Shadar's Informative Links - Share yours as well! *Updated 03-13-11*

[Laura2robertson]

You have a good information

[kingjameskjf]

Honestly it's nothing to worry about.

Wrong.

Here's an excerpt from Peter Van Mol (Big Cat) regarding the issue:

The deal with calcium is that is has the same transport mechanism as zinc and copper. This mechanism is limited and when more than one of these substances is absorbed one is prioritized over the other. With calcium being the third most important mineral in the body its given high priority over zinc and copper, and likewise zinc is prioritized over copper.

Even if you take high doses of zinc over your calcium, you'd need to get 30 mg more zinc than calcium to get the 30 mg absorption. Now the question is, how effective is the transport mechanism. If you take 50 mg of Ca and 80 mg of Zn (I don't recommend anyone take more than 50 mg at any time however) and the transport can only handle 50 mg, then it will take mostly calcium and there is no way you'll get anywhere near 30 mg in.

The proper way to do it, is to take it on an empty stomach with no calcium present. An empty stomach because that assures no digestive interference and a maximum transport capability since none of these minerals recently passed through. Also its advised to take it before bed because that is when Zn is most effective at improving sleep and boosting LH output. Now a lot of people want to prevent catabolism by having a slow digesting protein shake before bed, because cortisol increases overnight and peaks in the morning. Of course shakes have calcium. The best way to resolve that is to take the ZMA on an empty stomach (60 minutes or longer after last meal depending on what you ate), but 30 minutes BEFORE you take your shake right before bed. That gives the zinc plenty of time to be absorbed before the calcium hits the stomach without having to lose too much time.

The other way around ruins the effect. Taking the slow-digesting shake first you need to wait up to 2 hours before taking ZMA which knocks nearly 160 minutes off the efficacy of your shake.



Now here's the scientific data that backs that up:

The potential zinc biosorptive capacity of the biomass was markedly influenced by the presence of ionic calcium. Zinc sorption decreased with increasing calcium concentrations, as expressed by zinc uptake rates. Calcium was effectively recovered only during the initial stages of the process, as expressed by the decrease in its uptake rates. Calcium uptake rates were also much higher than zinc uptake rates, indicating that calcium was preferentially recovered when compared to zinc.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12056492

[cjwav34]

^^^^
Way over thinking it.

It's pretty common knowledge that they compete for the same transports. Just because they compete for the same transports, doesn't mean you should worry about it.

All of what you posted is in reguards to ZMA, which in its self is a waste of money.

[kingjameskjf]

^^^^
Way over thinking it.

It's pretty common knowledge that they compete for the same transports. Just because they compete for the same transports, doesn't mean you should worry about it.

All of what you posted is in reguards to ZMA, which in its self is a waste of money.

lol, way over thinking it? I posted a scientific study on it! Try being objective and understand instead of refusing to learn something because it doesn't conform to your personal belief.

[cjwav34]

lol, way over thinking it? I posted a scientific study on it! Try being objective and understand instead of refusing to learn something because it doesn't conform to your personal belief.

What? Nothing you posted was something I didn't already know. Like I said, it's pretty basic knowledge. So you're telling me I shouldn't eat beef at the same time as I drink milk? Come on man.

[Mr.Cooper69]

What? Nothing you posted was something I didn't already know. Like I said, it's pretty basic knowledge. So you're telling me I shouldn't eat beef at the same time as I drink milk? Come on man.

Honestly, if you have a balanced diet, the calcium isn't an issue. A copper deficiency on the other hand...

[rhizome]

Wrong.

Here's an excerpt from Peter Van Mol (Big Cat) regarding the issue:

The deal with calcium is that is has the same transport mechanism as zinc and copper. This mechanism is limited and when more than one of these substances is absorbed one is prioritized over the other. With calcium being the third most important mineral in the body its given high priority over zinc and copper, and likewise zinc is prioritized over copper.

