Critique My Routine - IM NOT A BEGINNER

[ConanDestroyer]

Age:37
Height: 6 ft 1
Weight: 180 lbs
Goals: Strength and Size

Squat: 180
Bench: 160
Shoulder Press: 100
Curl: 75


I did Starting Strength for at least 6 months, and gained some strength. Im pretty weak in general and hit some nasty plateaus with that program and decided it was time to follow a new routine.

I've really stalled out on this new program that I've created and I have the feeling Im getting nowhere.. making small size gains and no strength gains at all, please tell me what I'm doing wrong.

PLEASE NOTE: I can no longer deadlift due to back problems. Also note that when referring to dumbell lifts, I just say the total weight of both dumbells, not the weight of each dumbell.



March 31st
Dumbell Bench Press 60x6 120x4 120x3 120x3
Bicep Bar Curls 75x3 75x3 75x3
Incline Dumbell Press 90x5 90x5 90x5
Narrow Grip Pulldowns 150x5
Bicep Chin Up With 10 lbs Assistance - 4 reps
Smith Machine Bench Press 110x5

(2 weeks off as someone suggested since I hit plateau)

April 13th
Dumbell Bench Press 60x6 120x4 120x3 120x3 120x2
Bicep Bar Culrs 70x5 70x5 70x5 (couldnt do 75's anymore)

April 19
Dumbell Bench Press 60x6 120x5 120x3 120x3 90x5
Bicep Curls 75x1
Incline Bench 45x5
Tricep Pulldown 150x3 140x3 120x1
Lat Pulldown 115x6 130x5 145x5

April 23
Db Bench press 120x5 120x3 120x4
Smith Machine Bench 110x4
Bench Press 95x5 95x5
Dips 2 sets of 5 reps each

April 25
Squat 140x5 140x5 140x5
Bicep Bar Curls 75x3 75x3 75x3 75x2
Dumbell Curls 60x5

April 28
Dumbell Bench Press 120x4 120x2 120x4 120x4 120x2 130x1
Bench Press 105x5 105x5
Smith Bench Press 110x2
Dips 2 sets of 5 and 6 reps
Tricep Cable Pulldown 90x5 120x5 150x2

May 1st
Bicep Barl Curls 75x4 75x3 75x3
Shoulder Press 85x5 90x5 95x1
Bent Over Rows 45x5 60x5 70x2 70x2
Hammer curls 50x5

May 3rd

Squat 150x3
200 Situps

May 6th
Db Bench Press 130x3 130x3 130x2 100x6 90x7
Bench Press 125x5 115x5 95x7
Dips 1 set of 4
Tricep pulldown 130x5 140x5 150x2

May 9th
Shoulder Press 100x4 95x1 85x3
Db Shoulder press 80x6
Bicep Bar Curls 75x4 75x3 75x2 75x1
DB Curls 2 supersets
Seated Rows 135x5 120x8 120x6

May 16th
Dumbell Bench Press 130x3 130x1 120x4
Bench Press 115x6
Curls 75x3 60x7
Shoulder Press 90x4

May 23
Bicep Curls 75x1 75x2 70x4 60x5 60x5 50x7

May 27th
DB Bench press 130x3 130x3 130x2 110x5
Bench Press 115x5

May 30th
Bicep Bar Curls 75x4 75x3 75x3 70x4 60x5 50x6 40x5
Chinups with 50 weighted assistance 6 reps

June 2nd
Squat 150x5 150x5 150x5 150x5 140x5
Calf Lift 100x15 100x15

June 5th
Dumbell Bench Press 130x1 120x4 (where did my strength go?)
Narrow Lat Pulldown 135x5 150x5
Seated Rows 150x5
Bicep Bar Curls 75x4 75x3 75x2

June 10th
Dumbell Bench Press 130x3 130x2 130x3 130x2 130x1
Shoulder Press 90x4 90x3 90x3

June 13th
Bicep Bar Curls 75x4 75x3 75x2 75x1 50x5 40x5
Lat Pullups 3 sets with 35 lbs of weighted assistance
Seated Row 165x2 165x1 165x1

[Alyion]

No offensive, but you still should be able to get more out of SS, at least another 100lb could probably be added to the squat easy. I would just tough it out some more myslef and make sure my recovery is sorted.

