FoolontheHill Log's Beta-Phenylethylamine

[FoolontheHill]

Hello all,

I've been around the boards for a little over a year, but this is the first log I've done, I feel as though it should not be too hard to update once daily for effects. Thanks to steve silwa and the guys at unique nutrition for sending me out the pea. You've probably already read a lot about PEA, and I have experimented with various other PEA analogues, so I will be able to gague my experiences with straight PEA within the scope of that.

Diet
I don't suspect my diet will have much effect on the log as I am going to be using the PEA for mood enhancing/cognitive abilities. but if anyone does care to know I'm currently doing the Ultimate Diet 2.0 by Lyle McDonald, and so far its worked very well for me. I know PEA needs to be taken on an empty stomach for peak effects, So on my carb binge days I will probably not be taking it.

Other supplements/ medications used
Everyday:
Fish oil (3g EPA+DHA)
GTE
NOW Maca
NOW Cayenne
Magnesium/zinc

Most of the time/Occasionally:
Vyvanse 30mg
Adrenalean 3 caps

I also popped 2 caps ( I got the 750 mg ) about half an hour ago on an empty stomach, I feel something, but would like to wait for all effects before logging it out, so I'll be back later today to report on my experience with 1500mg empty stomach/dosed with vyvanse.

[CognitiveNutrition]

Hello all,

I've been around the boards for a little over a year, but this is the first log I've done, I feel as though it should not be too hard to update once daily for effects. Thanks to steve silwa and the guys at unique nutrition for sending me out the pea. You've probably already read a lot about PEA, and I have experimented with various other PEA analogues, so I will be able to gague my experiences with straight PEA within the scope of that.

Diet
I don't suspect my diet will have much effect on the log as I am going to be using the PEA for mood enhancing/cognitive abilities. but if anyone does care to know I'm currently doing the Ultimate Diet 2.0 by Lyle McDonald, and so far its worked very well for me. I know PEA needs to be taken on an empty stomach for peak effects, So on my carb binge days I will probably not be taking it.

Other supplements/ medications used
Everyday:
Fish oil (3g EPA+DHA)
GTE
NOW Maca
NOW Cayenne
Magnesium/zinc

Most of the time/Occasionally:
Vyvanse 30mg
Adrenalean 3 caps

I also popped 2 caps ( I got the 750 mg ) about half an hour ago on an empty stomach, I feel something, but would like to wait for all effects before logging it out, so I'll be back later today to report on my experience with 1500mg empty stomach/dosed with vyvanse.

Going with a high dose for your first time. This should be interesting.

[FoolontheHill]

Report on Day 1: very positive mood effects. I would say it was empathogenic, I find that sometimes when taking amphetamines I will have very drastic mood swings as the drug begins to wear off, this did not happen yesterday, I simply maintained a positive mood throughout the day, didn't get any of that "PEA buzz" though, I will achieve that at some point in this log.

today is a carb load day, so I never really have an empty stomach, regardless, I'm going off to work at 4 so I will take the PEA (1 cap) with 3 caps adrenalean to see what comes of it, erring on the side of 1 cap because I don't want any overtly strange effects at work.

For those of you living in california, I work at IN N OUT. Will report later tonight.

[FoolontheHill]

Going with a high dose for your first time. This should be interesting.

When it comes to psychotropics, I tend to push the edge. If you have some experimental protocol you'd like me to try out that you "wouldn't recommend" I'll try it.

[RIPcookiethief]

I take one or two 750mg pills with a very heavy meal(after I'm done eating). It seems to extend the duration of the effects by quite a large margin.

[CognitiveNutrition]

When it comes to psychotropics, I tend to push the edge. If you have some experimental protocol you'd like me to try out that you "wouldn't recommend" I'll try it.

I like the 2-4 caps followed by 1-2 cap 15 mins later protocol for me. Whenever dosing PEA increase only by 1 cap more per day to assess your own reaction.