Even if you take high doses of zinc over your calcium, you'd need to get 30 mg more zinc than calcium to get the 30 mg absorption. Now the question is, how effective is the transport mechanism. If you take 50 mg of Ca and 80 mg of Zn (I don't recommend anyone take more than 50 mg at any time however) and the transport can only handle 50 mg, then it will take mostly calcium and there is no way you'll get anywhere near 30 mg in.

The proper way to do it, is to take it on an empty stomach with no calcium present. An empty stomach because that assures no digestive interference and a maximum transport capability since none of these minerals recently passed through. Also its advised to take it before bed because that is when Zn is most effective at improving sleep and boosting LH output. Now a lot of people want to prevent catabolism by having a slow digesting protein shake before bed, because cortisol increases overnight and peaks in the morning. Of course shakes have calcium. The best way to resolve that is to take the ZMA on an empty stomach (60 minutes or longer after last meal depending on what you ate), but 30 minutes BEFORE you take your shake right before bed. That gives the zinc plenty of time to be absorbed before the calcium hits the stomach without having to lose too much time.

The other way around ruins the effect. Taking the slow-digesting shake first you need to wait up to 2 hours before taking ZMA which knocks nearly 160 minutes off the efficacy of your shake.



Now here's the scientific data that backs that up:

The potential zinc biosorptive capacity of the biomass was markedly influenced by the presence of ionic calcium. Zinc sorption decreased with increasing calcium concentrations, as expressed by zinc uptake rates. Calcium was effectively recovered only during the initial stages of the process, as expressed by the decrease in its uptake rates. Calcium uptake rates were also much higher than zinc uptake rates, indicating that calcium was preferentially recovered when compared to zinc.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12056492

This has got the be the worst post I've seen in a while. Zn, Ca and Cu DO NOT share the same absorption pathways. Ca is absorbed via TRPV6/CaT1 transporters and paracellularly and leaves enterocytes via a Ca+ATPase. Zn is absorbed via ZIP4 and ZNT5 transporters and leaves enterocytes via ZNT1 transporters. Cu is absorbed via Ctr1 and DMT-1 transporters and leaves enterocytes via a copper transporting ATPase.

And the study you cite "Calcium interference with continuous biosorption of zinc by Sargassum sp. (Phaeophyceae) in tubular laboratory reactors." LOL WUT? Are you fukking kiddin me? It is COMPLETELY irrelevant. The pubmed ninja is strong. Please, for the love of God, explain how a study on algae is a model for the human enterocyte. Good fukking luck.

The people in this forum are fukking retards.

[kingjameskjf]

What? Nothing you posted was something I didn't already know. Like I said, it's pretty basic knowledge. So you're telling me I shouldn't eat beef at the same time as I drink milk? Come on man.

Obviously you have troubles comprehending then. Try again.

This has got the be the worst post I've seen in a while. Zn, Ca and Cu DO NOT share the same absorption pathways. Ca is absorbed via TRPV6/CaT1 transporters and paracellularly and leaves enterocytes via a Ca+ATPase. Zn is absorbed via ZIP4 and ZNT5 transporters and leaves enterocytes via ZNT1 transporters. Cu is absorbed via Ctr1 and DMT-1 transporters and leaves enterocytes via a copper transporting ATPase.

And the study you cite "Calcium interference with continuous biosorption of zinc by Sargassum sp. (Phaeophyceae) in tubular laboratory reactors." LOL WUT? Are you fukking kiddin me? It is COMPLETELY irrelevant. The pubmed ninja is strong. Please, for the love of God, explain how a study on algae is a model for the human enterocyte. Good fukking luck.

The people in this forum are fukking retards.

lol, let me know when you're done babbling. Since you're so brilliant how about you ask this site to put your articles up instead, here's the one I already referenced as a general idea, not a peer reviewed article. When you're done, you can go back to the pub med articles and learn a thing or two. kthxbai

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/cattest.htm

[cjwav34]

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/cattest.htm

Hahahahahahhaha.

edit: If you want to talk about thinking on your own, try not quoting some terrible and outdated article.