[ConanDestroyer]

No offensive, but you still should be able to get more out of SS, at least another 100lb could probably be added to the squat easy. I would just tough it out some more myslef and make sure my recovery is sorted.

I plateaued with Starting Strength.

Its a beginners program!!!

I did it for 6 months!!!

I've taken it as far as it will go.

SS is not some magic formula for gaining 250 lbs of strength in all lifts... come on dude..

[Farley1324]

How much bodyweight did you gain during those 6 months? The last month?

[KyleAaron]

You only just squat your bodyweight. Even if you started with just the 45lb bad, and even if you did just 2 workouts a week, at 6 months you'd have done 52 workouts, meaning just 2.6lbs a workout added to your squat. Most likely, you added lots of weight quickly and then stalled. Or perhaps there were weeks when you didn't train, having got discouraged after a stall. Stalls are not simply the result of poor programme design (which you seem to have suffered), but also poor nutrition and rest. To gain strength and size, you need to eat lots of good food.

Your bench is almost as much as your squat - unless you have some injury, it's a sure sign you've done too much benching and not enough squatting, or that one or both lifts have poor technique. With those lifts, you're still a beginner.

You don't even list your deadlift, suggesting you knocked that out of SS. And curling isn't part of SS, suggesting that you added it yourself. So most likely you were not doing the programme. It's not surprising that when you don't follow a programme you don't get the programme's claimed results. I'll bet money you've not read the book, either, perhaps only glancing over a pirated pdf copy.

To gain strength and size, you don't have to do Starting Strength, but you do have to do the following,

• in every workout, do a deep knee-bend, pick something heavy up off the floor, and put something heavy overhead
• in every workout, do more than you did before - more weight, or more reps, or more sets, even if just one pound or one rep, always more
• the exact reps and sets aren't important. Less than 3 reps isn't good for a beginner, more than 15 reps has no real benefit. More than 5 work sets is more about stamina than strength. Aside from that, choose whatever range you're comfortable with.
• But have as many warmup sets as you do work sets.
• after every workout, stretch
• on your off days, do some light to moderate cardio - for an hour walk or cycle, for half an hour jog or swim
• eat LOTS of fresh fruit and vegies, LOTS of nuts and beans, SOME meat or fish every day, SOME dairy every day, SOME starchy stuff
• if after one month of this you are overall smaller and wanted to be bigger, eat more; if bigger and wanted to be smaller, eat less; otherwise, keep going as you're going
• get good sleep
• if you stall in doing more, look at first nutrition, then sleep, and only lastly at changing your routine

[ConanDestroyer]

How much bodyweight did you gain during those 6 months? The last month?

I went from 155 lbs to 185 lbs on that program, and I added about 50 lbs of strength to all my lifts. Hit a plateau where I just could not take it further.

With this new program ive created I've gained mostly stomach fat and nothing else..

This is really frustrating hitting this plateau, and the only advice you get is people telling you to do the exact same thing you've been doing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Farley1324]

I went from 155 lbs to 185 lbs on that program, and I added about 50 lbs of strength to all my lifts. Hit a plateau where I just could not take it further.

This is really frustrating hitting this plateau, and the only advice you get is people telling you to do the exact same thing you've been doing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dude, I'm looking at your post and I see nothing, absolutely nothing, that suggests you even halfway attempted to do SS. You are listing all kinds of excercises and their progress when they arent even in the program.

What did you do, exactly?


Is this a joke?

[ConanDestroyer]

You only just squat your bodyweight. Even if you started with just the 45lb bad, and even if you did just 2 workouts a week, at 6 months you'd have done 52 workouts, meaning just 2.6lbs a workout added to your squat. Most likely, you added lots of weight quickly and then stalled. Or perhaps there were weeks when you didn't train, having got discouraged after a stall. Stalls are not simply the result of poor programme design (which you seem to have suffered), but also poor nutrition and rest. To gain strength and size, you need to eat lots of good food.