[CognitiveNutrition]

I take one or two 750mg pills with a very heavy meal(after I'm done eating). It seems to extend the duration of the effects by quite a large margin.

For me whenever I've tried it with food I never noticed much effect. I guess some people vary on this.

[FoolontheHill]

Just got back from work. Couple of things:

The amount of PEA in 3 caps of adrenalean is undisclosed, hence I cannot be sure how much I ingested (750mg+whatever is in adrenalean) but I did feel a better than average mood lifting effect today. I would guess maybe a little over a gram of PEA

I have seen steve say multiple times that hordenine is a weak MAOI and if anything should not be taken with PEA, but so it is.

Work went by very quickly, which is great, because I bust my ass at work. I'm a college kid, ergo I'm broke almost all the time, so when I get work I make sure I shine. usually, time passes very slowly, but today the 3 hours went by very quickly.

No buzz, but music was better.

tomorrow I've gotta wake up at 8, hit the gym, come back, get ready for and then go to work. Also on weekends I take a hiatus from amphetamines.

So tomorrow morning preworkout I'll be doing 4 caps adrenalean and 2 caps PEA. We'll see how that works out.

[CognitiveNutrition]

Just got back from work. Couple of things:

The amount of PEA in 3 caps of adrenalean is undisclosed, hence I cannot be sure how much I ingested (750mg+whatever is in adrenalean) but I did feel a better than average mood lifting effect today. I would guess maybe a little over a gram of PEA

I have seen steve say multiple times that hordenine is a weak MAOI and if anything should not be taken with PEA, but so it is.

Work went by very quickly, which is great, because I bust my ass at work. I'm a college kid, ergo I'm broke almost all the time, so when I get work I make sure I shine. usually, time passes very slowly, but today the 3 hours went by very quickly.

No buzz, but music was better.

tomorrow I've gotta wake up at 8, hit the gym, come back, get ready for and then go to work. Also on weekends I take a hiatus from amphetamines.

So tomorrow morning preworkout I'll be doing 4 caps adrenalean and 2 caps PEA. We'll see how that works out.

LOL. I've Never said Hordenine is an MAO-I. All the research I reviewed and discussed (see my thread here http://www.mindandmuscle.net/forum/i...1&hl=hordenine) shows it's a substrate which will if anything reduce or change the effects of pea.

I do not recommend using hordenine within an hour of taking pea. You will have different less potent effects.

I would suggest taking it first thing in the morning if you can food hinders it's effects as well. I have never seen any effect when taking pea with food even when taking 3 grams. 1.5 grams or 2 caps on an empty stomach gives me a strong kick.

[FoolontheHill]

I'm sorry steve I worded it funny now that I read back on it.

i was saying the same thing you were, it sounded right in my head.

[CognitiveNutrition]

I'm sorry steve I worded it funny now that I read back on it.

i was saying the same thing you were, it sounded right in my head.

It's ok. I just hate people putting the opposite words in my mouth. It's a complicated subject matter for anyone.

[FoolontheHill]

today: took 2 caps am with 3 caps adrenalean before the gym in the morning, I definitely got the buzz off that, though it wasn't a stimulant effect, it was actually more sedating than anything, kind of a mellow "everything's ok" type of attitude.

Went to work, 3 hours in i popped two more caps, by themselves, got a little bit of a buzz off those too, but again the mellow grinning isn't really what I need at work/the gym, so I think from now on I'll keep it to 1-2 pills for those activities, as lower doses improve my mood without impairing concentration.

[CognitiveNutrition]

today: took 2 caps am with 3 caps adrenalean before the gym in the morning, I definitely got the buzz off that, though it wasn't a stimulant effect, it was actually more sedating than anything, kind of a mellow "everything's ok" type of attitude.

Went to work, 3 hours in i popped two more caps, by themselves, got a little bit of a buzz off those too, but again the mellow grinning isn't really what I need at work/the gym, so I think from now on I'll keep it to 1-2 pills for those activities, as lower doses improve my mood without impairing concentration.

Try PEA with a cup of coffee or caffeine it tends to bring out the more stimulating effects.