[Synapsin]

Trisomy 21 appears to be rampant on this forum. An article posted on bb.com is not considered to be factual, especially when it has zero citations and is written by a moron who talks about of his ass.

[rhizome]

Obviously you have troubles comprehending then. Try again.



lol, let me know when you're done babbling. Since you're so brilliant how about you ask this site to put your articles up instead, here's the one I already referenced as a general idea, not a peer reviewed article. When you're done, you can go back to the pub med articles and learn a thing or two. kthxbai

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/cattest.htm

I genuinely feel sorry for your overwhelming ignorance.

[PinchTheBear]

[kingjameskjf]

Trisomy 21 appears to be rampant on this forum. An article posted on bb.com is not considered to be factual, especially when it has zero citations and is written by a moron who talks about of his ass.

Try reading the posts again, this time with your glasses on. I linked the article just to make it simple for people like you to grasp, not as a scientific article, which is why I also liked an actual study at the end!

[Valenzuelatech]

Lets keep this discussion civil gentlemen.

[cjwav34]

Try reading the posts again, this time with your glasses on. I linked the article just to make it simple for people like you to grasp, not as a scientific article, which is why I also liked an actual study at the end!

You realize you're getting into an arguement with 3 of the smartest people on this board? (I'm definitely not one of them)

[Synapsin]

Try reading the posts again, this time with your glasses on. I linked the article just to make it simple for people like you to grasp, not as a scientific article, which is why I also liked an actual study at the end!

lulz, you mad? Nice stretch neg, it's pretty sad how upset you're getting when you're the one making a moron out of yourself. BTW, did you hear? Creatine causes kidney problems, ZMA boosts your test, the world is flat, the universe revolves around Earth, etc, all brought to you by:

Lets keep this discussion civil gentlemen.

Indeed, not going to bother to replying to him after this post.

[Illadelphia]

You realize you're getting into an arguement with 3 of the smartest people on this board? (I'm definitely not one of them)

This.

[Mr.Cooper69]

lulz, you mad? Nice stretch neg, it's pretty sad how upset you're getting when you're the one making a moron out of yourself. BTW, did you hear? Creatine causes kidney problems, ZMA boosts your test, the world is flat, the universe revolves around Earth, etc, all brought to you by:





Indeed, not going to bother to replying to him after this post.

Synapsin, why can't we see this side of you more often?

[PhillyMatthew]

Great Work! I'll be saving this list for future reading. Thanks.

[Addohm]

What about N.O.? I'd certainly like to know more about that.

[solidblogger]

These links you have posted are really helpful

[32gOfNattyPB]

I ****ing love bodybuilding.com! No other forum, and I truly mean no other forum, could top the lolz that I get out of bb.com.


Tip of my hat to you guys...please keep this going!

[tylerkkk]

Awesome thread! Good idea, glad to see they made it a sticky!

[Brawndo89]

ohai guys

[Ahal84]

Whats everyones stance on CLA?

[snagency]

Try reading the posts again, this time with your glasses on. I linked the article just to make it simple for people like you to grasp, not as a scientific article, which is why I also liked an actual study at the end!

lulz, you mad? Nice stretch neg, it's pretty sad how upset you're getting when you're the one making a moron out of yourself. BTW, did you hear? Creatine causes kidney problems, ZMA boosts your test, the world is flat, the universe revolves around Earth, etc, all brought to you by:

what am i missing here?
i thought you guys were on the same team.
can't we all just get along?

[cjwav34]

Whats everyones stance on CLA?

Waste of money.

what am i missing here?
i thought you guys were on the same team.
can't we all just get along?

That little scuffle was before one of them became a rep

[snagency]

That little scuffle was before one of them became a rep

i'm a lil date challenged i guess..didn't see the when these were posted.

oooops.

[itzDodge]

Whats everyones stance on CLA?

Not worthwhile

[noetherstheorem]

Thx for the great info