Your bench is almost as much as your squat - unless you have some injury, it's a sure sign you've done too much benching and not enough squatting, or that one or both lifts have poor technique. With those lifts, you're still a beginner.

You don't even list your deadlift, suggesting you knocked that out of SS. And curling isn't part of SS, suggesting that you added it yourself. So most likely you were not doing the programme. It's not surprising that when you don't follow a programme you don't get the programme's claimed results. I'll bet money you've not read the book, either, perhaps only glancing over a pirated pdf copy.

To gain strength and size, you don't have to do Starting Strength, but you do have to do the following,

• in every workout, do a deep knee-bend, pick something heavy up off the floor, and put something heavy overhead
• in every workout, do more than you did before - more weight, or more reps, or more sets, even if just one pound or one rep, always more
• the exact reps and sets aren't important. Less than 3 reps isn't good for a beginner, more than 15 reps has no real benefit. More than 5 work sets is more about stamina than strength. Aside from that, choose whatever range you're comfortable with.
• But have as many warmup sets as you do work sets.
• after every workout, stretch
• on your off days, do some light to moderate cardio - for an hour walk or cycle, for half an hour jog or swim
• eat LOTS of fresh fruit and vegies, LOTS of nuts and beans, SOME meat or fish every day, SOME dairy every day, SOME starchy stuff
• if after one month of this you are overall smaller and wanted to be bigger, eat more; if bigger and wanted to be smaller, eat less; otherwise, keep going as you're going
• get good sleep
• if you stall in doing more, look at first nutrition, then sleep, and only lastly at changing your routine

Okay, well honestly, Rippetoe's suggestion that you squat 3 days a week was just absurd in my opinion.. Its already a known fact that hitting a muscle more then once a week can seriously harm recovery. TWICE a week is considered the absolute maximum... and he says THREE times a week!! Sorry, my body simply cannot take that... I had intense soreness in my legs and could not even walk..

So I changed the rule for the Squat to --> when my muscles have recovered, I will squat again.. not before then.

Does this seem a bad rule?

* In every workout, do more weight then you did before, more reps, more sets, etc... THIS IS WHAT A PLATEAU IS BRO!! NOT BEING ABLE TO ADD MORE REPS OR SETS OR WEIGHT!!!

Telling someone who has hit a major wall that he has to do more reps or weight is ignoring the actual problem!!!

Im so f*******king frustrated with this forum...

[KyleAaron]

Farley, he obviously did not buy and read SS, he just saw "bench 3x5, squat 3x5, deadlift 1x5" or something listed somewhere, and for a few months went to the gym doing that plus some curls, felt awkward on the deadlifts and cut them out, said what about my bicepts peakz?! and added curls, tried some chins and swung his way up there, got nasty DOMS and didn't work out for a week, etc etc. And now he tells us that he cut out some squats, too. An inconsistent muddled effort.

Funny how when guys cut things out, they never cut out bench and curls

But because he's naturally biggish, he got stronger anyway. All this has been done by zillions of blokes for ages.

That's why I suggest a more consistent approach. SS is excellent, but he's already shown he's not going to buy and read it. He won't even read a whole post on the forums here.

Its already a known fact that hitting a muscle more then once a week can seriously harm recovery.

Broscience. Not true at all.

Recovery is about age, general health, fitness, nutrition and rest. If you are older your recovery is slower. If you have poor health, slower. If you have poor cardiovascular fitness, slower. If you eat badly, slower. If you sleep badly or not enough, slower. Of course I said most of that already, you quoted but did not read it.

You say you've difficulty in recovering from squats 3/week. It's not your age, I'm a year older than you and I squat 6 days a week. So it must be your general health, your fitness, or your nutrition and rest.

THIS IS WHAT A PLATEAU IS BRO!! NOT BEING ABLE TO ADD MORE REPS OR SETS OR WEIGHT!!!

I'm not your bro.