[FoolontheHill]

Sorry I didn't get to a computer yesterday.

I dosed three caps on an empty stomach. Sunday is normally my day to relax/nap/unwind and then I had work at 4.

Experience: took three caps on an empty stomach. Was feeling tired (non PEA related) so I ended taking about a half hour nap. At some point during my nap the PEA kicked in because I have to tell you it was the craziest, most involved dream I can remember, very vivid and life like, almost overwhelming.

I found that when I woke my brain had a little trouble processing the time of day, for some reason I thought it was midnight (and, ergo, I was late to work) when it was only 4 in the afternoon.

At work I had noticeable mood elevation and loquaciousness. Which isn't always a good thing, but it worked out well.

Today I will not be dosing as I read somewhere that you should take a couple of days off a week to maintain effects.

Question to steve:

1. As I've mentioned several times in this log, I am prescribed Vyvanse (lisdexamphetamine dimesylate) Will my dosage of amphetamine through the week have effects on the PEA tolerance?

2. I don't believe I'll be able to source/afford seligiline before this log is over, are there any real MAO-B inhibitors I could get my hands on without a prescription (I know the answers probably no )

[CognitiveNutrition]

Sorry I didn't get to a computer yesterday.

I dosed three caps on an empty stomach. Sunday is normally my day to relax/nap/unwind and then I had work at 4.

Experience: took three caps on an empty stomach. Was feeling tired (non PEA related) so I ended taking about a half hour nap. At some point during my nap the PEA kicked in because I have to tell you it was the craziest, most involved dream I can remember, very vivid and life like, almost overwhelming.

I found that when I woke my brain had a little trouble processing the time of day, for some reason I thought it was midnight (and, ergo, I was late to work) when it was only 4 in the afternoon.

At work I had noticeable mood elevation and loquaciousness. Which isn't always a good thing, but it worked out well.

Today I will not be dosing as I read somewhere that you should take a couple of days off a week to maintain effects.

Question to steve:

1. As I've mentioned several times in this log, I am prescribed Vyvanse (lisdexamphetamine dimesylate) Will my dosage of amphetamine through the week have effects on the PEA tolerance?

2. I don't believe I'll be able to source/afford seligiline before this log is over, are there any real MAO-B inhibitors I could get my hands on without a prescription (I know the answers probably no )

1. I have considered the possibility that your amphetamine use may effect your response to PEA. (Amphetamines and ritalin's mode of action is to increase pea levels). Tolerance could be an increased factor which cycling and lower doses may help prevent.

2. The best source I know takes 2 weeks. Pm me if you like.

[tbagger__]

1. I have considered the possibility that your amphetamine use may effect your response to PEA. (Amphetamines and ritalin's mode of action is to increase pea levels). Tolerance could be an increased factor which cycling and lower doses may help prevent.

2. The best source I know takes 2 weeks. Pm me if you like.

MAOIs (monoamine oxidase inhibitors, e.g., Phenelzine, Nardil, Selegiline, Emsam, Iproniazid, Iprozid, etc.) ? Do not administer amphetamines for a minimum of two weeks after last use of MAOI type drug. Possible hypertensive crises, dangerously elevated amphetamine levels. Preliminary trials of low dose amphetamine and MAOIs being administered together are in progress. However, this is to only be done under strict supervision of the prescribing parties.

[CognitiveNutrition]

MAOIs (monoamine oxidase inhibitors, e.g., Phenelzine, Nardil, Selegiline, Emsam, Iproniazid, Iprozid, etc.) ? Do not administer amphetamines for a minimum of two weeks after last use of MAOI type drug. Possible hypertensive crises, dangerously elevated amphetamine levels. Preliminary trials of low dose amphetamine and MAOIs being administered together are in progress. However, this is to only be done under strict supervision of the prescribing parties.

Deprenyl is a selective MAO-B inhibitor which can be safely used with amphetamines in low doses. MAO-I's however should be avoided.

