorrectly deduce. Context should not be overlooked.

True. But from what I've seen he'll still need to add quite a few pounds to his bench if he wants to add mass. 110lbs simply isn't enough for him to gain mass with. All this high volume stuff and pyramiding will work much better if he benches a decent amount of weight.

Fixed.

Many more experienced people also make great gains on 5x5.

Yeah, judging by his avi, Spirit obviously has no idea what he's talking about.

That's quite a pompous attitude you're sporting there.

I didn't mention any names.

[8-Hype]

If you want some extra strength on the bench then do 5x5.

I'm not saying I will try this in the near future, but how exactly do you perform a 5x5? Do you always take weight which you can't do for more than 5 reps on each set, or do you take just one weight for all 5 sets where you cannot do more than 5 reps on the last set?

All this high volume stuff and pyramiding will work much better if he benches a decent amount of weight.

Says who?

[Shaun1990]

I'm not saying I will try this in the near future, but how exactly do you perform a 5x5? Do you always take weight which you can't do for more than 5 reps on each set, or do you take just one weight for all 5 sets where you cannot do more than 5 reps on the last set?

http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow...Linear_5x5.htm

This is just one of the versions of 5x5. Probably the most popular. However, as previously said, 5x5 is just a training method. It does not mean that you perform 5 sets of 5 reps. Read the link thoroughly for more information on 5x5 training.

Says who?

Do you honestly question that pyramiding up from 140lbs to 190lbs isn't going to be any more effective for a 6'+ 170 something pound gentleman than going from 70lbs to 110lbs? (Numbers just randomly made up, but you get the idea.)

[mjw8204]

I didn't mention any names.

Oh grow the fuck up and stop being coy. You clearly implied in your post that you are some sort of authority on the subject, and that Spirit doesn't know what he's talking about. It is clear from Spirit's avatar, as well as his training and competition history that he knows plenty.

It's one thing to disagree with him about training methodology or approach. However, the manner in which you casually dismissed the legitimacy of anything he has to say not only weakens your position, it makes you look foolish as well.

"I didn't mention any names hurr hurr hyuck hyuck."

[Dark_MadMax]

im not reading the entire thread but heres my opinion

squat, dead, row, bench = big bench

Sorry - I don't agree. that's what I thought before and what I did and I got big increase in squats, deads and rows. BUT ZERO in bench. And I did bench too, consistently - once or twice a week at least.

I will do something differently for my 3d year though ,because obviously that approach did not work.

I also neglected biceps (yes) -and it has some serious implications too , now that I am over 200lbs I constantly have elbow pain after pull ups , and Oh press

[SDFlip]

again, i think it's funny that the "bodybuilders" here are not only bigger but stronger than all the 5x5er's in ALL rep ranges.

haha.

[Defiant1]

And you're wrong. You won't have a small upper body if you can bench 400lbs.

You'll have a big bench if you have 20" arms.

[Dark_MadMax]

You'll have a big bench if you have 20" arms.

Umm not necessarily . It could be a 20" fatceps. You could have legit 20" arm and still not bench 400

[Defiant1]

Umm not necessarily . It could be a 20" fatceps. You could have legit 20" arm and still not bench 400

I wasn't being serious.

But that argument is as circular as the 400 lb bench argument.

[mAssholio]

I wouldn't even trust an eagles fan with ez mac

[Shaun1990]

Oh grow the fuck up and stop being coy. You clearly implied in your post that you are some sort of authority on the subject, and that Spirit doesn't know what he's talking about. It is clear from Spirit's avatar, as well as his training and competition history that he knows plenty.

It's one thing to disagree with him about training methodology or approach. However, the manner in which you casually dismissed the legitimacy of anything he has to say not only weakens your position, it makes you look foolish as well.

"I didn't mention any names hurr hurr hyuck hyuck."

But one size doesn't fit all. What works for some doesn't work for others. Someone who recommends that a beginner who benches 110lbs for 5 reps go on some hypertrophy specific programme really doesn't know how to train a beginner. Just like someone who has only lifted a few months, and only read material from the likes of Mark Rippetoes and Bill Starr don't know how to train a contest bodybuilder. But I'd be willing to bet my life savings that the 5x5 routine for a few months would add more size and mass on the beginner level OP than a bodybuilding programme.

[DJSTARER]

again, i think it's funny that the "bodybuilders" here are not only bigger but stronger than all the 5x5er's in ALL rep ranges.

haha.

uh.... i don't know man. No disrespect. But I find most BBers were at some point powerlifters/strongment.

[spirit3530]

uh.... i don't know man. No disrespect. But I find most BBers were at some point powerlifters/strongment.

wow you take the roidz one time and you are branded forever.


Now we have to define powerlifter



:facepalm:

[demike]

I wouldn't even trust a PATRIOTS fan with ez mac

Fixed for ya and x2

[mjw8204]

But one size doesn't fit all. What works for some doesn't work for others. Someone who recommends that a beginner who benches 110lbs for 5 reps go on some hypertrophy specific programme really doesn't know how to train a beginner. Just like someone who has only lifted a few months, and only read material from the likes of Mark Rippetoes and Bill Starr don't know how to train a contest bodybuilder. But I'd be willing to bet my life savings that the 5x5 routine for a few months would add more size and mass on the beginner level OP than a bodybuilding programme.

I don't care about your disagreement with him. I took issue with how you blatantly disparaged Spirit's knowledge and experience, and then played some bull**** child's game with me about "not mentioning names." If you want to have an adult conversation act like one and own up to what you say.

Like I said, it's fine to disagree. But you can do it without the pompous attitude.

[blackthursday]

Personally I think until you are sporting a 200 lb bench, 300 lb squat, and 350+ lb deadlift, the differentiation between a bodybuilder and a powerlifter is pretty inconsequential. You should concern yourself with getting to these numbers first, and then you can go off and do whatever you want, and the fastest way to achieve this is a simple 5x5 or any basic strength program. Spirit obviously knows what he's talking about, just look at the guy. But look at his lifts too. He's sporting (according to his bodyspace) a 500+ deadlift. I'm not going to jump on the strength automatically = size bandwagon (even though it does at the OP's level of experience), but in my personal opinion, you would be better suited at building a solid amount of strength and size first, THEN you can branch off into different rep ranges, experimenting to find what best promotes muscular hypertrophy, and at this point you will be better in tune with your body and how it responds to the stress imposed by training. You don't start building a house without laying the foundation first. Then when the house is built you can start detailing it Then maybe add some nice ruffled curtains

And I pretty much agree with all what Spirit said.

Of course you do, because he's telling you what you want to hear. You are dead set on the idea that you won't get big on anything but a bodybuilding routine, which, no offense, is why you are still small. Last time I checked, aspiring olympic lifters don't start their first day in the gym doing power cleans, snatches, and clean and jerks. No, they get strong first, which is what you should be doing too.

[SDFlip]

But one size doesn't fit all. What works for some doesn't work for others.

self PWN3D.

[SDFlip]

uh.... i don't know man. No disrespect. But I find most BBers were at some point powerlifters/strongment.

someone that benches/squats/deads doesn't = powerlifter

i don't know 1 strongman that switched over to bbing.

-and- my original post was referring to the people in this thread. i bet if you took the "big3" totals of the people taking the bbing stance it would be higher than the people who exclusively train for strength.