I don't believe you reached an actual plateau. If you squatted 180lbs 3x5, was it physically impossible for you to squat 181lbs 1x1? Or 180lbs 6,5,5? Or 180lbs 5,5,5,1? Could you not get out even one more pound or rep? I've never seen it.

[strokercrate]

i tend to think that you are only giving half effort on the lifts you are doing. When you go heavier you feel its heavier and there comes a mental point that when that happens some are afraid to push that extra rep or weight worried it will fall on them or they will get stuck at the bottom of a squat. Get a spotter or use a power cage and go all out on your lifts. LISTEN to advise you are given instead of starting new threads to get the same advise. there is a reason why they are telling you it. because it works. and if not something is lacking on your end. diet? sleep? not giving 100% effort? and as said. you havent been doing a true SS program there is a reason it is set up the way that it is. it is tried and tested.

[ConanDestroyer]

Dude, I'm looking at your post and I see nothing, absolutely nothing, that suggests you even halfway attempted to do SS. You are listing all kinds of excercises and their progress when they arent even in the program.

What did you do, exactly?


Is this a joke?

I did SS for 6 months... this new program Ive created is just some random attempt to confuse or shock my muscles into growing, trying to do enough variety to stimulate growth. It isnt working of course.

Yes, i did SS..

want me to post some of my old logs?

Maybe my bench press form does suck, that is a possibility, you may be right about that one. I always feel im using too much tricep in my bench..

[strokercrate]

Okay, well honestly, Rippetoe's suggestion that you squat 3 days a week was just absurd in my opinion.. Its already a known fact that hitting a muscle more then once a week can seriously harm recovery. TWICE a week is considered the absolute maximum... and he says THREE times a week!! Sorry, my body simply cannot take that... I had intense soreness in my legs and could not even walk..

that all depends on if you are trained or a newbie. as well as volume and SS is low volume. now if you did say back squats 3x5 lunges 3x8 and stiff leg deadlifts 3x8 then yes your volume would be to high to do what SS states as 3 times a week

[ConanDestroyer]

By the way, the doctor ordered me to stop doing deadlifts, as I have degenerative discs in my back... its too risky for me...

I am trying to learn Rack Pulls as a way of compensating for this..

[Farley1324]

I did SS for 6 months... ,

No, you did not. Please stop saying you did. Your 180 pound squat after 6 months of SS is an embarassment.

Okay, well honestly, Rippetoe's suggestion that you squat 3 days a week was just absurd in my opinion.. Its already a known fact that hitting a muscle more then once a week can seriously harm recovery. TWICE a week is considered the absolute maximum... and he says THREE times a week!! Sorry, my body simply cannot take that... I had intense soreness in my legs and could not even walk..

So I changed the rule for the Squat to --> when my muscles have recovered, I will squat again.. not before then.

I suggest you actually do the program as written. If you MUST, the ONLY change I would make is to take out deads and replace with pullups or maybe chinups. two sets That shouldn't hurt things too much. That is it. Otherwise do exaclty what it says, not the abomination you created. And eat/sleep plenty. You'll squat way more than 180, I promise.

[ConanDestroyer]

that all depends on if you are trained or a newbie. as well as volume and SS is low volume. now if you did say back squats 3x5 lunges 3x8 and stiff leg deadlifts 3x8 then yes your volume would be to high to do what SS states as 3 times a week

If you're increasing your squat 10 lbs almost every single workout as Rippetoe suggests, your Squat is gonna be extremely intense over the period of a week.. 3 sets is more then enough for a week of recovery..

Rippetoe is just really a crazy insane Texan ...

[ConanDestroyer]

No, you did not. Please stop saying you did. Your 180 pound squat after 6 months of SS is an embarassment.

Its not an embarassment!!! I started out only being able to do 80 lbs... that means I added 100 lbs of strength in 6 months. That isnt an embarassment!!!!!

[KyleAaron]

I feel sure Conan could have managed better than a 180lb squat. Use your real first name, not his.

I cannot imagine what back condition would mean that you can squat but not deadlift. Normally both are contraindicated by disc troubles. You should talk to your doctor again, or perhaps see a sports physiotherapist. You are either risking your health by your exercises, or you are wussing out. Both are bad.