[FoolontheHill]

10/21/08

Experiment: Will be dosing 1 cap (750 mg) every half hour for two hours. This comes to four caps total, or 3 grams of PEA.

I just took my second cap. From the first i'm feeling a little bit happier. Will update on how this goes. Completely empty stomach right now, I'm doing a bit of an IF today so all dosages will be on an empty stomach. Vyvanse day.

Until then, I leave you with the beauty of the phenylethylamines. (wiki)

MAOIs (monoamine oxidase inhibitors, e.g., Phenelzine, Nardil, Selegiline, Emsam, Iproniazid, Iprozid, etc.) ? Do not administer amphetamines for a minimum of two weeks after last use of MAOI type drug. Possible hypertensive crises, dangerously elevated amphetamine levels. Preliminary trials of low dose amphetamine and MAOIs being administered together are in progress. However, this is to only be done under strict supervision of the prescribing parties.

thank you for your concern, I am aware.

[FoolontheHill]

Yesterday the experiment was 4 doses spaced a half hour apart.

Effects: I did not notice the distinctive PEA high when dosing in this fashion, I should add here, since I have not earlier in the log, that I weigh 200 lbs, which has an effect on dosage strength/reactions.

While I did not get a high from the PEA at this dosage, the mood elevation was fantastic, the time seemed to fly by, I was more sociable, less argumentative. If a tolerance did not build, I could definitely see using PEA as a daily mood elevation supplement. It is still possible, but possibly (as steve pointed out earlier) with cyclical usage (5 days on 2 days off perhaps/or EOD dosing) As mentioned earlier I do an IF on Monday through wednesday, taking in half of maintenance calories (1500 for me) I noticed that the PEA alleviated the hunger pangs that are associated with the beginning of the fast, above and beyond the effect of amphetamine when used concurrently, so this could be used as an adjunct to a "cutting" cycle.

Today: No PEA dosing, at school all day and did not bring any pills with me.

Next Experiment: Either Tomorrow or the Day after I will try steve's earlier reccomendation of 4 pills followed by 2 pills 15 minutes later, this equates to 4.5 grams PEA, a very large dosage by most peoples standards, I do this for two reasons:
a. I am a somewhat experience psychonaut, and want to see what this can do in comparison to other substances.
b. I really appreciate the opportunity for this log, and know that many people have logged Cognitive's PEA in the past, I would like to make my log "worth something" to the guys at cognitive/unique nutrition, as I realize my logging is not as detailed as others.
The experiment Will be labeled: Operation B-PEA: Get Stoned (yes, a bit of a nerd)


other notes: Tomorrow SWIM might be ingesting some Lysergic Acid Diethyl Amide in the evening hours, this will SWIM's first time experimenting with this chemical, and SWIM was wondering what steve's PEA reccomendations might be for SWIM.

Thanks to steve for the sourcing, a very interesting site that I will be ordering from as soon as I have expendable income, their bulk products also seem quite interesting.

[CognitiveNutrition]

Yesterday the experiment was 4 doses spaced a half hour apart.

Effects: I did not notice the distinctive PEA high when dosing in this fashion, I should add here, since I have not earlier in the log, that I weigh 200 lbs, which has an effect on dosage strength/reactions.

While I did not get a high from the PEA at this dosage, the mood elevation was fantastic, the time seemed to fly by, I was more sociable, less argumentative. If a tolerance did not build, I could definitely see using PEA as a daily mood elevation supplement. It is still possible, but possibly (as steve pointed out earlier) with cyclical usage (5 days on 2 days off perhaps/or EOD dosing) As mentioned earlier I do an IF on Monday through wednesday, taking in half of maintenance calories (1500 for me) I noticed that the PEA alleviated the hunger pangs that are associated with the beginning of the fast, above and beyond the effect of amphetamine when used concurrently, so this could be used as an adjunct to a "cutting" cycle.

Today: No PEA dosing, at school all day and did not bring any pills with me.