[Farley1324]

Its not an embarassment!!! I started out only being able to do 80 lbs... that means I added 100 lbs of strength in 6 months. That isnt an embarassment!!!!!

Good then. That's good progress. It really is.

But imagine how much you could be squatting by now if you followed the program. You can't be a pussy. You can't avoid squats because you are sore. If you wait for DOMS to go away before lifting again your body will never adjust. Greater frequence almost always = less DOMS, assuming proper diet and rest.

I know. I limped for two days after my first SS workout back in Jan. But I progressed as plannd by the program for a long time. For 8 weeks I did not miss a single workout and I added either 5 or 10 pounds to the squat every single time and I made every single rep.

[strokercrate]

If you're increasing your squat 10 lbs almost every single workout as Rippetoe suggests, your Squat is gonna be extremely intense over the period of a week.. 3 sets is more then enough for a week of recovery..

Rippetoe is just really a crazy insane Texan ...

3 times a week would equal 9 total working sets or "volume" per week 3 exercises in one workout for one muscle group " which is the split training" would total most people 9 to 12 working sets per week. So whats the deference"? There isnt any expect the fact your body every 48 hours finishes protein synthesis and so after a day off your legs have grown as much as they are gonna and are ready to go again. now at the end of the week the cns needs a break but not your legs

[Farley1324]

I feel sure Conan could have managed better than a 180lb squat. Use your real first name, not his.

I cannot imagine what back condition would mean that you can squat but not deadlift. Normally both are contraindicated by disc troubles. You should talk to your doctor again, or perhaps see a sports physiotherapist. You are either risking your health by your exercises, or you are wussing out. Both are bad.

Interesting point. I have a herniated L5-S1. I've always had a bad back and I am almost positive I first herniated it last November over Thanksgiving and it had absolutely nothing to do with lifting weights, sports, etc. Anyway....I had it kinda sorta better when I started lifting again in Jan, but then in April the day after deadlifting 315x6 I could barely move. Got an MRI...herniated disc. I've worked back from it since then and am now able to squat heavy (320x5 last week belted, 275 5x5 last week no belt), and even power clean kinda heavy (170 5x3 last week) BUT as soon as I try to deadlift anything appreciable (like, uh, 200+) my back tells me it doesn't like it.

I can't explain it, but I'm squatting heavy and not deadlifting. I don't want to wake up barely able to move and walking with a limp because I deadlifted heavy the day before....again.

You are right, both are contraindicated, and that is exactly what the sports medicine doc at the place I go to says...but he is a bodybuilder and understands that I'm goign to squat god damnit!!

[ConanDestroyer]

Farley, he obviously did not buy and read SS, he just saw "bench 3x5, squat 3x5, deadlift 1x5" or something listed somewhere, and for a few months went to the gym doing that plus some curls, felt awkward on the deadlifts and cut them out, said what about my bicepts peakz?! and added curls, tried some chins and swung his way up there, got nasty DOMS and didn't work out for a week, etc etc. And now he tells us that he cut out some squats, too. An inconsistent muddled effort.

Funny how when guys cut things out, they never cut out bench and curls

But because he's naturally biggish, he got stronger anyway. All this has been done by zillions of blokes for ages.

That's why I suggest a more consistent approach. SS is excellent, but he's already shown he's not going to buy and read it. He won't even read a whole post on the forums here.

Broscience. Not true at all.

Recovery is about age, general health, fitness, nutrition and rest. If you are older your recovery is slower. If you have poor health, slower. If you have poor cardiovascular fitness, slower. If you eat badly, slower. If you sleep badly or not enough, slower. Of course I said most of that already, you quoted but did not read it.

You say you've difficulty in recovering from squats 3/week. It's not your age, I'm a year older than you and I squat 6 days a week. So it must be your general health, your fitness, or your nutrition and rest.


I'm not your bro.

I don't believe you reached an actual plateau. If you squatted 180lbs 3x5, was it physically impossible for you to squat 181lbs 1x1? Or 180lbs 6,5,5? Or 180lbs 5,5,5,1? Could you not get out even one more pound or rep? I've never seen it.