Next Experiment: Either Tomorrow or the Day after I will try steve's earlier reccomendation of 4 pills followed by 2 pills 15 minutes later, this equates to 4.5 grams PEA, a very large dosage by most peoples standards, I do this for two reasons:
a. I am a somewhat experience psychonaut, and want to see what this can do in comparison to other substances.
b. I really appreciate the opportunity for this log, and know that many people have logged Cognitive's PEA in the past, I would like to make my log "worth something" to the guys at cognitive/unique nutrition, as I realize my logging is not as detailed as others.
The experiment Will be labeled: Operation B-PEA: Get Stoned (yes, a bit of a nerd)


other notes: Tomorrow SWIM might be ingesting some Lysergic Acid Diethyl Amide in the evening hours, this will SWIM's first time experimenting with this chemical, and SWIM was wondering what steve's PEA reccomendations might be for SWIM.

Thanks to steve for the sourcing, a very interesting site that I will be ordering from as soon as I have expendable income, their bulk products also seem quite interesting.

A half hour is a bit too long for PEA to buildup in your body for the intense phase, but I'm glad to see it was still effective for mood.

You can try 3 caps followed by 2 caps 15 mins later but considering your amphetamine tolerance levels 4 by 2 may be ideal.

I've heard a few people take pea while on lsd and it tends to bring on waves of energy. However for swim's first time I really can't recommend using them together swim needs to enjoy the experience and understand it without added chemicals at least for the first few times based on feedback from other swims.

I can make various suggestions for psychonauts to enhance their experience.

[FoolontheHill]

A half hour is a bit too long for PEA to buildup in your body for the intense phase, but I'm glad to see it was still effective for mood.

You can try 3 caps followed by 2 caps 15 mins later but considering your amphetamine tolerance levels 4 by 2 may be ideal.

I've heard a few people take pea while on lsd and it tends to bring on waves of energy. However for swim's first time I really can't recommend using them together swim needs to enjoy the experience and understand it without added chemicals at least for the first few times based on feedback from other swims.

I can make various suggestions for psychonauts to enhance their experience.

I agree SWIM would want to be able to distinguish the effects of PEA as opposed to the LSD, so that leaves out before and during dosing. But SWIM was thinking perhaps for the day after it would be effective, however swim is not familiar with the "come-down" or "day after" effects of this drug aside from anecdotal reports.

[CognitiveNutrition]

I agree SWIM would want to be able to distinguish the effects of PEA as opposed to the LSD, so that leaves out before and during dosing. But SWIM was thinking perhaps for the day after it would be effective, however swim is not familiar with the "come-down" or "day after" effects of this drug aside from anecdotal reports.

If it's a good trip swim should have no problems the next day. Swim won't be able to sleep on it though. I would have swim try this clean including the day after lsd can impact swim for quite awhile after dosing and should avoid other compounds unless needed (anxiety, etc).

Is swim doing this alone or with a sitter?

[FoolontheHill]

If it's a good trip swim should have no problems the next day. Swim won't be able to sleep on it though. I would have swim try this clean including the day after lsd can impact swim for quite awhile after dosing and should avoid other compounds unless needed (anxiety, etc).

Is swim doing this alone or with a sitter?

understood, swim will be abstaining from amph tomorrow (he takes them too, crazy huh) and the day after. SWIM was thinking about obtaining benzodiazepenes in case the trip "went south".

SWIM is an amateur psychonaut, but learned the hard way a long time ago that a sitter is a neccesity the first time out with a potent ally.

[CognitiveNutrition]

understood, swim will be abstaining from amph tomorrow (he takes them too, crazy huh) and the day after. SWIM was thinking about obtaining benzodiazepenes in case the trip "went south".

SWIM is an amateur psychonaut, but learned the hard way a long time ago that a sitter is a necessity the first time out with a potent ally.

I would suggest swim have cyproheptadine or trazodone to help end a bad trip. 5-HT2 A antagonists work better than benzos. But both will help.

[LT710]

WHOA!!!

Those are some interesting dosing protocols!