I own a copy of Starting Strength, which Ive read from cover to cover. I ordered the book on amazon.com.

I didn't "feel akward on the deadlifts". As I explained, I had doctors orders to stop doing this exercise, I was diagnosed with degenerative discs. I'm very tall, and not naturally a good deadlifter for my body frame. Rippetoe agrees that tall people with certain torso proportions will be naturally poor deadlifters.I am looking into rack pulls maybe as a substitute. But I did notice that Deadlifts are only 1 set out of the whole program, so you should still be able to make good progress without them, as I did. Obviously, with the deadlift, you would get the maximum progress of the program.

I could not squat 3 times a week, I could not recover in time, and I ate like a horse. If my legs are extremely sore, and I can barely walk, should I be doing another set of squats in the gym? Work with me here, not against me...

I cant really squat 181 lbs, there isnt a 1 lb weight in the gym...

PLEASE, if you look at my results, you will see that there are times when I wasnt able to do any extra rep or set. Thats what a plateau is.. If you saw me in the gym screaming and getting pysched up and putting 1000% effort into these lifts, and not being able to get the rep out, and shouting curse words so that everyone in the gym stares at me, you'd realize how dedicated I am..

You're not my bro? i dont know you, but no reason for you to be unfriendly, we are all friends here..

[strokercrate]

do you warm up correctly? its odd that you would not be able to do any leg work 3 times a week

[Farley1324]

I own a copy of Starting Strength, which Ive read from cover to cover. I ordered the book on amazon.com.

I didn't "feel akward on the deadlifts". As I explained, I had doctors orders to stop doing this exercise, I was diagnosed with degenerative discs. I'm very tall, and not naturally a good deadlifter for my body frame. Rippetoe agrees that tall people with certain torso proportions will be naturally poor deadlifters.I am looking into rack pulls maybe as a substitute. But I did notice that Deadlifts are only 1 set out of the whole program, so you should still be able to make good progress without them, as I did. Obviously, with the deadlift, you would get the maximum progress of the program.

I could not squat 3 times a week, I could not recover in time, and I ate like a horse. If my legs are extremely sore, and I can barely walk, should I be doing another set of squats in the gym? Work with me here, not against me...

I cant really squat 181 lbs, there isnt a 1 lb weight in the gym...

PLEASE, if you look at my results, you will see that there are times when I wasnt able to do any extra rep or set. Thats what a plateau is.. If you saw me in the gym screaming and getting pysched up and putting 1000% effort into these lifts, and not being able to get the rep out, and shouting curse words so that everyone in the gym stares at me, you'd realize how dedicated I am..

You're not my bro? i dont know you, but no reason for you to be unfriendly, we are all friends here..

What doctor ordered you to stop doing deadlifts, and why? Are you also not allowed to pick up heavy stuff off the ground throughout the day? My doc (GP, not the sports medicine guy) told me not to lift weights. At all. He said I looked good and didnt need to, and asked why I would want to get bigger and stronger. Then he said that if I squat, don't use a lot of weight and don't go down all the way. So, uh, yeah...doctor's sometiems don't know jack shit about this kind of stuff.

Sure, Ripp might say tall guys with certain proportions will be relatively weak at the deadlift, or have a hard time with it. He sure as hell doesn't say that's an excuse to NOT DO THEM!!

Yes, you can squat three times a week. Eat alot, drink a lot, sleep a lot, and just do it. Your body WILL adjust if you give it the chance. Give it two weeks of doing everything right, and don't start too heavy. If you start SS for realz now don't start at 180. Hell, start at 135 and add 10 pounds a session for the first week then 5 lbs after that...or similar.

You can say this all you want, but we are going to doubt your dedication when you have excuses like being tall for not deadlifting and tell us you can't squat three times a week because you are sore.


Cliffs: Do it as written, start light, eat a ton, drink a ton, sleep even more, the soreness will get better.

[KyleAaron]

I would be interested to see your deadlift technique, Farley. It's not unusual for even the most form-perfect lifter to roundback once they reach 90+% 1RM, much more common than for the same person doing heavy squats.