I'm a big guy (250), and I've been taking 1x750mg 3 times/day...I definitely feel it...

By that I mean I feel different...better...more social, want to work more, want to go to the gym...which is exactly what Ritalin does for me...

I'm running low, but I'll have to try some mega-dosing with my next bottle!

My PEA log is in my sig...

[CognitiveNutrition]

WHOA!!!

Those are some interesting dosing protocols!

I'm a big guy (250), and I've been taking 1x750mg 3 times/day...I definitely feel it...

By that I mean I feel different...better...more social, want to work more, want to go to the gym...which is exactly what Ritalin does for me...

I'm running low, but I'll have to try some mega-dosing with my next bottle!

My PEA log is in my sig...

Heh I've take far higher doses but not everyone can handle it.

Not surprised because Ritalin only works when your brain levels of PEA are increased!

Increased urine phenylethylamine after methylphenidate treatment in children with ADHD

*Correspondence to Toyojiro Matsuishi, Department of Pediatrics and Child Health, Kurume University School of Medicine, Kurume City, Japan

The urine levels of -phenylethylamine, 3-methoxy-4-hydroxyphenyl glycol, homovanillic acid, and 5-hydroxyindoleacetic acid were measured to clarify the neurochemical mechanism in attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. -Phenylethylamine levels were significantly lower in attention deficit hyperactivity disorder individuals (n = 37) than in controls (n = 21). The 22 children with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder were treated with methylphenidate, and they were further divided into methylphenidate responders (n = 18) and nonresponders (n = 4). -Phenylethylamine levels significantly increased after methylphenidate therapy in responders, whereas they did not increase in nonresponders.

[FoolontheHill]

This is SWIMS morning after.

He is at somewhat of a loss to quantify the experience of the previous evening.

SWIM will not be dosing AMPH or PEA today, as effects from last evening are still noticeable.

It is SWIMS contention that what he took might have been a little underdosed (or possibly DOI / DOB) because the experience never really got overwhelming.

But in the daylight things were a little different, SWIM is as of yet undecided.

I, on the other hand, have not dosed PEA in the last 2 days, and will not be today. I have also abstained from d-amp yesterday today, hopefully saturday and sunday too.

The experiment will probably take place monday when I have a completely empty stomach.

[CognitiveNutrition]

This is SWIMS morning after.

He is at somewhat of a loss to quantify the experience of the previous evening.

SWIM will not be dosing AMPH or PEA today, as effects from last evening are still noticeable.

It is SWIMS contention that what he took might have been a little underdosed (or possibly DOI / DOB) because the experience never really got overwhelming.

But in the daylight things were a little different, SWIM is as of yet undecided.

I, on the other hand, have not dosed PEA in the last 2 days, and will not be today. I have also abstained from d-amp yesterday today, hopefully saturday and sunday too.

The experiment will probably take place monday when I have a completely empty stomach.

SWIM use a cube or a blotter?
How did SWIM spend his time?

[FoolontheHill]

Cube.

Swim chose the evening because he feared that daytime visuals would become too overwhelming, in the morning SWIM could see that this might have been a good idea, as well lit things tend have much more about them. As you had warned, Steve, swim got about 2 hours of sleep total last night, which happened between the hours of 730 and 930 in the morning. Time was spent watching movies, in meditation, looking in the mirror, various cognitive activities. All within the confines of a house. Something SWIM did not expect was that SWIMs sitter decided to drop too, but, as I mentioned, it never became overwhelming and was only rarely frightening for SWIM (facial distortions depicting sinister intent/horrible ugliness, menacing breathing walls/expanding holes, Incapability to properly form sentences for several hours in an otherwise articulate being) . One thing to note which was absolutely astounding was, when under the influence SWIM examined his pupils in the mirror for dilation, and found them to be pulsing like a heart beat, expanding almost until the entire eye was pupil, and then contracting back to complete iris.

[FoolontheHill]

Operation B-PEA: Get Stoned

will commence tomorrow. Very busy today.