And I would certainly expect that lumbar flexion would cause pain on an L5-S1 herniation.

Again, not saying your technique in general would be bad, at your level I'm sure you do it quite well, just that it's natural for anyone's form to get rough as they go 90+% 1RM. And in deadlift in particular, and also on the way down more than the way up. Take those 800+lb deadlifters, textbook it ain't.

Again, everyone should follow the advice of medical specialists. It's just as Farley and I have both said, it'd be unusual for a medico to say you can squat but not deadlift because of lumbar issues - either both are banned or neither.

Farley, I suggest we don't offer ConanTheExcuser any more advice until he actually reads the advice we've already given him.

[ConanDestroyer]

do you warm up correctly? its odd that you would not be able to do any leg work 3 times a week

Well what these guys are basically suggesting is that I ignore what my body is telling me, and just do lower body workouts with quads that are shot to hell and cant move..

The advice is to work through the pain..

There are good kinds of pain and bad kinds of pain.. maybe they are right, my body could adapt.. or maybe they are wrong, it would lead to injury.

I'm really not sure..

Maybe Im squatting too deep.. I usually go down till im 90 degrees with the floor..

[Farley1324]

I would be interested to see your deadlift technique, Farley. It's not unusual for even the most form-perfect lifter to roundback once they reach 90+% 1RM, much more common than for the same person doing heavy squats.

And I would certainly expect that lumbar flexion would cause pain on an L5-S1 herniation.

Again, not saying your technique in general would be bad, at your level I'm sure you do it quite well, just that it's natural for anyone's form to get rough as they go 90+% 1RM. And in deadlift in particular, and also on the way down more than the way up. Take those 800+lb deadlifters, textbook it ain't.

Again, everyone should follow the advice of medical specialists. It's just as Farley and I have both said, it'd be unusual for a medico to say you can squat but not deadlift because of lumbar issues - either both are banned or neither.

You know what? I'd like to see my 90%+ deadlift technique too. I didn't get any deadlift videos this year and at this point I am unwilling to pull even moderately heavy. If I had a coach, trainer, etc who was knowledgeable and whom I trusted to watch me ont he spot as I worked up the weight then I would consider it, but I don't have that luxury.

Deadlift used to be my favorite excercise too. I still get the urge to do it, I love picking up heavy ****. I loved heavy deads from the very beginning. Unlike squats....now they are definately an aquired taste.

You have very solid points, thank you for providing them. Unfortuately I have tons of squat videos, some bench, some press, even cleans...but didnt get any deads.

You may very well be right on the position I put my back in, too.

[Farley1324]

I own a copy of Starting Strength, which Ive read from cover to cover.

Maybe Im squatting too deep.. I usually go down till im 90 degrees with the floor..

Does not compute

[ConanDestroyer]

Farley, I suggest we don't offer ConanTheExcuser any more advice until he actually reads the advice we've already given him.

You guys are like:

1. Yeah, screw your doctor's suggestions.
2. You didnt read the book
3. Im not your bro
4. You cant call yourself Conan
5. Lift when you are sore
6. You dont read our advice.

I read and responded to EVERY SINGLE POINT YOU MADE in your last post.

I could get better advice from anywhere else.

SCREW THIS.

[Farley1324]

I read and responded to EVERY SINGLE POINT YOU MADE in your last post.

You guys are like:

1. Yeah, screw your doctor's suggestions.
2. You didnt read the book
3. Im not your bro
4. You cant call yourself Conan
5. Lift when you are sore

I could get better advice from anywhere else.

SCREW THIS.

That's the only point on there I actually stated. And it is true.

[strokercrate]

here is the sad thing. every trick in the book that is out there in this thread and the other one was thrown at you. you have either sad you have tried it or cant try it. and nothing has worked so 1 of 2 things is taking place. 1 you have reached your genetic limit or two you have not fully tried the advise or research you have done. Either way it seems your stuck. although i lean toward it being the latter and if you applied one or more of the tips you would progress again.